If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Upper West Side Edition

west81st,

correct me if i am wrong, but that 771 west end number is pretty shocking, right? it is in the 90s, so not ultra-prime UWS, but i think this classifies as a mid-tier, rather than a bottom-tier, classic six. it's significantly bigger, brighter, and better-laid-out than, say, 755 west end 5C (or 3B for that matter). aside from the somewhat truncated length of the living room i'd say it is an almost perfectly-laid-out six--side-by-side living/dining, a large maidsroom that really can work as a bedroom with its own bath, a bedroom hallway, with no rooms entered by walking through another room, a second bath that is accessible from a hallway so guests don't need to walk through a bedroom, and even the possibility of converting the dining room to a 4th bedroom.

if this apartment sells for not much more than $1 million, watch out.

HR: The shocking thing might be that it's no longer shocking.

Two months ago, #9B was on the market for $2.15MM. It has more light than #5B, a window in the MBR facing the river and through-wall A/C. On the inside, #5B might be a nicer apartment. #9B was reduced once when #5B came on the market, then pulled altogether. $2.15MM was an absurd price (from the same broker who has 251 W89 #3F, as it happens), but it's a useful reminder of sell-side psychology that prevailed until recently. As Q1 ends, though, the new price on #5B looks like just another milestone on the way to wherever we're going, and that dead listing for #9B is a relic of a bygone era.

Equally interesting, as other posters have noted, is what the movement in sixes might mean for larger apartments. A $645K gap between #5B and #5A (the classic seven next door) seems unsustainable, although #5A already looks decently priced by the standards of, say, two weeks ago. Meanwhile, the heirs to #7A seem to be in their own world, still asking $2.6MM after ten months. Reading between the lines of the broker's comments on that one, however, the price may not be as sticky as it looks if anyone has the courage to make a bid.

200 west end avenue. Many units coming on sale now. Some owned by the same owner.

Any thoughts on how far the markdown should be from where the owner purchased them two years ago?

w81st,
the courage to make a bid of 1.6? i mean, how long do these people want to keep an empty, depreciating apartment? i agree that 5B/5A looks out of wack now, it makes me wonder if the people who got what looked like a steal at 755 are starting to regret it.

EEE1: I love 200 WEA (I don't own there, am not a broker). Views are not great until you are at least 23rd floor and up, facing north, west & east. People paid outlandishly high prices for the apts. The sponsor is fine as they closed on most of the units, they have maybe 10(?) left based on ACRIS and pshark.com. I think you would be extremely foolish to pay more than 1000/sqft for a unit there given rental prices and market conditions.

I'm interested in the BC combo (high floor) and waiting to see if any open up at distressed prices.

Does anyone know anything about the building at 112 West 72nd Street? I am considering buying an apt there.

15 West 81st Street, Apt 6/7 C just went into contract. Last listing price was $4.5 million. I think this apartment was discussed somewhere recently but can't remember where. I assume it's in need of renovation (possibly even an estate sale), and I would guess it went to contract at 3.9 at the lowest. This is a natural duplex as far as I can tell, and the only possible comp would be 8C, but it's not clear whether 8C is a duplex with 9. Does anyone know more about this?

10/24/2006 #8C $4,500,000

250 West 94th "C" line. Large five. DR can be converted or divided (as in #6C and #15C). Maint. ~$1500.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT .... #8C .......................... |↓ $1,295,000 2 beds 1,650 ft²
CONTRACT .. #15C .......................... |↓ $1,549,000 3 beds 1,650 ft²
03/13/2009 #10C .......................... |↓ $1,595,000 Off-Market 2 beds 2 baths 1,600 ft²
07/07/2008 . #6C $2,040,000 -0.5% | . $2,050,000 Sold 3 beds 2 baths 1,600 ft²

#8C just dropped to $1.295MM, down from an initial ask of $1.495MM in December. It appears to be in similar condition to #15C, an heirless estate that went to contract in February asking $1.549MM; the selling price was substantially lower, though I don't know the exact number. #6C is a tricky comp because it was renovated, but #15C wasn't really that bad. Mostly, it needed a new kitchen and some freshening. I think #8C is being suqeezed from two directions: one is the contract price on #15C, which could be a shocker when it prints; the other is #10H, the big, price-chopping six that we have discussed previously. #10H is down to $1.495MM, and each reduction pushes the "C" line down too. The same forces that are squeezing #8C may have pushed #10C off the market altogether. Perhaps it will reappear with a more adept agent.

