Not closing on condo at DISTRICT

An area can be hot, become better, more nightlife, etc., and still be a lousy investment if your entry price is too high in an overall declining market.

LT346,

the building has been running at full capacity for some time now. no construction issues in our apartment at all!

rickylake,

i hope you are right!!

I've been told by someone who's just gone into contract at the district that if all contracts go to close the building will be 85% sold. 60% closed/sold as of now.

What are the doom and gloom comments on this thread based on?

bart22, what do you mean by running at full capacity?

jim123, this place has been "70% sold" based on contract signings forever. the fact of the matter is that there are 163 units and still, after all this time, only around 87 closings. even though many of the apartments are eligible for conforming loans.

will they manage to eke out a couple of sales here and there until they're fully occupied? maybe, it depends on the finances of the developer and whether the lender is willing to extend. but the likelihood is that the last 20% of the sales will be at very low prices to clear final inventory. if purchasers don't mind having the comps in the building immediately undercut by the developer, that's their decision. just will make resale without major loss even harder than at other buildings. of course now that's likely at many other buildings. i wouldn't buy new construction, at this point, but if i were to i'd be damned sure i was one of those buying one of the last few units being sold at inventory-clearing prices.

Thanks AR - that logic is sound and would apply to any building in a similar state of "sold-ness" in this environment.

"What are the doom and gloom comments on this thread based on?"

Short answer: what aboutready said

Longer answer (some of which expands on what aboutready said): They have closed 89 sales (plus any sales closed but not yet recorded in ACRIS), so they are barely over half after a year, and 75% of those came in Nov-Jan. In the last 8 months, they have closed 22 units in total (time series below). With 74 to go, that is just not a recipe for success.

Monthly closing histoy:
Nov 20
Dec 33
Jan 14
Feb 4
Mar 3
Apr 0
May 3
Jun 4
Jul 3
Aug 0
Sep 4
Oct 1 (so far)

Then there is price. The last 5 recorded sales have been at 16-30% off listing price. You can say, "So what, listing price is BS anyway," and you'd be right, but in the few cases from 12/08 - 6/09 where listing price is shown in SE, the sales came in within a few percent either way. (Special congratulations to the rocket scientist who paid over ask for #404, by the way.) So clearly they have started to try to move inventory with price. The question is whether most of it clears around recent closing levels, or whether it takes another round or two of chops to clear. The first big price chop was for a July closing and they have since only managed four more closings (that have hit ACRIS, anyway) since then, so I'm going with "glass is half empty" on the current strategy. I think that there will need to be more concessions beyond the current price levels even to get down to aboutready's 20% remaining inventory on which inventory-clearing prices can be applied.

If you want a green shoots alternative, all I can come up with is that there were three closings in the space of a week from 9/25 to 10/2, so the optimist could suggest that the new pricing is gaining traction and that everything is going to blow out by year end. Seems like a flimsy argument, but in order to have an optimistic view based on data (as opposed to one based on optimism for optimism's sake) it's about all there is.

sideliner - from those numbers things appear to be quite stagnant. we'll see if what i heard is truth or fable - lots of contracts out with pricing discounted from ask but not quite bargain basement.

thanks

could someone tell me how you fill in ACRIS to see actual sold listings. I'm having difficulty. see all other closings at buildings in financial , except this one.

thanks,
Heather

I am not sure how the ACRIS works but streeteasy pulls its data from Acris. Once a closing is done, ACRIS will pull it in and then streeteasy will pull it in. But I think the process takes a few weeks to fully hit to streeteasy.

It seems like there are a lot of haters on this building. I just closed and I have to tell you there are many closings just this week alone! I was surprised when I saw how many they have moved and have not hit streeteasy yet.

I think the bottom line is that the current strategy is working. Of course they are not selling at ask, but most apartments are closing 850 to 900 a foot and penthouses are closing still over 1000k a foot.

All the doom and gloom people on here dont know their facts. In a few weeks I am sure more postings will hit ACRIS. This is an amazing building with great amenities and I am very happy to be moving in!

heather, do a business-name search on "Leviev Fulton". Restrict to deeds if too much other stuff comes up.

I have been living in the building since May 09 (renting) and loving it so decided to buy now and in the process of closing. Hope everything goes well and I close in Jan as expected. The building is awesome, the people are great so I am happy.

Since I am currently renting (studio) I will need to get out of my lease (from Feb 10) so if you know someone who is interested plz let me know. Thanks for your help

I've closed and have moved in to the building and am VERY happy with my apartment and the building. I appreciate all of the commentary from posters here (even the haters who helped me gain a balanced approach to my selection process).

Jim: What do you think of the tiny dishwasher, cooking on an electric stove and 1/2 size oven - I liked the building a lot but as I cook a lot I could not get over the lack of functionality of the kitchen. I felt I would have to remodel the entire kitchen.

I've cooked with both gas and electric and have a slight preference for a high quality electric - I actually like the cooktop. The small oven is fine for the short term and will be a great second oven. So I'm putting more cabinetry under the island that will allow me to add another full-size oven when I'm ready. The kitchen as delivered is NOT a cook's kitchen. But I do love the rest of the package.

hello tasha77
i have a front facing '21' line studio for sale if you would like to contact me
thank you

Any rentals??

