If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Downtown Edition

For anyone quickly skimming, that should read "seller asking 11% below his own 2007 purchase price."

Alchemy has reduced the price on one of its challenged (1A) properties, new development the Oculus.

Originally listed at $1.395, seems to have gone into and out of contract at over $1.2m, and is now $950k. Still grossly overpriced for a Chelsea one bedroom, but this is some serious downward action.

Actually Alchemy has lowered the prices on most of their remaining units at the Oculus. And one closed recently for 16% below last asking price. They have closed on 37 out of 47 apartments, with another 2 in contract. Looks like this one will make it.

I agree about the Oculus (grossly overpriced). The units are pretty small and the taxes will steadily increase to astronomical levels. I can't believe people are still paying these prices when there are much larger units on the market in the same area in the same price range.

Another huge cut on #2G at 11 Fifth Avenue (Brevoort):
StreetEasy History
10/17/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,850,000.
01/15/2009 Price decreased by 19% to $1,495,000.
03/10/2009 Price decreased by 13% to $1,295,000.
04/21/2009 Price decreased by 19% to $1,050,000.
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1015050
Drop from peak is probably around 30%. It's hard to be sure because of the low floor.

25 Fifth Avenue "E" line. Gold Coast 1BR condos down 21% from peak. Contract date unavailable.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
04/07/2009 . #7E $1,100,000 -21.4% | $1,400,000 1 beds 1 bath 790 ft²
08/26/2008 . #3E $1,360,000 . +0.0% | $1,360,000 1 bed 1 bath 790 ft²
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/25-5-avenue-new_york

The Brevoort unit needs loads of work and has an impossible board that is basically not letting them sell. One more reason to go Condo!

"Another huge cut on #2G at 11 Fifth Avenue (Brevoort):"

and the unit directly above it, 3G, with a slightly inferior renovation is still asking $1,495,000. but they have only been on the market for 7 weeks, whereas 2G has been on the market for 26 weeks. Can you say "learning curve"?

hurting, can you provide any specifics on what restrictions the board at the breevoort is imposing that are making sale difficult? I noticed the listing says window a/c units are no longer allowed. Does this mean a purchaser would be unable to have air conditioning, or that he would need to install either through-wall or central a/c? Are there other issues?

The Brevoort is far from my dream building, and that is far from my dream apartment. That said....it would be tempting to toss them a bone and see what happened--750k all cash. i could slum it on 9th street and 5th avenue for the next five years at that price :).

JohnDoe, I was curious about that too. Does this mean that for a million dollars, the purchaser couldn't have air conditioning in summer? Personally, I hate air conditioning, but those few days of summer when you really need it, you really, really need it.

the brevoort has through-wall air conditioning.

I think the deal with the A/c is that this unit has windowed acs, grandfathered in. But a new owner would have to remove and install new. From what i understand, the board is asking that the new owner have MORE than the asking price in liquid assets, something like $1.3mm. (If I had those kind of liquid assets why would i live here?) Plus they only allow 60% financing and are generally quite choosy about letting people in to the fold. You should confirm these details if you're interested because this is what i've heard second hand. Also, bathrooms, floors and kitchen very, very dated.

Here's a fun one from the Celebrity Sales Department:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/368323-condo-497-greenwich-street-soho-new-york
01/09/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $3,105,662.
12/02/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $3,800,000.
01/21/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $3,500,000.
02/18/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $3,200,000.
03/19/2009 Listing entered contract.
04/16/2009 Sale recorded for $2,900,000.

The buyer here is recognizable as the son of a certain bold-face actor (and CPW resident) whose name is permanently linked to Tribeca. But he's also a managing director at Elliman, and his wife is a member of his broker team. So when the time came to buy, did he buy through Elliman, or through his uncle's failing firm? Nope. Only a Corcoran listing could meet their exacting tastes.

Anyway, the price is $200K+ below a same-unit sale from late '05 / early '06.

Another 2005 price in the Central Village.

Stewart House at 70 East 10th Street

Recorded Sales
04/17/2009 #5W $700,000
06/25/2008 #8W $1,175,000
09/27/2007 #21W $912,500
10/25/2006 #11W $795,000
08/17/2005 #7W $750,000
06/10/2005 #15W $715,000

I realize the floor and (likely) condition are better, but the owner of 8W must feel like the last person to write Madoff a check.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/70-east-10-street-new_york

That would be Raphael, West81st.

Tenemental: Isn't "no names" one of our ground rules? Or does Raphael qualify for the celebrity exception because his dad is super-bold-face, he's an Elliman MD and his uncle owns (well, owned) a real estate brokerage?

