If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Downtown Edition

Here's a nice looking, smallish 2 bed/2 bath in Chelsea (albeit on 23rd street not my favorite location) now asking well below its closing price in 2005:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/377902-coop-148-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

148 West 23rd 7A

STREETEASY HISTORY
04/25/2008
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's for $895,000
12/19/2008
Sotheby's listing unavailable at $849,000
01/29/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $775,000

Recorded Sale
03/23/2005 #7A $810,000

nice movement on a high floor post-war midsized 2 bedroom (junior 5 layout i believe)

105 west 13th 17E

STREETEASY HISTORY
01/05/2008
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats for $1,350,000
07/09/2008
Citi-Habitats listing unavailable at $1,250,000
02/10/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,050,000

comps:
06/23/2008 #14E $1,165,000 -5.7%

the lower floor E line units are smaller apartments and are not real comps.

apartment in a nice doorman prewar just got listed for slightly under its 2005 sale price:

300 West 23rd Street 9K

STREETEASY HISTORY
02/10/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Patrick Quagliano at $995,000

recorded sale
05/12/2005 #9J/K $999,000

wowza

2 Horatio Street 6E
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/383744-coop-2-horatio-street-west-village-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
03/31/2008
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $625,000
09/19/2008
Elliman listing temporarily off-market at $575,000
02/11/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $395,000

comps:
12/21/2007 #8E $600,000 -7.5%
04/05/2005 #9E $449,000

this is one of the best buildings down town--you run into oliver sachs in the elevator. that's some drop--and on a studio, the part of the market supposedly holding up best.

HR... close to $500psf... can I get a cookie? WOWZA is correct... you could also use WTF? or GODDANGIT!

330 Spring Street 11A just relisted at 2.595
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/384463-condo-330-spring-street-soho-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
04/19/2006
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran for $3,125,000
06/05/2007
Corcoran listing unavailable at $2,995,000
07/08/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Core Group Marketing at $2,995,000
10/17/2008
Price decreased to $2,750,000
02/14/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $2,595,000

comps:
01/30/2007 #10A $2,850,000 -4.8%
12/28/2006 #7A $2,625,000
12/12/2006 #5A $2,250,000 -5.5%
12/06/2006 #9A $2,600,000

the 5th floor comp is less reevant because of a big difference in views. i think this one still has a ways to fall though.

W67th, where are you getting $500psf for 2 Horatio? Nowhere near that. HR, 148 West 23rd always has below market values due to high maintenances (also somewhat true for 300 West 23rd - a much nicer emory roth building). It's more surprising that someone paid $810k for #7A in 2005!!

buster,

you are correct that 148 west 23rd always has below market values. that's why we are using comps--and in this case, a rock solid same unit comp. you can't really dispute a decline when the exact same apartment is asking less than it sold for four years ago.

Not disputing it - just surprised someone paid so much in 2005!

At 290 West 11th Street:

Active Listings
#2D ↓ $499,000

Recorded Sales
04/23/2007 #2D $560,000
10/19/2004 #1D $450,000

So, a small 1br in an ultra-prime location is asking 11% less than its own 2007 sale price and only 11% more than the ground floor unit sold for in 2004.

It's also interesting that the listing says "Unlimited Subletting after 1 year of ownership!" So much for "owners will just rent out their units until the market comes back."

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/290-west-11-street-manhattan

At Gramercy Park Tower at 205 Third Avenue:

Recorded Sales
02/02/2009 #14F $560,000
06/17/2008 #15F $665,000

Identical floorplans and renovations. These were sponsor units, so if 90% financing was utilized in the 2008 sale, 15F is under water.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/205-3-avenue-new_york

I want to see the closing price on this apt, esp because it went into contract in a shockingly fast amount of time:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/372850-coop-161-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york?email=true

I'd be surprised if it does not close at a 15-20% discount to listing price based on a comp apartment apartment (same line) 1 flight higher currently listed at $120k less: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/362005-coop-161-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york

That 2 Horatio apartment is a WOWZA. No pictures of kitchen or bath...I'm willing to bet it needs a gut renovation.

This is not so much a report on the market in a great building on lower 5th. forgive me if i've put it in the wrong thread.

