Elliman broker

Yes, it is illegal and you will be prosecuted by the Manhattan District Attorney.

Thanks for nothing, wainley.

I can see the police detectives questioning you and you just giving in and admitting it in exchange for a plea agreement.

No, it is not illegal to contact the sellers agent. I have done it numerous times and the police have yet to break down my door.

You had me going for a minute, but now I know you're just being an arrogant prick.

Everyone knows the police are not authorized to agree to plea deals. Only the DA's office can do that. Don't you watch Law & Order. Thanks for that slip up. Now I know I will not at least be arrested.

You can contact anyone you want. If you signed an agreement with your broker, read it. If you have no agreement, there is no agreement.

You will not be prosecuted by the DA. There would be no crime. At worst it would be a tort, so if there's an agreement you could be sued for breach of contract, but if it happens that the broker withheld a counteroffer - which would be illegal - that is unlikely to happen.

Nothing personal, but for someone who claims to be able to afford Chelsea Stratus, your question sounds a bit naive.

What I was trying to get it is would the broker still be authorized to collect a commission? Would it no longer be considered a direct deal for the sellers? Would the sellers real estate agent even be compelled to answer my question or would she just refer me to my broker?

You will be arrested, you will also be sued. Your credit report will be noted. And you will appear on the police blotter section of the hometown paper where you grew up and where your parents currently live, so you will no longer be welcome back at home. In short, don't do it. Just don't do it.

Chelsea Stratus is not my preferred building. I am not crazy about the area. But it's not high end like some of the more recent buildings. Thank you for your feedback, no matter how rude it was. Maybe in real estate I am naive because it is not my career like you, but I can answer any question regarding my career field. NYC real estate broker have a reputation for being very aggressive and the last thing I need is a complicated real estate transaction with legal challenges.

not my career either.

the cops are busy with Madoff, don't worry!

Listen King, don't be so naive. Also, if you bid 2% below, what was that, $40K below on a $2MM apartment? I think the point your broker might be trying to make is to stop nickle and diming, especially if it is an apartment that you want. If it isn't one that you really want, I'd say you should bid no less than 5% below.

king - i would call the seller's broker and play dumb. Say you were unable to get in touch with your broker and wanted to see if there was a counter. The broker can still get their commission since they were originally involved in the deal. If your broker did not submit your bid, he will feel really dumb and you should confront him. He may be steering you toward chelsea stratus since its an elliman sales team there and who knows, maybe he gets a bigger cut...

it is likely that you signed a sheet at the showing with your broker's name. As the buyer -- the commission split has no impact on you. If your broker never submitted a bid -- call REBNY and the broker's boss and submit a complaint.

Just call the selling broker to confirm. And why are you so surprised that they didn't counter to your below asking price offer when it was priced so competitively to begin with? It is not possible that they received a full asking price from more than one party given the recent steep discount? It's probably more than likely. If you don't want to pay full asking, then move on to the next apartment (and broker for that matter as there seems to be no trust between you and him/her).

I disagree STRONGLY with agentrachel on this one.

If you contact the listing agent directly, what do you really think is going to happen?

They're going to say, "Oh my god, I didn't hear that bid?" and welcome you with open arms?

Even if your bid was not submitted, that's not going to be the response YOU get. No listing agent in their right mind is going to screw over the second-largest brokerage in the city!

Instead, you're going to get a really brusque, "hey, I'm really busy, talk to your agent." The listing agent might then chew out your agent, and possibly your agent's manager, and then maybe your bid moves forward -- the listing agent after all has to act in the best interest of his/her seller -- but you're not going to get a direct deal out of it.

***
I think instead the way to play it is to ask your agent to pass on to you the listing agent's *written response* to your bid. If your bid was submitted in writing (which it should have been, we generally do this stuff by phone with a follow-up email) then there is a copy of it out there in the world.

There may have been a verbal response ("nice try but no cigar, we're getting offers in at asking") in which case it's okay for your broker to poke the listing agent to make that verbal response formal, so he/she can show you.