Sorry, I thought it was a guessing game for the audience. Raphael, though, definitely qualifies for both the celebrity and broker exceptions, not to mention the this-purchase-was-mentioned-yesterday-in-Curbed exception.

As for Namegate, I didn't post back then but agreed with the long list of people who thought that the publicly available information you were discussing was fair game.

Sorry, I thought it was a guessing game for the audience. Raphael, though, definitely qualifies for both the celebrity and broker exceptions, not to mention the this-purchase-was-mentioned-yesterday-in-Curbed exception.

As for Namegate, I didn't post back then but agreed with the long list of people who thought that the publicly available information you were discussing was fair game.

Scooped by Curbed. That's harsh.

Is Curbed owned by Stribling?

Speaking of Curbed and downtown downward movement, the Ghulpster has put its prime units on the market as rentals. Oh, the indignity.

ghulpster?

Wow, and i haven't even started on the wine yet. I meant the Chupster, the nickname given to Palazzo Chupi. My keyboard is sticky and I can barely get out anything, so I've really let the proofreading standards slip.

Don't sweat it, West81st, they didn't do a comps analysis :-) Just a link to a Real Deal article, which I didn't read until now. I was wondering, what does a broker who bought below the seller's own purchase price tell prospective clients? Now I know - really big lies!

"This is a historic opportunity to buy and we decided to take advantage of it," he said. "Prices have not been this reasonable since 1998. In my opinion it is the best time to buy since 1998."

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/raphael-deniro-pays-2-9m-for-soho-condo

ah chupi! the building curbed is obsessed with like a beyonce movie.

Tenemental: OK - I can live with getting scooped by TRD.

As for Raphael's line about 1998, it depends upon what the meaning of the word is means. If is means is, and never has been, that's one thing. If it means, there is none, that was a completely true statement.

Holy Mother Of All Price Declines.

At the A Building, 425 E. 13th St., I saw this recent closing price:

03/10/2009 #6A $800,000

Then found this in the same line:

02/28/2008 #7A $1,425,000

I couldn't believe they were the same floorplan, had to be that there was a big change in layout from 6 to 7. But 7 isn't the A-line penthouse:

02/29/2008 #PHA $1,725,000

And look at this sale two floors below:

01/31/2008 #4A $1,350,000

And this just below that:

02/14/2008 #3A $1,250,000

I checked some other lines and the pricing on the 6th floor is typically consistent with the rest of the line (a bit higher priced with each floor up).

This looks like a 43% price drop. Other lines have dropped by 19% and 9%. They've taken down the website, hiding the floorplans from the general public. Meanwhile, there's no sale listed for 5A; it's shadow inventory. Guess what unit will be used for the comp (and appraisal) when it's offered? There are also three other condos in the neighborhood that are largely unsold that I can think of off the top of my head and two brand new ones beginning sales.

What better pairing with the Mother Of All Price Declines than the Mother Of All Funk Chords? Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tprMEs-zfQA

tenemental - holy mother is right.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POOL!! Isn't that worth $300k per apartment at least?

It's mean, but I'm feelin' some glee here.

tenemental, what else is coming on market near there?

Isn't the Copper Building coming?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/215-avenue-b-new_york

There's the Copper Building on the corner of Ave B and 13th St. I haven't seen listings for this one, but the broker's signage is up at the site. Village Green is on 11th between 1st and 2nd http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/311-east-11-street-new_york. They had 10 listings up for a day and then pulled them. There was an announcement recently by the LES Girls Club that they're building a new space at Ave. D and 7th that will include 42 condo units. There's a condo building going up where the Miracle Grill patio used to be on St. Marks between 1st and A. Those are the ones I'm aware of, but I've seen a couple of other sites as I walk around the neighborhood (not including the nearly-completed Fabria houses, which are some kind of subsidized housing, but actually look nicer than a lot of market rate stuff).

The largely unsold buildings I was referring to are 525 East 12th, 1 of 6 in contract after 13 months on the market and a recent change in brokers, 643 East 11th, which has sold 3 of 11 since late-07, and the Flowerbox on East 7th which has sold 6 out of 13 since 2006. All three buildings keep units in shadow inventory, but if you look at what's been offered vs. what's been sold it's easy to see what's still available. There are unlisted but unsold units at the A Building as well, and other recent developments in the area that I don't know much about: some warehouse conversions on far East 10th, a new, small building on East 2nd...

