Looking for a broker for a 3 BR in the UWS

whats ur price range?

Hi, Pyxis. Neither my old job nor my recent hobbies have involved much contact with brokers who focus on rentals. In a slow market, I don't think you really need one, but that's just my opinion.

My advice... maybe sure you go with a broker who says "u" and "ur".

I agree with West81st. You really don't need a broker to find a decent rental these days. Not sure what you mean by 'insider knowledge'; most listings are available on sites like this one. Why get mugged for a broker fee when you can easily do a search yourself?

Here is a broker's site, for one example, and I am disinterested. Too long a story for me to go into here, but I point out one broker among many; I haven't seen his listing on streeteasy; originally found on NYT.com. You did not specify a price range. I think the photos are true, which among rental listings, are sometimes questionable. It is true that you don't need a broker, but I believe there are "better" rental units that are handled by brokers, and even if you find it on your own, if it has a broker, you will be subject to his/her fee. I take it you are not interested in the regular rental buildings, (the ones you can walk into and inquire,) for some reason. Just want to add that there is also nothing wrong with paying a broker a fee. I have done it both ways.

http://www.squareonenyc.com/index.cfm?page=searchresults

the site is not perfect but it's workable.

I can see how SE discussions will become the GO TO place for brokers to sell their amazing services. For rentals, take an hour to walk around your neighborhood, ask the doorman of the bldgs you are interested in for the # of the management company and contact them directly. Some big mgmt companies are BLDG, Broadwall, Rockrose, Related, etc..

Im out of rentals game and its because I think it is a very unfair thing to charge a renter 15% of 1 years rent for the right to connect a manager with a renter. But, times is money and a business was created out of it, so be it. I didnt pay a rental broker fee when I was a trader and I didnt pay a rental broker fee when I got into real estate. Just call the big management companies directly. Walk around and you can get a list of many mgmt companies in say an hour or two's time. To me that is worth potentially saving thousands in fees.

UD's advice is very good, though keep in mind that knocking on doors won't necessarily save you a broker fee. I found our current rental three years ago by canvassing the UWS neighborhood we wanted to live in, checking in with doormen and supers to inquire about vacancies. Found an amazing apartment after pounding the pavement for several days.

Trouble was, we STILL had to pay a fee to the building's 'exclusive' broker, even though she did not much more than hand over some keys. She may also have run the background check on us for the landlord. But that was about it. It was worth it to us because the apartment was actually quite a good deal (a spacious 2-bed, 2-bath for which we're now paying $3500, which I consider somewhat below market for this area) but still, it wasn't fun coughing up that broker fee.

We just chalked it up to the cost of doing business.

bramstar - thanks for sharing! I did rentals for like 8 months in 2004 when I started, and thats all it took to get out of that part of the market.

Although paying 15% is no fun, lots of people do not have the time to walk around and ask doormen for info on availability (we did not this past summer unfortunately). I agree you should start with the big management companies (Related, Rockrose, etc) and use this site and nybits.com, but sometimes a broker helps (3BR in those big buildings are often scarce and very expensive btw). Lots of buildings do have exclusive agents and you may still end up paying the fee to them even if you find the building on your own. We used a Corcoran agent to find our current classic 6 on W. 88th (I actually found the apt. on SE and saw it through our agent - did not cost us any more since the building had its own agent who required a fee), so it's not all bad if you really don't have the time and can afford some of a fee (you can always try and negotiate it down). Good luck.

Well then you're one of the good guys, UD. I'd expect there are lots of brokers out there who look at that kind of transaction with glee -- a quick buck for very little effort.

To be fair, I imagine the flip side can be frustrating--showing a client endless apartments for weeks on end only to get a couple grand (if you're lucky and the client actually rents anything from you). So perhaps it all evens out...

sales is much more time consuming, service oriented, individualized of a transaction and is much more work than most people think. The industry has very low barriers to entry and can be done full time, part time, or if you simply have good connections or large networking reach. The industry has a bad reputation because of the way this market is structured and the options that are at your disposal.

I have spent countless hours with some clients that never ended up buying, but then again, I was part of the blame/reason for it ending this way, so you cant complain as a broker. Its good business and they always end up referring a friend or family over down the road. Its just a very uncertain revenue stream when you are not established/experimenting with new model, not knowing when your buyer will pull trigger and go through with the deal. Im more of a buy side broker, so we can talk hours about this.

I think this industry will evolve a better one for the consumer as we enter the recovery phase; whenever that may be.

starfish - I've tried it both ways, and I find that using a broker does not save you any time. They send you crap, take you to crap apartments, make things more difficult to schedule, etc.

I find (unfortunately) that the time invested in the search is directly proportional to the quality of the deal you get. You can certainly find an ok apartment (with or without a broker) with minumim time invested. Or you can find the best apartment/deal with a ton of time to search, walk around, talk to management companies, see apts, etc. Or somewhere in between. Depends on your priorities, how much time and patience you have, how important getting the best deal is, etc. Does not depend on having a broker to help you, in my experience.