8C is also being squeezed by apartments like 5B at 771 that west81st pointed us to yesterday--a perfectly acceptable classic six asking around the same price. 8C is indeed quite large and well-laid-out for a five room apartment, but it's still a five room apartment and lacks the flexibility of a six. it's also on broadway at 94th street, which i would say is not quite as desirable as 771, located at 97th and west end.

i should add that the 771 unit may also put additional pressure on 10H at 250 west 94th.

255 W. 84th STreet 12A sold for $2.3mm.

There is a sale listed for $3.3 million in 6/2005, with no apartment number. However, that buyer filed a document with the city in 2006 and listed address as 11A.

This suggests that the "A" line has fallen from $3.3 million in 2005 to $2.3 million today, or some 35%. Since 2005 was arguably 25% to 35% below peak price, that suggests current price of "A" line is 45% to 50% below peak.

Can anyone confirm that it was 11A which sold for $3.3 milliion in 2005?

225 West 83rd (Bromley) #23BD: same unit resale.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
03/23/2009 #23BD $1,750,000 ........ |
04/23/2008 #23BD $2,050,000 ........ |

With no public listings, it's hard to know whether these were arm's length transactions. The seller has executed several transactions in the building, and he's an entrepreneur, so there may be more to the story than just a poorly-timed purchase.

Revisiting the "C" line at 473 WEA. Classic six; high floors glimpse the river from DR and BRs. #4C just cut again. The brokers have mentioned near-deals on both apartments. Either that was hot air, or they may have fallen through.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT .. #11C .......................... |↓ $1,950,000 2 beds 1,700 ft²
CURRENT .... #4C .......................... |↓ $1,725,000 2 beds
05/08/2006 #14C $2,400,000 -4.0% |↓ $2,500,000 Sold 2 beds 3 baths
07/29/2004 #12C $1,825,000 ...... |

#14C was a sponsor reno - nothing special - but with nice open views that do set it and #11C apart from #4C. I've seen both #11C and #4C; I'd say the current price difference makes some sense, but they both might need to come down farther.

beautiful 4.5 room home at the ardsley keeps coming down:
320 CPW 6DE
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/07/2008
Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,830,000.
10/26/2008
Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,425,000.
11/07/2008
Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,399,000.
03/19/2009
Delisted temporarily by Brown Harris Stevens. Last priced at $1,275,000.
04/01/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,195,000.

recorded sales
08/04/2008 #4DE $1,685,000 -0.6%

28% below the same line comp from earlier this year.

HR, I just saw the Ardsley listing in one of my daily SE emails. Who would have thought that a decent-sized 2BR on CPW would go to $1.2m. I also noticed a new listing at 145 West 86th St
1,400 ft� 2 beds 2 baths listed at $1.2m

The last sale in the D line of 145 West 86th, #11D sold in Jan 2007 for 1.4m judging from the Corcoran web site (didn't bother to check ACRIS). What makes the listing notable is that it could easily become a respectable open-plan 3BR. It seems to fit joedavis' original criteria for a 3BR/2BA on the UWS for under $1.25m, although his criteria have moved with the times and he's now looking for a classic 7 at that price point :-)

There are some differences in condition - 11D didn't need a kitchen when it sold and didn't advertise that new baths were needed, but I thought it was still worth posting.