Didn't see your post, aboutready (I refuse to abbreviate you to AR for obvious reasons). I named that one "Most Likely to Fail" on another thread. You might be able to get away with balconies overlooking public housing in a market frenzy, but now it just looks like a really bad idea. It's only a couple blocks away from a nicer part of the neighborhood, but the immediate area, not so much.

BTW, you've been on fire lately. I don't get a chance to follow all the links, but I appreciate the articles I've had a chance to read.

tenemental, aren't they still working on the site at 14th and Third, also? across from the fugly 110 Third Avenue?

I love this neighborhood, but the product available is laughable.

Thanks for the kind words. I hope the links are of use to some people. I'm considering writing a book, I seem to have too much time and energy right now. I've long had the time, but was lacking in the energy department.

From what I've read on Curbed, they are. I didn't mention it as I was sticking closer to Alphabet City, but it will certainly be part of the area's inventory. When I walk by I feel a bit for the people in 111 3rd that are losing their lot-line views after so many decades. Some others will lose views to the back if the Millsteins ever build on their lot on E. 13th.

Clearly energy is no longer a problem. I'd buy the book.

tenemental, have to think the drops at the A building and the new inventory will only help your cause. Are you considering new development at all? I have yet to see anything in the area that seems to be both good quality and a good block, but I'm not as on top of the market as I used to be.

tene and AR, are you SE insiders?
The A building apt 6A was sold and bought by the sponsor. Diff LLC names on deed but but same LLC parents.
I'll let others explain the reasons for doing this.

divvie, no but I really ought to be, so I think I'll overcome my inherent cheapness and fork over the $10 a month.

that's some might fine info you got for your $10.

divvie, no but I really ought to be, so I think I'll overcome my inherent cheapness and fork over the $10 a month.

that's some might fine info you got for your $10.

I'm not going to put up the comps on this one, just have a peak at the history for the building. A two bedroom for $649k, no sf listed but in common broker speak this would be about 1000 sf. It's sort of a Jr.4, but not as much as most convertible 2s.

Why can't I find Julia her alcove studio?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/406225-coop-201-east-28th-st-kips-bay-new-york

Thanks, divvie. I am an insider, and I've clicked through many sales, but obviously not this one. Occasionally I'll find a really low price that turns out to be in-family (I mentioned one on p2 of this thread), but given that this was new development and not a resale, it didn't dawn on me to check. I would be very curious to hear anyone's theories on what this is about, though being that Ben Shaoul is the developer, shadiness is in no way surprising.

Hey bjw. When I see new development, I always consider the unabated taxes, and in most cases, the combined CCs & tax makes me think it wouldn't be worth it even at firesale prices. 643 E 11th is a perfect example. The CCs are over $1/sf for minimal amenities. What will the total monthlies be with full taxes? A whole lot more than a similarly sized co-op, I'm sure. I won't rule it out completely (who knows just how deep the cuts will go), but I definitely expect a huge fallout from all the unwanted new development, and expect it to be a big shoe to drop market-wide eventually. Hope you got that bike you were asking about. We're back in season.

tenemental, you're absolutely right to look at unabated taxes, I think. I'm amazed at how many people are swayed by abatements - they can help, but you have to be as cautious as possible, and not being aware of post-abatement taxes is a huge error. Every building's different, but too many end up having excessively high monthlies, so we'd probably need to see very significant drops for a purchase to make sense in these cases. I was fortunate enough to buy into a building where monthlies, even post-abatement, are on the lower end. There's even been talk of lowering common charges because we're well under budget on expenses, but I'd advise anyone against that, as you want to build a very healthy reserve as fast as possible. And yes, I expect to be biking sometime in the next few weeks, with a pit stop at Matilda!

This loft is asking 37% less than the peak comp sale from 2006--wow. The flatiron area seems to be in complete collapse. At first I thought the apartment might be a wreck, but it actually appears to be in at least decent condition.

The older listing claims to be 3000 square feet, while this one claims 2500, but since they are both full floor loft units seems hard to imagine they are different sizes.

876 Broadway
04/29/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,995,000.

Recorded Sales:
07/11/2006 #4 $3,150,000 -1.6%

Palazzo Chupi:

The penthouse combo now asking $38 million, down from $55 million. Poor Julian.

234 West 16th Street #4C asking 4% below its own 2005 price:

07/20/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $485,000.
08/12/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $498,000.
02/19/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $475,000.
03/13/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $465,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391609-coop-234-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york

At 315 East 12th St.

