Top agents hit with discrimination lawsuit

1) Why wouldn’t landlords jump on a section 8 tenant opportunity? Genuine question, I just don’t get it. Voucher from the gov’t sounds pretty solid. How is a section 8 apartment different from a market rate apartment?
2) I had brokers not answer my emails, too. The person could be busy, on vacation or just be bad at their job, which sucks, but is not a crime.

oy.

The problem is, clients at the low end of the housing market deserve broker representation too, but -- simply because it's low-end -- there isn't much inventory there. A one-bedroom that's going to rent inexpensively is probably going to be a basement apartment, one that might or might not be legal. So then you have landlords who will fall all over themselves to avoid Section 8, because they don't want to expose themselves to the inspection process.

It used to be in the old days, Craigslist ads said "No Vouchers." Now, landlords simply put in standards that are impossible for lower-income clients to meet (e.g. first month's rent + one month security + one month brokerage fee on the landlord side, plus high credit plus payroll verification of 40x rent) and then pick and choose.

So brokers are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. We literally have continuing ed. that says, "treat the voucher clients the way you would treat everybody else." (And, to that point, any working broker misses emails and phone calls from clients looking at the higher end too.)

Still, the chances of spending weeks pounding the pavement to help a client look for a low-priced rental and coming up empty are pretty high. The last time I tried it, I had someone who wanted to live on Staten Island, where I don't work, and so I called... pretty much every broker on Staten Island, and no one wanted to touch that client. Client was a veteran, and I pulled out all the stops in terms of telling the story; I must have called fifty people. I still did not end up placing the client.

So it doesn't surprise me that luxury agents -- and there are some on that list that aren't even going to get very exercised about their rich clients -- are not managing to answer their emails.

Krolik, in answer to your question: I have a friend who is a small-time landlord who specifically loves Sec 8 clients. As you said, it's guaranteed income. But he's not in NY, he's in Pennsylvania, where housing dollars go a little bit further.

ali r. {upstairs realty}

Ali, Doesn’t a broker have a choice as who they take on as “client”. Client as in the person who they represent. Obviously, if they have a listing, they have to treat all “customers” (people interested in the listing) the same.

For example, a broker may not do any rental representation in the price range the renter is looking for. Just not worth their time. Are they forced to represent a section 8 voucher renter?

"voucher was good for $1,705 per month,"

What is the expectation of a renter, voucher or cash, at this amount?

What is the protocol regarding security deposits? Given a broker is involved, who pays the fee associated?

@300, during our Fair Housing training the REBNY counsel basically said, "I don't work at that price range" is not necessarily a legit answer.

The way Kadagian responded is basically the way we are encouraged to respond.

Outside NYC, I believe voucher clients are often sought after as they are able to pay but are not able to buy their own. As a result, they stay for a good amount of time, minimizing vacancy.

Outside NYC, I believe voucher clients are often sought after as they are able to pay but are not able to buy their own. As a result, they stay for a good amount of time, minimizing vacancy.

We have sold buildings in the Bronx to owners whose proforma is all about collecting Section 8. Most agents/brokers are totally ignorant as to what there responsibilities are. Like the one in this thread saying "Doesn’t a broker have a choice as who they take on as “client”."

Krolik,
A lot has to do with the bigotry of landlords. Ask some old line Crown Heights landlords if the rent to Canadians.

And BTW, if an owner says to an agent that they want to discriminate against any protected class, I believe the agent is supposed to decline working with them on anything. So, I believe if a landlord says that they refuse to consider Section 8 tenants on a case by case basis the agent is supposed to decline working with them, period.

Aren't NYC rental broker fees paid by the tenant? How is someone with a voucher going to pay the broker?

But, this was obviously a setup to call/email a bunch of snooty brokers who probably wouldn't touch a six figure sale listing to say find me a $1700 one bedroom in prime Manhattan.

The vouchers include payment of the broker's fee; that's not a problem.

An issue (though not the only one) is that this is a bunch of brokers who work markets that are more expensive. I'm not at the tier of any of these people, and I still got a broadcast email today from a broker seeking a $3K studio in Brooklyn or Manhattan. So these are not necessarily people who have lines to $1,700 one-bedrooms.

Exactly. A real estate agent can choose what min $ commission they work for. Nothing illegal about it.

>>But, this was obviously a setup to call/email a bunch of snooty brokers who probably wouldn't touch a six figure sale listing to say find me a $1700 one bedroom in prime Manhattan.

$1700 is just the voucher. Can the apartment be more than than with the tenant covering the difference?

Also, I did not see anywhere in the article any reference to Manhattan only. I am sure a $1700 one bedroom or studio can be found in Harlem or in another borough.

"Exactly. A real estate agent can choose what min $ commission they work for. Nothing illegal about it."

It's shocking an agent can comply with continuing education mandates and still spout nonsense like this.

The disconnect between this and the Rent Controls thread is mind blowing.

30yrs, I’d like to hire you to help me find me a needle in a haystack in an area where you don’t normally work. Can you turn me down, or not? Don’t forget I am a pregnant woman, part of a protected class. Thanks!

So are agents required to serve everyone? Must they answer all emails? Must they devote X% of their time to charity cases? Must any person with a license respond to such requests?

I ask seriously bc there are such rules for banks, which is why high-end banks have a random branch or two in the ghetto. But those are institutions. Realtors are self-employed individuals. It seems wrong to suggest that they can be compelled to perform services as if they were a public utility.

George, The issue for the court to consider is where the defending individual real estate agents or agents working for them were representing other clients with similar rent as the voucher amount of the person suing and simply said no to representing someone with vouchers (lawful source of income discrimination). Elliman as a firm is likely to have listing at the low end as well. In fact, their website has plenty of listings under $2000 per month rent.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/fairhousing/renters/lawful-source-of-income.page#:~:text=The%20Law,assistance%20including%20Section%208%20vouchers.

Krolik,
I would be happy to refer you to my colleague who specializes in that area. His Twitter handle is I_find_needles_in_haystacks

George,
I'm not making any value judgement as to whether I think it's morally right, etc but the current licensing, etc laws say yes to your questions and I'm kind of shocked that agents - who are legally required to take courses on this every 2 years - don't know thisdown cold.

And remember agents are privileged to hold State licenses.

https://x.com/aaronAcarr/status/1404890949344452612?t=ydVSHxAhulpiRj6JHbZJgA&s=09

I've never been a defender of agents, but if someone called me in my business asking for something I don't sell, I'd do the same as these agents. Seems more reasonable to sue when someone has an appropriate listing but refuses the §8 voucher. Otherwise I don't see a case to answer.

George, This particular lawsuit seems to be just harassment for some shakedown money.

Remember this:
https://nypost.com/2018/07/25/wheelchair-bound-man-who-sues-inaccessible-shops-can-walk/

You're right. I think these agents should just do nothing and see what happens.

How is this lawsuit going?