If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Upper East Side Edition

1185 Park Avenue #7F: This is an unusual back-to-back same-unit estate sale, down 4.8% between contracts signed in January and November 2010. The February buyer passed away three months after closing his purchase. 09/15/2009 Listed by Gumley Haft Kleier at $4,200,000.
10/06/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $3,995,000.
01/02/2010 Listing entered contract.
02/25/2010 Sale recorded for $3,625,000.
08/20/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $3,850,000.
10/20/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $3,750,000.
11/16/2010 Listing entered contract.
12/29/2010 Sale recorded for $3,450,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/547679-coop-1185-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york

22 East 88th Street #6E: Resale of a big corner Carnegie Hill seven, up 2.1% in six years. Timing of renovations not clear.
01/06/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $3,550,000.
08/17/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $3,700,000.
10/07/2010 Listing entered contract.
12/28/2010 Sale recorded for $3,625,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/546884-coop-22-east-88th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

"Up 2.1%" in this case might mean up 30%, then down 25%, then up 5%. The only intermediate data point in the line is #8E, a wreck that sold at the bottom of the market for $2.1MM.

1250 Fifth Avenue "D" line: The most recent sales of this secondary Carpenter C6 layout illustrate some limits of market statistics.

#2D sold as a wreck in 2007, from the extensive portfolio of the conversion sponsor's heirs:
12/04/2006 Listed by Halstead Property at $1,950,000.
02/20/2007 Listing entered contract.
04/23/2007 Listing sold.
04/23/2007 Sale recorded for $1,925,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/56772-coop-1150-fifth-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york

After renovation, #2D returned to the market with an aspirational price and timing that could scarcely have been worse:
10/29/2008 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,100,000.
11/04/2008 Delisted temporarily.
11/11/2008 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
11/11/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $2,850,000.
01/06/2009 Price decreased by 21% to $2,250,000.
05/05/2009 Listing is no longer available.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360668-coop-1150-fifth-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york

Another sponsor unit, #3D, closed in January 2010 for $1.578MM:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/951846
#3D was never listed, so condition and any sponsor improvements included in the sale are unknown.

The most recent sale is #12D, which closed two weeks ago for $1.9MM. The seller purchased #12D from the sponsor's heirs in 2005, and sold it for slightly more than the original purchase price:
05/19/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,800,000.
01/22/2010 Listed by Halstead Property at $2,495,000.
05/15/2010 Listing is no longer available.
05/27/2010 Price decreased by 8% to $2,295,000.
06/02/2010 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
06/27/2010 Listing is no longer available.
07/09/2010 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
07/09/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $2,150,000.
10/04/2010 Price decreased by 7% to $1,999,000.
11/18/2010 Listing entered contract.
01/06/2011 Sale recorded for $1,900,000.

By most common statistical measures, values in the "D" line peaked in 2007, dipped severely in 2008-2009, then recovered completely in 2010. In terms of gross price, price per room and price per square foot, this line has returned to its 2007 level.

Of course, that narrative is nonsense. #12D is a fully renovated, high-floor apartment. #2D was a low-floor sponsor wreck. #2D did offer lower maintenance and a less intrusive approval process; but #12D was clearly a much more valuable property.

This line is an extreme example of why the popular market metrics should be taken with a grain of salt. I think some of the problems illustrated here may be fundamental. The theory behind using statistics is that, given a sufficiently large sample, variables like floor and condition should even out. Unfortunately, the sample size for some of the market stats is really quite small. (How many pre-war Carnegie Hill classic sixes sell in a given quarter?) Further, the composition of the sample may be distorted by market conditions, creating a circular effect: if properties with inferior light and views, or in rougher condition, linger on the market, sales will skew toward better apartments, pushing median prices up. Sellers of wrecks may invest in improvements that make their properties more marketable, again inflating the medians without any change to underlying values.

How much has the "D" line really dropped since 2007? On a per-share basis, the decline is about 20%, from $1528 for #2D to $1226 for #12D. The sale prices were almost identical, but #12D has substantially more shares. The drop would have been much more than 20% if the apartments had been in similar condition. Notably, #3D sold for $1214 per share - about the same as #12D - suggesting that any market "bounce" had largely played itself out by the end of 2009.

Is per-share valuation a good proxy for market value? In this case, I think it is, since the apartments are in the same line and the share-count difference seems reasonable for ten floors of elevation in that particular location, where high floors get a glimpse of Central Park. Unfortunately, there's no metric of similar quality that can be applied across buildings.

One important caveat, implied but not stated above: even within a building and/or line, valuations based on price-per-share do not capture differences in condition, and may be distorted by quirks in share allocation.

I also fat-fingered the address; it's 1150 Fifth, not 1250.

Nice work! (That was quite a renovation of 2D, following the suggestion of the 2007 ad and throwing in central AC and the whole shebang.)

good analysis

essential takeaway: it's nice to be a rand

straight studio, high mtc. but has been high for years, unit 3F. 5F closed for $264,200 01/06.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/520977-coop-330-east-70th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

05/11/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $299,000.
05/19/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $289,000.
06/08/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $279,000.
06/26/2010 Price decreased by 16% to $235,000.
11/17/2010 Price decreased by 2% to $230,000.
12/02/2010 Price decreased by 2% to $225,000.
01/20/2011 Price decreased by 11% to $199,999.