Two weeks ago, apartment 10S in 2 5th avenue came on the market:

02/04/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $995,000

The apartment appears to have been priced to undercut all the other one bedrooms in the building. I saw it this weekend and it is ok: spacious one bedroom with decent views and a nice layout but the kitchen and bath need work and the maintenance is kind of high. Unfortunately for these sellers one of the apartments they were supposedly undercutting just got cut:

17N
STREETEASY HISTORY
12/04/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Gumley Haft Kleier at $1,150,000
02/17/2009
Price decreased to $999,000

17N has a much nicer terrace, a renovated kitchen, and views of 5th Ave and Wash Square Park. It is just a better apartment by a significant margin now asking the same price.

Then there is 10R:
STREETEASY HISTORY
04/04/2007
Previous sale closed for $1,000,000
11/21/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,195,000
02/01/2009
Price decreased to $1,100,000

not to mention 5N:
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,525,000
11/18/2008
Price decreased to $1,375,000
12/04/2008
Price decreased to $1,250,000

These two now appear very significantly overpriced relative to both 17N and 10S. I'd say that 10S needs a cut of at least 100k in order to stay competitive with 17N--and this less than two weeks after the apartment was listed to undercut all the other one bedrooms in the building. It's a good time to be looking on lower 5th.

117 East 18th Street #5 (actually a duplex) is now asking $2.495MM. That appears to be within about about 2% of the price for which Mike Piazza sold it in 2004:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1049921
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/117-east-18-street-manhattan
I think it's THAT Michael Joseph Piazza, but I guess there could be more than one.

Of greater relevance to the current listing for 117 East 18th, the owner is an executive recruiter who specializes in hedge funds...
http://www.jsbpartners.com/aboutus.html
...and the condo is already chasing him for overdue common charges:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2009020400900001

Looks like a distressed asset, with or without the baseball tie-in.

Just for fun: http://curbed.com/archives/2004/07/21/mike_piazzas_totally_not_gay_pad.php

copied from the "west village" thread
10105
about 4 hours ago
200 Mercer Street #2B
06/25/2007 Previous sale closed for $1,900,000
10/03/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,995,000
11/11/2008 Price decreased to $1,920,000
01/12/2009 Price decreased to $1,495,000

it's just amazing seeing what people were paying for very mediocre apartments.

Happyrenter: You don't like Piazza's place? Actually, neither did Piazza in the end - he moved downtown his last year with the Mets. (And he may have lived one floor above the unit that's on the market; it's hard to tell from the apartment numbers.)

I agree about Mercer Street. Remarkable.

the market for nice one bedrooms in the central village has become a veritable glut--so much for limited inventory in the 'hood.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385322-coop-50-west-9th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

50 West 9th Apartment 6C just hit the market at 1.2. Fully renovated and with beautiful open views--it is a back-facing apartment so the lower floor apartments do not have the same views.

SALES LISTINGS FOR THIS BUILDING
SAVE Active Listings (5)
↓ $1,075,000
50 West 9th Street #3C 1 bed
Open House: Sun, Feb 22 (1:00 - 2:00)

Recorded Sales:
07/02/2008 #4C $1,300,000 +4.0%
10/05/2007 #5C $1,350,000 -3.6%

People is dum.

Price has steadily been dropping here, but still overpriced. I can see it going for a bit more than the 2004 price (probably somewhere ~$950k). It's a lovely layout and a solid building, though a bit too close to the noise of 6th Ave to really be outstanding.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/351184-coop-2-charlton-street-soho-new-york
06/29/2004 Previous sale closed for $900,000
09/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,550,000
10/10/2008 Price decreased to $1,425,000
01/12/2009 Price decreased to $1,225,000

bjw,
the apartment was totally gut-renovated after the previous sale, so it's not quite accurate to say that 900k was the 2004 price--if this actually sells for 950k that would be a significant decline from 2004.

i love this one--it just shows the insanity of this boom. this apartment is 26% below a rock-solid same line comp in same condition from 18 months ago, and yet it is still quite overpriced in the current market and given what else is now available in the central village:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/345370-condo-59-west-12th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

59 West 12th 9C
STREETEASY HISTORY
06/24/2005
Previous sale closed for $1,800,000
08/30/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by DJK Residential at $2,795,000
11/11/2008
Price decreased to $2,595,000
01/12/2009
Price decreased to $2,295,000
02/20/2009
Price decreased to $1,995,000

Recorded Sales:
11/29/2007 #8C $2,700,000
06/24/2005 #9C $1,800,000

I'm glad I'm not trying to sell something in the prime central village right now. it is getting glutted like nobody's business and prices are beginning to crack (although certain units are still in the you've got to be dreaming phase). here's a reset to 2004 pricing on a nice-looking junior 4 in the brevoort:

20 East 9th Street 6F
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/18/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $995,000
10/13/2008
Price decreased to $895,000
12/12/2008
Price decreased to $795,000
02/22/2009
Price decreased to $729,000

recorded sale:
12/01/2004 #10F $722,000

this is 27% off the original asking price which, at around 1150psf would have been very reasonable in this area at the peak, although it was probably already too high by september when they put this thing on the market. this junior 4 is now asking only 30k more than a large alcove studio in the building--10F--which is at 699k. but it is also now asking 36% less than 3M--a unit of approximately the same size (probably a touch smaller) on the 3rd floor, albeit with a new remodel.