Active Listings:

#12 2 beds ↓ $535,000

Recorded Sales:

09/05/2008 #10 $615,000 (same floor as #12, mirror image flooplan)
11/29/2007 #16 $625,000 (directly above #10)
10/15/2007 #22 $625,000 (directly above #16)

#12 is offered at a 13% discount to #10, its closest comp, which was already down a fair bit (5-6% or so) from the peak level comps if you factor in their lesser value (it's a walkup building).

However, anyone considering #12 would be wise to look at this comp directly above, which clobbered the value of #16, even if the buyer didn't take the $25k reno the sponsor was offering.

04/16/2008 #18 $495,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/315-east-12-street-manhattan

At the Bullmoose (42 West 20th), asking price for 6C is below its 2005 closing

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391158-condo-42-east-20th-street-flatiron-new-york

04/27/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,690,000.
03/11/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by DJK Residential at $1,599,000.

90 William Street "A" line. 2BR/2BA, stated sq.ft. 1,156. The recent sale of #10A puts the drop from peak close at nearly 25%.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ... #16A ...................... |↓ $1,075,000 2 beds 1,156 ft²
CURRENT ... #14A ..................... |↓ $1,050,000 2 beds 1,156 ft²
04/24/2009 #10A . $875,000 -11.2% |↓ . $985,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
08/21/2008 . #9A $1,136,000 . +0.0% |↑ $1,136,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
08/04/2008 . #4A $1,086,000 . +0.0% |↑ $1,086,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/23/2008 #12A $1,158,000 . -0.7% |↑ $1,167,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/23/2008 #15A $1,192,000 . +0.0% |↑ $1,192,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/22/2008 . #3A $1,076,000 . +1.0% |↓ $1,065,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/22/2008 . #8A $1,131,000 . +1.4% | . $1,115,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/18/2008 . #7A $1,102,000 . +0.0% | . $1,102,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/16/2008 . #5A $1,096,000 . +0.0% | . $1,096,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²
07/15/2008 . #6A $1,106,000 . +0.0% |↑ $1,106,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,156 ft²

This 20 East 9th Street #7B (Brevoort East) pricing is fascinating

09/23/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,200,000.
05/12/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $2,150,000.
09/18/2008 Delisted temporarily by Halstead Property.
03/07/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,750,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,599,000

West81st - the "A" line sale at 90 William for under $900k was certainly interesting to us. When we first inquired about the "A" and "B" lines at 90 William over 2 months ago, they wouldn't even show us the available units because they were "out of your price range" and "well over $1MM". Blecch - still have nightmares about the meanish Corcoran agent over there.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/90-william-st-bewilliam.html

-DT

Sorry, no comps here, but since we were discussing the substantial new development inventory in the East Village/Alphabet City, I thought I'd mention one more I just noticed, 189 Ave. C (AKA 254 E. 12th St.). They seem to be pretty far along, windows in, interior work starting. Forgot to note the height, but it's taller than the walkups around it. 10 floors, maybe? No idea if they'll be condos or rentals, SE still has the lot listed as "Miscelaneous Garage or Gasoline Station (G9)Owned by ELEANORA'S RALTY COMP 2 floors."

Brownfield? I don't remember a gas station on B this far north (but ahhh, the "Gas Station" @ 2nd St. from days of yore).

173 Perry Street 13N:

STREETEASY HISTORY
01/07/2008
Previous Sale recorded for $5,400,000.
05/08/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $4,495,000.

this is 17% off the same unit sale from a year ago, but still way above the 2004 prices:

12/16/2004 #7N $2,465,000 -
08/25/2004 #12N $3,054,750

2004 pricing at 111 4th Ave.

Recorded Sales
04/30/2009 #8-N $690,000 -6.6% $739,000 ↓
07/29/2004 #7N $689,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/111-4-avenue-manhattan

What do you think about 59 william street? Is that similar to 90 williams. I bought the F line back in 07 and paid only 769sqft for it.. I am still up with my purchase, feel like a genius here. 1800sqft, i cant belive that A line at 90 william went for 800sqft. Please provide feedback on the 59 William street building.. My maintiance is high though 2k per month. After such a downturn, I feel great to be up on my investment.

105 5th 7A

STREETEASY HISTORY
10/22/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by CBHK at $1,495,000.
11/06/2008
Price decreased by 6% to $1,399,000.
03/02/2009
Price decreased by 7% to $1,295,000.
03/26/2009
Price decreased by 3% to $1,250,000.
04/22/2009
Listing is no longer available.