Looks as though the Normandy may join the list of "name" buildings returning to relative affordability:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1099573

Don't know the line or exact floor, but the maintenance ($2527 for ~1350 sq.ft.) suggests this apartment would have opened at $2MM a year ago.

apt:
I don't find the Ardsley listing cheap at all. 1,100 f2, limited windows, no view of the park(why be on CPW if you can't see the park), asking almost $1,100 per f2. Seems rich. Might as well be on Columbus, call it $935,000.

P09: Kitchen looks like a Pullman too. Still, that #4DE comp is pretty compelling. Different layout, and a very smart renovation, but looks like the same footprint on a lower floor. #6DE isn't cheap in any absolute sense, but it's a whole lot cheaper than it would have been a year ago.

267 West 71st #1R. Same-unit resale.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
03/23/2009 #1R $995,000 -28.9% |↓ $1,399,000 2 beds 2 baths 1,600 ft²
12/20/2005 #1R/1F $1,365,000 -
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/181700-coop-267-west-71st-street-lincoln-square-new-york
Originally listed at $1.65MM last February, just before the seller closed on a new place at Ariel East. No mortgage on that one in ACRIS, so she's probably OK.

101 at 225 CPW is no longer available. Think it sold or was it pulled off the market? It doesn't list it was in contract.

91 Central Park West #14A. Estate nine. LR, Library and corner MBR face park. BRs face south with side park/skyline views (and direct views of Robert DeNiro in the shower, possibly).
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
03/31/2009 #14A $5,650,000 -23.6% |↓ $7,400,000 4 beds 5.5 baths
06/23/2008 . #8A $7,250,000 +0.0% | $7,250,000 Sold 3 beds 4 baths
06/20/2005 . #8A $4,875,000 ......... |

Not sure what to make of this one. Photos indicate condition isn't too bad (see http://www.lesliegarfield.com/index.cfm?action=Properties&subaction=detail&AptID=446423&aptpub=9505). The 14th floor should obviously commands a huge premium over the eighth.

Back story on this one shows ex-Lehman MD "trading down" from the Langham. Looks like their old place is available for rent, at the bargain price of $29K/month. http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1534610

you don't know what to make of a 14th floor, nine room, southeast-corner, park-facing central park west apartment on the best stretch of the avenue selling for under $6 million and 23.6% off the final asking price? unless the place is a complete dump, this is major movement.

... or a brooch... or a pterodactyl. But yes, "major movement" seems right.

Actually, the movement is even more dramatic than it looks. Compare the floorplan of #8A (http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/33/2439933.jpg) with #14A (http://www.brokersnyc.com/Pictures/aptpics/f446423_9505_.jpg)

If your reaction is anything short of OMFG, you're missing something important.

HR: I don't want to read too much into a single data point, and I'm not sure what 2003 pricing at 91 CPW (a very nice but relatively obscure coop) will mean for bankable addresses like 88 and 101, let alone for the landmark CPW name-brands. THere may even be extenuating circumstances that make this sale a unique situation.

Still, I think a prediction has been vindicated, and a possible turning point reached. For close to a year, you and I and a few others have been saying that estate sales would set the market for mid-luxe and low-luxe UWS pre-war product, and that there would be some shocking downward lurches as implausible lowball bids were accepted by heirs eager to cash out and stop paying maintenance.

Well, there it is, in black and white. This is the kind of sale that informed buyers like P09, LP, Dmf13, Dwell, Bfgross, nyc10023, YJBO, Kas242, Newbuyer99, w67th et.al. will wave under brokers' noses when they sniff at "insulting, lowball" offers. Game on.

So, what's an extra bedroom worth these days? Didn't the increment from three to four used to be something like $1M once?

Please drop me a brooch clue. I've got John Cleese in my head, but can't quite catch it.

NWT: It's from "Airplane"... but that's not important right now.

Hard to put a value on the extra south-facing bedroom (plus en-suite bath). They're in an awkward spot, off the dining room. If I had the money, I might have my architect look into moving the DR and turning the southwest portion of the apartment into a residential wing. In this market, the incremental value of the square footage might be down to the $500K range. That's just a guess.

