If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Midtown Edition

pre-war one bedroom with tiny kitchen.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/549919-coop-140-east-40th-street-murray-hill-new-york

09/19/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $445,000.
08/31/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $479,000.
12/29/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $449,000.
02/24/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/09/2011 Listing sold.
05/09/2011 Sale recorded for $440,000.

raw loft space in a commercial live/work condo building. sold for a bit lower than the mid-2004 sponsor sales price. i wonder what they did with the space for almost 7 years, it doesn't seem to have any bathroom facilities.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/399319-condo-315-west-36th-street-clinton-new-york

06/03/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,079,345.
04/03/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $1,210,000.
04/28/2009 Price decreased by 1% to $1,195,000.
06/26/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,095,000.
09/15/2009 Listing entered contract.
10/02/2009 Listing sold.
05/09/2011 Sale recorded for $1,042,500.

straight studio in post-war building, recently entered contract, last listing price just below 2004 sales price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/588738-coop-201-east-28th-street-kips-bay-new-york

11/16/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $368,768.
08/06/2010 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $365,000.
12/21/2010 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
03/08/2011 Listed by Corcoran at $365,000.
05/21/2011 Listing entered contract.

AR:Your 635 W 42nd listing made me wonder how the MIMA opening will affect prices in that area. A quick check of the Orion gave a clue. First closing in May was 20K below sponsor sale in 2006. There are 34 listings for sale and 31 rentals listed.

350 West 42nd Street #23A
STREETEASY HISTORY
07/31/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $799,326.
10/04/2010 Listed by Promise Real Estate Company at $880,000.
10/23/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $849,000.
02/28/2011 Listing sold.
05/03/2011 Sale recorded for $780,000.

happyrenter: "as west81st said, it's not as bad ss it could have been. just because the balance between your number for "investment" and the actual price paid for the apartment was debt doesn't mean that wasn't risked as well. and to be fair, do we know for a fact that this person took out a mortgage at all? clearly, this one did not work out for the original buyer. but who can dispute that it could have been worse than a 9% decline."

Sorry, happyrenter, just saw this from 3 months ago.

The numbers I put up were based on the actual mortgage taken on the investment property based on ACRIS records, so the loss was really on the order of $361K.

I hear you on the distinction between equity put up and risk taken, but this is effectively a non-recourse loan. The person put up $500K and lost $361K with a 9% headline loss. Suppose the place dropped 50%, what would've been the outcome? He would default on the loan and take 3 years of rent while awaiting foreclosure, paying just over 2 years of common charges. He would be out the $500K, but get back around $150K of after-default rent. So, maximum possible loss for the guy was $350K or so, which was hit.

Yeah, I know, NY is a one-shot state and all. But one way to look at it. It's clear there was a $361K loss. How do you prefer to quantify it in a relative sense?

murray hill one bedroom with painfully high mtc. (mtc. in the building has been painfully high for years, tho). closed 27% below early '07 sale.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/580845-coop-160-east-38th-street-murray-hill-new-york

03/13/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $537,129.
02/28/2009 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $539,000.
08/25/2009 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $529,000.
03/28/2010 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $475,000.
10/05/2010 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $459,000.
02/02/2011 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $425,000.
03/19/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/17/2011 Listing sold.
05/17/2011 Sale recorded for $390,000.

3/2 with two planting terraces. newly renovated, as well.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/548712-coop-305-east-40th-street-murray-hill-new-york

11/16/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,190,000.
05/03/2008 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,350,000.
07/10/2010 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,160,000.
08/25/2010 Listed by Stribling at $1,160,000.
10/25/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $1,100,000.
03/19/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/13/2011 Listing sold.
05/13/2011 Sale recorded for $1,040,000.

newly renovated sponsor one-bedroom unit in a hell's kitchen walk-up building. 5A closed for $423k in 12/05.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/567360-coop-857-ninth-avenue-clinton-new-york

11/08/2010 Listed by Citi-Habitats at $399,000.
12/10/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $389,000.
03/22/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/13/2011 Listing sold.
05/13/2011 Sale recorded for $350,000.

another newly renovated sponsor one-bedroom unit. 14F, a resale with a very dubious kitchen, closed for $549k 11/08. i'm not sure why it took almost a year to close, but it's a nice lowball as well. co-op sponsor sales had been holding up extremely well, even in the small unit and midtown markets. seems like that is changing.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/516753-coop-225-east-36th-street-murray-hill-new-york

04/24/2010 Listed by Triumph Property Group at $580,000.
05/06/2010 Price decreased by 2% to $570,000.
06/04/2010 Listing sold.
05/13/2011 Sale recorded for $430,000.

the price increase strategy didn't work so well here. 7B, 2/1.5 (with the much-derided j&j bathroom) with decently sized rooms, a dining alcove and a small maids room.

