Family-friendly areas in nearby BK or Queens

Brooklyn can be as expensive if not more expensive than Manhattan. Although carrying charges and taxes are lower. I think some of what you're looking for can be found around Prospect Park as well as Fort Greene Park.

Here's something that we sold not too long ago, what are your thoughts versus something similar in Manhattan? This was also a pretty peaky price for the building.

https://streeteasy.com/building/turner-towers/9g

Amazing location, great apartment with lots of space, closet, convenient layout. But don't think I would pay 15k+ to live in Brooklyn.... At that price point I would think there is lots of good stuff in Manhattan.

That's the thing, people that want to live in Brooklyn don't want to live in Manhattan. You're not moving to Brooklyn to get a better deal these days...

Sunnyside Gardens

Oddly dismissive of a $3M 4bed/3bath next to transit/park/museums/farmers market/etc.

Obviously you can get something in Manhattan for $3M, but it's going to be smaller/fewer beds/fewer baths/worse relative location/etc. And the monthlies on the Brooklyn unit will be lower most likely.

That's the value proposition of upmarket Brooklyn.
It's not "more for less" but "more for same".

Using <$3M 4bed/3bath as my search params in UWS, theres all of 11 units in the whole hood.

The nicest unit would be https://streeteasy.com/building/241-west-107-street-new_york/penthouse
But the location is not great and not really UWS.. it's Manhattan Valley. Having lived around the corner from it for a few years it has a distinctly different vibe than UWS proper.

Slightly better location but still not truly UWS, but low floor bad light and in need of a big renovation - https://streeteasy.com/building/845-west-end-avenue-new_york/2a

Better location but the vibes of living with the ghosts of some 19th century aristocrats until you get reno - https://streeteasy.com/building/250-west-82nd-street-new_york/21?featured=1

SE clipped a longer post I had with links to sub-$3M 4bed/3bath UWS units that all kind of sucked, but I don't have the energy to retype it out lol

When I moved to Brooklyn in about 1995, it was a real game changer for me personally. After working mostly in Manhattan most of the day, it was a real breath of fresh air to either bike over the Brooklyn bridge, which was how I mostly got home, or pop out of the c train into beautiful brownstone Brooklyn. It just put a nice separation between my two worlds. Also, since I've always had a car when I lived in the city, it was easy to pop over to different neighborhoods to go to the movies or have dinner etc.

It certainly also depends on what neighborhoods you're comparing, although there are probably similarly priced homes in the West village of lower quality. There are also let's say more apples to apples comparisons in the West village, that are significantly more, like if you take a look at two Horatio Street.

>>> Oddly dismissive of a $3M 4bed/3bath next to transit/park/museums/farmers market/etc.

Not at all. Fantastic apartment. I just might assign a greater weight to the commute + it is out of my budget so at that point it kind of does not matter how nice it is… i was hoping to find some relatively less discovered areas.

>>>SE clipped a longer post I had with links to sub-$3M 4bed/3bath UWS units that all kind of sucked, but I don't have the energy to retype it out lol

Just want to add that I don’t necessarily think those are a good buy either…

NYC is a well known city and the RE market while often irrational is generally efficient.
You will always be trading off dollars vs space vs commute vs schools vs parks vs neighborhood feel vs building amenities.

Due to zoning / transit, the state of play is very static. We aren't building new transit or drastically changing zoning which would unlock new hidden gems. A dynamic environment would lead to new information that would for brief periods of time provide these hidden gems.

If you are walking to midtown work from UES then nothing is going to meet your criteria if you "assign a greater weight to the commute". Living in E 70s-90s would put most of my recent office locations in a 20-25 minute commute range by foot or rail.

My N BK commute or the building Keith posted are 40 minutes. My old UWS apartments commute would be... 30-35 minutes.

My wife & I have each had 7-8 difference office locations in 20 years in NYC, partially due to changing jobs and partially due to companies changing locations. So on average one of us has a different commute every 16 months. So I'm not making a 10+ year time horizon purchase based on perfecting my commute +/-10 minutes. The best commute is not going into an office at all.

Lifestyle stuff that might have more dramatic impact are things like frequent trips out of city because you have aging parents in the northern suburbs / a house on LI / in-laws in South Jersey / like to get away to the Hudson River Valley / frequently camp in the Poconos / etc.

I've also always really liked Midwood and Ditmas Park, Even after Michelle Williams purchased a large Victorian home in Midwood, these neighborhoods still remained relatively under the radar for 'mainstream New Yorkers'. That said, we've sold a handful of apartments and a couple of homes in Midwood. If you haven't been there, it's worth a day trip to walk around the treelined streets with large Victorian homes, driveways and giant porches just off of flatbush avenue! Also a pretty good mix of pre-war buildings along with some post-war doorman buildings like 1818 newkirk avenue. Cortelyou Road is the sort of main Street of of the neighborhoods.

https://streeteasy.com/for-sale/ditmas-park

In my opinion Prospect Park South, Ditmas, Midwood have gone from "Solid value" to "Relatively overpriced.*

I used to live in Midwood! Did not love the neighborhood, but it was convenient for the price.

@steve123
I guess my question is more about solid value neighborhoods… the one 30 posted i think fits the bill, but majority of inventory I see is one bedrooms.

1) It is true that NYC RE is fairly static, but i don’t really know other boroughs too well. So old news is new to me. Because everyone passes thru Manhattan, people frequently share opinions on Manhattan neighborhoods, but the same is not true of queens and BK.