STREETEASY HISTORY
05/11/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,175,000.

comps:
05/24/2007 #6A $1,550,000 -6.1%
12/06/2007 #4A $1,350,000 -3.2%

happyrenter.. thatz gotz a little more to go :) but gotta love higher floor lower price marketing... not long now till the seller tries the under $1MM market.... and in fact, that's the way I would've come out! Swinging for the fences.....

Millenium Towers is having some resale issues. Not that huge of a price chop, but when you think of the closing costs, that's got to hurt. Doubt this will get it done, though, too much available in the area.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/378081-condo-30-west-street-battery-park-city-new-york

05/07/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,836,000.
01/29/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $1,990,000.
03/20/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $1,790,000.
05/12/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,695,000.

Also at 30 West, 10G, bet they wish they could start the process over again. Chasing...chasing....

12/15/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $965,000.
05/29/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,395,000.
08/05/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,350,000.
09/03/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,295,000.
10/30/2008 Price decreased by 6% to $1,215,000.
12/03/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,175,000.
02/23/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $1,095,000.
03/12/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $995,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $925,000.

Last bust, for many of the buildings in BPC you literally couldn't give units away. There was even a building that virtually went on "rent strike" even though it was a condo - remember, BPC is the only place where you can have a land-lease condo.

518 East 11th Street

Recorded Sales:
05/04/2009 #2B $572,500
01/20/2006 #3B $685,000

This is a walkup building and the units face the rear, so 2B should be more valuable, but 3B was featured in House and Garden so it likely had a nicer interior. This sale seems to be in early-05 territory.

100 West 12th Street

Recorded Sales:
05/05/2009 #2C $600,000
06/01/2006 #4-C $750,000

Looks like a nice drop, but the link to the 2006 listing is broken so I can’t compare condition, and the 4th floor should be more valuable than the 2nd.

34 Gramercy Park East #5C in Gramercy Park.

$3M ($1,580/ ft2) down from $4.8M exactly a year ago. the layout is just not down with a claustrophobic in mind as it starts with the most weird & long "gallery". this was just a couple of days after #3AR (another 2BR/2Bth) went into mkt at $1.7M. the maintenance is 70% higher in the cheaper one for some reason.

4C with same layout was taken off mkt on Dec08' after starting out with same ask: $4.8M and dropping it less than 10%.

A lot of the units in 34 GPE are cut-ups, which is often a cause for odd share allocations. but in addition, if i recall correctly, the A and B original lines faced the park (at least in a room or 2), whereas the C line faced all light wells except for one room facing South onto the street, and even that isn't much of a view. So it wouldn't be surprising for any part of a former A or B line to have significantly more shares per SF than any part of a C line.

Also, if I remember correctly, this is the oldest Coop in existence in Manhattan? And until about 10 - 15 years ago had this cool hydraulic elevator which was one of the first in a residential building.

Chelsea Mews, 148 West 23rd Street #7E

Same unit asking less than the owner paid in 2007, and less than the previous seller got in 2004.

10/11/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $655,000.
04/30/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $775,000.
12/20/2007 Brown Harris Stevens Listing sold. Last priced at $699,000.
12/20/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $695,000.
01/15/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $750,000.
03/03/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $699,000.
04/06/2009 Listing is no longer available.
04/08/2009 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
05/20/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $649,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/375237-coop-148-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

tenemental, good find, but the maintenance is still $700 more than it should for a 2/1 of that size. It's outrageous!

I agree, maintenance there is insane, but it's only up 6% since the 2007 sale, so from a comps perspective the sale shows some nice downward movement.

111 Fourth Avenue #1HI: Sold 5.6% below 2004 basis.
8/12/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,250,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/11713
09/13/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,549,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/348778-coop-111-fourth-avenue-east-village-new-york
09/23/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $1,395,000.
11/11/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $1,295,000.
02/18/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/22/2009 Sale recorded for $1,180,000
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/804028

At 2 Horatio St., this studio charts the course of the bubble in a prime (Bing & Bing) building in a prime neighborhood.

First this in 04:
Recorded Sales
09/22/2004 #8E $335,000

And this in 05:
Recorded Sales
04/05/2005 #9E $449,000

Then this peak moment in 07:
Recorded Sales
12/21/2007 #8E $600,000

Followed by this failed attempt to catch the tail end:
Previous Listings
09/19/2008 #6E $575,000 ↓ down from $625,000

And finally we return to where we started:
Recorded Sales
05/21/2009 #6E $350,000

A 2004 price and a seller who ended up accepting 44% below initial asking.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/2-horatio-street-manhattan

tenemental.. NIC ENICEN NICENCNICECE

Wow. Someone please introduce me to the 07 buyer/09 seller. I can get them a great deal on a bridge or three.

tenemental, keep giving me hope. the downtown market has been a stubborn beyotch, but down she must go. thanks for the post.