6B closed for $1.15m in 11/04, 4B for $1.109 in 10/05, and more recently 3B (which seemed to be in worse shape than this unit) closed during the dog days in 09/09 for $970k.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/495393-coop-435-east-57th-street-sutton-place-new-york

02/10/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,100,000.
03/27/2010 Listing is no longer available.
04/05/2010 Re-listed by Corcoran.
04/21/2010 Listing is no longer available.
05/10/2010 Re-listed by Corcoran.
05/10/2010 Price increased by 23% to $1,350,000.
06/14/2010 Price decreased by 7% to $1,250,000.
06/28/2010 Price decreased by 8% to $1,150,000.
12/06/2010 Price decreased by 13% to $999,000.
01/31/2011 Listing entered contract.
05/12/2011 Listing sold.
05/12/2011 Sale recorded for $937,500.

Things closing below 2009 low? Wtf. Than it was not a bottom. Just a false one, a plastic facsimile of a wiener if you will. A cell phone shout out from paul revere.

Straight studio: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/580493-coop-118-east-60th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

04/13/2010 Previously Listed by Warburg at $389,000.
11/10/2010 Warburg Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $349,000.
02/01/2011 Listed by Warburg at $359,000.
03/09/2011 Listing entered contract.
06/16/2011 Sale recorded for $359,000.

These hit $399,000 at peak (May 2008 contract.)

NWT. Stfu and go buy more studios. I hear 2008 prices are back!!!! Flmaozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

On no buy now or be priced out forever. Baconator!

50 Sutton Place South, 3GM

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/615603-coop-50-sutton-place-south-sutton-place-new-york?email=true

01/15/2010Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,495,000.
10/04/2010Brown Harris Stevens Listing sold. Last priced at $2,235,000.
10/04/2010Previous Sale recorded for $2,138,750.
01/05/2011Previously Listed by Stribling at $2,375,000.
06/12/2011Stribling Listing is no longer available.
06/14/2011Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,275,000.
07/26/2011Price decreased by 9% to $2,075,000.

So this place sold in October of last year, and was listed 2 months later, and is now listed below last October's asking price. This is notable (and surprising). Of course, the fact of listing 2 months after closing is also a little weird...

99
Have you seen it?

Nope, have not seen, just shows up on my search, and I thought the pattern was weird. Why do you ask?

close ~ 14% below 05' price

6/02/05 sold for $930K
closed 5/1012 %810k
down 14% since 05..

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/642184-coop-235-east-57th-street-midtown-new-york

06/02/2005Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
10/21/2011Listed by Corcoran at $899,000.
11/10/2011Price decreased by 0% to $895,000.
02/09/2012Price decreased by 5% to $850,000.
03/13/2012Listing entered contract.
06/01/2012Listing is no longer available.
sold $810k

looky looky brooksy--and they tried/failed to rent it for 3900 in 3/12

11F traded 950k in 2010---aint no hold in this bldg

were i not to have seen that it wouldnt rent for 3900, i'd say it wsasnt a bad purchase at 810k

when were prices supposed to go up? 2nd qrt or 3rd? not

Up? First we have to stop falling...

>Up? First we have to stop falling...

Are you talking about stocks, which you supported on May 1?

sold in 07' for 850k after a reno just sold $850k
08/27/2007Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
11/06/2010Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $985,000.
11/07/2011Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $897,500.
04/05/2012Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $885,000.
04/26/2012Listing entered contract.
06/28/2012Listing sold.
06/28/2012Sale recorded for $(insiders only)

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/675077-coop-50-sutton-place-south-sutton-place-new-york

somehow, using sales in the same building OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, doesn't really prove your vast generalization about ME.

which of the many bldgs brooksie has posted about is the one he posts about over and over? whatever..

there are some nabes which have done well of recent, but MidtownEast cant even summon up a dead cat bounce...

go easy on Brooksie...it aint his fault...he's just sayin'

humm.. I have 2 posts on this thread. one is 50 sutton place the other 235 E 57th street. I wonder, how is that the same bulding or is some one sensitive to prices in ME continueing to drop?

