Weird Sales Tactic from the "Luxury Loft Team"

That's a technique that they started in California. If I saw that history I'd bid $1.5 million. They obviously need to sell it fast.

if fair value is $2.2...this is a decent strategy

These brokers are morons, or maybe the seller is a pain in the ass. The price history shows what happens when unrealistic expectations and stubborness meet the onslaught of a bear market and pending nasty construction project nearby. The St. Vincent's Hosp. expansion will eventually go through. I don't think the hospital will be allowed to fail--it is needed too much because it is all that serves an huge swath of Manhattan. The project, however it is eventually scaled, will be years long and devastate nearby buildings' values in the shortrun and potentially forever if a given apt's view becomes a hospital tower instead of roofs of GV or if what were sunny apts become dark caves in the shadow of the new buildings.

Adding to the problems is the poor current layout and massive renovation that will be needed. Probably $500,000-$750,000 for top end finishes--multiple baths, kitchen, reconfigure most of the place. And what do you get? A nice 2-bedroom or sliced and diced ungracious 3+ beds. For millions and millions. This is a white elephant. And what do the agents do between Sept '08 and Dec'08 as the market sours and prices all over begin their slide--already 10-20% off peak? They do NOTHING. Now they lower it $100K. This is stupid. Do they even have a plan?

"I don't think the hospital will be allowed to fail"

It's already been approved by Landmarks.

Hello All....
Apt_Boy asalaam alaykum... best strategy is to not bid at all :)
Kylewest... no plan whatsoever... just taking some mariachi lessons as far as I can tell;
steveie.... you'll be rich in bankruptcy... that's the only growth business;
patient09 => let's try patient10 :)
Gonna try sledding next to 78th and 5th... see ya...

kylewest,

this apartment is a serious problem, and may be in serious trouble, but your assessment is off-base. you think a pending construction project at 11th street and 7th avenue is destroying the value of an apartment at 5th Avenue and 12th street? I mean, if you think that this building is being wrecked by the St. Vincent's project then you must think that the entire village from the gold coast to the river is being wrecked. that just doesn't make any sense. this apartment does not look at st. vincent's, it isn't near st. vincent's, and it really has nothing to do with st. vincent's. the gold coast is not in any particular trouble, just the same bad situation as every other neighborhood.

as for the moron brokers and idiot sellers, that's clearly the case. i am sure they like to think that this apartment can bask in the reflected glory of its fabulous building and location. but it is a cobbled-together no-view combination with a horrendous layout in terrible condition. i do think that at the right price it will be great for someone--even without a view, i think that a very nice three bedroom can be created. but you are looking at $1 million to do it right, so i agree with west81st, that apartment should garner no more than $1.5,

you guys are missing the point: This IS a decent sales strategy. 1st, they are screwed, they know that. They have a number in mind, which is way lower than 2.716. They throw a range which includes a number lower than the list. It only takes one sucker who loves the apt. Broker says if you really love it, show us a bid. Buyer says, but its overpriced and I can't even afford the lower end of the range. Broker says, well what would you pay and can afford. Buyer say $2.1. Broker, ok, just for you because you love it so much I will pass it on. Two days later seller accepts and laughs. Broker and seller give each other high fives and say shit, that dump was only worth 1.4, great job broker.

wow patient, brilliant strategy! i can only think of about 3,000 problems with it. but let's just start with the most obvious few.

1. IT HASN'T WORKED. That thing has been on the market for about a century, so you'd think most of the people who might fall in love with it have already seen it.

2. Many of the people who might consider buying it for 1.2 or 1.4 or 1.8 or even 2 million are not going to consider looking at it because they see it as out of their range. Hell, i am open to buying something for up to $3 million and initially I didn't look at it because I thought it was too far out of my range.

3. They are openly signaling their desperation.

4. This is not the sort of apartment people fall in love with.

Rather than the convoluted, failing, absurd strategy you suggest, how about this. Take the apartment off the market. Get a new broker. Clean the damn thing. Then list it for somewhere under $2 million, get an entire new universe of folks in to look at it, people who never would have gone to see it at the old price, and hope for the best.

happ:
"Rather than the convoluted, failing, absurd strategy you suggest, how about this. Take the apartment off the market. Get a new broker. Clean the damn thing. Then list it for somewhere under $2 million, get an entire new universe of folks in to look at it, people who never would have gone to see it at the old price, and hope for the best."

I tend to agree with you, but, I am trying to keep it simple. There exist a whole universe of buyers that will overpay huge. All they need to think is that they are getting a deal. How many times on SE do hear about people asking if they should bid 20% or 30% off the ask!. We KNOW that concept is irrelevant and stupid. But it happens. It doesn't matter what the number is 10, 20, 30% of all purchases every month recently and in the coming months are fools that are overpaying. And the beauty of apt selling is that you only need to sucker ONE of those dumbasses. This strategy could work to find ONE.

patient,

this is crazy. of course the strategy "could work to find ONE." ANY strategy COULD work. the question is whether there is a high likelihood that it WILL work. i totally disagree with you that 10, 20, or 30% of current purchases are by people overpaying. it is more like 70%, with the remaining 30% composed of people who are selectively and aggressively hunting for bargains. but then, notice how few current purchases there actually are. if you are one of the lucky few who finds some fool willing to overpay you for your apartment in a declining market, congratulations. but for the vast, vast majority of sellers right now, the only way they will get their apartments sold is to get their heads out of the clouds and price realistically. this universe of buyers who just want to be reassured that they are getting a deal but will pay anything must be part of the army of irish carpenters and side-liners just waiting in the wings to resuscitate the new york real estate market.

I do have to say this is more interesting than the usual "it is cheaper to rent/buy" crap that fills this site 75% of the time

I'm not sure they have to sell. The apartment is a mess - have seen it. Needs an overhaul and it's a maze of rooms. The issue could be about the hotel going up on 13th street. Also, this apartment faces west and has very little exposure to the south which is important in this building.

happ: I guess I am more correct in my assessment. In my day job I attempt to model human behavior. One of the constants proves that the stronger a reaction, the greater likelihood there will be an equally strong opposite reaction. Kind of combining physics and psychology. Your reaction alone, (which I "personally" agree with) only strengthens my "professional" argument that some muppet will show up and get sucked in. Economic Darwinism. I love it!

If on 12th Street, better to live at 299 West 12th or even 302

but any Bing and Bing is great

happyrenter: you're right. I typed too fast and mistook this for a building near the white St. Vincent's building which is also a prewar. My comments about the layout/reno costs stand, and with that I think you agree. And while not applicable to this building, I think 6-7 Aves 11th, 12th and 13th streets will have horrific traffic diversion/closing issues once construction begins.