995 Fifth Avenue (Stanhope) #9S: Resale of museum-facing six-room condop with small bedrooms and big monthlies. Closed 18.7% below 2008 sponsor sale.
05/07/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Corcoran at $8,950,000.
12/11/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $7,991,418.
05/24/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $7,995,000.
11/16/2010 Listing entered contract.
01/06/2011 Listing sold.
01/06/2011 Sale recorded for $6,500,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/527439-condop-995-fifth-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york

another straight studio, 8B with new kitchen, 7B sold in 10/04 for $330,000

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/499168-coop-305-east-72nd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

02/26/2010 Listed by Warburg at $350,000.
06/09/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $335,000.
10/19/2010 Listing entered contract.
01/05/2011 Listing sold.
01/05/2011 Sale recorded for $300,000.

nice...this bodes well for my 1br which i got for under 300k

actually, marco, it's not the price but the trajectory of pricing that matters (and 305 east 72nd street isn't yorkville, but whatever). but i'm glad you're happy. green shoots and all that.

930 Fifth Avenue #18CD: Rambling combination with great views and room-size closets. Now asks 12.7% less than the sellers' early-2006 acquisition price.
03/23/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $8,300,000.
01/14/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $9,995,000.
03/03/2010 Price decreased by 10% to $8,995,000.
03/22/2010 Listing is no longer available.
07/22/2010 Re-listed by Corcoran.
07/22/2010 Price decreased by 11% to $7,990,000.
01/25/2011 Price decreased by 9% to $7,250,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/489041-coop-930-fifth-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york

116 East 66th Street #3B: Renovated Lenox Hill five, convertible to 3BR. Now asks 10% less than the sellers' mid-2006 acquisition price.
07/11/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,500,000.
06/30/2009 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,695,000.
10/02/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,545,000.
12/23/2009 Listing entered contract.
01/04/2010 Listing is no longer available.
01/29/2010 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
04/07/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $1,495,000.
10/14/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $1,450,000.
01/28/2011 Price decreased by 7% to $1,350,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/433212-coop-116-east-66th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

9 East 96th Street #PH: Full-floor penthouse with wraparound terraces. Now asks 26.1% less than the sellers' 2008 acquisition price. Same broker as previous sale, which sparked frenetic bidding.
03/29/2008 Previously Listed by Warburg at $6,495,000.
06/18/2008 Warburg Listing sold. Last priced at $7,495,000.
06/18/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $7,570,000.
05/08/2010 Previously Listed by Warburg at $7,295,000.
05/25/2010 Listed by Warburg at $6,700,000.
09/14/2010 Price decreased by 7% to $6,200,000.
01/12/2011 Price decreased by 10% to $5,595,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/527506-coop-9-east-96th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

Leaving so soon? Stay awhile. The pistachio paint has barely dried

1136 Fifth Avenue #3A: Park-facing corner eight. A well-timed purchase, a pleasant renovation and a 77% jump from Q2 2009.
01/17/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $5,650,000.
02/11/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $4,950,000.
05/05/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $4,495,000.
05/15/2009 Listing entered contract.
08/19/2009 Sale recorded for $3,500,000.
10/14/2010 Listed by Stribling at $6,500,000.
11/10/2010 Listing entered contract.
01/25/2011 Sale recorded for $6,200,000.

nice find 81--despite that reno could easily have run 1mm, a great flip--1136 is very blue chip--certainly helped

re 1136 Fifth---9A has recently been on and off the market.

Any guesses as to the current value?

Looks like a great reno.....and 9th floor view is spectacular

"A well-timed purchase, a pleasant renovation and a 77% jump from Q2 2009. "

I would add:

"A well-timed purchase, an impressively successful lowball, a pleasant renovation and a 77% jump from Q2 2009. "

9fl vs 3fl in 1136 has huge view value--all else equal (seems to be both are great reno's)--shouldnt 9a trade close to ask, based on recent sale of 3a?

maybe market's weaker now than when 3a went into contract??

300 East 79th "C line: The sale of #9C - which just hit ACRIS last week - suggests no significant bounce from the 2009 trough. Prices here remain down about 20% from peak, and that's in nominal terms.
---------Recorded Sales---------|---------Previous Listings---------
12/01/2010 #9C $1,450,000 -18.8% | . $1,785,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,300 ft²
10/14/2009 #7C $1,378,880 -21.0% | ↓ $1,745,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,300 ft²
08/21/2009 #8C $1,400,000 -20.7% | ↓ $1,765,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,300 ft²
05/14/2009 #5C $1,374,637 -20.3% | ↓ $1,725,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,300 ft²
07/15/2008 #4C $1,731,025 - 2.5% | . $1,775,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,300 ft²
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/300-east-79th-new_york?show_all=true

25 East 86th Street #7A: Spacious, expensively renovated Carnegie Hill six. Resold quickly, 12.9% below 2007 acquisition price.
08/30/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $3,100,000.
09/08/2010 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,795,000.
11/06/2010 Listing entered contract.
01/28/2011 Sale recorded for $2,700,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/551722-coop-25-east-86th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

