open houses 10/12/08

No evidence of price drops? Guy's totally out of touch. I've been given all kinds of reasons too as to why people won't need to sell. Hey, to each his own but I think we'll come out on top in a few months. No open houses this week although I did see 8 places with a broker earlier this week.

Two for me:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/252615-condo-145-east-48th-street-midtown-new-york

145 East 48th - 31A This listing had everything on my list: 1.5 bath, a space that could be a den/office/extra room, a balcony and it's a condo. Price reduction, too. The half bath is turned into a sauna, the master bath is marble, the kitchen is adequate but of the roll-edge formica countertop era. A paint job would do a lot. So, why did my check book stay in my pocket? Balcony and views from windows are closed in by higher buildings (and this on the 31st floor!), and the living room is too small to break up into the extra room we need. But this one can be nice for a buyer who isn't a space hog like us and I feel there is still some room for price negotiation. I arrived near the end and may have been the only viewer and I wasn't asked to sign in.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/356638-coop-333-east-53rd-street-sutton-place-new-york

This one needs it all. Price down to 880,000, looking for offers. Floors were nice and in good condition. Tough floor plan (not in the listing, nor available ate the open house) to make coherent living space for our needs, practically no kitchen, all north facing and doesn't quite clear the buildings behind, but the light was good and it is very quiet. I was first on the list, but came right at the start.

Cliff7082 - re: 333 East 53rd: You know it's bad when the listing includes a shot of the building laundry room!

StreetEasy History
Does the "A.C." stand for "Absolute Clown"?

08/12/2008 Previously listed with A.C. Lawrence for $980,000
08/16/2008 A.C. Lawrence listing unavailable at $980,000
08/16/2008 Previously listed with A.C. Lawrence for $980,000
08/23/2008 A.C. Lawrence listing unavailable at $980,000
08/23/2008 Previously listed with A.C. Lawrence for $980,000
09/03/2008 A.C. Lawrence listing unavailable at $980,000
09/03/2008 Previously listed with A.C. Lawrence for $980,000
09/13/2008 A.C. Lawrence listing unavailable at $980,000
10/10/2008 Listed with A.C. Lawrence at $880,000

I've been going to fewer and fewer open houses recently - and none this weekend.

With sellers so out of touch with reality I figure it's really not a great use of my time.

I need some real price incentives - otherwise I'm quite content to just enjoy the city.

A buyers' strike.

"Two weeks ago, I was told it was quiet because of the rain, this weekend because of the great weather."

Next week the open houses will be quiet because the weather is in the middle, and folks can't decide what to wear.

I went to one, 201 west 70th st. I went at the end of the 1 hr open house and 16 ppl had come through.
It was a decent apartment but I just don't think anyone is going to be buying it anytime soon given the economy. The broker tried to tell me that once a new president is elected, things will change....and I am sure they will, eventually.

I agree with Topper. I am not wasting my time with any more OHs until price adjustments start to take hold. Instead, today I enjoyed my first leisurely Sunday brunch in ages!!

True story: A broker at an open house came flat out and told me "Look, I realize this apartment is overpriced. Just put in an offer for what you think is fair and I'll try to work on the seller." The unit had been on the market for over 6 months with no price reductions - I don't want to be any more specific for the broker's sake. It was obvious that he hasn't been able to secure any offers for a while and probably just needed something to show the seller that he was still trying. I get the sense that some brokers (or the sellers they represent) are eager to consummate a sale in case this is the last chance before things fall off a cliff. I don't think that what I feel is fair-value for the apartment would get them to return my phone call anyway.

Prices are definitely coming down. I've been looking for almost 2 years (in the $~700K range) and can see comparable props tumble. For example, a co-op on 7th street in the east village went for $650K in 2 weeks it was on the market. The identical floorplan in the same building, possibly same floor (and it looked nicer, too) went onto the market for $675K a few months ago (same broker) and has not moved. It just got reduced to $599K! There are other examples of this I've noticed cropping up in the NYT.

Prices will have to come down because mortgages are harder to get for less than perfect credit and 20% down, and smart buyers are skittish. I'm certainly waiting until the "perfect place" shows up for a good price, and I suspect 2009 will be the time for this to happen.

Happy shopping...

iMom...sounds like the broker is about to lose the listing. Once the sellers burn through 2-3 brokers without breaking price, its decision time.