I must be a bit slow today, but I am not getting the same warm and fuzzy you guys are getting. I never went to see it because I thought it was ridiculous at 7.4mm. Even so, at a sales price of 5.6mm or so,it is still $2,240 or so per F2. Unless I completely mismeasured. Is that price point supposed to get me excited? Around 1,600 I would be say OMFG. I think we had a similar discussion about the recent in contract El Dorado listing. Then again, maybe for now, it is only the challenged ones that are facing 1,100-1,400 ranges..i.e..225 cpw, low floor beresford and Kenilworth. We'll have to wait a bit to see those results.

ROFL now I remember. Have to look that guy up.

Speaking of awkward, I hope Garfield didn't pay much to have that floorplan patched together. Dimensions don't jibe, mysterious absence of door to living room, etc.

Anyway, I'd keep it as-is. Good for keeping guests out of the way. Love that genteel-old-people, not trying too hard look, too, with the refrigerator in the pantry

Unfortunately, I already own. Luckily, no need to move now or next 20 years.

BTW, the A-line at 91 CPW is an 8-room, at some point 14A bought a bedroom from the C-line (no park views). That is why the bedroom is off the dining room.

patient09, it's early days yet to see that kind of apartment get back down to the level you want to see. Traditionally it'd be the kind of place the ~$1M partner, say, would have. The people who'd live *under* that 25% rule.

Agree with the 1m partner. The 1m partners who have that kind of place now generally graduated in the late 70s. Though female partners will always try to stay in the city w/ or w/o kids.

14A at 91 CPW does seem like significant movement....but I also agree with P09 that an apt. in a good (not great) building with an odd floor plan (bedroom off the DR) that needs a renovation that sells for over $2,000/sq. ft. does not indicate that the luxury market has reset at a much lower level than the past few months.

If this apt. would have sold for $3,000/sq. ft. at the top of the market, it just sold for 25% off of that price, far less of a drop than many here are predicting and hoping for.

P09: We're just celebrating the end of the beginning. When YOU buy, it will mark the beginning of the end.

Nobody knows where the ride will take us; 91 CPW is just, as you would say, "one print on the way down." The OMFG wasn't for the price, which is still a lot of lira for an estate sale in a second-tier coop. It was strictly my reaction to the difference between the footprints, and what that difference means in terms of market movement. Wherever we're going, we seem to be getting there rather rapidly.

By the way, I think the footprint is closer to 2800 than 2500, and most brokers would round it to 3000.

91 CPW, 14A (or A + 1br) is huge as far as a solid 2009 comp on lower CPW goes. Hey, if it were a new condo, they'd probably say it was 3500 sqft.

YJBO,
How exactly do you arrive at a 25% decline? This apartment has an added bedroom and six additional floors (which makes a big difference for all those south-facing rooms) over a unit that sold for 22% more. I'd add 15% for the higher floor, and at least 500k for the additional bedroom, which gets you to $8.8 million. You can take off off 800k for the renovation, although, quite frankly, with these trophy apartments I don't think people were paying much for a renovation at the peak, since almost everything that changed hands was getting renovated. This is a decline of at least 30%, using my conservative numbers, but my sense is that this is more like 35-40% off.

How does that 'not indicate that the luxury market has reset at a much lower level'?

10023: Thanks. Whatever the right sqaure footage may be, it's a honking big apartment. Here's a coop that was listed as 3100, and I think they're very similar in overall footprint: http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/24/2479524.jpg (LP will recognize it).

161 West 86th #8A has one extra bedroom - not a very big one - fewer bathrooms and less storage. Some rooms are bigger, some are smaller, but overall they match up pretty evenly. Is it really 3100? I doubt it.

The fundamental problem is that broker square footage is all over the place, so PPSF is a tricky metric to apply evenly unless you verify the square footage and/or adjust it. Maybe we need two different metrics to achieve clarity: I would say #14A+ sold for $1800 PBSF (per broker sq.ft.) and $2000 PRSF (per real sq.ft.).