70 East 96th Street #15C: 4.5-room coop with open city views; closed 12.7% below 2005 acquisition price.
05/20/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,375,000.
05/04/2010 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,295,000.
10/13/2010 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
10/18/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,295,000.
11/02/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $1,249,000.
11/28/2010 Listing entered contract.
01/27/2011 Sale recorded for $1,200,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/562689-coop-70-east-96th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

863 Park Avenue "E" line: OK, the ambulances are an issue, but if anything, the hospital is a bigger problem on lower floors. #10E is renovated, with CAC and other toys, and condition seems fine. Maintenance, often a drag on high floor resales, doesn't explain what's happening here: #2E's monthlies are actually HIGHER, not because of any evident difference in footprint, but rather (I think) because of a historic quirk in share allocation. So the new asking price on #10E, 20% below the 2008 sale of #2E, is pretty striking.
---------Recorded Sales---------|---------Previous Listings---------
**CURRENT** #10E .............................. |↓ $2,500,000 4 beds
06/07/2009 #10E .............................. | . $3,750,000 4 beds 3 baths (Listed as #10SE)
05/14/2008 # 2E $3,100,000 -8.8% | . $3,400,000 Sold 3 beds 2 baths
06/21/2007 # 5E $3,502,000 +6.3% | . $3,295,000 Sold 3 beds 3 baths
06/02/2004 # 2E $1,825,000 -3.9% | . $1,900,000 Sold 3 beds 2 baths
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/865-park-avenue-new_york
#12E, a notable price-chopper in its own right, has a different footprint so I excluded it from the comps.

west 81- curious to hear your thoughts on pricing of 10E vs 12E, a gut that sold for $1.85mm approximately 1 year ago. thanks

Trotter: #12E has a unique footprint, and a rather awkward one. We discussed possible solutions on the Pricechoppers thread, about halfway down page 3:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5465-chasing-the-market-down-our-favorite-price-choppers?page=3

As for the comparison with the current listing, I would pay the extra ~$600K for #10E in a heartbeat rather than tackle the renovation of #12E. If #12E cleared the hospital to the south, that might tip the scales somewhat, but it doesn't. #12E was for somebody who wanted a project for the sake of having a project.

One additional note regarding the latest price cut on #10E at 863 Park: after making partner at Goldman, the owner paid $11.2MM for a low-floor twelve at 1060 Fifth. #10E has probably been empty for a couple of years. Nice opportunity for a buyer who likes pre-WWI architecture and doesn't mind the location.

West81st, have you seen a share anomaly like 2E before? It goes 600 for 2E, then starts at around 390 for 3E and goes up five shares per floor. I couldn't find any footprint difference either. I'd be pissed if I were 2E, but then wouldn't have bought it to begin with.

NWT: If we're reading the floorplans right, that's one of the worst outliers I've seen. There are some bad ones on the West Side too, often because an original apartment has been reassembled after being treated as multiple units in the prospectus.

I think we are, as outlines match and dimensions add up. Oh well....

Any thoughts on how to discount an apartment like #2E, with monthlies that are 150% of the "right" number for the line and elevation? An efficient market might ding the apartment's value by the NPV of some estimate of the extra negative cash flow over the expected hold period. I doubt many actual buyers approach the problem that way. So what really happens? Does the extra maintenance simply come out of what the buyer will tolerate as a total monthly nut? It can't be that simple - especially in a building that requires 50% down, which complicates the any potential trade-off between maintenance and financing costs.

Three sales in three years: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/567967-coop-1100-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york

01/11/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $3,400,000.
01/15/2010 Previously Listed by Stribling at $3,300,000.
05/04/2010 Previous Sale recorded for $3,300,000.
11/11/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $3,800,000.
01/03/2011 Listing entered contract.
03/10/2011 Sale recorded for $3,600,000.

The 2010 buyer died four months after her purchase.

So, we're looking to possibly move from upper west side to upper east side. It seems that we can get more bang for our buck on the east side but we're just not sure. We've always been west siders and know the property valuations on 'this side' very well. Any good places - here, other - we can get up to speed on the East side?

605 Park Avenue #9D: Large pre-war 1BR with dining L. Now asking 14.4% below 2007 acquisition price.
01/25/2007 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $965,000.
11/09/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $900,000.
03/10/2010 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $900,000.
01/26/2011 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $895,000.
02/08/2011 Listed by Halstead Property at $895,000.
03/28/2011 Price decreased by 14% to $770,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/582070-coop-605-park-avenue-lenox-hill-new-york

West81st - that's sort of GIGO. but look at some of the other closings in the building.

ph41 wrote: "West81st - that's sort of GIGO. but look at some of the other closings in the building."

I think GIGO is a strong term. Besides, if #9D is garbage in 2011, wasn't it garbage in 2007?

But OK, let's look at the other closings...

605 Park Avenue #9C: Realistically-priced five that was also listed as a potential combination with the above-mentioned #9D; closed above ask, but still 9.3% below January 2006 acquisition price.
01/25/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $2,210,000.
03/10/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,950,000.
04/05/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/08/2010 Sale recorded for $2,025,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/501486-coop-605-park-avenue-lenox-hill-new-york

605 Park Avenue #16ADE: Unrealistically priced twelve; closed 54% below original 2008 ask.
01/12/2008 Listed by Corcoran at $12,500,000.
02/23/2008 Price decreased by 16% to $10,500,000.
05/23/2008 Price decreased by 19% to $8,500,000.
04/10/2009 Price decreased by 26% to $6,250,000.
05/06/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $5,900,000.
02/19/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/09/2010 Sale recorded for $5,750,000.

