Poll: Americans continue to buy Chinese goods?

So the question is why not buy Made in America or Made in the EU?

and dont forget careful of this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUkbdjetlY8

Americans will always be interested in price over quality. That's never going to change. You can look at the airline industry for a non-China example of that.

China will have to continue to fund our debt because the alternative is the complete crash of their economy. China's slowdown this quarter puts the final nail in the laughable de-coupling theory - their economy is completely dependent upon us and will be for decades. To believe otherwise is to believe that the tail wags the dog.

if i were china with 1.2B people i'd use 1 of those 2 trillion for internal consumption model. If 300M americans spend until they are enslaved in debt, then imagine if 500M chinese spent 75% of what they earned and all of the 1T gov't stimulus check.

Unfortunately JGR, i think the China-USA relationship is heading for an end.

The U.S. consumer is broke, Obamanomics 1T stimulus package will go to payoff DEBT, not new consumption. The endgame is near dear friend. Yes China will be deeply hurt at first, but can quickly recover as they have manufacturing bases and develop new relationships (trade) with Brazil, Canada, Mexico, EU, etc.

If they don't have to give the U.S. billions each week, They all start driving Mercedes and MCmansions won't be far behind.

Maybe it's time for the U.S. to go back to hard work, manufacturering, farming, etc. AFterall, we're going to LOSE our status of Financial Capital. What's left???? Double digit of debt, owed by 10's of trillions to foreigners. And what's worse? U.S. dollar global reserve on the line...

Are we nearin check-mate on the board, the peasants can no longer protect the king.

Price over quality? Look at our auto industry. US made means crap. But of course, have some pride in that crap.

made in EU?
this is supposed to help in some way vs Made in China?
Lost in genetics?

for me it's quality vs. quantity...and imo alot of the Chinese junk we import is nothing more than junk. if we lived with the motto quality instead of quantity we'd be more conservative shoppers.

i remember the days when wal-mart was proud to say "made in america" signs all over the store. These days Wal-Mart not only killed all the tiny boutiques "next door" but also eliminated our entire manufacturing sector as Wal-Made in China...

This Depression is truly going to be severe. Our nation has been looted to the max. What do we do anymore? A bunch of excel spread sheets and stare at computers. Sure we get paid 100K plus, but isn't that much like the housing bubble one big delusion waiting to bust?

Think about it for a second. How many people in their 20's report to a job where 6 out of the 8 hours they do "junk" work? Just have a job to operate within the system..But our system has become terribly flawed.

I'm sad to say, but within 2 years, the 100K jobs for looking at Facebook or reading gossip from Gawker half the day will be gone.

Reality is quickly approaching, the Chinese who own us, ever so silent have got to be laughing...

If we had a more viable auto industry with good designs and an efficient labor force, we wouldn't have to bail out the auto industry. I've know many die hard buy American folks who have converted to imports because of poor quality. If the problem was not bred from lazy and greedy American, tell me who's fault it was. America is a land of entitlement. Labor unions skew actual market and economic forces. We should blame ourselves for letting this happen.

Counciler, I doubt you are true to your word on quality vs, quantity. Tell us more about how you avoid buying Chinese products.

auto industry -- no direct competition with China
parts -- may be
see if you can buy a product not made in China:
Lenovo
Sony
GE
...
the list is endless now....
The basic problem is that they invested in modernizing industry and we did not.
The "captains of industry" in the US need to be shot -- they pursued a model of outsourcing instead of building their companies
If the US companies had focused on improving productivity in manufacturing here the Walmart slogan could still be made in the USA.
Take Korea -- quality and price
EU -- there is quality and there is also hype
Much of what you are going to buy with the EU brands is also coming from China
BMW and Mercedes have maintenance records that are pathetic compared to Japanese and Korean cars

There is no reason that the US companies could not do what the Koreans and Japs did or EU. They just chose not to.

"if i were china with 1.2B people i'd use 1 of those 2 trillion for internal consumption model. If 300M americans spend until they are enslaved in debt, then imagine if 500M chinese spent 75% of what they earned and all of the 1T gov't stimulus check."

So that's $833 per person. That's an impressive amount for China but by doing so you have forced the devaluation of the US currency which will kill any exports. The damage from killing exports to their greatest market would be far more devastating than $833/person. Just look at all the damage from a slowdown. And stimulus checks don't create long-term wealth creation. Look at the history of US stimulus packages for that.