↓ $1,145,000
20 East 9th Street #3M 1 bed

happyrenter,

Have you seen 2 Charlton? Was it really totally gutted? Curious to see how it looks in person. Would be tough to sell for what they paid for it.

At 1 Fifth Avenue

Active Listings:
#5K ↓ $590,000

Recorded Sales:
12/09/2008 #14K $715,000
08/17/2007 #2K $855,000
06/14/2007 #6K $750,000
04/03/2007 #14K $725,000
10/06/2004 #6K $590,000

5K's listing claims renovated kitchen and bath, so condition shouldn't be a factor here. I realize there may be an improved view from 6K enhancing it's value, but 5K is currently asking it's 2004 closing price. Unless it's a different floor plan on lower floors, 2K's been killed, and the more recent buyer of 6K's taken a bruising.

I'm not especially well-versed in the Central Village/Gold Coast, but isn't this building about as prime as it gets?

tenemental,

Great find! I don't know much about the specifics of 1 5th, but the location is certainly prime, so close to Washington Sq. I'd imagine kylewest or happyrenter know much more about the building? Guys?

more bing and bing movement:

2 Horatio Apartment 16N
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385289-coop-2-horatio-street-west-village-new-york
STREETEASY HISTORY
02/18/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $635,000
02/23/2009
Price decreased to $599,000

Recorded Sales
10/03/2007 #9N $692,000 -1.0%

15% off a lower floor comp--and given the awesome views from 16N those 7 floors are quite valuable.

Another interesting one... 9 West 20th Street, boutique loft building, 10th floor just got cut $300K, asking 461K BELOW 2007 closing price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/357044-condo-9-west-20th-street-flatiron-new-york

08/21/2007 Previous sale closed for $2,661,000
10/11/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,750,000
10/30/2008 Price decreased to $2,500,000
02/27/2009 Price decreased to $2,200,000

Previous closings:

02/08/2008 #11 $2,750,000
06/12/2007 #8 $2,661,000
10/07/2004 #5 $1,950,000

134 Suffolk St. #134D

StreetEasy History
09/09/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $975,000
10/15/2008 Price decreased to $925,000
10/29/2008 Price decreased to $899,000
11/22/2008 Price decreased to $849,000
02/03/2009 Price decreased to $799,000
03/01/2009 Price decreased to $699,000

Recorded Sales
07/18/2005 #134-D $765,000

The center of the "hip" LES, asking 9% less than its own mid-2005 sale price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/130-suffolk-street-manhattan

Forgot to add, that's a 2br condo built in 2000 w/ a w/d and a small balcony, not a run-down walk-up, not that it matters much on a comps thread.

i think the damn is getting ready to burst in chelsea. so much new construction, so many lousy lofts that sold for crazy prices...

10 west 15th apartment 1828
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/09/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Gumley Haft Kleier at $1,645,000
11/15/2008
Price decreased to $1,495,000
02/11/2009
Price decreased to $1,375,000
03/03/2009
Price decreased to $1,175,000

Recorded Sales
07/31/2007 #1028 $1,315,000 +1.2%
04/14/2005 #1728 $1,250,000

with this latest cut we are 5% below the 2005 price.

happyrenter..Agreed the trend is down , but isnt that building still grossly expensive by sensible standards, since prices around 900sf or more. I don't know. It still seems unsustainable to me, especially given that boom times are over in NYC for a while to come

20 east 9th 11D

STREETEASY HISTORY
03/04/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $875,000

recorded sale:
01/07/2008 #8D $1,225,000 -5.4%

180 Thompson Street

Active Listings:
#3C $625,000

Recorded Sales:
06/28/2005 #2C $680,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/180-thompson-street-manhattan

251 West 19th Street

Active Listings:
#1C 1 bed 1,342 ft² ↓ $1,100,000

Recorded Sales:
06/27/2006 #1C $1,875,000
07/07/2005 #1C $1,200,000

Advertised as a short sale, this is now 41% below it's own mid-2006 sale price, and 8% below it's own mid-2005 sale price, though I would think some heavy renovation took place for the flip.