170 Second Avenue "D" line. The listing for #8D said "Must sell", and apparently, they meant it.
--------Recorded Sales--------------|--------Previous Listings----------
05/21/2009 . #8D .. $998,000 -11.7% |↓ $1,130,000 2 beds 1,110 ft²
01/08/2008 #10D $1,576,000 . +5.1% | . $1,500,000 2 beds 1 bath 1,100 ft²
06/29/2006 . #9D $1,300,000 . +8.8% | . $1,195,000 2 beds 2 baths 1,100 ft²

i love 170 second ave. if anyone has any negatives, i'd like to know (other than the obvious, i know it's on second avenue in the east village). this is one of those buildings i might consider down the road, even for a combo (actually especially for a combo, since most of the 2s here have only 1 bath).

05/21/2009 . #8D .. $998,000 -11.7% |↓ $1,130,000 2 beds 1,110 ft²

I'm not sure this is a "real sale". The seller is the Broker, who still has it being listed on the Elliman website as an active listing, and they usually remove the listings when they go into contract (as opposed to Corcoran, who leaves the listings up even post closing). There may be more going on here than meets the eye.

As far as the building, I have always liked it too, in part because it's really the only prewar doorman building in the "prime" East Village. But it was a fairly late conversion, so i would be wary of how much the Sponsor still holds (I don't know, but I'm guessing a significant amount. I know it was an issue in a sale I was involved in many years ago). Also, I'm not so sure combinations in this building are a good idea because usually combinations tend to work best in either low maintenance buildings or at least where one unit has been under allocated shares so that the combined unit ends up with a relatively lower average mtc/sf. besdies, if you look at the whole building floorplan, i don't know what 2 lines you would combine in any sort of economical way. OTOH, you don't need a combination: the best units in the building is a 5 room with 1 large bath which I have seen finagled into 1.5 baths and i think could reasonably easily be made into 2 full; but also the layout SOOOOOOO much better than the 2 BR.

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work there, 30yrs.

It's true that the seller was the listing agent, and the listing hasn't been deactivated yet, but it has been tagged as "Contract Signed" for nearly three months. If the seller is dealing with a family illness, it's not surprising that she neglected to promptly flag the listing as "Sold", especially if she has relocated to California.

Looks like a legitimate arm's length sale to me, albeit a distressed one.

By the way, your statement about Elliman removing in-contract listings does not jibe with my observation. For examples, check Ann C. Lenane's listing page:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/mainsite/agents/agents.aspx?BID=ALC#Mylistings

What's confusing is that if you open one of her eleven in-contrct listings, the "IN CONTRACT" icon is so small that the listing looks active.

Oh, it was a Coronet Properties conversion

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/25/nyregion/2-charged-in-fraud-of-co-op-shareholders.html

they may have recently changed their practice, then, because I know that whenever I used to try to see more listing detail than was in the system by going to the "broker's website", the in contract stuff always used to be totally vacant at Elliman.

As far as being an arms length transaction (or even possibly a somewhat falsely recorded one), I'll submit the fact that a broker must, by law, disclose that they are a principal when selling their own property (you should see some sort of statement like "broker-owner" or the like). Do you see anything like that on this listing? Does that prove anything? No. But when I see one thing which looks/smells funny for sure, I tend to give up the benefit of the doubt when I see others which could possibly be the same. however, I will also say i do now see when you get to her page (as opposed to the listing page) the unit is listed as "in contract" and I could swear it didn't say that when I looked at it the first time an hour ago.

At 49 West 12th Street, another downtown studio pummeling:

Active Listings
#9H
01/11/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Kurland Realty at $450,000.
02/06/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $419,000.
02/19/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $379,000.
05/31/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $349,000.