"Unfortunately JGR, i think the China-USA relationship is heading for an end."

Maybe. Globalization in general may be at an end. Certainly, US consumption will never reach the rate it was in 2007 again. Except it will be China and the developing countries who feels the most pain on this one. A tightening of the belt in the US is painful for many, but stopping all forward progress when you were growing at >10% a year is like hitting a wall.

"The U.S. consumer is broke, Obamanomics 1T stimulus package will go to payoff DEBT, not new consumption."

Its looking like a Keynesian economics claptrap with spending on a bunch of infrastructure that will be inefficient and be far too late. Either way, it's not going to lead to new consumption because it will be inefficient (union wages) and too late.

"The endgame is near dear friend. Yes China will be deeply hurt at first, but can quickly recover as they have manufacturing bases and develop new relationships (trade) with Brazil, Canada, Mexico, EU, etc."

Brazil, Canada, Mexico? You are talking about small players on the world economic scale my friend. The EU will never allow Chinese trade to rise to a significant enough level due to their innate protectionist policies. There's nothing that is going to replace US consumption, even in it's weakened state.

"If they don't have to give the U.S. billions each week, They all start driving Mercedes and MCmansions won't be far behind."

They just discovered cars a few years ago :) Come on, we have a long way to go before China is a "rich" country. Their GDP growth is phenomenal, but most of it is being funneled into generating more GDP growth. Before they can become a rich country they need to funnel their GDP into greater prosperity. And that's hard when your economy is not yet large enough to support 1.3 billion people. So their strategy is to push for more growth because the alternative is legions of Chinese left in poverty.

"Maybe it's time for the U.S. to go back to hard work, manufacturering, farming, etc."

Bah. I hate this argument. It sets up the idea that a blue collar day of work is greater than a white collar day of work. Which is complete baloney, one is a knowledge based job and the other is turning a wrench. What kind of workers would you rather have in your economy? Those that use their brain to solve difficult problems or those that punch out after 8 hours?

And regardless. The genie is out. A blue collar job is never ever ever going to work in the US again. It's too expensive and our economy has grown beyond the need for it. We should instead be encouraging this transition instead of saving jobs are no longer viable (automakers).

"AFterall, we're going to LOSE our status of Financial Capital. What's left???? Double digit of debt, owed by 10's of trillions to foreigners. And what's worse? U.S. dollar global reserve on the line...
Are we nearin check-mate on the board, the peasants can no longer protect the king."

Oh absolutely. The dollar is very sick. But with everyone else printing around the world we are still the safe harbor. Remember when everyone talked about the Euro becoming the new world reserve currency? Well, look what happened to that talk after the first recession. Some are questioning it's survival.

@jgr

unless our u.s. consumer model will continue to be a driver for the next few decades i'd expect to see major transition in the jobs where you get 100K for basically opening an excel spread sheet, looking and useless numbers, computing useless information and between reading your emails half the day. Those jobs are toast and should have been for some time.

the only thing holding us up is that we have a u.s. dollar global reserve. That some how we struct a deal with the Arabs where we give them X amount per oil barrel and they recycle the rest into funding our debt (through T-bills).

I'm guessing we have a similar model with China, We will set up your factory, buy your goods, and in turn you invest your reserves to fund our deficit (forced to purchase Tbills).

Now imagine if the dollar plummets on the market sometime in 2009 and foreigners run on the dollar. yes a severe global recession is in order, but a U.S. Depression cannot be avoided. We will be the most lonely country in the world. With a broken down system, terribly flawed by the way, and no one to trade with since the world will refuse our dollar.

All we really have is the backing of u.s. dollar global reserve which forces nations to pay for our standard of living. As soon as this breaks, which it will inevitably all hell will break lose.
A U.s. dollar global reserve was ideal prior to 71, and prior when the U.S. made up a large portion of global GDP, but it can no longer retain it's position. And when Bretton Woods 2 comes crashing down WATCH OUT.

This is a serious warning as the breakdown of BW2 will derail China, but absolutely collapse our previleged system.

"unless our u.s. consumer model will continue to be a driver for the next few decades i'd expect to see major transition in the jobs where you get 100K for basically opening an excel spread sheet, looking and useless numbers, computing useless information and between reading your emails half the day. Those jobs are toast and should have been for some time."