Active Listings:
#3C 2 beds 1,822 ft² ↑ $2,400,000

Recorded Sales:
12/07/2005 #3C $2,350,000

Less dramatically, this one's asking 2% more than its own late-2005 sale price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/251-west-19-street-manhattan

Sad case here perhaps. Closed in Jul-08 for 1.49M, at pre-construction price from Oct-06, so buyer figured he had a sweet deal when went into contract. Market tanks and personal situation changes, so lists 5-days after closing. Now, he has reduced the price to $1.25M (at a 16% loss not including front/back-end closing costs). Adding insult to injury, this likely is one of the buildings that goes to auction on remaining units in April. Priced right at re-list in Jul-08, the owner may have broken even. This could sell for less than $900K.

STREETEASY HISTORY
10/30/2006 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,490,000
07/17/2008 Sale closed for $1,490,000
07/22/2008 Price increased to $1,780,000
07/30/2008 Price decreased to $1,699,000
08/07/2008 Price decreased to $1,650,000
08/09/2008 Price decreased to $1,495,000
08/26/2008 Price increased to $1,650,000
01/17/2009 Price decreased to $1,399,000
03/11/2009 Price decreased to $1,250,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/53057-condo-20-pine-street-financial-district-new-york?email=true

On the other hand, maybe just a flipper caught in the whirlwind.

this is just the worst strategy in the world:

30 5th Avenue 12AB
STREETEASY HISTORY
02/11/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Warburg at $3,400,000
02/19/2009
Price decreased to $2,995,000
03/11/2009
Price decreased to $2,500,000

the strategy appears to be this: overprice the apartment by about $2 million, and then rapidly cut it to make it look like the buyer is getting a deal.

at the peak, high floor A line sold for about 950k, and high floor B line for about 1.1 million, which gets you to $2.05. So with the market way off, these people still expect a 75% premium over that for their combination? on top of everything these apartments do not combine well at all. i love the apartment described as 'spacious.' the living room measures 13x15.

this place should sell for no more than 1.6.

ahh, the urban glass house: an overpriced gimmick in a lousy location (spring street up against the west side highway in a high-traffic area dominated by offices and light industry). prices could go a hell of a lot lower:

330 Spring Street 11A
STREETEASY HISTORY
02/14/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $2,595,000
03/12/2009
Price decreased to $2,395,000

01/30/2007 #10A $2,850,000 -4.8%
12/28/2006 #7A $2,625,000
12/12/2006 #5A $2,250,000 -5.5%
12/06/2006 #9A $2,600,000
11/22/2006 #6A $2,494,712
11/21/2006 #2A $1,800,000
11/10/2006 #4A $2,189,237

this listing began life two brokers ago asking over $3 million. it is now priced below the 2006 price for 6A, an apartment that lacks an open view.

"on top of everything these apartments do not combine well at all"

Are you suggesting that there's something wrong if there's no closet in the master bedroom, and the sole walk-in is off the living room? Pshaw, that's a perfectly reasonable floorplan.

ord,

that's just the tip of the iceburg: how about the fact that the foyer, both bedrooms, and the 'dining area' are all larger than the living room? the living room and master bedroom face an interior light well, while the open views are only from the kitchen and the second bedroom? two decent one bedrooms have been turned into a bizarre, cramped five room apartment. the building and location are fantastic, so i have no doubt that it is still a valuable apartment. but it ain't worth $2, let alone $2.5, let alone $3.5.

42 east 20th

the formerly-hot madison square park area is really coming down:

42 east 20th 6C

StreetEasy History
04/27/2005 Previous sale closed for $1,690,000
03/11/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by DJK Residential at $1,599,000

just to give a sense of all the chops in this line 5C started life a year ago asking 2.4, and it is now down to 1.5

if only this apartment were just a bit bigger...
the gold coast is starting to get hit hard:

40 west 12th street 3rd floor
StreetEasy History
03/11/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $995,000

recorded sale:
02/05/2008 #4FLPH $1,150,000

this is actually a lot more movement than it looks like: i saw the 4th floor unit when it was on the market and it was essentially raw space: no interior walls, floors in horrible shape, an ancient kitchen, etc. it needed a complete gut/build out. so if it sold for 1.150, that means an effective price of at least 1.4 and realistically 1.5 to make it a beautiful home. the third floor unit is apparently in move-in condition.

moreover, they call the 4th floor a 'penthouse' but it is simply the top floor of a walkup building: it has no outdoor space or any other special penthouse features. in fact, the additional floor in a walkup is a negative, not a positive, when it comes to valuing the property.

i would conservatively call this a 28% decline, but realistically it is more like 33%. all those gold coast one bedroom sellers (39 5th, 2 5th, brevoort, 30 5th, 50 west 9th etc. etc.) should be quaking in their boots.