#4F and #8F were sold to neighbors - presumably for combination - without being listed. #3F was a sponsor unit sold to an Elliman broker for a 2005-ish price. (See the sale of #2F in 8/05.)

245 East 87th Street #9A: 2BR/2BA post-war co-op with balcony and renovated kitchen. Now asking 6% below 2004 acquisition price.
10/15/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $799,000.
10/29/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $850,000.
01/25/2011 Price decreased by 6% to $800,000.
03/30/2011 Price decreased by 6% to $750,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/565163-coop-245-east-87th-street-yorkville-new-york
The comp history suggests a drop of at least 15% from peak. The real news, though, is that values apparently remain at (or have returned to) 2009 bottom levels - and are probably near 2003.

West 81-while you may be right about values, I think that this building may not be a great example of a trend. While this apt is large, quiet, and 'renovated,' the building is depressing. The hallways are fine, actually even nice, but when I looked at an open house there a year ago, while the price was right and the kitchen was surprisingly large, the lobby was dated and dirty, the elevators amazingly slow...it was just almost heinous. A very bad first impression. Obviously things that can be changed, but I think that this building is just ok. A good value yes, but by the way it looks now, not where I,and apparently other people, want to buy into and live.

10 East 85th Street #9D: Top-floor 2BR/2BA coop, closed 7.5% below 2006 acquisition price.
09/01/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,395,000.
04/07/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,495,000.
04/15/2010 Listing is no longer available.
04/29/2010 Re-listed by Corcoran.
04/29/2010 Price decreased by 7% to $1,395,000.
07/09/2010 Price decreased by 7% to $1,295,000.
09/16/2010 Listing entered contract.
03/16/2011 Sale recorded for $1,290,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/508056-coop-10-east-85th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

Skippy2222: Agreed, and I think a lot of coop boards are grappling with the reality that allowing common areas to deteriorate can have a severe effect on resale values in a post-boom market.

low hanging fruit...up from 2006, but noty including transaction costs.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/566034-coop-530-east-84th-street-yorkville-new-york

2/2 flat from 2005: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/516866-coop-1120-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york (That's flat for market, not for seller.)

10/05/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,900,000.
04/24/2010 Listed by Gumley Haft Kleier at $2,250,000.
04/27/2010 Also Listed by Corcoran at $2,250,000.
07/21/2010 Price decreased by 11% to $1,995,000.
09/23/2010 Listing entered contract.
11/12/2010 Re-listed by Gumley Haft Kleier.
11/16/2010 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,995,000.
12/15/2010 Listing entered contract.
03/07/2011 Sale recorded for $1,900,000.

It's the front half of what'd been a nine-room apartment. See http://www.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/dlo?obj=ldpd_YR_1837_MH_007_001&size=large

#5C downstairs, either restored or spared from Depression cut-up, is for sale for $6.5M: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/588693-coop-1120-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york

1150 fifth avenue http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/551364-coop-1150-fifth-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york. $3.2mm in '05 , recently sold for $2.85mm .

116 East 66th Street low-floor "B" line: spacious post-war five with rather high maintenance. #3B has lingered for almost two years, and has already been cut to 10% below the owners' 2006 acquisition price. Yesterday's 17% chop on #2B makes the outlook even grimmer - and qualifies this pair for the "Neighbors" thread - despite #3B's edge in condition.
---------Recorded Sales---------|---------Previous Listings---------
* CURRENT * #2B ........................... | ↓ $ 995,000 2 beds 1,350 ft²
* CURRENT * #3B ........................... |↓ $1,350,000 2 beds
07/11/2006 #3B $1,500,000 +0.3% | $1,495,000
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/116-east-66-street-manhattan

By the way, the killer for #3B was a 17% maintenance increase in 2010. A 6% hike in 2011 didn't help either.

That is just an ugly situation.

So assuming they actually get the 1.35 mil they are asking for they could have rented a place for $6000-7000/month (AT LEAST) for the same amount they will lose on this. And that assumes they get what they are asking AND didn't put anything into the apartment and lived in it for the whole time they owned it (IOW didn't have to rent elsewhere for a bit).

Worse yet, they are living in a place that has to be in "showroom" condition for the last two years.

1120 park ave.
11C was a great score.

300 East 77th Street (Seville) #20B: 2BR/2.5 BA condo built in 2002, now asking 8.7% below 2005 acquisition price.
03/17/2003 Previous Sale recorded for $1,834,285.
08/19/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $2,300,000.
03/23/2011 Listed by Mercedes Berk at $2,300,000.
04/07/2011 Price decreased by 9% to $2,100,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/592968-condo-300-east-77th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

I'd be curious to know how much RE taxes + common charges for this apt have risen by since 2003. Being $3K combined today, that sound like a deal breaker to me.

$3K for an apartment of this size is on the high side, but not crazy. For me, the deal breaker is the 2nd avenue subway construction nightmare. I can't remember if that was already known in 2005. Even if yes, I bet people didn't think about it.