Sure. All non-productive and even some productive jobs are toast in a recession. When everyone is making money, a rising tide lifts all boats.

However. That doesn't characterize any white collar jobs I know of and I detect some class envy in your post. Certainly not at my office where we are perpetually short-staffed in good times and bad. Try running a software team with just Excel (or Project), it ain't gonna happen :)

"the only thing holding us up is that we have a u.s. dollar global reserve. That some how we struct a deal with the Arabs where we give them X amount per oil barrel and they recycle the rest into funding our debt (through T-bills).

I'm guessing we have a similar model with China, We will set up your factory, buy your goods, and in turn you invest your reserves to fund our deficit (forced to purchase Tbills)."

Yes. That is the bargain we've struct with almost all nations after WWII. Is it a good deal for them? Certainly it has been. Without the US market, the commodity and manufacturing economies would be toast. I'm not defending this as an ideal setup...but that's what it is.

"Now imagine if the dollar plummets on the market sometime in 2009 and foreigners run on the dollar. yes a severe global recession is in order, but a U.S. Depression cannot be avoided. We will be the most lonely country in the world. With a broken down system, terribly flawed by the way, and no one to trade with since the world will refuse our dollar. "

It's not going to happen in 2009. If you are making a bet on a dollar crash you are going to lose big in 2009. There is no country that is not trying to reflate their economies right now and a hyperinflationary event cannot occur when every country is performing the same actions. It especially cannot occur to the global reserve currency when everyone (BRIC, Middle East, Japan) has a vested interest in making sure it does not. You can make a case for gold (I wouldn't though...), but you can't make a case for the dollar crashing.

And make no mistake. I find our country's treatment of it's debt disgusting and with a $50 trillion in debt & unfunded SS/Medicare a lower standard of living is coming sooner rather than later. But talking about a US dollar crash in 2009 is way ahead of the curve and viewing our country's problems in isolation.

@jgr, i think you are overly optimistic on the current environment.

I project a hard landing for the U.S. dollar in 2009. I don't see how you avoid a U.S. depression. You make several good points but i'm afraid that by the Ides of March you will see the DOW at new lows. And by Halloween of 2009 we will be down 40% from where we closed Xmas Eve.

I think the ace in the hole we have is the rush toward the "stability" of US currency. In bad times, we look better...

"i think you are overly optimistic on the current environment."

I think you are conflating my analysis of the US dollar with my view on the economy. I'm one of the few who does believe we are headed toward repeating the lost decade Japan had.

" I don't see how you avoid a U.S. depression."

I agree. Certainly in unemployment terms we will be in a depression by 1H 2010.

"You make several good points but i'm afraid that by the Ides of March you will see the DOW at new lows."

Most likely March or soon after. When the Q1 data starts piling up we are going to find out its a lot worse than the most bearish of estimates.

Again though, that has little to do with a dollar crash and you are still viewing our condition in isolation. When every other country is in a recession, when every country is reflating, when the only sovereign debt the world trusts is US Government debt, when debt everywhere is still being written down faster than the Government is printing, there is zero chance that the dollar crashes.

globalization= sweat shops and camps set up by international based u.s. corporations to manipulate the 3rd world at the expense of shareholder profits increasing.

Is this the way the world should be? Is this the way the U.S. should manipulate those who are underdeveloped and not as globally educated.

with a global reserve comes global responsibility.

It won't be long before Iran and Russia start trading oil in other currencies than dollars...when that happens, and China/and other middle eastern states unpeg to the dollar "boom"...

the only thing holding up the u.s. dollar is that oil is traded in dollars. this however, like all things may infact soon come to an end. When European nationals call for a "new financial order", they're calling for a new international global reserve.

"Is this the way the world should be? Is this the way the U.S. should manipulate those who are underdeveloped and not as globally educated"

OK. You are getting a bit emotional now and this doesn't have anything to do with a dollar crash. Frankly, I could give a shit about the morality of it or not. I live in the US, not a 3rd world country.

"It won't be long before Iran and Russia start trading oil in other currencies than dollars...when that happens, and China/and other middle eastern states unpeg to the dollar "boom"..."