In the old New Museum building at 158 Mercer 6B:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391707-condo-158-mercer-street-soho-new-york

was just listed at $6.95m for 4700sf.

Somebody who didn't get the memo bought the same size apartment 5B one floor lower recently in November for $900k more at $7.85m. Ouch.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/189408-condo-158-mercer-st-soho-new-york

And you have to be even unhappier if you were the guy who paid more than the asking price one floor higher 7B in June of 2007 for $8.5m, a 1.55m premium over ask of 6B.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/11840-condo-158-mercer-street-soho-new-york

lovely, renovated 2 bedroom combination at london terrace now asking about 13% less than the peak prices for the two component apartments:

410 west 24th 6GH
STREETEASY HISTORY
12/28/2007
Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,700,000.
02/29/2008
Corcoran Listing is no longer available.
02/18/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,300,000.
03/13/2009
Price decreased by 8% to $1,195,000.

i saw 6GH at 410 west 24th and the broker told me they had two offers so i better rush right back. this was well over a month ago. hmm

seriously. i don't know whether it's a good deal at this price but it does look like a nice apartment.

40 Mercer price chopper.

I can't tell what they paid since the apartments were sold as numbers (12, 24, 35) etc but are listed by floor/apt (3B, 4D), etc. Anybody know how to correlate the two?

StreetEasy History
06/03/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $7,250,000.
07/22/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $6,950,000.
11/07/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $6,295,000.
12/05/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $5,750,000.
03/16/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $4,995,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/274899-condo-40-mercer-st-soho-new-york

more movement at 2 horatio (top village doorman fs coop):

7R just listed at 960k--large one bedroom with nice views

recorded sales
12/22/2008 #6R $950,000 -3.5% $985,000 ↓
11/08/2007 #3R $1,200,000 -7.6% $1,299,000 ↓
12/22/2006 #10-R $1,180,000 -5.6% $1,250,000

2004 asking price at the Christodora house, arguably the top building in the East Village.

Active Listings:
143 Avenue B #12A 1 bed 582 ft² $599,000

Recorded Sales:
10/27/2004 #10A $635,000

There's an amazing old Times article from the last downturn that talks about owners there selling at significant losses. Maybe this seller and/or broker remembers history.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/143-avenue-b-manhattan

Nice loft though I wouldn't want to be on West Broadway. Price after commission/discount down to 2005 sale level.

459 West Broadway #5S in Soho
StreetEasy History
11/10/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $3,875,000.
02/17/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $4,850,000.
02/23/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $4,600,000.
03/17/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $4,200,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385037-coop-459-west-broadway-soho-new-york?email=true

This is the best thread, thanks all for the info!

What do you all think of "Loft 14"? I think it's 135 West 14th. Went to an open house there this weekend, and they had them priced well over $1000/sf. I think they are in for a big surprise.

hurting, i think that development is a disaster. i wouldn't buy in anywhere close to those prices.

below the 2005 sale price on this nice loft on wonderful great jones street:

55 Great Jones Street #6
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/18/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,650,000.

recorded sale
04/12/2005 #6 $1,758,500

Here's the pricing history from last year, with different brokers:

STREETEASY HISTORY
04/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,100,000.
07/28/2008
Price decreased by 5% to $1,995,000.
08/01/2008
Listing is no longer available.
08/11/2008
Re-listed by Corcoran.
03/02/2009
Delisted temporarily.

happyrenter,

Great great find. The space looks fantastic and I love the location. If that thing drops close to $1.2, I imagine it would go fairly quickly. Might add it to my watch list!

happyrenter,

thanks. I agree it's overpriced. What do you think is reasonable? I'm thinking $800/sqf? Is there anything else you don't like about it? Looking in that area, but hard to know what to comp things at. The "core" people were acting like it's business as usual.

Considering the asking rents at Loft 14 are 40% below out-of-pocket costs for buying (on identical units) I'd say it's pretty darn overvalued. And of course, to actually rent those places you'd have to cut the ask by at least 20%.