Cliff, regarding 333 E 53rd, the apartments facing north are not quiet. There is constant noise coming from the 54th St recreation center and the students or "Actors" at the Neighborhood Playhouse bellow profanity out of the open windows until 11PM many nights. I used to live on St Marks Pl between 2nd and 3rd facing the street and it was quieter.

mjc68 - Thanks! The kind of thing the Sunday afternoon open house visitor might never find out until it too late.

When my son was looking for an apartment a few years ago, he fell in love with 333 east 53 Street. Since he needed a guarantor, the broker told him he wouldn't pass muster with the board because they didn't permit guarantors. I, too, thought it was a beautiful building. But after that experience, and hearing it was a "difficult" board, he set his sights on apartments in buildings where the board was "reasonable." I think that criterion is very important when looking for an apartment. You don't want a building where people can freely sublet, so you never know who's your neighbor. Nor do you want a building where it's impossible to get through the board in the event that you need to sell quickly. What I've noticed with 333 east 53 street is that many of the listings, even in the hot market, took a long time to sell. I'm assuming because the board was impossible and sellers were hard pressed to find buyers who looked good on paper.

Re: 333 east 53 - The agent told me the board wants 2 1/2 years mortgage payments and maintenance (liquid? in assets?) after the closing.
My friend sold his mother's Sutton Place coop for $1 million a few years ago. The buyers had to show $4 million liquid after the purchase. Yikes!

was waiting on a counter from a seller in Brooklyn and got it last night - i'm guessing that the OH was DEAD. so thanks to everyone who stayed home ;)

Cliff... I'd love to hear from other buyers what their boards required. I've been reading this board since my son entered the market and I haven't read much about finance requirements. While your friend's mother's building sounds quite draconian, I'd be interested in hearing what other experiences people have had. I know some buildings require a 50% down payment. I just know that I thought 333 East 53 was not in a league we were interested in playing in.

Cliff... We also avoided buildings that had flip taxes. Again, I'd be interested to hear if others thought this was a deterrent to buying in a particular building.

My building requires a 25% down payment, not very strict financial requirements beyond that (maybe 6 months of payments liquid) - 2.5% flip tax paid by the buyer. Maintenance is very low relative to peer buildings.

My son's building requires 20% down, guarantors allowed, 6 months of payments liquid, NO flip tax. No subletting.

I went to the open house at Loft 14 this weekend.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/135-west-14-street-new_york

I think they actually did a very nice job with these apts. They're clearly not going to get what they are asking for and they know it. The broker encouraged me to make an offer.

VR - my building is 20% down and would like you to have 50% of the purchase price liquid after the close. If you do not, they require you to put 2 years of maintenance in escrow. There is a very small flip tax based on shares, which works out to something in the range of .5% or so. There is also a reasonable sublet policy.

i saw loft 14 too. ccdevi, i agree with you. apartments are quite nice. problem here i believe is location. this specific part of 14 is noisy and you have the salvation army across the block.

i had seen 333 west 14th before which is similar to loft 14. but again i thought it was asking much more than i felt an upper bound for reasonable.

lupus, I actually live very close by, sure its not ideal to be right on 14th but I really don't think its that big a deal. The noise could be a problem but from what I heard they did a pretty good job sound proofing the place. They are overpriced but if you could get one at 20% off the current asking price (and my guess is that's not impossible, I think you could get 10% off for sure), I think it would be a decent buy.

"they did a pretty good job sound proofing the place."

Unless you want to open the window.

"They are overpriced but if you could get one at 20% off the current asking price (and my guess is that's not impossible, I think you could get 10% off for sure), I think it would be a decent buy."

Why take the risk when they just lowered prices by $250,000? If they have that much leeway, there's probably plenty more.

And if they don't sell you could wind up being the only condo owner in a rental building. It's happened before.

Also - I hope you don't mind the church bells early Sunday morning.

"Why take the risk when they just lowered prices by $250,000? If they have that much leeway, there's probably plenty more."

Well I said that if you get another 20% off, roughly $500k for floors 2-5, it would be a DECENT buy. So I'm not sure what your point is.

"And if they don't sell you could wind up being the only condo owner in a rental building. It's happened before."

They obviously have only sold 3 of 9, even though they have been on the market for some time and the building will soon be done (and one of those 3 was bought by a principal at the developer or some other insider). So yes there is a risk of rentals.