The only credible alternative is the Euro. And while that was certainly gaining status before 2008, people have strong questions about how long it will survive now. Even if we do change to the Euro for commodities, this is the sort of thing that takes decades to play out. You cannot just switch reserve currencies overnight. And you can bet the US government will fight it every step of the way, prolonging any inevitable adoption.

The Eurozone is expanding as we speak. Sweden and Denmark will join in 2009 and I believe the UK, facing a currency collapse of it's own will join the Eurozone in 2010. The eurozone is expanding rapidly, and this crisis leaves more nations wanting to be part of the EURO.

The rush is on between U.S. and Russia as who will supply the EU with energy. Russia wants a pipeline through Georgia/Ukraine, and the U.S. is busy building in Afganistan. the problem the u.s. faces is the pipeline must go through Iran. Iran has also been neglecting the dollar.

Odds Obama goes to war with Iran? 99%.

the 700B "bank bailout" =Iran and Afganistan.

excutive pay on wall street in the "small money" , follow the "big money"...

counciler, please tell us how you support buying non-Chinese made goods. I'm a proud supporter of globalization. There is an arguement that buying these goods supports poor working conditions and destruction of the environment. Think of how the US was as we industrialized with toxins in our water, chemical releases, pollution, etc. These poorer countries will eventually have work condition and environmental standards as they develop economically. At this point, these third world economies are just happy to have the jobs and others already have decent working conditions (remember iphone girl?). Don't forget that the US was at that point before as well with production as a priority over quality of life issues. Unions are also good to a certain point. The labor unions in the US have exceeded their usefulness. What warrants $70/hr labor rates? Ok, that number is inflated, but that is the work of unions preserving benefits for retirees. How much to union plumbers cost? Union electricians? This blue collar workforce makeas more than most white collar, college educated workers!

It's very different.

Today

A. China knows the dangers of polluting our world/environment where as in the early 1900's the world was not to the same extent in good knowledge of pollutants (and the destructions to nature within).

B. The GM bailout is a hush hush to payoff union workers and outsource more GM/F work to new emerging nations. Ex. new GM plant in Russia/China, etc.

C. The entire United States has been looted of it's manufacturing base. The real winners out of this crisis will be the east.

D. Please do not tell the world or 12 year old kids getting 19 cents an hour and a bowl of rice every 4 hours for each dozen pair of Air Jordans he clues together for Nike and it's shareholders.

Globalization will goes in circles. I agree the u.s. has helped pave the wave for new players to emerge. However, now that they have emerged they no longer will need their parents, and now that the new players are near adulthood who says they will obey laws put force by their parents.

Get Ready for a New World.

And in this new world, the upcoming decade maybe the Chinese will be the consumers while they'll have us being the manufacturers. Maybe they'll give 2 hotdogs every 4 hours to American workers.

Afterall 2 Trillion in reserves (held by China) can buy many years of HotDogs. Guess on Holidays they may upgrade us to Burgers.

This is what happens when greed takes order. This is what happens as imbalances bring transition. This is what will be of us post Depression.

counciler, wtf dude. This isn't even rational speak anymore. Just wild rants.

newaccount claims China should not comply with international environmental standards....sorry if we got slightly carried away on the subject. but i re-int that our entire financial system is insolvent.

@JGR, i'm not opposed to china, i'm long several chinese funds.

But i feel bad, because 300M americans, most of them are good people. Although not as worldly as europeans (outside of manhattan) they're still very good, caring, and helpful people in this country.

The upcoming depression will rattle many households and our standard of living will sharply decline.

"newaccount claims China should not comply with international environmental standards"

counciler, you are an idiot! Did you get laid off lately? Why the bitterness?

So again, tell us how you live your life avoiding Chinese goods?

"But i feel bad, because 300M americans, most of them are good people. Although not as worldly as europeans (outside of manhattan) they're still very good, caring, and helpful people in this country."

No not all Americans are good people. For one, you are not. Americans are known to be selfish, arrogant, ignorant, and yes, unworldly, just like you. I'm not sure what your rant is about, but why knock a country that is harder working and does what it takes to survive be it Vietnam, India, Somalia, Guatemala, Mexico, or Khazakstan. Times are tough and your sense of entitlement obvious.

Now pick up that chin and do something good for your family. You finally realized opening up Excel doesn't yield you $100k a year plus bonus because any high school kid can replace you. The easy money fell hard and fast. Retool and lose the 'tude.