Buh bye Morgan Stanley.

bateman - what exactly is wrong with MS that would give you the indication that it wont survive tomorrow.

MS will be trading at $14 by noon. $11 by close. Just a guess.

MS and Goldman are both in danger of having their credit rating downgraded tomorrow. A ratings downgrade is a license to kill in this market. Lenders to the bank demand more collateral. This is happening on the same day the bank's clients withdraw their funds. If MS/GS can't meet the demand, they must declare bankruptcy. They cannot remain in business overnight with their debt not matching their equity. A bank that owes money at the end of the day is insolvent. Normally a bank borrows money overnight to cover any cash shortfall. You can't do this when your credit rating is cut to junk. Of course the Fed/Treasury could step in and guarantees the banks debt will be paid if the bank agrees to various terms and conditions.

based on what ?

80man, the downgrade is nothing new, people expected it, dont know if you looked at the cds spreads this month

since when does equity have to equal debt

since when did MS and GS own money to someone, if i remember right both of these have funding over the near term, ie 3rd qtr 2009, and have mangaerd seveal qtrs of positive profit throughout the crisis.

lupus1, read 'em and weep.

From Bloomberg news:"Morgan Stanley Rating on Review at Moody's; Goldman Outlook Cut "

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHFmX.IY.nJk&refer=home

Did I mention Wall Street is moving to D.C.?

lupus1 asks "since when does equity have to equal debt?"

At least since the last depression.

Blankfein: "This is our moment, Hank. Let Morgan Stanley go. There can be only one. There can be only Goldman."

lups1 asks "since when did MS and GS owe[sic[ money to someone"

From the Bloomberg article: MS $200 billion short-term debt. GS $175 billion short-term debt.

The Morgan Stanley review affects about $200 billion of debt, Moody's said. The ratings assessor affirmed its Prime-1 grade for Morgan Stanley's short-term debt. The outlook for Goldman affects $175 billion of debt, and the company's short-term ratings were also affirmed at Prime-1.

well done 80sman you managed to pull up bloomberg and basically reference the same article that is going to appear in the times, journal etc tomorrow. lets not forget we are dealing here with moodys and stand&poors. their foresight is remarkable. i am glad they are doing something for once.

again why does debt have to equal equity, explain this gem ?

and i suppose at least DC will be better than chicago

lupus1, Moody's, S&P are scared, and rightly so, of a class-action suit brought on by the U.S. government alleging they exercised negligence in handling the company ratings over the past year. Someone needs to pay for this.

Like everything else about 2008, too little, too late.

lupus1, D.C. is where the money and the power are now. All finance will be political for the next few years. Chicago? Where did that come from?

they are useless in all environments. why do we even bother.

some loser was ranting on about chicago on another discussion.