Maintenance, common charges, taxes and all that

Coops include the maintenance and taxes as one number, since you own shares in the building. Condos separate the 2 costs. $1.10/sq. foot is very low for maintenance (assuming that also includes the taxes), so you may have a tough time finding that. Also, realize that those numbers will go up as property taxes increase or as the building needs to raise maintenance to pay for improvements, higher energy costs, staff, etc.

Co-ops typically show monthlies as a single maintenance charge, a portion of which is deductible RE tax. Condos list taxes separately. If you see a condo that doesn't list taxes, the building may be mis-classified, or the data simply may not be available. Of course, with new or recent condo construction, you have to consider abatements.

There are some well-run co-ops on the UES with small underlying mortgages that keep their monthlies in the $1/sq.ft. range. Of course, you'll tend to pay for that advantage in the purchase price.

Waverly and West81st, thanks a lot for the answers. A couple more questions: is it my impression or maintenance is generally way lower in the UWS? Or is it only in the UWS up by Manhattan Valley, where the schools are not as good and etc.? And if that were the case, shouldn't having rent-stabilized tenants increase your maint. instead of decreasing it? And, aren't there bldgs. in the UES that do away with doorman (let's say install a virtual doorman, like some bldgs in the village) and other services, which can lower maintenance? thanks a lot,

Trompiloco: For comparable buildings with similar services and the same ownership structure, I haven't noticed any significant difference in monthlies between UWS and UES. I have no idea which side of town has the lead in virtualization. It seems reasonable that the buildings east of Third Avenue where the demographic skews relatively young would be more likely to dispense with family-friendly amenities like a 24-hour doorman; but I have no data to back that up.

agreed... I haven't seen big maintenance differences on one side or the other.

Where you will see differences is on older vs. new construction - the old buildings can have CRAZY low maintenance because of the ridiculous system in this city that treats them like rental buildings - and being a high amentity building. 5th avenue co-ops have super high maintenance often, but that can hold for CPW as well...

Then of course, size of underlying mortgage will have some impact.

and size of building... a doorman with a small building will be mucho expensive.

West81st and 10022, listings like the following were the ones that got me thinking:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/314960-coop-285-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/357441-coop-255-west-95th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/356871-coop-110-west-94th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

this are all listed at 1000 sq ft approx, but maintenance is 950 instead of the 1,400 you'd have on the UES. I guess they're all non-doorman, so my question is: is the doorman (and the extra cost of it) generally inevitable in the UES? I have the impression that doormen are also kind of the norm around Lincoln Center. I don't have to money to spare and would personally prefer no doorman and pocket the difference.

Actually, this is the winner:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/226928-condo-7-west-104th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york

Hey, sorry to insist, but does anyone know why or how the maintenance is so low in the bldgs. I listed yesterday? The neighborhood is not great (the zoned school is bad) but is not bad. One of them is 1 block from the park, and they have a maintenance charge of like 40 cents per sq. ft.

I mean, if I could find something alike 10 blocks further south (ps 183 zone) I would be very happy.

You're a good pilotfish, Trompiloco, those are all apartments that hubby and I would be intrigued by.

The four largest components of maintenance are staffing, heating, building upkeep, and a building's underlying mortgage.

Low maintenance indicates that a building is paying for fewer staff -- but possibly also that its underlying mortgage is low (a positive that you'd have to read the financials to confirm) and also possibly that some maintenance that should have been taking place on a regularly scheduled basis has been deferred (a negative that you'd have to read the financials to find.)

I don't work uptown, so I don't know those buildings cold, but my guess is it that it's the staff issue (figure one 24-hour doorman, which is three shifts, is going to cost a building around $150K a year) plus a combo of a cheap underlying mortgage and possibly deferred maintenance.

Also realize that maintenance is going to be cheaper in a walkup such as 104th street because the building does not have to maintain an elevator.

Of course you have to compare buildings of the same size to each other, because a building with more owners is generally going to have lower maintenance per owner as there are more people to share the burden.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

A 24-hour doorman requires at least 5 people for full 7 day coverage. You will also need porters to take care of things like trash, cleaning, etc so that the doorman doesn't have to leave his post and take care of these responsibilities. The porters, in turn, will cover the door when the doorman is on a break. So a 24 hour doorman, in essence, means 8 or 9 staff for the building. They are union jobs and are quite expensive, plus throw in a super and handy-man at a minimum and you are now at 10-11 staff....not cheap.

Hey Ali, thanks for the compliment! True be told, I have to be good at unearthing deals because I have no money to spare. A doorman wouldn't hurt my lifestyle, but I would rather take no doorman in NY than a McMansion in NJ. And $700 extra in maintenance times 12 is 8400, and when that comes into play vis-a-vis the fact that lenders require your income to be at least 3x your monthly PITI, means that you would have to earn 25K more per year. BTW, do you know whether they calculate PITI with or without the tax deduction when they calculate that 3x?

I saw 7 west 104 a couple of months ago, when I went to NY looking for a pied-a-terre. Its part of a development that encompasses several houses that look like 80´s fake brownstones, a project geared to lower-income families back then. The apt was ok, overlooking a pleasant community garden. The terrace is really a rear balcony that I found rather depressing. I spoke with a couple of people living there and they seemed very picky, complaining about a lady that baby´sits kids, someone else that has too many foreign friends visiting...seemed like a a kid-oriented, very tight community. For the one that likes that, iits ok. I prefer a more private environment. The buildings´ entrances are awful. The maintenance is so low because there is actually a big number of units (the building wraps around the corner one more block, I believe) There is no doorman, but you have a live in super around the corner. I bet the maintenance doesn´t include heating.

I just got notice that my building's maintenance will increase by 15% next year. I was wondering if anyone else has gotten notice on maintenance increases for their building and what % increase.

Sorry, Tromp, I just saw this -- the income/PITI ratio is calculated without the tax deduction.

ali r.
{downtown broker}