Nasty Elliman broker trick

hey, listen, can we get you to wade through the Madoff books? You seem really good at uncovering shenanigans.

Tromp,
that is sleazy.

A number of Elliman brokers habitually list flexible apartments twice, with different bedroom counts and slightly different unit numbers. For example, Ann Lenane currently has four double listings:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/contact/10966-ann-cutbill-lenane

The main purpose is just to generate extra search-engine hits.

But in this case, listing 4C as C4 you avoid providing the crucial info. that that dump sold for 675K 3 months ago, and is now in the market for 799K. I mean, only SteveF would think that's a deal.

"I mean, only SteveF would think that's a deal."

bwaahahaahahahahahah!!!!

Streeteasy should develop a script to weed these things out.

Trompiloco: It's also listed as #4C.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/370621-coop-522-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
If Meier is trying to hide the previous sale, he's doing a lousy job of it.

Dirty tricks usually come back on the brokers heads as proven here.

Thank goodness for free speech.

Is Ann Lenane that broker who is always advertising in movie theaters?

Agree that there is some shadiness with brokers, but to be fair that's MOST sales professions in general. There's an inherent need to spin (ahem perhaps white lie) in order to get an edge to sell, whether it be real estate, software or derivatives. And that's why I'm not in sales.

yea that is a little shaddy. but i would not direct all the attention to one real estate firm. if anything Elliman is more legit then anyone out there. its the broker themselves that do this.
Vic Parise

Anyone who's going to try to compare comps or see what the owner paid for their property is going to call BS on that anyway, so I'm not sure what the point of it was. Can't you just walk into the building and see that it's 4C, not C4?

Haha, I'll quote one of the posts from my thread about the broker who keyed in the wrong zip code to try to draw more traffic to their listing. I think this broker is so clever to try to hide to actual apartment number so that people overpay for the property! What a genius!

I think the point was to increase the search engine results as noted by W. 81st. It's listed as a one bedroom in one and another as a 2 bedroom. There doesn't seem to be anything sleazy about this nor does the broker seem to be hiding anything since 4C is being listed. As for the increase in price from the original purchase, I have no clue if it's worth the difference. But the apartment seems awfully large to be priced even at $799k. I might drop by to check it out. It's a great location and building.

That broker should lose their license. Very intentionally deceptive marketing practices. It's morons like this who give brokers a bad name (I don't work in real estate) which will lead to the eventual erosion of the industry's commission structure - if the REBNY and other industry associations had a clue about how to protect their members' livelihood they would strip brokers like this of their licenses.

I think sometimes this is done because an apartment may appeal to two types of buyers, one looking for a one bedroom, one looking for a two. This way it shows up in both searches. It may seem a bit deceptive, but there are many people who would settle for a convertible two for a lower price, etc. The search engines aren't perfectly designed.

Good points. That makes more sense... the deception angle was weak.

I agree with AboutReady and Aifamm, the purported "deception" posting by these brokers was weak. Trompolico - you might want to be more careful and do more research before posting such inflammatory and disparaging remarks in the future. I'm not a broker but would hate to be accused of such unsubstantiated accusations.

where's exit2

Curbed has picked up the thread with floorplans and all..

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/12/17/shenanigans_a_tale_of_two_candelas_on_west_end_ave.php#more

dyslexic brokers?

"Trompolico - you might want to be more careful and do more research before posting such inflammatory and disparaging remarks in the future."

"inflammatory and disparaging"? I don't think so.

"unsubstantiated accusation"? I'd say it's relatively substantiated. res ipsa loquitor.

Tromp's got a point. We still haven't heard from the brokers. If Tromp's correct, it'd be nice for them to splain. If Tromp's wrong, he made a mistake, nonethleless, it is confusing: 4C/C4.

Dwell - what is there to explain? One listing as 4C has it as a one bedroom. The other, C4, has it as a 2 bedroom. It's obviously a way to differentiate between the 2 units and the configurations. If the broker was intentionally trying to hide the flip, he would have never called it "4C" in either postings. People need to get a life here. Not every listing is based on some deception.

And buying it for $675k and flipping it for $799k (asking) doesn't sound like such a great deal considering how expensive closing costs are(6% broker's fee alone and it doesn't include the transfer taxes). With all the job losses going around, who's to say this person didn't lose his job? Or lose a significant amount of money in the stock market, thereby, forfeiting his renovation funds? My wife just lost her job and there are many other in the same boat. And 40% of our savings have evaporated in the last couple of months. 3 months ago, many people were in a very different financial situation than they are now. Fortunately for us, we are a 2 family income and her income was extra. Plus, we saved well while many of my colleague's family were buying fancy sports car and renting expensive summer Hamptons home.

"It's obviously a way to differentiate between the 2 units and the configurations."

Oh, please. I have seen many listings which show alternative configurations of floor plans, but none changed the unit number. C'mon.

Yes, but think about this. Buyer "A" may be searching for a 1 bedroom only, and guess what happens? 4C pops up. And if another person, say Buyer "B", is looking for a 2 bedroom and only searches for a 2 bdrm, then the C4 unit would show up.

If they only listed it as one listing with different configurations within it (like you mentioned), say as a one bedroom, the listing would only show up for one of the buyers ("A").

This broker's method will capture 2 types of buyers and double the exposure for the apt. Personally, I think it's a brilliant marketing strategy by the broker to sell this apt. I think this broker is doing a good job representing his seller. Whereas, with your suggestion, it does a disservice to the seller.

BigAp: You miss the point:
IT IS DECEPTIVE!!

"Personally, I think it's a brilliant marketing strategy by the broker to sell this apt."

Yeah, Madoff also had a "brilliant marketing strategy", but it was FRAUDULENT.

Brokers are licensed & as a condition of that license, Deceptive Practices are forbidden.