Regardless, I scratch my head why people would pay these kind of prices for what look like pretty average apartments in an a pretty average location.

Completely agree, newbuyer99. I even find the 2003 price of $1,834,285 ridiculous for 4.5 rooms on 77th & 2nd. Look at the price history of this building: were they all drinking kool aid? I know it's a new construction, full service condo, but come on. And, subway construction has butchered 2nd Ave.

Regarding RE taxes + common charges increases, found this:
16A & 17A are both 2289 sf.
As of Jan 2007, Common Charges were $1,874 & Taxes were $569.
16A (currently on the market) has Common Charges of $2,192 & Taxes of 1,749.

For 17A, as of Jan 2007, Common Charges were $1,874 & Taxes were $569

300 East 77th Street (Seville) #20B: 2BR/2.5 BA condo built in 2002

If you view the floor plan there is a 'bedroom' which is 8'x8'8". We were just recently reviewing the rules as to what make a bedroom a bedroom and if I'm not mistaken, this makes it by 8 inches. No seperate dinning room? This really was the Kool-Aide building along with it's ugly step sister the Impala. Two perfectly timed fugly buildings with cramped layouts and spectacular prices. Funny how easy money makes you do stupid stuff. I'll bet this one makes it to it's 2003 price before it trades hands.

Subway construction is a drag but, this building's placement on second is not in the thick of it so it's less critical to the sale.

This also stands in the shadow of the newly constructed ISIS.
Same exact game plan.
Terrible timing.
All out of Kool-aide.

Falco,
I looked at the floorplan of another apt in the same line & surmise they chopped the kitchen to create it. So, I believe that 8x8 "room" was once part of the kitchen. Oh yeah, this is another 2 bdrm apt marketed as 3 bdrms.

Right, the third bedroom used to be the dining end of the kitchen, as in the other Bs: http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/33/2523833.jpg

Worse is that that third bedroom's occupant has only a half-bath to use. To shower, the kid has to use one of the other baths, both of which are en-suite.

Good-size living room, though.

In 2009 and 2010 - way back on pages 2, 3 and 9 of this discussion thread - we documented 1133 Park Avenue #4E, a corner classic seven whose owner apparently remarried and relocated. The April 2010 sale finally hit ACRIS today. In the end, the drop from the peak comp one floor down was 34%.
--------- Recorded Sales --------- | --------- Previous Listings ---------
04/26/2010 . #4E $1,850,000 +2.8% | . $1,799,000 3 beds 2 baths 1,700 ft²
06/16/2009 . #4E ............................ |↓ $1,950,000 3 beds 2 baths
08/01/2007 . #3E $2,805,000 + 8.1% | . $2,595,000 3 beds 3 baths
02/13/2007 #15E $2,500,000 - 6.5% | . $2,675,000 3 beds 2 baths
07/13/2004 . #4E $1,725,000 + 8.2% | . $1,595,000 3 beds 2 baths
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/1133-park-avenue-manhattan
As noted previously, #3E may have been in better condition. #4E does not appear to have been in bad shape, although the layout was a bit odd.

West81 - 9E, listed at $2,295,000 went into contract very quickly
03/04/2011 Listed by Stribling at $2,295,000.
04/06/2011 Listing entered contract.
Maybe the traffic on Park is bad for the lower floor apartment.

Can't be the traffic. That would have been an even bigger problem for #3E. It looks as though the sale of #3E was just perfectly timed.

no truck thru-traffic allowed on park---low floors less noisy--and orthodox like a sort walk upstairs on sabbath

505 East 79th Street #10A: 2BR/2BA post-war coop that was arguably over-renovated. Closed 1.6% below the sellers' 2006 acquisition price despite substantial investment.
01/25/2006 Listed by Corcoran at $1,200,000.
02/21/2006 Price decreased by 5% to $1,140,000.
03/24/2006 Price decreased by 4% to $1,100,000.
04/24/2006 Listing entered contract.
07/25/2006 Sale recorded for $1,015,000.
10/21/2008 Listed by Corcoran at $1,250,000.
12/29/2008 Delisted temporarily.
03/01/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,100,000.
08/12/2010 Listing is no longer available.
09/13/2010 Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $1,085,000.
02/10/2011 Listing entered contract.
04/07/2011 Sale recorded for $999,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/553164-coop-505-east-79th-street-yorkville-new-york
Here's the 2006 listing, pre-reno:
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=780881

Hmmmm... I think that renovation takes it out of range to be comp'ed to anything. Beastly. I am amazed it sold at the price it did, actually.

515 East 85th Street #11A: 2BR/2BA co-op with large terrace. Now asking 14% below 2006 acquisition price. High maintenance for a four-room apartment, but that was true in 2006 too.
01/25/2006 Listed by Bellmarc at $995,000.
02/14/2006 Price decreased by 7% to $925,000.
03/09/2006 Price decreased by 5% to $875,000.
05/05/2006 Price decreased by 9% to $799,000.
09/08/2006 Sale recorded for $854,087.
09/08/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $825,000.
11/05/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $799,000.
01/04/2011 Price decreased by 4% to $765,000.
04/16/2011 Price decreased by 4% to $735,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/551802-coop-515-east-85th-street-yorkville-new-york

