121 West 20th Street (amended)

Seems mighty pricey and my ass it's 1700 square feet. MAYBE if you count the loft space that's open to the downstairs as square feet.

Down Payment: $279,000
Mortgage Amount: $1,116,000
Mortgage Payment: $7,803
Total Monthly Payment: $9,129

Wow.

We looked at this place as well. It was nice. I guess you didn't notice the small cemetary directly across the way. Not good. The agent kept saying the apartment's view will never be blocked...well yeah.

I don't know - I live next to that old cemetery. Not a peep.

tcnr--I actually did see the cemetary, didn't really bother me that much. In your opinion did you think it was fairly priced (I know the seller just came down 100K, but perhaps there is more room)?

Must be an asian thing...very bad feng shui.

We thought it was a nice apartment..but yes there is more room to go down.

Thanks, tcnr--yes, the cemetary didn't bother me, paricularly because it is a very old, historical one and won't be built on. I agree, I think there is some room to go down but I did think it was a lot of space for the money, and the fact that it's a condo makes it more appealing.

Is that the cemetary accross bet 6th & 7th? If so, I think it's kinda charming, very old, & lovingly maintained and a reminder of how the neighborhood used to be country fields.

I am not a fan of upstairs bedroom lofts due to lack of privacy & that area may be difficult to cool in summer.

What is the 2nd floor room w/ the big X on the floor plan?

Yes, that's the same cemetary---I think it's "sort of charming" as well. The X is nothing, it's open to below. The area next to the second bedroom is a huge office area, could be used for anything. Right now I don't plan on using the second bedroom as a bedroom, so it doesn't bother me that much (and eventually if I do I might close that off). As far as the AC, there are individual AC/Heat units in all roome (including upstairs).

Wary,

Do you pay the extra $10 to see the previous sales prices in this bld? I'd post it for you, but fear I'd be violating some rule.

I see that in 7/2004, a 4th fl unit sold for $1.36, which is not to say that today's price couldn't go below $1.395. So, is this a 'good' price? I don't know & as steve said, will your monthly payment be $9K+? What's your downpayment? What's yr mtg rate? How long will you stay?

We saw this place, too - The bathrooms definitely need work and the upstairs, if it were going to be made into a living space would need a lot of work. I thought the kitchen could be blown out to make a great room that was more interesting than what is there presently, but that's just a matter of whether you like a separate kitchen or not. I thought the cemetary aspect was kind of cool, not creepy. The place has awesome light. That said, I think the place should trade just under 1 million, you can't really count the loft in the square footage as the ceiling seems just a wee bit too low & it would never be considered a legal second bedroom.

Somebody please spell "cemetery" correctly! Thanks!

Also, watch for the noise on 6th Avenue and 20th Street from the Avalon and other night clubs. You might be spending a lot of money to spend Friday and Saturday nights awake at 4 am.

The cemetery's fine. Lots of old Jewish people. Reminds me of Grossinger's.

Hi Dwell--yes, I paid the $10 and saw the previous sale prices in this building, assuming you could get this aprt. for around 1.2 it's definitely lower than all the others in the building. I would stay at least 3-5 years, and my monthly would not be that high (I'd put 25% down and do a 5-year adjustible at 5.375, which is about a $6,300 gross outlay and $4,600 net (after the tax deduction).

mrsbuffet--agreed, the bathrooms could use some work and the ceilings on the seconf floor are a bit low, but it's still a lot of space up there for an office and extra storage area. And you're right, it does get great light and has a lot of character. Looking at the building comps for other similar apts., I think if you could get the ask down to around 1.2, it may be a good deal.

Sorry steve, thought it looked wrong.

sorry steve, google is making me stoopid.

Steve...when you do your rent/buy analysis (where you came up with 9K a month here)...do you always assume that people put down the absolute minimum? A million dollar + mortgage seems nuts on an apartment barely over a mill to begin with...but maybe thats just me.

It'd be great if Wary could put enough down so that he/she doesn't need a jumbo.

Dwell and Steve--I would put down 25%, which would yield the monthly payments I outlined ($6,300 gross outlay and $4,600 net after the tax deduction) based on a 5-year adjustible of 5.375.

I didn't do a buy/rent analysis - I copied the figures that came up on the listing.

That said, the proper way to see the true cost is the use financing which approximates the life of the asset. Real estate is depreciated over 27.5 years, except the land portion which can't be depreciated. Therefore, a 30-year 80/20 mortgage is what is closest to that depreciation schedule.

Of course you can put down more, but that just increases your opportunity cost and risk.

Steve,

In very unsophisticated terms, I think it's best to put down as much cash as one can so that the mortgage is as small as possible. Dumb? Smart?

we saw this place too and loved the double french doors, kinda reminded me of paris. the bathrooms def need work, but i have to say that i don't think you can go below 1 million dollar mark for this loft. i looked into building history and they haven't had anything less than 1 million in years. for 4th floor apt in this building the last sale was 1.36m back in 2004, i know things aren't as peachy nowadays but kinda doubt they'd go down to 1.2. but hey you can always make an offer for the apt and see what happens. but i do think you get a lot of space for the money. did you go up to the roof deck by any chance?