West81st, right, that's what bothers me about this whole $psf thing. We all want to quantify, but can't with this. If one of your numbers has no meaning, you have to discard it. When there isn't even a standard for calculating condo-unit size (face of window vs. face of wall, blah blah,) where are you?

Aaah that old chestnut. Someday that apartment will come back on the market, and they're going to list it at the right price . . . and then someone else will buy it before I can get my ducks in a row to bid on it no doubt.
But seriously, west81 or any other lurkers, is anyone surprised 161 w 86th is still off the market? It's been several months now, and it's not like the old tenant came back to life and started living there again . . .

HR...I was using P09's estimate of $2,240 per sq. ft. and just speculating that this apt. may have sold for $3,000 per sq ft at the peak.

your #'s may well be more accurate, i.e., we may well be down over 35% from the peak

I didn't mean to suggest that the market isn't way down (in fact, I'm closing on an apt. next week--obviously at a price well beneath the peak).....my intention was to question whether the market has reset at a much lower level "than the past few months"

LP: You have mail.

Oh you pretty thing you. I don't actually know how to check my work email here, but will be looking forward to it 1st thing Monday. You go girl! Thanks again.

YJBO... so you're the one buying on the way down... boy you must have the ballz of an elephant.

And yes, the market has reset at a much lower rate than when you went into contract... I'm not gonna sugar coat it for you, you lost $300K on anything above $2MM, $500K on anything above $3MM and $100K in the $1MM range....

The funny thing is you ain't seen nothing yet... wait till this time next year when all my I-banking friends (that actually r employed) get their second pat on the back instead of a bonus... it'll sink into them then... I still think people wish/hope this is a one year blip....

And, why the hell r you on SE if you just bought... I promised myself when I pull the trigger.. I'd get off this site.... too many bears lurking about... :)

161 w 86 (which I loved) is rented for 2 years...

161 w 86th. Isn't this the one I went to the open house a year ago. Total garbage. possible future restricted views because of the church. Big thread 5 months ago about. Man, that place was nasty. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I was digging the assistant broker, an eastern european or russian girl, very sexy.

easy, tiger.

The church next door may get landmarked status, thus squelching the development...

nice, lol, thanks, been a bit since a cutie called me tiger!

West 81st - thanks for including me in the list of people who will be making insulting low-ball offers one of these days. Exactly the plan, maybe starting this fall, maybe in 2010, depending on a host of things.

I did have the OMFG reaction to the 91CPW comp, not because I think $2000+ prsf is a great deal, but (a) because of the decline compared to a lower-floor, smaller comp, i.e. I agree with HR's math and logic and (b) because of the difference between final ask and closing price.

Can someone enlighten me regarding the 1m partner? Are you talking partners at law firms? And are you saying someone making $1MM/year can afford a $5-8MM place? I am probably just confused

I was thinking whatever $1M was in 1990 dollars, before the boom. Not wildly wealthy, but more so than most. The people on CPW or Fifth or Park (or those discreet side-street buildings on park blocks) who didn't know what "trophy apartment" meant. Who'd think you'd be out of your mind to plow multiples of your income into just one of your houses.

nshipley: there was also another apartment in 161 west 86th in the same line that WAS specifically for rent at the same time that 8A was for sale. I just want to clarify, or make sure that you're clear, that in fact it is the much discussed, and sometimes maligned 8A that has in fact been rented for two years. Thanks in advance, Lp.

patient09: yes, it was that apartment. and no she wasn't the assistant. In fact she was the senior broker on the team of three working on the listing. maybe SHE would have called you tiger too if you hadn't asked her for two sugars in your coffee (laughing at the thought of it). Kirstin something or other is her name.

It was indeed 8A that has been both maligned and rented.

I think the name Ojdanic is Serbo-Croatian. Now can we get back to comps?

nshipley: interesting & many thanks.