Wow, 55 Great Jones St has ACCURATE square footage! 90 ft x 25 ft is 2,250 st ft and they list it LOWER at 2,100 sf!! Obviously they are properly discounting for the stairwell and elevator.

See, it can be down. But this seller is now at a DISADVANTAGE to all the LIARS who inflate their square footage, though at $785 psf it looks reasonable, that is a nice block (except for the fire house but they usually don't use their siren until the end of the block).

ps: what the heck is a "manual pressure elevator"? You need to pull on a rope to haul yourself up?

the recorded sales are starting to reflect the decline:

60 east 9th
recorded sale
03/12/2009 #516 $680,000 -2.7%
05/08/2008 #216 $810,000 -1.8%

17% off downtown (strongest area) under a million (strongest price point) AND with a quite significant difference in floors.

60 east 9th.. is that a good location/building? Or on the edge of the village?

IMO, 60 e 9th is a great location. Very central village location. Don't know about the building.

I see prices going down at 40 East 9th as well. Average list prices is below $1000/sf.. where as sales are above.

This one’s interesting. An East Village 2bed/2bath condo built in 2002 that sold for 53% less than the unit 1 floor below in late-07. However, it was an in-family sale. Still, it can’t be good for building comps, and it does give a sense of how low things can go. Perhaps the original owner just asked for enough to cover the outstanding mortgage? It’s a reminder of just how much cheaper things were only a short time ago.

Recorded Sales:
02/27/2009 #3FE $499,000
11/08/2007 #2FE $1,055,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/407-east-12-street-manhattan

At 408 Eighth Avenue in Chelsea, a sale 16% below a 2005 comp.

Recorded Sales:
02/18/2009 #8A $700,000 (from an original ask of $950k)
07/28/2005 #7A $835,000

And now #7A is trying to sell for $899k. A good example of how important a long (10yrs plus) timeline is.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/408-eighth-avenue-manhattan

At 2 Horatio St., a prime (Bing and Bing) building in a prime neighborhood.

Recorded Sales:
01/28/2009 #11B $500,000
02/20/2008 #5B $632,500
11/20/2007 #15B $790,000
09/24/2007 #8B $659,000
08/11/2006 #17B $695,000
08/01/2005 #8B $510,000

11B went for a little below a lower floor's 2005 price. If you average 15B and 8B's peak 2007 sales prices, this represents a 31% drop.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/2-horatio-street-manhattan

THX tenemental

what's going on in Noho? no comps on this, and little information, but the price is rather eye-opening:

21 Bond Street
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/21/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,750,000.

full floor loft with a listed square footage of 2400.

this block was hot hot hot last year, and now a full floor loft on the block is asking well under $800 a foot (if the square footage is at all accurate)?

chelsea too:
270 west 17th 3G:

STREETEASY HISTORY
07/28/2004
Previous Sale recorded for $1,035,000.
11/20/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,249,000.
01/27/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $1,190,000.
03/22/2009
Price decreased by 16% to $999,000.

05/01/2008 #5G $1,320,000 -4.0%
06/30/2006 #6G $1,100,000 -8.0%
03/15/2006 #2G $1,125,000 -6.2%
08/11/2004 #5G $990,000
07/28/2004 #3G $1,035,000

nice 2 bedroom apartment on a very nice block asking now asking 3% less than the 2004 same unit sale. move-in condition (although i assume there were conditions issues on the first sale of 5G and the sale of 6G since they sold for less than lower floor comps at the same time).

happyrenter:

21 Bond St.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/realestate/22livi.html?pagewanted=print&position=

happyrenter - 21 bond may have structural issues.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/realestate/22livi.html?pagewanted=print&position=

Wow - check out the 1989 price!

Residential Resales
Published: Sunday, January 22, 1989
Closings in the week ending Jan. 7 MANHATTAN NoHo $325,000 21 Bond Street 2-bedroom, 1-bath, 2,500-sq.-ft. prewar loft-co-op; high-ceilings, hardwood floors; artist-in-residence space; maintenance $500, no tax deduction (Broker: Sinvin Realty)

that's interesting. but jess, it's an artist-in-residence space. i assume that is some sort of restriction.

Yes, once they update the listing, perhaps we will find out some more.

happyrenter, nice find on 270 W 17th street, which is my "sanity test" building. because last time I lived in NYC full time,in 2008, was in that building.

Unit 3G you cited still is selling at roughly 900 psf which still strikes me as a ludicrous price for that building which is medium-speed quality. Also, I am not sure but if that unit is right on eigth avenue on the third floor then it would be very, very noisy, at least by my noisy-meter.