Plus, if there's an exclusive broker, you'd much rather be dealing with them, than have them AND your own broker - more mouths to feed, worse deal for you and landlord. We found a few of the exclusive broker deals as well, and went through the broker in those instances.

{{more mouths to feed, worse deal for you and landlord. We found a few of the exclusive broker deals as well, and went through the broker in those instances.}}

There may be more mouths to feed, but it's all coming out of the same 15% fee. Won't cost you, the renter, more. Of course, it may be more difficult to negotiate a few points off the fee (which we were able to do in our case) if more than one broker is splitting the pot.

pyxis, I'd recommend Kris Kamajian - she helped me find a great rental on the UWS and charged one month's rent (8.3% instead of the usual 15). She only covers that area, so she knows it quite well. I would also strongly suggest you avoid any rentals managed by HR LLC.

pyxis- I had a great broker that saved me a ton of time and money! I think they are taking new clients, let me know if you want their information and I will send it to you. He lives in the UWS and knows the area very very well. He got me an off market deal where I only paid him half a fee......

I think Jim Circosta at Citi-Hab is a hard working, no nonsense agent with very good rental experienc & knowledge. I usually give him any rental inquiries that come my way.

15% is not usual. It's the headline. Negotiable most of the time, very often to 1 month. Obviously less negotiable when it has to be split between multiple people.

"Won't cost you, the renter, more" This is the same argument that there's no cost to use an agent when the landlord pays the fee. Or no cost to use a buy-side agent when purchasing. Middlemen cost money, period. The In some instances they may be worth all/some of that money, but I just don't think helping you find a rental is one of those instances.

And for the record, ski1980 is the same guy that said he got a special deal on the condo he bought. I guess he and/or his brokers have "in's" everywhere that us mere mortals are not privy to.

Thanks for all the input. I am under the impression that all NO FEE deals are still done with brokers, only the landlord pays the fee to the broker, not me. That is why I thought I might as well get a broker.

Not true -

reprinted -

AVOID BROKERS AND THEIR FEES - GO DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR RENTAL NEEDS. BROKERS TEND TO TAKE YOU TO SEE THESE NO-FEE APARTMENTS FIRST AS THEY EARN 100% OF YOUR 15% BROKER'S FEE. HUSH...HUSH... THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU IT'S A NO-FEE RENTAL PROPERTY :( NOR WILL THEY REPRESENT THAT PRIOR TO SEEING THE APARTMENT. SO IF YOU NEED TO RENT, CHECK OUT THE RENTAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT WEBSITES AND CALL THEM FOR UPDATED LISTINGS. SAVE YOURSELF THAT 15% TO BUY YOURSELF NEW FURNITURE OR HAVE A MOVE-IN WELCOME PARTY FOR FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

Excellent “BIG-TIME” Manhattan Rental Property Management:

Rose (www rosenyc com)
Related Rentals (www relatedrentals com)
Equity Residental (www eqr com)
Rockrose Management (www rockrosenyc com) [mostly chelsea, village, financial district, downtown condos]
Sky Management (www skymanagement com)
Glenwood Managment (www glenwoodnyc com)
BLDG Management Co. 115 E 92nd St New York, NY 10128 (212) 722-4931
Brodsky Management, Inc (www brodskyorg com)
Maclowe Management (www macklowe com) [condos below 60th street]
Urban Associates – 400 W 59th St # 3, New York, NY (212) 245-1870

Above average property management (mostly prewar lowrise to a few postwar)
ATA Enterprise (www ataenterprises com)

Good luck

pyxis, your impression is incorrect. There are some no-fee buildings that only go through brokers, but they are, by far, the exception. The vast majority have internal leasing offices, and in most cases you're better off dealing with them directly. Manhattanfox's post lists many of them, you can find others on www.nybits.com, elsewhere on line, or by walking around the neighborhood.

Oh, one other thought. I know 52nd is not technically UWS, but if you'd consider that area, Metro on 53rd and 8th has small but very nice real 3-bedrooms that I think they're desperate to move. There are also 3-bedrooms for very good prices on 67th and Amsterdam (I forget the name and address of the building), but the construction noise across the street is an issue.

Update: after seeing a lot of overpriced apartments with brokers for one week, I just walked around the neighborhood and asked doormen for availabilities. Within 20 minutes I found my dream apartment and was able to negotiate 550$ off the rent. No fee.
Here is a long list of all management companies in NY: http://howtorentinnyc.com/review.php

Next time I would start with the management companies, then talk to the doormen. And then if everything failed and I am desperate I would go to a broker.