I didn't go up to roof deck (is it nice). It does seem like a lot of space for the money, but in this market who knows. The second floor doesn't have a "real" bedroom, and the ceiling is a bit low, and the bathrooms do need work but agreed, the space has a ton of character. I don't love the view (it's close to other building) but it gets a lot of light. We may put in a low offer and see what happens...

hi wary. the roof deck is descent. nice enough to bring up your meal upstairs with a of bottle of wine and do an al fresco dinner. for me personally when i saw the second floor, i need it more as my work space (i make jewelry), so i thought about using the whole second floor (which is huge) as my design studio. yes ceiling is low but i'm not a tall girl so i think i'd be ok with it. i'm also thinking about updating the kitchen and the bathrooms downstairs, for me those as 'fun' projects and they don't take that long to finish (2 months tops maybe?). i did those things when i first got my first condo, i think it's important to have your own signature when u buy a new place. how many times have u seen this particular place? i'm thinking of going back to their open house this sunday.

Hi Chelseagirl--so did you go back to see this apartment? Curious to hear what you thought after the second viewing?

hi wary. yes i went back. for me personally i still really like it because it suits me great. i've looked at other lofts with extra large work space else where (soho, noho, etc) and for the price i think the one on 20h street offers the best bang for your buck assuming you don't mind the low ceiling. i'm planning on a 3rd showing at this point and should i still like the place i'm thinking of giving them an offer... so we'll see. if i get it, i will def put a third small bathroom upstairs and in a few years time once all this economic shenanigan is done and over with, the value of this place would be much higher. did u go back?

ps did you see the new construction they're doing across the street on 20th street? why do they always build the ugliest buildings in ny these days? what's up with that? that's why generally i'm drawn towards vintage buildings

Seems overpriced to me. Agree w/ Steve, no way it's 1700 sq ft. And even if it was close, that's only including the loft 2nd floor. Maybe its just me but I hate crammed loft spaces. Anyways, I have no interest in being next to a cemetary so I think it's just ridiculously overpriced. Oh, and you will never sell this to anyone who cares about feng shui (not that that matters to you).

warybuyer - next time you go back measure this place up. there is no way this place is 1700 square foot unless you plan to build a bridge across 20th street. 5e had a similar layout and included the roof and was quoted at 1700.

hi wary, after reading those 2 posts after me, i did a little measurements. i have the info in front of me regarding this apt. let's not count the upstairs at all. downstairs, with the super tall ceilings, it's measured at 1200 sq ft. the loft is measured at 500 sq ft. again, let's totally forget the loft for now. let's pretend i could get this place for 1.2m. that would be $1,000 per sq ft. would that be the worst deal in town for chelsea u think?

wary if chelseagirl was a serious buyer do you think (he/she) would be giving you all this info in favor of buying the apartment.

hmmm...not sure lupus. Maybe she is genuinely trying to gauge whether or not she wants to put an offer down. Not sure what her motivation would be for providing a false opinion on this particular apartment...

chelseagirl = Sukenik?

u guys are fierce... lol. i like thinking out loud. like everyone else looking to buy in this market, i'd really like to get the best deal in town. but of course a girl has to really really like the place too... decision, decision...

by the way i got the 411 of this place by simply asking my broker.

Chelseagirl--how did you get the dimensions of the first floor? I asked the broker on Sunday and he did not know...

I'm still trying to decide how much the low ceiling on the second floor will bother me...

First floor looks like it's about 700sqft.
Loft floor looks like somewhere between 300 to 400sqft.
So total useable floor area is about 1100 sqft.
If you were to include the open space (not the loft space chelseagirl) then you would get to maybe 1500 sqft but of course that it not useable.

First floor is definitely more than 700sqft, the rooms are enormous. I live in a 1200 sq foot apartment now, I'd say the first floor is 1100-1200 sq feet.

ask your broker to call sukenik. it's a little less than 1200 sq ft downstairs and the upstairs is between 500 - 600 sq ft. im not home right now so don't have it in front of me. for me personally my biggest issue is actually the strong dollar, as i'm originally from across the pond. the days of the strong pound/euro are over :(. regarding the low ceiling, that's a tough one. if you're a tall-esque person then it's going to be an issue, that's for sure.

Thanks, Chelseagirl. Yes, I'm on the fence about this property. It does seem like a good deal if you could get the ask down to 1.2, but the bathrooms definitely need some work (and maybe the kitchen) if you really wanted to increase the value. The second floor you definitely need to be uner 6' 1" to comfortable walk around. I think the apartment has a lot of character, the only other thing I dont like is the fact it's so close to the building across from it, not a lot of privacy.

offer 1.120 at most. Not worth a dime more.

GoingDown--how can you make that assessment if you haven't seen the apartment?

hi wary. looks like i have to compete with u for this place... lol. i'd like to take an architect friend of mine to see the place. i wonder if you could extend the loft to that empty space above the kitchen? the kitchen has super high ceiling and that space it's not really doing anything. i need to know how much it would cost me to do that. do u think that's a crazy idea? i need as much space as possible for my design studio upstairs. what do u think? i don't know if u remember the place, but do u think it's also possible to open up the kitchen a little bit?

Chelseagirl, did you make an offer?

It is still on the market and available, I called the broker just to test it, and it is, so I would assume that she either passed or the offer get nilled.

Personally, since it is still available, I would wait for another price drop, hopefully 50k then put in an offer 45 below that and see if they're ready to bite.

Not sure how it shows, but the pics show it off. But if you're still interested, chelseagirl, I would wait to see if they do another price drop then make an offer. It is a buyers market.

This apartment is now in contract. Not sure for what price, but I know b/c it is my neighbor's and she said it went into contract late last week.

Does anybody no what is going on with this apartment? It was on the market, in contract, now out of contract and back on?

Interestingly, this just closed for 1.29. "Motivated seller" didn't make for too much of a lowball at that time. However, it was after a price drop from the failed contract, so that might explain getting essentially the ask.