As point of reference: I lived in unit 12E in 2000 which was rented to me for $2900, and offered for sale to me for $380,000 (it was like 640sf, including balcony), and which could be rented for around 3100 now,I believe, and sale offering price on similar size units now is about 750,000. I am waiting for return to price not far from 2000 level (but maybe I'm nuts).

what is an artist-in-residence restriction?..

jim,

something is off about your numbers. if the apartment rented for 2900 in 2000 it would not rent for 3100 now. even with the decline in rents they are still up quite dramatically since 2000.

Happyrenter: In 2000 the owner had asked about 3000$ per month, and ultimately took 100 less than that. No similar unit is listed now but I thought I had seen for the building some units for about 3200$ or 3300$ recently....but none this size are listed now except a fully, nicely furnished unit for 6500 that is being pitched as a luxury furnished rental. There is a unit twice the size for about 6500$. Maybe there is some other source for rental rates these days..but I don't know.

Happyrenter..using google i just found a listing for a slightly larger unit which was taken off 10 days ago , which was offered at 3300 as of november. Regardless of the detail, the price appreciation seems to have been about double for these basically generic condo units, while rentals were up say 15% over eight or so years. Seems strange , but I think what I'm noting is right.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/413098-condo-270-west-17th-street-chelsea-new-york

At 205 East 10th Street, a unit listed 5% below it's own 2005 closing price.

Active Listings:
#5E 1 bed 550 ft² ↓ $450,000

Recorded Sales:
08/17/2005 #5E $475,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/205-east-10-street-manhattan

I was suprised at how much this buyer paid. market is a bit stronger than i thought (for now at least)
40 West 17th Street #9A (co-op)
same apt bought for 1.435 in June 04
listed in oct 08 at $1.895
entered contract yesterday for $1.695
when the papers are filed, we'll see if the $1.695 price is accurate.
my guess is sq footage is around 1500.
apartment is really nice, but over $1000/ft in this market still seems crazy, especially given the thousand of units of new construction coming onto the market in the next year.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361444-coop-40-west-17th-st-chelsea-new-york?email=true

That isn't the closing price. I was at the final open house and they were still looking because it was a below ask offer from a buyer the sellers didn't particularly like dealing with. They are staying in the building just moving to a larger unit on a different floor. They did a lot of nice work on the unit though.

As jasonkyle points out, 40 W 17th did not "enter into contract for $1.695" - $1.695 is only the last asking price that was listed when the property went into contract. Note that the apt closed for $1.435 in 2004. I don't know if any way to find out the actual sale price until the property closes. In fact, it is pretty unlikely that any apt in this market has gone into contract for the figure listed as the lasting asking price. For all we know, this property went into contract at 40% off of the last listing price of $1.695.

two bridges is essentially the outskirts of chinatown. dirty and not one redeeming quality.

Happyrenter:

Just saw your post from a couple of weeks ago on 42 e. 20th. I went to an open house at 5C a while ago (before their most recent chop to 1,395,000). Even with the real disadvantage of the lack of light, since that line faces the back of the building, I was surprised that they've had to chop so much. Initial ask was goofy-high, but for that price (if you can live in the dark) I thought the finishes and layout were great. I personally love the location too--can't get much better than above Gramercy Tavern.

At The Albert at 23 East 10th Street, a higher floor unit selling for 8% less than a 2005 comp.

Recorded Sales:
03/24/2009 #5D $575,000
10/11/2005 #3D $625,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/23-east-10-street-new_york

Another steep Central Village drop at 60 East 9th Street; 16% less than 2008 for a much better floor.

Recorded Sales:
03/12/2009 #516 $680,000
05/08/2008 #216 $810,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/60-east-9-street-manhattan

233 East 17th (Landmark 17) #8 - just reduced a further $200K, to $2.2MM
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1091185

Active Listing:
CURRENT .... #8 ↓ $2,200,000 3 beds 3 baths 2,196 ft²

Recorded Sales:
05/18/2007 #8 $2,798,000

west81st, looks like a beautiful apartment, but that location just isn't ultra prime, and this one could fall a lot more.

that seems really pricey especially considering that my brother lived at landmark 17 for free when it was hazelden rehab.

233 east 17 does seem overpriced. interesting location, but not super prime. And the layout isn't that great.

161 west 16th 17G

STREETEASY HISTORY
08/02/2005
Previous Sale recorded for $2,050,000.
04/02/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Warburg at $1,995,000.