Thanks for your input.

pyxis and all - how exactly do you narrow down what buildings to stop into? Did you have a very small area of UWS that you were looking at? We'll be in the market for a 3 bedroom (fingers crossed) this summer and I find the idea of pounding the pavement a bit daunting. I'm all for cutting out the broker fee (theoretically) and doing the work myself. Is there a specific strategy that one should use? Or do you just start knocking on doors randomly?!? I presume you wouldn't want to weed buildings out based on the exterior. So, where do the clueless start?

Also, re: finding listings on your own. Is streeteasy truly comprehensive? Or, are you at an advantage going with a broker b/c they could maximize the possibilities?

Would LOVE input since I was going to post this question myself in the not too distant future.

We were looking for a certain school zone, so we are talking about 10 blocks only.
Regarding Streeteasy: no it is not comprehensive for rentals (yes for sales).
Regarding brokers: they really consumed my time showing me apartments that were not what I specified. Once I found something I liked, the brokers were standing in my way and I could not negotiate. You have more negotiating power when you are present and the other side sees that you are real and a good fit for the building. If they deal with a tenant's broker that is not the case. Do brokers maximize the possibilities? Probably, but the market is a renter's market now. There are enough empty apartments out there, so take advantage of it.

uwsmom - I second pyxis's view having gone through numerous apartment searches - brokers don't save you time, they waste it. See my post above (middle of the thread). And I don't think brokers maximize the possibilities. Not once, ever, did I have a broker show/email me anything I couldn't have found on my own.

pyxis, would you mind sharing some impressions of the market, along with maybe links to best deals you found, and/or description of apartment you found and price (whatever you don't mind sharing)? We went through a similar search in nov/dec, and I'm curious what you found that was similar or different. Thanks.

Hi.

A good broker will save you time on your search and will have resources to listings that are not available to the non-broker community. There is no comprehensive website or listing of available apartments in Manhattan.

I'm a broker and have lived on the Upper West Side for 18 years and am raising my family here, so I know the community well. I meet with my clients and interview them to a get a clear picture of what their needs are, so that I can find them a true home in the city. I conduct most of our search through e-mail, so they don't have to drag around the city visiting apartments that they have no intention of living in. I appreciate that my clients' time is valuable and that they are paying me to do a service that saves them time. A good broker also has inside knowledge about the neighborhood and buildings that you are looking in.

That said, if you can find a great apartment without paying a broker fee, more power to you.

"A good broker will save you time on your search and will have resources to listings that are not available to the non-broker community."

That's what every broker has told me and they've all lied. On both counts. Maybe you're the exception, but you'll forgive me for being skeptical. Ali, Noah, or other trustworthy brokers on this site - are there rental listings that are only accessible to brokers like Joanmommy claims?

newbuyer99: I think the silence after your question gives you the answer.

Anyone know if NY Times online RE listings are comprehensive for rentals?

Newbuyer-- thanks for "trustworthy" -- that's high praise.

I have a sub-specialty in luxury rentals -- people tend to call me when they're coming in from out of town and want a downtown loft, or want someone to take care of their kids -- but I can't even begin to emphasize how NOT worth it they usually are to a broker.

If the client is paying $10K a month and a 12% commission, that's a pot of $14.4K that has to get split four ways -- so the renter's agent tying up the better part of two weeks, sometimes even as much as six, for less than four thousand dollars.

I know it's a lot of money to the renter (I, too, have rented and paid brokers' fees) but it's not a lot of money to pay a busy agent to step away from his/her sales clients.

So you get stuck in this awful feedback loop where the agents don't provide much service, and then the clients get justly mad . . .

That said, from time to time a broker has a deal in their pocket that isn't quite listed . . .for example, I can get you a low-floor three-bedroom in Trump World (east side) for $10K.

So, bottom line: I think NY Times probably covers 85% of inventory; use it if you have time. If you're really busy, or a relo, use a rental broker or a neighborhood specialist, and ask them if they've got anything hidden.

For your part, realize that the agent is going to try to make short work of you, and will show you their best things up front, so if you don't like any of the first five or six places you see, don't prolong the agony.

ali r.
[downtown broker]

uwsmom- nytimes web is filled with a lot of "garbage" rental listings, 100 brokers advertising the same apt.-combing through those postings will drive you insane. If you want to find an apt on your own I suggest you look at the Sunday Times (the physical paper) & look at the larger ads that are posted by the management companies. Right now most landlords are paying all or part of the brokers fee so it's highly unlikely that you'll have to pay a 15% fee even if you use a broker. (Using a broker you'll pay at most 1/2 month). The advantage of using a broker is that they get updates from all the management companies everyday, whereas if you walk into buildings & call mgmt companies on your own, they tell you they don't have anything available when 2 days after you call something comes up. Granted there are so many shady, horrible rental brokers out there but at the same time there are a few of us that are actually honest & knowledgeable.
sophia.anzaroot@elliman.com
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/mainsite/agents/agents.aspx?BID=SOPA

Hello everyone

I have anormous land and i have an amasing project. Looking for an investor.

Who can work for me to find investor together?

Get back to me as soon as possible
Burduliia@rambler.ru