20 Pine Continues the Decline... Is this a Trend?

If for some reason you are renting temporarily, this is probably a better place to look than the pure rental buildings, especially if you can put the brokerage fee back on the owner.

Higher quality building, more absent residents means less traffic, higher quality neighbors than generally in a rental building.

Definitely wouldn't buy here, this is a prime building for decline with a marginal area for long-term residents and high marketing, and also bad developer timing. I also think they worked with one of the more marginal development sales groups.

No surprise, the number is up to 54, and there is new competition for "leader".... someone else went to $2,450.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/20-pine-street-new_york
20 Pine Street 595 ft² - $2,500
20 Pine Street 656 ft² - $2,500
20 Pine Street 662 ft² - ↓ $2,500
20 Pine Street 607 ft² - ↓ $2,450
20 Pine Street - ↓ $2,445

I can only imagine with this is going to look like in a couple of weeks... I have to figure this is the kind of building that gets POUNDED with wall street troubles...

I'm struck by how many studio units are up for sale. That really smells like "investor-owned" to me.

sorry, i meant "how many studio units" are up for RENT.

I actually heard from someone that this is a big investor-owned building...

You really have to like what streeteasy and sites like this do. Really changes the flow of information...

Any updates on this heavily investor-owned building given the current market?

How are the investors doing who are trying to rent out, now t hat we are already in September?

now 55 apartments for rent...

I have to figure the majority of investors aren't feeling very well this week.

They might not be investors. Don't forget these people put a deposit down up to 3 years ago. A lot can change in 3 years and rather than lose the 10% deposit they are just trying to save face. I would run the numbers and rent for under my mortgage payment up until the point of my 10% deposit. Hopefully by then the market will have turned more positive.

I was told by someone close to the building that it was meant as an investory building.

Also note that all of the $2500 and under apartments I listed are still there...

Look at the developer, the sales agent, the designer (Armani), ...

and you need more proof that this isn't a building intended for people for the long-term?

Yes, I do. Those to me are all "hip" things made to appeal to foreign buyers / investors.

Families and kids are taking up most of the inventory downtown now... and the kids are renting...

they rented the cheapest one... all the others are still up there... 53 listings.

Ouch.

55... and another in the 2500s now...

20 Pine Street 786 ft² $2,550
20 Pine Street 595 ft² $2,500
20 Pine Street 675 ft² $2,500
20 Pine Street 662 ft² ↓ $2,500
20 Pine Street 607 ft² ↓ $2,450

Holy bajesus... its an epidemic...

20 Pine Street 595 ft² $2,500
20 Pine Street 675 ft² ↓ $2,500
20 Pine Street 701 ft² ↓ $2,500
20 Pine Street 610 ft² $2,500
20 Pine Street 662 ft² ↓ $2,500
20 Pine Street 610 ft² ↓ $2,500
20 Pine Street 607 ft² ↓ $2,450

64 now for rent. The slide continues....

I just heard from a friend that the Sponsors have cut list prices on unsold units by 25%, bringing the lower priced units well below $800 sq. ft. This will certainly put pressure on pricing in the whole FiDi market, esp. other new developments, such as the District. It also undercuts the resellers at 20 Pine, which will likely force prices even lower as desperation sets in.

"the Sponsors have cut list prices on unsold units by 25%"

Good. That means they only have another 40% to go.

bg4884, while your point is well taken, I am not really sure if one can necessarily generalize the pricing movements at 20 Pine to other developments in the area.

Reason: I've found many floor plans there to be quite awkward (e.g., one dinky window for a 1,000 SF railroad studio apartment), and I don't think those units would be well received in ANY market at ANY price, in ANY neighborhood... I know the District is also struggling, but there are others that are doing well (e.g., 90 William). So, let us see what transpires in the coming months.

wow, 50 for sale and another 64 for rent. 114 units on the market - how many units are there total? crazy!!

> and I don't think those units would be well received in ANY market at ANY price, in ANY neighborhood

Except they sold like hotcakes a couple years back...

The only change is the market...

A lot of Manhattan luxury buildings looking to rent units are just going to have to face it that the $3000+/mo price point (for a 1 bedroom) is on its way to becoming history -- especially for non-prime areas like the financial district. I'm amazed it's lasted this long.

(Though in fact, one month free rent is getting so common that, in terms of effective rents, $3000 is already history, you could say.)

I agree - if you look at 20 Pine, the rental inventory just keeps growing. The owner will have a tough choice, keep lowering his rent which will only increase his monthly carrying costs to hold out until the market improves and he can sell, or just dumping the apt. at any cost now. Certainly not a pretty picture, anyway you look at it.

69 for rent. Waving the white flag...

STREETEASY HISTORY
08/08/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $4,700
08/15/2008
Price decreased to $4,600
09/04/2008
Price decreased to $4,500
09/09/2008
Price decreased to $4,000
09/25/2008
Price decreased to $3,800
10/14/2008
Price decreased to $3,700
10/17/2008
Price decreased to $3,600
11/04/2008
Price decreased to $3,525
11/04/2008
Price decreased to $3,500
11/12/2008
Price decreased to $3,495
11/22/2008
Price decreased to $3,250
11/25/2008
Price decreased to $3,200
11/26/2008
Price decreased to $3,000

A majority of the buildings around that area are not well built. I've looked over the years for investment purposes and never found anything worth buying. I think it still has a long way to fall.

not well built? This was a former Chase HQ building.

Little Black Arrows raining down. Wow.

This is definitely a better building to be a renter in than Yoo because of the simple fact that owners are tripping over themselves and getting more desperate to rent their units. It is an anomaly in the marketplace because of the luxury aspect, the lateness in the market, and the fact that the developer got into trouble. And it is in Wall Street which is experiencing weakness just as this building opened.

I think I said around that area YooSerious. Read carefully. It doesn't matter if one building does well/is built well if the basic trend for the area is crappy conversions and shitty new construction. If the area doesn't thrive, the building won't....as we're seeing.

did anyone here rent/own at 20 pine? how has the experience been?

> not well built? This was a former Chase HQ building.

Huh?

So was Chase plaza. So was the crappy Park Ave hq. Neither of those is anything to write home about.
I'd give it "medium" construction quality at best.

?

what are you some sort of construction engineer?

insane inventory at this bldg

When you combine flippers with a much smaller wall street, you get 20 Pine. William Beaver, you and your sky high sq/ft are in rouble.

Sponsors have discounted remaining units by 25%. The StreetEasy prices do not reflect the discount, but I have heard that is the deal. Many of those apts are for rent or sale, whichever comes first. Most of the flippers have not yet arrived at the reality that they are screwed as asking prices are set at 2007 levels and are in competition with the Sponsor, who is undercutting them. I expect reality will set in next year.