It's a question of ethics. I assume you do not have a professional license that is subject to review for ethics violations, otherwise, you'd undertsand what I'm saying.
If you do hold such a license, I feel sorry for your clients.

Nothin more for me to say.

How is it deceptive? You think a person who can afford a home like this and go pass a coop board interview not realize the apt door has the number "4C" on it?

Advertising can always be viewed as "deceptive" since you are never pointing out the flaws - only the positives. But it doesn't mean it's fraudulent. And for your information, I come from a family of lawyers, therefore, my words are always carefully chosen.

"And for your information, I come from a family of lawyers, "

Right, can't transmit legal education via DNA.

I ain't here to teach Ethics & Torts.

OK, I'll take the bait:
If one were to file a complaint against these brokers/salespersons, there could be a finding of ethics violation, particularly cuz it appears to be an intentional deception (the "brilliant marketing move"), not an unintentional clerical error, which upon discovery was quickly corrected (hint, hint DE).

Would the broker/salesperson lose his license? Probly not, but, he/they would be reprimanded & the black mark could stay on their record.

I'm done.

Someone file a complaint against the brokers and see if anything happens...

Let me get this straight...you are going to file an ethics complaint because a broker listed an apt as "C4" instead of "4C"??

Brokers are probably the sleaziest people on Earth and you are going to file a complaint on one of them for inverting an apt number?? I hope you do file the complaint because the thought of the receiving clerk laughing in your face as a response would be priceless.

Right, very deceptive ... someone is going to shell out $700 or $800K on a floorplan and not visit the unit to see what it is all about. How long do you whiners think this deception would last? When does the harm turn into actual damage for someone?

Not a qu of proving damages, it's a question of violating the ethics requirements of a license, which is a priviledge, not a right & is subject to review & revocation if warranted.

Goodnite.

oh i get it, complaining just for complaining sake

Is it a 2 bdrm? No. Therefore it's deceptive marketing to list it as a 2 bdrm. There's a reason they have it listed as a 1 bdrm under the correct apt # - because it's a 1 bdrm.

It would be like listing a hamptons house that doesn't have a pool as having a pool just because it has enough land to put a pool in. Have some standards, people.

Dwell - you don't get it do you?

It's not deceptive because you can see the apt number on the door. Therefore, there is NO damage. And if it's not deceptive, therefore, it is not unethical.

You may have been deceived but an objective and sane person wouldn't be. Therefore, there is no ethic violation.

I don't know why I am defending brokers. I honestly think they are a bunch of sleazeballs and read the original post to validate my beliefs only to be let down and disappointed. In this case, it's a ridiculous argument.

Give me some good and truly sleazy broker stories. That's what I want to read...not some apt number being inverted to capture more hits.

Good nite too.

this whole discussion can be summed up in one word that a baby uses, "waaaaaah"

Of all the crap out there, this is what you bitch about. $50bn from Bernie Madoff. Multiples of thousands of subprime mortages sold to unqualified borrowers, deaths in Iraq, ...

and you little bunch of babies are out there whining about 4C or C4 and some broker who's "deception" can last only as long as someone calls to inquire or someone visits the open house to see exactly what is there. Unbelievable.

Trompiloco, have you figured out how Madoff did it?

file a complaint with REBNY.

RE agents are getting desperate.

http://www.randny.com/listings.cfm?ListingID=105620&ListingSource=RPL&PropType=S

Here's a listing showing alternative floor plan layouts: 3 bdrm & 4 bdrm and the broker didn't resort to misleading & deceptive practices by playing around with the apt number. How refreshing.

This broker figured out how to do this despite the short comings of search engines. Must be a genius.

dwell... I hate RE brokers... the way they stopped MLS in NYC for so long...

hey exit2... just go over to the "golf ball" disc... and leave this discussion unadulterated? Shall we?

dwell - does that qualify for either the price choppers or the comps threads? Pretty impressive for a good size 3-bedroom on CPW (even though it looks like the views suck). With the asking rent of $10K, it's also at 15x buy to rent ratio, which should make Stevejhx happy. Who knows what it actually sells or rents for, of course.

Yeah, W67th: What ever happened to the NYC MLS? Does it exist?

newbuyer:
I found this apt on the thread entitled "CALLING WEST 81ST: PRICE PREDICTIONS"
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5984-calling-west-81st-price-predictions

Dwell - You're hopeless. You just don't get it. You show a link where alternative floorplans are shown as ONE listing.

I know you can do it this way. But if it was my apt, I would want the broker to differentiate by using 2 different listings so people shopping only for a 3 bdrm would see AND people shopping for a 4 bedroom ONLY would also see it.

That would maximize my exposure and increase the chances of selling my apt.

The broker did nothing wrong by doing it this way. You may have been "deceived" by it but I wasn't and any sane or reasonable person wouldn't have been. It is clearly listed in the description as a convertible OPTION.

Get over it....it's not that big of a deal. Nothing that warrants even a discussion blog. I want to see some real sleazy broker story.

This discussion blog was a waste of my time. I'm not responding anymore as I have spent enough time arguing about an inverted apt number.

And by the way, I am convinced many of the people here purporting it was "deception" including Tromp and NYC10003 are real estate brokers. Hence, the push to report it to REBNY. You brokers are always out to stab each other in the back. You guys are ruthless competitors. You privately wish for each other to fail while pretending to like each other.

Another thing, this isn't just an "Elliman" trick. Other brokers from different companies use the same technique. The same thing was done by this Bellmarc broker for apt 8F (1 bedroom) and F8 (2 Bedroom Option):

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/363202-coop-201-west-70th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

So all you non-Elliman brokers talking trash on this blog, you don't have anything anymore to stand on. Go and report all these brokers to REBNY if you want, they'll just laugh in your face.