Now check the same line comp on a much lower floor:

Recorded Sales
06/18/2008 #2H $432,500

The listing for 2H even said it needed a gut renovation, while 9H is in move-in condition, if a little dated.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/search?search=49+West+12th+Street

39 Fifth Avenue "B" line: Large, prime Gold Coast 1BR.
--------Recorded Sales--------------|--------Previous Listings----------
05/28/2009 . #9B ... $900,000 -9.9% | ↓ $999,000 1 bed 1 bath
04/30/2008 . #7B $1,299,000 +0.0% | $1,299,000 1 bed 1 bath 875 ft²
03/05/2008 #12B $1,100,000 +0.0% | $1,100,000 1 bed 1 bath
12/20/2006 . #2B ... $367,500 ........| (family transfer)
08/29/2006 . #8B $1,185,000 -3.3%| $1,225,000 1 bed 1 bath
09/08/2004 . #7B ... $800,000 -2.5% | ↓ $820,000 1 bed 1 bath

All things considered, this looks like a drop of 25% or more from peak, and a return to 2004 pricing. The main difference between #9B and the 2008 #7B resale was probably timing. The renovation of #7B was higher-end, and IMO more tasteful, though more original details were likely lost. #12B was a sponsor wreck.

As recent contracts close at Chelsea Stratus, honorable mention goes to Stevejhx, who singled out the building as an example of disastrous rent/buy math. Sure enough, even the recent, deep price cuts haven't caught up to the market.
Compare the pre-occupancy sale of #22D...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/88662-condo-101-west-24th-street-chelsea-new-york
to the recent closing of #24D:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/85884-condo-101-west-24th-street-chelsea-new-york
That's a drop of over 25%. Identical apartment, higher floor, finished product.

At 2 King Street, a higher floor unit claiming a "meticulous renovation" goes for 23% less than a mid-2007 sale.

Recorded Sales
05/29/2009 #5C $496,000
06/14/2007 #2C $649,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/2-king-street-manhattan

At 333 E. 14th St., -18% since mid-08. Striking distance, Julia!

Recorded Sales
05/28/2009 #6L $345,000
07/23/2008 #5L $425,000

The listing we discussed above at the Brevoort (Another huge cut on #2G at 11 Fifth Avenue (Brevoort):)

is now listed as sold at last list price of $1,050,000.

The buyer is listed as the third brevoort corp (or something like that) at 11 Fifth Avenue. Does this mean the co-op itself bought it?

142 E. 16th Street #11C. Same unit sale for 16% below 2005 price.

StreetEasy History
10/11/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $490,000.
03/06/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $465,000.
03/09/2009 Listing is no longer available.
03/10/2009 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
03/31/2009 Listing entered contract.
06/01/2009 Listing sold.
06/01/2009 Sale recorded for $410,000.
06/09/2009 Listing sold.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/389957-coop-142-east-16th-street-gramercy-park-new-york

"The buyer is listed as the third brevoort corp (or something like that) at 11 Fifth Avenue. Does this mean the co-op itself bought it?"

From looking at UUC's pledging what looks like the whole building as collateral, it would appear so.

also http://appsext8.dos.state.ny.us/corp_public/CORPSEARCH.ENTITY_INFORMATION?p_nameid=263704&p_corpid=221591&p_entity_name=THE%20THIRD%20BREVOORT%20CORPORATION&p_name_type=A&p_search_type=BEGINS&p_srch_results_page=0

and

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_dwnzgw

sorry, that's UCC's.

I'm feeling some sympathy here. First floor apartment with issues, but the listing history is what it is.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391383-condo-248-east-31st-street-kips-bay-new-york

08/26/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,329,000.
01/29/2007 Corcoran Listing sold. Last priced at $1,295,000.
01/29/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,270,000.
08/02/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,450,000.
03/01/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,050,000.
03/12/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $999,000.
04/03/2009 Listing entered contract.
06/12/2009 Listing is no longer available.
06/14/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.

447 West 18th Street (Chelsea Modern), mid-floor "A" line.
--------Recorded Sales--------------|--------Previous Listings----------
06/05/2009 #6A $1,867,500 -10.0% |↑ $2,075,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,431 ft²
10/16/2008 #7A $2,115,000 +0.0% | . $2,115,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,431 ft²
09/29/2008 #8A $2,140,000 +0.2% | . $2,135,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,431 ft²
09/04/2008 #5A $2,035,000 +0.0% |↑ $2,035,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,431 ft²

Overall, #6A isn't a bad result for Corcoran and Madison Equities - especially if the buyer who previously went to contract had to leave all or part of his deposit behind.

4 west 21st, that's some loss.

07/17/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,615,000.
10/24/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,885,000.
09/25/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prime Manhattan at $1,992,150.
09/30/2008 Price decreased by 1% to $1,975,000.
10/03/2008 Price decreased by 11% to $1,750,000.
10/30/2008 Price decreased by 9% to $1,600,000.
12/16/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $1,575,000.
04/21/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,525,000.
04/21/2009 Listing entered contract.
06/02/2009 Listing sold.
06/02/2009 Sale recorded for $1,325,000.