West81, Nan and HR: Not my choice, but, ugh, ugh,ugh...If I decided to go over WEA or RSD, what is the single best apt on the market today. Lots of light, views, large(over 2,400 f2) 3+ beds, 2.5+ baths, great condition, 74th-84th? price is irrelevant. Just the unit itself. thanks in advance. We might do a bunch of shopping today, beautiful day for a walkabout.

I know you're not a townhouse person, but why not explore a little? This just came on the market (ignore the price). It's a great block, mint condition, and has all of the things you're looking for in a grand apartment, except the maintenance and the obsequious doorman. Who knows, maybe you'll fall in love...
http://www.sothebyshomes.com/nyc/sales/0016312

There's really nothing else currently on the market that speaks to your needs (either too small or not renovated). 470 WEA looks nice, but the views aren't great. I do like 160 RSD, but it's probably no more than 2100 sf (if that). and it's 88 street, which I think is slumming in your book.

There is an apartment that I know of that is NOT on the market, but it's on CPW in a building you like. please e-mail me for more info. It's a long story.

Nan, and it has central AC! Funny that's not mentioned in the ad, or is that taken for granted in a townhouse?

p09: Would you consider up another 2 blocks to 86th? If even maybe, go look at 535 WEA - if only so I can know someone who's taken a look.

W81:
Thanks for the shout out. And sorry I missed this from yesterday.
I think the sale at 91 CPW is a significant print on the way down. I happen to have friends who have a park view high floor apt in the building, and its a very very solid coop building. Reminds me a lot of 239 CPW, no bold-faced names, just a classically beautiful prewar in an exceptional location with all the trimmings. Just no name brand.
I would also say this footprint is closer to 3,000 sq ft than P09's numbers, so by my calculations it sold for 1800 a foot. We can argue about that.
But lets just agree on something:
Here is perhaps the single most desirable apartment in the building, a fourteenth floor, southeast corner nine in at least decent condition for 5.6 million.
How in the world is that not significant movement?
Heck. a seventh floor eight in the White House (262 CPW) sold for 6.9 million nine months ago. Yes that one was nicely renovated but still. This is a better building, more space on arguably the best floor in a slightly more desirable stretch of the avenue.
It's MAJOR movement.
It's inconceivable to me that this apartment's value didn't start with an 8 a year ago.
And my prediction remains: in a year from now, even these apratments will drop from the high teens psf to the low teens psf. 1200 psf will be a ceiling for all but the absolute most special apartments in the most special buildings.

bfg, 81, yjb:
Hey before you guys throw me off the bus, let me clarify a touch. As I stated in previous post, "or so", never measured, just eyeballed. The floor plan is a bit murky on my screen. But, I calculate a cute little rectangle 59' * 46' = 2,714 F2. That still comes to $2,063 per F2. I am simply stating that to me, thats not cheap or good value. Yes it represents good movement, I will stipulate that. If we are all to be correct that an adjustment process is starting to let some air out of the bubble, then we need to see trades like this on the way.

P09: Best fit currently on the market:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/347701-coop-33-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

LP: The 535 sales office is (was?) in the Belnord. Nifty piece of cross-marketing.

09:
I think we are in total agreement.
The 91 CWP sale represents good movement.
And yet it is neither cheap nor represents good value.

lp: I may in fact do that some day. When it is closer to closings. (It hasn't started yet has it?). Just seems odd that this building is commanding, what $2,300-3,300 per F2, in the middle of, of ,of $800-$1,200 F2 land. Seems wierd. I would rather have CPW cheaper.
I did however, 2 weeks ago pay a visit to the Harrison, they still have some inventory to travel. Closings start in June, maybe mid summer might be a time to bid on some of the inventory for those that like the area.

81: That 33 RSD looks pretty schweet, might need to get wifey to go take a look.

p09? don't see what's odd about it - park views, prime CPW. Will always be more pricey than other apts.

nyc10023: my comment to lp was in regard to 535 WEA

Don't see the value of 535WE at all. Uninspiring layouts, exterior. Love 33RSD, was about to suggest that. Or you can make an offer on 14B and 14A (not on the market) and do some work combining. Can't remember if you're into that.