2) I live 15 mins walking distance from the current job in Midtown (as well as my prior two jobs) which is incredibly convenient. Considering I am at the office 5 days per week, and paying for childcare > $20 per hour, that longer commute does add up to $$$.

3) Speaking of other lifestyle considerations, the job is not the only thing to visit in Midtown/Central Manhattan and i also value proximity to a major airport (which is where i think Westchester is less advantageous than NYC boroughs).

4) I think BK and Queens might have more kids extracurriculars

5) not included elsewhere in the calc, but other costs, from daycare to nannies to groceries, are lower in the boroughs.

6) I suspect that prices in Queens and BK are less irrational than Manhattan because trust fund and international buyers are usually not looking there.

The block I grew up on was small bungalows on slabs built late 1950s. My parents bought in ?1958? For about $15k. There's a handful of those left. The majority torn down, "illegal" 2 families built, the majority sold to foreign born Asians for 7 figures with family money.

Sorry, illegal 3 families built

Yes, plenty of immigrants, less wealthy ones, made the practical choice to buy in the boroughs.

Any thoughts on Jackson heights historic district??

I visited a friend who bought out there in like the 80s and it was a very cool setup. They had 2x the space of my N BK condo at probably half the cost now, let alone the 80s. He was more on the edge of the district so a good 10 minute walk to the subway though.

It wasn't the right spot for 20-something me, but 40-something me could see it.

I get the impression this area is a totally different market. Streeteasy has a page for my friends building but it doesn't even know the number of units and has 0 listings history. I assume everything still happens offline..

What about Corona? I am intrigued by its location next to a park.

I actually lived in Jackson Heights historic district with two apartment purchases. My first apartment’s price has been more than doubled after living in it for about 8 years during which the price in Manhattan was flat. When I was buying my first apartment, the total payment from owing in each month was actually lower than the rent and the cap rate was above 4% against the mortgage rate of 3.25%.

Due to the leverage, the profit on this apartment is higher than SP500, LOL.

I don’t have the expectation that the price of my second apartment purchased around 2021 will increase nominally , due to the already high price to begin with.

I was buying the second apartment for the purpose of living in it for my whole life so to have the housing cost fixed permanently when the mortgage rate was at 3%.

Corona can stretch the dollar much longer than Jackson Heights, but many families avoid Corona due to poor performance of school zones and districts.

Thanks for the color on the school districts. I am wondering if there are magnet schools that are accessible from there. I noticed large houses in Corona are actually quite expensive, so clearly enough buyers like it.

Krolik, Jackson Heigh with vintage RR.
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/cars/the-bravest-driver-in-new-york-city-gets-around-in-a-1925-rolls-royce-86c9414a?mod=hp_featst_pos4

Jackson Heights is jammed with cars so great if you don't have one or can find dedicated parking. It's very pretty.

Most of the really pretty buldings in Jackson Heights don't allow dogs. I think the first building to change its mind about that and go full-on pet-friendly will see a real pop in value.

> Most of the really pretty buldings in Jackson Heights don't allow dogs.

For the two apartments that I purchased, they both allowed dogs (but board approval is required). Maybe I was just too lucky, but I also know a couple of other buildings that also allow dogs (with board approval).

> Jackson Heights is jammed with cars so great if you don't have one or can find dedicated parking. It's very pretty.

For cars, I will definitely go with nada's renting mantra.

I ditched the car right before I moved to NYC.

With the uber or other ride app, for most people, car owning is just too much hassle and not making economic sense. Before uber age, I saved the phone numbers of several local car service companies in the neighborhood.

There's a suburban mentality in Queens that skews toward car ownership.

For the House that I grew up in in Queens. The closest place to shop for anything was a mile away. Bus service is also extremely sporadic in the area. So you can spend over an hour When you want to get a slice of Pizza or a quart of milk or you can buy a car

Not every part of Queens is that remote. We get it. You like to drive your car everywhere.

You are very cavalier about the plight of millions of New Yorkers. But I realize you just don't give a shit about the lower 50% of the population and here. They are an inconvenience to you and you wish that somehow they would just go away.

Not really. I wish their cars would go away, especially the selfish ones near public transit that have no regard for anyone else.

I would say that the biggest group who have no regard for anyone else are the cyclists.

Every major city I’ve lived in has some sort of resident parking permit program in place. For example, in San Francisco where I spend half the year, many streets are resident permit parking only, otherwise you can only park for 1-2 hours. And yes, it is enforced, not 24 hours every day, but certainly people get tickets. The permit costs around $100 per year and you need to show proof of residency like a utility bill. But not in NYC, we have only have street cleaning restrictions. So everybody keeps their car. Why not? As long as you are willing to sit in your car three hours a week, you can park your car forever on the street. Even the parking authority ignores you on street cleaning times as long as you’re present at your car. That’s part of the problem….a modest annual resident permit fee may make some people think twice about keeping their shitbox of a car on the street that they use maybe 1-2 times per month

I think a bigger issue than people owning cars is deliveries (Amazon etc) and Uber/Lyft. The city should figure out a way to restrict package deliveries to two times a week for a particular area from any one company. Basically forcing people to consolidate their shipments from Amazon Prime and others.

Then create loading and unloading piers on every block. Cabs can only pick up there rather than blocking the traffic when parking in front of building is not available.

Just my own observation but I've noticed Amazon finds ad hoc unloading areas that don't disrupt traffic, then a whole team of guys dissemble the parcels into boxes that either get pulled by bikes or hand carts closer to their destination.