220 East 73rd St. # 12H co-op. Sold for $715k in 2005, sold for $915k in 2009, and just sold for $920k -- up 28% since '05. Looks like a new kitchen and bathroom were put in prior to the 2009 sale. That said, it just sold significantly above 2005 price, despite the fact that the apartment does not fit into any of the trophy or unique categories...
03/01/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $715,000.
08/11/2009 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $915,000.
12/21/2009 Corcoran Listing sold.
12/21/2009 Previous Sale recorded for $915,000.
12/07/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $975,000.
02/01/2011 Listing entered contract.
04/12/2011 Listing sold.
04/12/2011 Sale recorded for $920,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/571624-coop-220-east-73rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

>Looks like a new kitchen and bathroom were put in prior to the 2009 sale. That said, it just sold significantly above 2005 price

I see a lot of this type of situation as well. I think it shows people value current comparables more than price history. Current sale is very close to 2009 price & in 2009, many prices were down. Yet, the 2009 price was 28% above the 2005 price & 2005 was during the bubble.

its a nice place. maintenance doesnt seem to crazy either.

201 East 80th Street (Richmond) #7I: 3BR/2.5BA condo, down 10% from 2008, but still up 67% from early 2002 and 193% from 1997. Seller appears to have done some renovation.
06/27/1997 Previous Sale recorded for $682,500.
02/28/2002 Previous Sale recorded for $1,200,000.
03/29/2008 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $2,295,000.
06/27/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $2,200,000.
03/18/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,395,000.
04/29/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $2,295,000.
09/01/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $2,195,000.
10/01/2010 Listing is no longer available.
11/09/2010 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
12/13/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $2,095,000.
02/22/2011 Listing entered contract.
04/14/2011 Sale recorded for $2,000,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/503468-condo-201-east-80th-street-yorkville-new-york

Sorry - down 9.1% from 2008.

west81st,

just inflation since 1997 has been around 50%. i think looking at a year like 1997 is unhelpful, coming as it did after nearly ten years of no increase in real estate prices in the city, despite major secular and cyclical improvement in the city. 200% sounds pretty good for a 14 year period, but not so exceptional for 20+ years.

For anyone still hopeful about the "added value" of the 2nd Ave Subway to nearby property, see the torturous price cutting below (and check out 233 E 69th price slashing)...
06/10/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $630,000.
08/14/2007 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $999,000.
11/14/2007 Halstead Property Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $945,000.
02/19/2008 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $899,000.
03/22/2008 Delisted by Prudential Elliman.
02/17/2009 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $845,000.
06/16/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing sold. Last priced at $839,000.
11/05/2009 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $785,000.
01/12/2010 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
01/14/2010 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $785,000.
07/29/2010 Delisted temporarily by Halstead Property. Last priced at $700,000.
12/03/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $725,000.
01/05/2011 Listing is no longer available.
01/12/2011 Re-listed by Corcoran.
01/13/2011 Price decreased by 3% to $700,000.
01/22/2011 Price decreased by 4% to $675,000.
02/08/2011 Listing entered contract.
04/15/2011 Listing sold.
04/15/2011 Sale recorded for $650,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/1843423

you wont see added value of second ave subway until its almost open. right now the option is free

167 East 67th Street, renovated B/C combinations:
#8BC closed for $1.5MM...
10/24/2008 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,182,500.
12/19/2008 Delisted temporarily.
01/17/2009 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
01/28/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,980,000.
03/10/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $1,799,000.
05/19/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,699,000.
07/10/2009 Delisted temporarily.
04/21/2011 Sale recorded for $1,500,000.
...down 22% from the #5BC, the peak comp three floors below.
12/18/2006 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,995,000.
01/23/2007 Listing entered contract.
11/12/2007 Sale recorded for $1,925,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/359877-coop-167-east-67th-street-lenox-hill-new-york
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/59560-coop-167-east-67th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

4 East 95th Street, #9B. 2/2; a previous sale listing claimed 1,550sf. Closed 19% ($370k) above the 2006 previous sale, which in turn was 12% above a 2004 sale. The 2006 listing claims some renovation, while the listing for the just closed sale has a gushing description of a 2007 gut renovation. Between the recent reno and transaction costs, much or all (if not all and more) of the $370k is presumably gone. Still, getting out either side of even (a guess, I admit) in a prewar at the northern end of Carnegie Hill bought in 2006 wouldn't be a bad outcome for the seller. There have been a lot of sales at 2004-ish prices in that area.

07/08/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,725,000.
12/05/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,930,500.
09/22/2010 Listed by Warburg at $2,495,000.
10/24/2010 Listing entered contract.
12/22/2010 Listing is no longer available.
01/07/2011 Re-listed by Warburg.
01/26/2011 Listing entered contract.
04/19/2011 Listing sold.
04/19/2011 Sale recorded for $2,300,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/555978-coop-4-east-95th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

looks like it was a complete gut and a nice one--could easily have cost 400k--

1170 Fifth Avenue #3A: renovated, park-facing seven with double-size maid's room, now asking 9.4% below 2007 acquisition price, and 4.5% below prior 2005 sale.
05/18/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $3,330,000.
06/20/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $3,475,000.
02/05/2010 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,550,000.
04/27/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $3,350,000.
11/01/2010 Delisted temporarily.
11/10/2010 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
05/05/2011 Price decreased by 6% to $3,150,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/494463-coop-1170-fifth-avenue-east-harlem-new-york

whats up with the communal bathrooms?