33 RSD is gorgeous, wow.

i love the 535 layouts on plan actually. and if the finishes come out the way the website makes it look I think it will be a special building. As for premium to CPW - I think that's a fair point, and I don't think it's (at all) well priced, but they seem to have signed a fair number of contracts, particularly the full floor units. I agree p09 that for that ppsf one ought to find some spectacular apartments on CPW also but the inventory just isn't really there now, and I suspect that with sales volumes so low, and the trend so clearly down, people who might have sold but can afford not to (a la rich folk who are still rich) will simply sit out this time in the market.

535 wea feels like the brompton, lucida, harrison and the various buildings on rsb rolled into one. at current levels, this is ridiculously overpriced based on what could be bought and rehab'd but in much better locations. just as the other buildings mentioned are not located in A+++ prime territory, neither is 535 WEA. 86 & wea is not the 70's on wea or the drop dead view buildings on rsd.

when will people learn?

One issue with 33 RSD for some high-end buyers might be the lack of depth in the public rooms. I understand what the architect was going for, and it works on its own terms; but the fact is that thirteen feet just isn't a grand space. On the positive side, every part of those rooms is close to the windows, and the enfillade geometry ties the apartment together in a way you might not expect in a combination.

"enfilade", left Sun Tzu and on to Napolean, very nice!

And the mirrored window jambs, though so '70s, really work.

OK, enough luxe. There's a six-figure market too, and we're neglecting it here.

317 West 87th #3B. Same-unit resale of a junior four. Down 10% from a pre-peak price.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
03/24/2009 #3B $640,000 -7.1% |↓ $689,000 Sold 1 bed 1 bath 800 ft²
02/17/2006 #3B $706,000 +4.6% | . $675,000 1 bed 1 bath 800 ft²

Majestic, #7A, 3 rooms facing the park, 2,500 F2 in contract.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/359323-coop-115-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

No windows in the second bedroom? That has to be a drawing eror, right?

300 West End Ave. 4A just went into contract (listed at $4.1mm. The listing was 21% below where 5A closed last year. Looks like a combo was intended for 5AB but didn't work out. That's an expensive mistake. Goofy purchase to begin with.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/300-west-end-avenue-manhattan

Active Listings (3)
↓ $10,950,000 300 West End Avenue #5AB 6 beds
↓ $5,475,000 300 West End Avenue #5A 4 beds
↓ $5,475,000 300 West End Avenue #5B 4 beds 3,800 ft²

Listings in Contract (1)
↓ $4,100,000 300 West End Avenue #4A 4 beds

Sales history
10/23/2006 #5B $5,562,500 -
10/23/2006 #5A $5,187,500 -8.2% $5,650,000 3 beds 3.5 baths 3,600 ft²

Must be, as that bedroom was about all that was left alone in reconfiguring the apt.

And FWIW, 91 CPW 14A is a damn fine apartment that I'd call 2800 sq ft so we're right around $2,000 per. That is still a big chunk of change and indicates just how far afield from reality the market had gone.

The location is truly ideal to me. If I had the money, that is where I'd choose to live (+/- 3 or 4 blocks)

walt: yep, agree, damn shame though. wallet not quite that thick!..my bid is a bit lower

Walter, 5AB had already been combined, for many years, when Ms. Disney bought it in 2006 from Harry Belafonte. The story is that after the landlord wouldn't rent to him in the '60s, he bought the building and later sold it off as a co-op.

I thought the Belfontes kept the apartments separate and used one as the residence, the other for entertaining/visitors. Their son did the same thing with adjacent apartments at 425 WEA, which he has been trying to sell for over a year.

Pretty sure I saw a picture of the enfilade (!) across the WEA end, but my memory's shot. One side was definitely more office-y and other more bedrooms, so suspect you're right.

esplanade?

No, that's across the street, with a e, I think.

Enfilade is three or more rooms in sequence, with the doors between them on axis, ideally with a window or fireplace or mirror on the same axis at one or both ends.