Either way, this should clear up the doubts in your mind that your listing agent is doing his/her job.

What it is going to do, though, is force an uncomfortable conversation with your broker about why you have been suspicious, and why you don't generally trust him/her, so be prepared for that confrontation.

ali r.
[downtown broker}

Kingdeka, as a broker I would advise you as follows: Firstly, a buyer can be represented by any agent of their choice, if you feel that your current agent has been dishonest with you or does not have your best interests, rather his own, at heart then I would suggest you get a different broker. All it takes is a simple letter from you in writing as to which agent you want to represent you in any given transaction. It frankly does not matter that this particular agent introduced you to the property, despite what they may try and claim. The bottom line, as with any industry, is do not do business with someone you do not trust. If you really do want this apartment my opinion is to immediately find a buyer's broker whom you trust to replace your current one. You could contact the seller's broker directly and explain your concerns, however, their responsibility is to get top dollar for their owner, and especially in this market, I would advise still having a buyers broker who knows what is going on out there. It seems to me that you got a very vague answer from your agent as to why your bid was rejected. What you want are clearcut answers. Do not be fearful to ask for clarity. If you feel awkward doing it yourself find a buyers broker who will get you the answers you want and deserve.

@nycbrokerdax,

While you are entitled as a consumer to use any agent you want, don't you choose your agent at point of offer?

This agent did not merely introduce kingdeka to the property, he/she worked with kingdeka to develop and put in an offer. As such, isn't this existing agent the procuring cause?

I don't know if this analysis is correct or not, but I mention it because if the consumer goes ahead and pursues the property without the Elliman agent, Elliman might have a case for getting paid buyside commission anyway.

Changing buyer's agents and pursuing a new property, that's one thing.

But on this property -- while New York State wants consumers to choose their agents, but I believe in this case in the eyes of the state that might have already happened. If the intention is to throw the existing agent under the bus to save money, it's probably not going to work.

ali r.
{downtown broker]

Front_porch- the elliman agent would not be the procuring cause here, as they do not have an accepted offer nor contracts out, this is where things could get sticky. They may have a case for being the procuring cause should an agreement have been met already. From what kingdeka is saying and with his/her concerns about the agent, and knowing the state of the market, I suspect that he/she is not far off in his/her guesses. I do not think the intention is to throw the agent under the bus to save money, I think the intention here is that kingdeka wants an specific apartment and feels that there is something shady going on with regards to his/her offer. I did recommend that kingdeka find a different buyers agent.
In terms of legalities, even in situations where an accepted offer has been reached, the state has time and time again sided with the buyers right to choose their representation. The only "dangerous ground" is once there is a signed contract

@nycbrokerdax

That clarifies a lot, thanks!

ali r.
{downtown broker}

front porch i like you:) I like someone who has opinions and expresses them in a well thought out manner, without personal attacks, which is unusual here, and not only that, you the ability to take criticism or should i say correction, in a form and move on with it graciously. I am happy to see posts from someone like you who i think is rational and has peoples best interests at heart. Just thought I would share the love:)

Just to update those that contributed and may be interested...
My broker insisted that he submitted the offer and that it probably went for full asking. I had to trust him, because he knew we liked it.
He updated us on the status and said that there is a contract on it full full asking price, and as we didn't receive a counter for a fairly close offer, it most likely was a direct customer by the selling broker, and being a full offer, there was no need to counter.

We're back waiting now until after the holidays when there will be more inventory to choose from. Patience, hopefully, is a virtue.

told u all the sky wasn't falling!

Yes, you have proven it. One anecdote overrides all the market data saying 75% decline in volume and 20% median decline in sales.

Is it any wonder why folks think brokers are liars and/or idiots?

@nycbrokerdax -- thanks so much for the love! I appreciate being able to learn new things on this forum.

I just listed a co-op on the corner of Greenwich and Perry if you've got a customer for it -- WBFP in LR, 9' by 10' BR with deco FP, $519k.

ali r.
{downtown broker}