I know there are some rentals in the building. And a few listings are here on the District page.

hello,

dkeisler: ty but I already bought an apt and moving in 2 weeks to my new apt
RR1: i am looking for someone to take over my current apt from Feb 1. My landlord is an investor so he wants someone who is willing to take over my apt for at least 1 yr, fin secure, no rommates/shares, etc

u will have to pay 1K move in fee.

the apt is 04 line comes with Bosch W/D, bath tab shower stall
i will be selling some of my furniture if interested.
plz let me know if interested

my email is natulya1977@yahoo.com

Just put an offer down at the District. We were highly impressed by the amenities, staff, and overall design/layout of everything. The last comments posted here are from 3 months ago. We were wondering what current occupants thought of the District. How do you find the people you live with? Are the amenities readily available? That was a big concern of ours with buildings with 400 condos. Also, are people respectful of the building's common areas? We've had issues in the past which really makes paying for common charges more painful. Thanks for your help.

I've been living in the building since January. I really like the building, my condo, the services and management. Some of the tenants are jerks (unfortunately, they're everywhere), but when an issue arises management handles.

JIM123: I'm considering this building as well. It is more expensive than others such as 99John Do you think it's worth it? Did you look around a lot? How is the noise level? I'm not thrilled with the electric stoves & small washer/dryer, etc. but like the fell of the building overall.

Also, just curious of any of you have a good idea of PSFT at the moment. How low will the developer go?
Thanks.

You can easily get below $800psf, some units have sold for less than $600, but I believe this may be a "cave dwelling" with very few windows.

steenstrup,

hard to say how low the developer would go. certain apts are selling for much more psf than others. BUT the most recent closings that ive seen on property shark went for well over 900+ psf. im talking closings in may/june. also, ive been told that there are only 5 or 6 apts left for sale by the developer. ive been living here since december 2008 and am very happy.

I thought it would be timely to update the sales history that I posted about 20 posts above. It's been a battle for the developer, but it looks as if the "green shoots" theory that I noted above (i.e., that the price cuts in the 3rd quarter of 2009 were starting to make units move) has actually played out, although slowly. I am surprised, as I would have expected demand to peter out at some point, requiring another leg down on price to move more property.

I'll pick up the closing history at the end of September 2009. In my previous post, there were 88 closings through September. Five more have since found their way into ACRIS, 1 each in Dec 2008 and July and Seppember 2009 and 2 in January 2009, so the actual starting point is 93 (57% of 163 total units). From there, the closing history is as follows:

Oct 9
Nov 5
Dec 3
Jan 3
Feb 6
Mar 1
Apr 8
May 4
Jun 1 (so far)

These 40 closings take the total up to 133/163, or 82% (plus any others that have closed but not yet hit ACRIS/SE). Serious price cutting started with PH203 in July 2009. Since then, there have been 36 closings that have an associated listing price. Half have have sold for 20% or less off list and half for more than 20% off list. The average discount off list is 21.4%. The listings that I looked at did not show previous cuts, just the direct cut from initial listing price to sale price. However, the price history in the building is messy enough (many previous listings with no unit number, etc.) that it is possible that the listing prices themselves were lower than earlier (say 2007-08) asks. Really, to close about 50% of the building at ask and about another 30% at 21% off ask with volume still moving (suggesting that the 20% +/- reductions are still clearing the market) is not a bad outcome for a FiDi building that started closing post-Lehman. I'm frankly surprised.

The approx. 30 remaining units break down as 4 active listings, 14 in contract and 12 shadow inventory. At recent monthly closing rates, this should be nearly done by year-end.

I've only really gone through the numbers like this on a couple of buildings (and no others in FiDi), but in those couple as well as several others that I watch closely but have not done the math on I am seeing the same pattern, namely, it's taking time, but new dev condos that started closing post-Lehman and don't have wild legal problems (i.e., not Apthorp, One Mad Park) are selling out at prices that are not disastrous. It even looks as if the Rushmore is making progress on the pile of unsold units. The next wave that totally missed the market and have yet to start closing (Azure, Isis, Tempo, 303 East 33rd, Cammeyer, etc.) will be a new test for the market.

I have been living in the building for about 8 months. The building, the staff, the amenities are all fantastic. I have also heard that there are only 6 units left unsold in the building, My guess is the last 6 will go for roughly 20% off initial ask, which is where most of the building has sold at in recent months.
I would have to say the building is in very strong financial shape, as we even had a reduction in common charges for 2010. The amenities I find are hardly ever used by most tenants. Most mornings I am the only person in the gym, (around 6.30am), and some mornings there may be 2 to 3 other people using the gym.. The rooftop can be busy on a nice weekend, but there are always chairs and lounges available, both in the sun and shade.
Overall - I am very happy with my investment.

Been a while since I checked this blog.
Glad to see that my dire predictions about the financial state of this building were wrong and that those who bought and moved in seem happy and satisfied with what they got. There were certainly other new developments where the Sponsor failed to live up to their end of the deal.
I was not wrong though on the pricing. The unit I was to buy was sold earlier this year at a substantial discount to what I had contracted to pay. (Glad I did not take the concession of a free washer and dryer LOL!) Plus, my lawyer was able to negotiate a partial refund of my deposit. All told, including closing costs, I would have taken a loss of about 25% on my total investment, based on what the unit eventually sold for.
Good luck to all who bought and I hope you enjoy the building - sounds like a great place to live.

GeorgeK,

Not sure if you bother checking this discussion any more, but was wondering what percentage of your deposit were you able to get back from your sponsor?

Also - did your lawyer charge you a large sum to get this deposit back?

Thanks,
Jennifer

We are looking at this building for our family. How is it living there? Seems like there were a lot of financial woes in the beginning, did that have an impact on the building and its amenities?