That third bedroom was built with french doors into the gallery, and meant to be more a library. The master BR was at the corner, so had two baths except when the second bedroom had a guest in it.

Same problem with the B line next door, where two baths serve three bedrooms and a library/bedroom, the latter accessible only from the living room.

A misjudgement on the architect's part, as even in 1925 it was a less than ideal layout. A solution would've been to sacrifice some closet space to make one of the baths open from the hall. Another would've been to make one of them interior, but ductwork took more space back then and mechanical ventilation was done only as a last resort.

108 East 82nd "B" line: In this compact classic seven line, there seems to have been no bounce at all from the early-2009 lows.
---------Recorded Sales---------|---------Previous Listings---------
04/21/2011 #7B $1,700,000 -5.5% |↓ $1,799,000 3 beds 3 baths
06/24/2009 #6B $1,700,000 -4.5% | . $1,780,000 Sold 3 beds 2.5 baths 1,600ft²
Both apartments needed work. One interesting aspect of the #7B transaction is the buyer. The next time a broker tells you the market is hot, ask why brokers are still able to snag East Side coops at 2009 prices.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/108-east-82-street-manhattan

Nice trade-up: two more bedrooms (though smaller LR) for only a couple hundred thousand.

NWT. Do you have a couple of hundred lying around? Flmaoz.

Hey w81, r u the same w81 a year started a thread on the best bargains of 2009. ?$&!!!'fk&&&&&@@"&&&&@.

Data entry dude, which is it? Have we kissed the bottom or are only borkers waiting out the shitstorm in nyc by buying pony farms in Connecticut and renting?, allz the whilez telling their mother to buy buy buy !!!!! $&@&&&$&&&&&!!!!!&$""":;;)!!!!'. Fk!

519 East 86th Street #4C: Small, renovated prewar 2BR/1BA (arguably a big 1BR, since the second "bedroom" is off the kitchen). Now asking 17.3% less than 2007 acquisition price.
08/15/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $809,000.
07/30/2009 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $725,000.
01/21/2010 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
01/26/2011 Listed by Gumley Haft Kleier at $725,000.
04/06/2011 Price decreased by 4% to $699,000.
05/18/2011 Price decreased by 4% to $669,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/579536-coop-519-east-86th-street-yorkville-new-york

w67: If you go back to the purchases cited on the "Ones that got away" thread, I think you'll find that most still look good nine months later. My personal favorites are 336 CPW and 201 W89. The buyers still might kick themselves, but it hasn't happened yet.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/22052-ones-that-got-away-best-buys-from-the-crash

w81, are we closer to your 336CPW and 201W89 trade or are we going the other way? -shrug- read my responses, outliers soon to be gobbled up by the descending trend line.....

350 East 82nd Street (Wellington) #11A: 3BR/3BA condo, closed 9.6% below 2007 sponsor sale. The listing's claim that it was "just renovated" might be misleading, since the 2006 sponsor listing also mentioned a "state of the art renovation".
04/12/2006 Listed by Classic Marketing LLC at $1,995,000.
05/22/2006 Price decreased by 3% to $1,935,000.
10/13/2006 Price decreased by 3% to $1,875,000.
02/28/2007 Listing entered contract.
04/17/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,909,218.
01/26/2010 Listed by Fox Residential Group at $1,935,000.
03/29/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $1,825,000.
05/26/2010 Delisted temporarily.
01/03/2011 Later Listed by Fox Residential Group at $1,785,000.
04/21/2011 Sale recorded for $1,725,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/574531-condo-350-east-82nd-street-yorkville-new-york

w67: I don't know. This is the UES thread, and I think the East Side looks soft. Across town, the resilience of the UWS C6+ market flouts macroeconomic reality. The simple explanation is that cash buyers are outbidding each other for the good stuff. The question continues to be how long that dynamic can last.

the east side does look soft. the small unit market seems to be softening in some of the more resilient areas.

2/2, barely above mid-2004 sale

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/551865-coop-1049-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york
06/18/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,450,000.
09/08/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,675,000.
11/04/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $1,575,000.
01/12/2011 Price decreased by 5% to $1,500,000.
02/16/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/03/2011 Listing sold.
05/03/2011 Sale recorded for $1,500,000.

jr. 4, relatively large, just reduced to about 6% below 2005 sales price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/576984-coop-500-east-83rd-street-yorkville-new-york

08/23/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $780,000.
08/11/2009 Previously Listed by Akam Sales and Brokerage at $950,000.
05/20/2010 Previously Listed by Akam Sales and Brokerage at $829,000.
10/28/2010 Akam Sales and Brokerage Listing is no longer available.
01/12/2011 Akam Sales and Brokerage Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $829,000.
01/13/2011 Listed by Halstead Property at $809,000.
03/31/2011 Price decreased by 1% to $799,000.
05/05/2011 Price decreased by 3% to $775,000.
06/01/2011 Price decreased by 5% to $735,000.

you abooutready, guarantee 6-1-11 buyers are kicking themselves in the anus.

w81, let's take that to its logical conclusion. Two non descript 3bdrm 2K sq ft apt. One on 78 and 3rd goes for $1MM = >CAN a 78 and Bway and WEA non descript 2K sq ft apt sell for $3MM?