Mrsbuffet and Jasonkyle discussed 4 West 21st on the first page of this thread. Here's a new closing in the "B" line. #6B was initially listed a year ago at $2.25MM.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
04/01/2009 . #6B $1,450,000 -12.1% |↓ $1,650,000 Sold 2 beds 3 baths 1,475 ft²
05/30/2008 . #3B $1,960,000 . -1.8% |↓ $1,995,000 Sold 2 beds 3 baths 1,475 ft²
12/15/2006 #10B $2,030,000 ..........|
11/16/2006 . #2B $1,792,120 . -2.3% | . $1,835,000 2 beds 3 baths 1,466 ft²
10/24/2006 . #4B $1,885,000 ..........|
10/24/2006 . #3B $1,613,926 ..........|
09/18/2006 #12B $2,153,598 ..........|
09/06/2006 #11B $2,102,686 ..........|
08/28/2006 #14B $2,214,693 ..........|
07/24/2006 . #5B $1,655,062 ..........|
07/17/2006 . #4B $1,615,000 ..........|
07/05/2006 . #7B $1,650,000 ..........|

Layouts may vary a bit. #17B is a completely different apartment, so I excluded it. Not sure about the 11th-14th floors. The low-middle floors appear to be consistent based on the available floorplans, so the drop is pretty dramatic, beyond pre-construction pricing.

And presumably, West81st, those pre-construction prices may have, at least some of them, been determined in 2004?

I truly hate to cheer when some are clearly taking an awful financial hit, but this is the best piece of real estate new I personally have ssen. Downtown prices have been awfully sticky, but the glue seems to be evaporating.

Another important fact about 4 West 21st #6B: The owner's 2006 price was $1.635MM. So the nominal drop is 11.3%. Don't know why SE doesn't show that transaction. Maybe I just missed it.

Aboutready: Only somebody who followed the project closely would really know when those prices were set. Considering the way the market was rocking at the time, Brodsky may have bumped up the prices at some point, to the levels where the sales were struck. So those mid-2006 closing prices might reflect anything between 2004 and early 2006. Split the difference and call it 2005, which would suggest the recent resale was at a 2004 price.

i saw 6B. it was decent enough. too much bathroom space and not enough closet space. but it didn't clear the building across the street on either side so that would probably give the upper floors a little more cache.

95 Van Dam Apt 5R

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/45224-condo-sophisticated-living-soho-new-york
7/2007
SOLD FOR
$2,195,000
2,264 ft²
$969 PSF

Just hit the market asking $1.75M
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/1096661
and somehow found another 96SF (listed as 2360 at Elliman), however broker is honest about views (or lack thereof) is listing description.

And, on the smaller side, we have this:

67 East 11th Street #624
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/383816-coop-67-east-11th-st-greenwich-village-new-york
0/31/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $520,000.
12/29/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $485,000.
02/11/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $425,000.
03/02/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $399,000.
04/08/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $350,000.

Last closed sale for this line was #224, which closed in 2005 for , and is also on the market (renovated)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/370769-coop-67-east-11th-st-greenwich-village-new-york
08/05/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $380,000.
02/28/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $490,000.
04/15/2008 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $425,000.
12/13/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $499,000.
01/30/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $475,000.
03/23/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $455,000.
04/07/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $445,000.

If I were in the market for a studio in this area, I'd go for the higher floor and renovate myself!

This one definitely is selling below what the seller purchased at. Orginial sale price $3,500,000 in 2005.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/184857-condo-50-warren-street-tribeca-new-york
02/23/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $5,250,000.
02/24/2008
Price increased by 5% to $5,500,000.
11/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $4,900,000.
12/02/2008
Price decreased by 3% to $4,750,000.
01/11/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $4,500,000.
01/12/2009
Price decreased by 11% to $4,000,000.
02/17/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $3,800,000.
02/18/2009
Price decreased by 1% to $3,750,000.
03/28/2009
Listing entered contract.

The sixth-floor loft at 55 Great Jones Street was just reduced again, to $1.595MM. As Happyrenter noted above, the owner paid $1.7585MM in early 2005, so the new ask looks 2003-2004ish.

At 223 West 21st Street, seller asking 11% below 2007 purchase price:

Active Listings:
#3L 1.5 beds $599,000

Recorded Sales:
09/14/2007 #3L $675,000

It probably seemed like a decent deal at the time, given the bubblicious comp before that…

Recorded Sales:
04/20/2006 #5L $750,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/223_233-west-21-street-new_york