At 20 Pine, is this the bloodbath I think it is?

Recorded Sales:
06/10/2009 #2301 $550,000
07/11/2008 #2401 $920,000
06/13/2008 #2201 $965,000

Splitting the difference between 2201 and 2401, this is a 41% drop.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/20-pine-street-new_york

At District, 60 Ann St.

Recorded Sales:
06/05/2009 #513 $675,000
12/10/2008 #813 $822,500
11/18/2008 #613 $880,000
11/18/2008 #713 $880,000

813 managed some negotiaition, but 513 went for 23% less than late 08 comps. They're still asking $810k for 413. Don't think that's going to happen.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/60-ann-street-new_york

At the Christodora House, 143 Avenue B, one of the top buildings in the East Village, a late-2004 closing price.

Recorded Sales:
06/11/2009 #9D $585,000
12/07/2004 #7D $575,000

The unit was advertised as gut renovated with TOL appliances, so condition was definitely not a factor.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/143-avenue-b-manhattan

tenemental - 20 Pine = wow. Other ones not bad either.

all of them interest me, but the one i find most illuminating is the sale at Christadora House. extreme lack of inventory in this neighborhood, and still this sale with a conforming loan.

Quite interesting on 20 Pine - according to prior listings, #2301 is an 827 sq ft studio with HO that was listed as recently as April for $980,000. The final sales price was $665/sq ft which is pretty consistent with what we've been seeing in that building recently. The sponsor has been doing a great job of moving those apartments.

We also thought the sale at 3 Hanover Sq #3A was quite a price chop at $360,000:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/155670-coop-3-hanover-square-financial-district-new-york

Here's a link to our write-up of that sale:

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/06/ring-ring-ring-420-per-sq-ft-sale-in.html

-DT

368 West 23rd #3F (I think Chelsea goes here, rather than in Midtown comps). Same unit resale 19% above 2005. From the listing description I think they did a reno. Also above a same line 2007 sale.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/403872-coop-368-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york
06/15/2009 #3F $652,500 -6.7% $699,000 Sold
06/13/2007 #2F $610,000 +1.8% $599,000
05/13/2005 #3F $550,000

aboutready, there are a bunch of long unwanted (and often unlisted) boutique condo units in the East Village, with many more soon to come on line. It's only a matter of time before one of these buildings cries uncle.

There really is no building in the EV which is comparable to Christadora House (I've owned a few units in there, sort of).

30yrs, I was responding to abouready's on about EV inventory.

The downward march at the Oculus (50 West 15th) continues.

Further up this page, aboutready noted the developer bailing on 5C 16% below ask (and similar amounts below where 4C and 6C closed last fall). They've since sold 7C another 4.4% lower (21% below ask) and 4E 24% below ask and the same percentage below the average of the 3E and 5E prices. This last trade is a notable bummer for the original (October 2008) buyer who is currently trying to flip 7E. I'll also note that the developer has three more contracted sales in the pipeline, so there will be more news in the C, D and E lines. Price history below:

06/02/2009 #4E $1,190,000
12/05/2008 #1E $1,520,000 (NB: not sure if same floor plan)
11/20/2008 #6E $1,650,000
10/30/2008 #3E $1,535,000
10/28/2008 #5E $1,610,000
10/28/2008 #7E $1,645,000
2E is currently in contract

05/07/2009 #7C $1,625,000
03/17/2009 #5C $1,700,000
11/18/2008 #4C $1,995,000
10/30/2008 #3C $1,965,000
10/29/2008 #6C $2,065,000
2C is currenty in contract

The only good news for owners here is that the developer is pretty much done clearing inventory. I did a quick scan of the closings on each floor and it looks as if all or almost all are accounted for between closings, in contract listings and the remaining listing of 1A.

Also note a lot of rentals in this building. 17 closed or listed out of about 40 closings. Call it 40%. Presumably indicative of a high proportion of investors in the buyer base.

Since taking over from SHVO at 650 Sixth Avenue (White Space), Corcoran seems to have received the developer's blessing for some unpublished price cuts.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
06/19/2009 #5K $1,275,000 -24.8% |↓ $1,695,000 1 bed 2 baths 1,230 ft²
03/27/2009 #4K $1,250,000 -25.4% |↓ $1,675,000 1 bed 2 baths 1,230 ft²
08/19/2008 #2K $1,550,000 - 9.6% | . $1,715,000 Sold 1 bed 2 baths 1,234 ft²
05/22/2008 #6K $1,535,000 ........ |