How about I start a thread called "the best buys of 2007!"

Ya think the worst buy of 2011 couldn't beat the 2007 fool?

Look at the trend.... the future is where wealth is made. Today is just a starting line.

1170 Fifth Avenue #3A: Upper Carnegie Hill 8-into-7; just reduced to 16.7% below 2007 acquisition price, and 13.1% below 2005 prior sale.
10/27/2004 Listed by Stribling at $3,495,000.
01/30/2005 Listing entered contract.
05/18/2005 Sale recorded for $3,330,000.
11/01/2005 Listed by Stribling at $3,700,000.
01/18/2006 Price decreased by 5% to $3,500,000.
02/25/2006 Price decreased by 4% to $3,375,000.
05/06/2006 Listing is no longer available.
01/24/2007 Re-listed by Stribling.
01/24/2007 Price increased by 4% to $3,500,000.
03/23/2007 Listing entered contract.
06/20/2007 Sale recorded for $3,475,000.
02/05/2010 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,550,000.
04/27/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $3,350,000.
11/01/2010 Delisted temporarily.
11/10/2010 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
05/05/2011 Price decreased by 6% to $3,150,000.
06/02/2011 Price decreased by 8% to $2,895,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/494463-coop-1170-fifth-avenue-east-harlem-new-york

The owners have apparently traded up to an eleven at 1040 Fifth Avenue - one of Edgar Bronfman's many real estate dalliances: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/173263-coop-1040-fifth-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york
I guess the renovation there took a while, and selling their old apartment, now that they are done with it, has taken even longer.

FLMAOzzzzz let me get This straight. The sellers took a pound of flesh from the brofmans, more like 5mm pounds and they give us $400k price cut for their pos on 5th and Harlem?

I've heard about trickle down economics but this is Fking ridiculous.

150 E 77th Street #8G: Large 1BR/1.5BA marketed as a junior 4, closed 16.4% below Q1 2008 acquisition price.
09/24/2007 Previously Listed by Warburg at $1,195,000.
01/24/2008 Warburg Listing sold. Last priced at $995,000.
03/17/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $975,000.
01/13/2010 Previously Listed by Rikki Javitch at $955,000.
02/13/2010 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $985,000.
04/12/2010 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $965,000.
07/07/2010 Rikki Javitch Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $945,000.
08/24/2010 Listed by Halstead Property at $925,000.
10/26/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $899,000.
02/18/2011 Price decreased by 9% to $815,000.
03/24/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/26/2011 Sale recorded for $810,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/548442-coop-150-east-77th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

The owner appears to have attempted a FSBO through his wife, a young real estate attorney. When that didn't work out, he turned to the Halstead agents who sold his previous home in NoHo in 2008. There's no way to know whether the final result was any better than the FSBO would have achieved.

150 E 77th: hospital ambulances + subway

dwell: "Steps to transportation and world-class medical care!" ;o)

Seriously, though: the ambulances and #6 train were there in 2008, so those issues are a wash.

It's Lenox Hill! No one going there for a real emergency anyway, which means the ambulances can turn off the siren by the time they pull off onto 77th st.

I'm thinkin you don't live in the area.

this listing is kind of macabre. indicates the seller is relocating, as it was an estate sale relocating might be technically accurate, but...

almost 14% below 2006 sale. 1/1, renovated by prior owner.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/474217-coop-315-east-72nd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

04/28/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Prudential Elliman at $685,000.
08/31/2006 Prudential Elliman Listing sold.
08/31/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $685,000.
10/27/2009 Listed by Custom Brokers NYC at $689,000.
04/13/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $665,000.
06/21/2010 Price decreased by 1% to $659,000.
07/13/2010 Price decreased by 1% to $655,000.
12/08/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $635,000.
03/01/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/18/2011Re-listed by Custom Brokers NYC.
05/25/2011 Sale recorded for $600,000.
05/26/2011 Listing sold.

very small 2/1, walk up building, third floor. in an interesting marketing move the pictures are from the apartment one floor up, from the listings: "The photos are illustrative of what apartment 3-B could look like if painted in bright colors and decorated." sold for a wee bit less than early 2005 sale.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/559599-coop-530-east-85th-street-yorkville-new-york

01/28/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $456,500.
11/13/2008 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $525,000.
05/12/2009 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $499,000.
10/05/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $499,000.
11/13/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $475,000.
12/01/2010 Price decreased by 1% to $469,000.
12/21/2010 Listing entered contract.
02/24/2011 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
03/22/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/18/2011 Listing sold.
05/18/2011 Sale recorded for $450,000.

this is oddish. looks like after the sellers spent a fair amount of effort and time trying to sell the building wound up buying this first floor 1/1, for $10k less than its mid-2005 sales price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/498782-coop-315-east-65th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

07/25/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $460,000.
02/26/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $629,000.
03/09/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $599,000.
04/29/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $575,000.
07/19/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $550,000.
10/11/2010 Price decreased by 11% to $490,000.
01/04/2011 Price decreased by 3% to $475,000.
03/31/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/13/2011 Listing sold.
05/13/2011 Sale recorded for $450,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/474217-coop-315-east-72nd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

2nd Ave subway construction discount...