bought a coop but SE lists the address as condo

It could be two condos - one commercial and the other residential which consists of many apartments. Likely Residential Condo operates as a coop with each apartment owner a shareholder of the coop which owns the Residential condo unit. Why not post the building address?

The type of structure I am describing is tagged "Condoop" similar to this one.

https://streeteasy.com/building/georgetown-plaza

Address is 442 amsterdam ave

So I see it seems it's a condo. The point is the bylaws in the condo declaration have conflicts with the bylaws in the coop bylaws declaration. Also it seems the coop bylaws are not filed in rebny. Any idea what bylaws should be applicable?

All apartment sales have the same Block and Lot number. Clearly a coop and streeteasy tag must be wrong.

Btw, apartment listings show coop

Yes got it its condop.

What about the bylaws? The condo offering bylaws have different rules than the coop bylaws. Any thoughts about that?

But you don't have a condo. You have shares in a coop who owns a condo consisting of multiple residential units. So I would think coop bylaws apply to you.

The bylaws of the condo apply to the owners of the condo. In your case, one of the owners of the condo is a corporation organized as a residential co-op. You are a shareholder of that corporation. As a shareholder (and tenant) of the co-op, you as tenant are obligated to follow the bylaws of the co-op. You are shareholder should also be asking your co-op board if they are following the bylaws of the condo of which they are an owner.

Nacho - not trying to poke fun at you here, this is an interesting example.

It speaks to the complexity & information asymmetry in NYC RE that someone who has a 5 year posting history on SE could purchase property and then be trying to figure out its legal structure..

I'd hope the RE attorney would protect a buyer from this, but then again look at how they are compensated vs the brokers. Most typical residential deals the RE attorney gets about $3k, while buyer&seller brokers each get 2-3%, so say $25k per $1M of deal.

When we have an adversarial transaction model where one side is getting fees almost an order of magnitude greater than the other.. the outcome is unsurprising.

"You *as* shareholder should also be asking...''

Steve, Sometimes you don't want to understand it as you want your coop to become a condo despite listing clearly saying it is a coop and paying "maitenance" vs "CC" and "RE taxes directly to the City". It is nothing to do with complexity.

Here I think there seems to be confusion about bylaws which Aaron clarified.

As neither your lawyer nor your broker (though, hello, buyers, I'm available) I don't have the full set of documents.

However, the condo declaration is here: https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/DocumentDetail?doc_id=2009022600161001

The commercial unit is presumably the bar/restaurant (and a wonderful place it is) and the residential unit is presumably you guys. Aaron mentioned that one of the owners is a corporation -- my bet is that the co-op corporation is probably not only an owner, but it's probably the sole owner, of that residential unit.

Your attorney should have read you the condo rules. He or she still can! Without seeing the documents, and without playing lawyer, they probably address issues like which of the condos pays the building's water bill, and are probably not majorly relevant to your life.

Your co-op's rules, the rules under that condo umbrella, are probably the ones you'll have to deal with more on a day-to-day basis. I don't know what you mean by "co-op bylaws are not filed in REBNY" -- they're not public documents, and so I wouldn't expect them to be.

As a shareholder in your (very small) corporation -- casting a quick eye over the building it looks like there would be a dozen of you, at most -- you should also want to understand the financials of the corporation, and whether it generally gives revenue to the building, or gets revenue from the building, and that's something that I honestly think your broker should walk you through, and they can do that without playing lawyer and without playing accountant, both of which are above their pay grade.

BTW steve, thanks for the slam, of attorneys vs. brokers, but I don't think even if you 10xd the pay of real estate attorneys that they'd start reading and explaining financials to their clients. It's just not what they do.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

Attorney's are really paid for one time advice at purchase. The buyers need to learn how to read financials after they have purchased which in many cases just will not happen.

If i had a dollar for every time I asked a real estate question to my accountant with the response, "ask your attorney" and the same question to my attorney with the response, "ask your accountant," I'd be able to treat the active SE forum members group to a nice meal at Nobu

@Ali - Sorry if it came off that way, but I wouldn't take my comment as a slam on brokers.

It's more that people need to do their own due diligence, including always getting a lawyer (I know people who haven't) and actively engaging with them. Every industry has its bad actors, and you always come across as a good actor.

It's not so much that if we paid attorneys 10x they'd start reading everything.. But I would observe, for a fee of ~$3k, knowing what attorneys are able to bill hourly.. they are spending single digit hours per deal. How that gets split up between reading a 500 page offering plan, 1 year of board meeting minutes, reviewing budgets/financials/etc, looking up any government filings is beyond me..

A good buyers broker may give you advise on these things, but they generally aren't legally liable to do so. And where things aren't legally actionable, bad actors will play.

As a buyer, the bylaws were shared by the sellers agent. Noone explained me anything and it was always clear to me that I was buying a coop.

The question came since I cannot find the coop initial offering or bylaws in REBNY, only the condo declaration. I know even the management company is not clear about what bylaws are applicable

If no one in your coop has a copy of your coop's offering plan, you can get your Managing agent to get them from AG (REBNY has nothing to do with it). It will take time and money but you will get them. In addition, your attorney should have asked for Coop offering plan at the time of purchase.

There are some very good attorneys out there that make a pretty good living by volume, and do take the time to make sure their clients understand what they're buying/signing. It's also important as a buyer to make sure you're asking questions when you don't understand something. Sure the s***** attorneys will brush you off, but the good ones will patiently answer your questions.

I bet there's a good chance that restaurant space (condo) is owned by the original sponsor.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

Condop is like a cyclop with two eyes

A Condop doesn't mean Coop with Condo rules. The term for a Coop with Condo rules is "Coop with Condo Rules." Condop solely describes a structure where a building is divided into condominiums and then one of the condo units is turned into a residential housing corporation.

Rinette,
What do you call a deer with no eyes?

https://medium.com/answer-beach/what-do-you-call-a-deer-with-no-eyes-joke-explained-98a95e5734fa