Word of the week.

Oh!, sorry for my comments yesterday, I always referred to from a military strategy point of view.

the apartments at 300 west end were what i would call partially combined--the enfilade across the front of the apartment is real, but they left two kitchens and turned half of one apartment into extensive office and storage space.

but this is old news; 4A went into contract months ago.

nwt: LOL - I thot you were saying that you saw the (insert word) here across WEA - yes, enfilade is the word of the week - west81 used it in a thread over the weekend. Once upon a time when I thot I had found the apartment I was destined to live in I was very excited to think about the rooms in enfilade we were going to create . . . someday!

Yeah, me too, when the one-bedroom next door was available for $150K, but at the time thought it was too pricey....

Near and dear to my broken heart :)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376410-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/372883-condo-1965-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york

11E just chopped $200K, Mr. Reed... you are way behind curve on your pricing.

Same broker... yeah.. .but $700K difference for 140 sf? what is that other broker thinking... OH SH_T!... my bad it's the same BROKER?!?!?!!? Does the left nut talk to the right one?

it looks like 17H is 3 exposures (north, south and west- the best three imo) and the other cheaper unit is 1.5 exposures because of tilted window but mostly faces east. the pricey one looks over lincoln center so it has protected views no?
it's still a huge difference but in this case i kind of get it.

jasonkyle... the "value" compression is happening in NYC RE. When I was growing up, people didn't want a CPW8 due to the carrying charges, most chose 6, some co-ops actually price CC higher the higher the floor you are on :(

In this market... 3 exp. vs. 1 will have very little premium........ just sit and watch young jedi.

hey west81st are you around? i just emailed you to ask for some advice.

407PAS still believe his little bedroom window will help

hey all just thought i'd get me SE fix.

jasonkyle... my answer didnt' sit well with me, so let me try that again.

Okay how about I buy you the recently chopped GM unit and take the extra $700K and buy you a 1 bdrm unit in the Toulaine or stretch a bit and get you a 2bdrm in lincoln towers to keep your cat? I know you have to walk like a whole block to your second manhattan pad, but NYC is all about sacrifices.

So how about it, $700K for a 140 sf and some extra views worth it to you? :)

A grand CPW trophy crosses into the red:
101 CPW #12E. Reduced $1.75MM today, the first movement in a year.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ..... #12E ............................. |↓ $10,750,000 4 beds 5.5 baths
11/29/2006 #12E $11,000,000 0.0% | . $11,000,000 3 beds 4 baths

#12E was purchased as an estate in 2006, but there's no indication that it was ever renovated.

Sorry - copy/paste error on the CURRENT line: should read "3 beds 4 baths".

neither is worth it to me. as i said i know there is a huge difference in price, too big of one. but i just get why that unit should be worth more. not THAT much more but more than a crappy east facing one.

and I have two cats so I would need two 2 bedrooms. please get to work on that.

670 WEA "C" line. Classic five. Maint.~$1800. Good building, though not as special as the Elliman broker for #12C paints it. Both apartments were in good condition. #8C was more "done".
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
04/03/2009 #12C $1,410,000 -2.4% |↓ $1,445,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
07/11/2007 . #8C $1,725,000 +8.2% | . $1,595,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths

565 WEA #16C. Serial resale. Just reduced $220K to $1.775MM, 24.5% below peak.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT..... #16C ........................ |↓ $1,775,000 2-3 beds 2 baths
10/16/2008 #16C $2,010,000 -6.5% | . $2,150,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,550 ft²
02/15/2008 #16C $2,350,000 +6.8% | . $2,200,000 3 beds 2 baths 1,550 ft²
Tough situation, but an opportunity for a predator with a taste for art deco.

2250 Broadway #8B. Same-unit resale.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
03/30/2009 #8B $1,320,000 -1.9% |↓ $1,345,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,100 ft²
01/03/2006 #8B $1,390,000 ...... |

don't u sleep?