Don't live in ME, so really not "sensitive" to prices there. What I have noticed in ME is that many apartments seem to go to contract / sell fairly quickly and within 10%-15% of asking. But, the coop apartments were in many cases purchased prior to 2004, so, no sale history per se. And many of them are the larger apartments (which may be good deals as a poster on another thread has noted. Though he also noted that the smaller apartments don't seem to trade at particularly "low" prices.). Except of course for 50 SPS and whatever the hell the other one is.

Actually, 50 SPS begins to look more and more like a good deal for someone looking to buy.

And those are the only two buildings you look at. LOL

if you consider over 1.5 years quick..then I'd agree. because one of "the only 2 buildings I look at" was on the market longer that that.. lol

Brooks - as I said, I looked at buildings other than the 2 you follow so closely. I guess you don't see the forest for the trees.

murray hill east---midtown east

same differnce to me--and, frankly, same market conditions of recent

please do show all the comps for ME for all the buildings you follow then.. you can show murry hill too if that helps

Just told you, "comps" are sometimes hard to get because many of these apartments, particularly the larger ones haven't traded since before 2004.

And I don't really "follow" buildings per se - I do get updates on those buildings in which I think friends might be interested in purchasing. Or, for specific apartments which might fit their criteria.

And several different areas of Manhattan fall into the two categories.

ok. then "my vast generalzaion of prices going down in ME" holds ture until you can show me otherwise.

Quotation marks can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it and are often used to express irony. Quotation marks are sometimes used to provide emphasis, although this is usually considered incorrect

225 East 57th Street, #4N. 600sf 1br/1ba. Asking 4% below 2005 prior sale

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/688426-coop-225-east-57th-street-midtown-new-york
08/29/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $432,000.
12/15/2008 Previously Listed by Douglas Elliman at $450,000.
03/23/2009 Douglas Elliman Listing is no longer available.
06/07/2012 Listed by Douglas Elliman at $415,000

Prices up/ Inventory Down

Midtown: StreetEasy June 2012 New Development market report

Median Listing Price Contracts Inventory PPSF
Jun-12...$1,945,000............10.......157....$1,575
Dec-11...$1,440,000............14.......167....$1,318
%Change.....35.1%.............-28.6%...-6.0%....19.5%
Jun-11...$1,185,000............32.......226....$1,245
%Change.....64.1%.............-68.8%...-30.5%...26.5%

http://docs.streeteasy.com/market_reports/2012M6_NewDev_Report.pdf

Listing price.

Hey Brooksie, what do you think about that 64% increase in price?? LOL.

The report didn't list the Bronx!!

is that what your shill manuakl is saying? tell all that there is 64% increase in price? who are you trying to persuade? you are really a dope. lol

Broksie: Ha.....Ha........Ha..!!

So 2 of the last 20+ posts on this thread are actually comps. Well done. There are a lot of other threads where the pointless bull v. bear back-and-forth (Tastes great! Less filling!) fits right in. Can't we keep it off the comps threads?

I agree. I post comp showing market movements, then hear stupid comments from bulls. POST A COMP!

Brooksie: "is that what your shill manuakl is saying"

That "manuakl" is from StreetEasy where you spend half your life posting, shouldn't call them a "shill".

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! LOL!!

Really, you interpret that as a 64% price increase?

50 Sutton Place South, L-line:

#11L, renovated kitchen, closed Oct 2012, $830K

#7L, renovated kitchen/floors, closed June 2013, $850K

#9L (our sale), unrenovated, closed July 2013, $845K

You could make an argument that #7L "ought" to have gone for $810K, with a discount of $5K per floor from the #11L price for having worse light, but actually the second-bedroom fenestration is slightly different.

A second possible comparison is that #9L "ought" to have gone for $825K, depending on what you think a kitchen renovation is worth.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

go team real estate!

What price did 11l sell for in 08'?
~1mm right!
So prices down 15% since then
Go team real estate!!!!
After 5 yrs still down !!
Before transaction costs and increases in taxes and maintenance !

I think you have proven tou would be better off RENTING!!!!

Great reasons to rent!

Go team real estate!!!!!!!

Oh and 2c sold went into contract at $ 765k
That's ~ 585 ppsf

6/2012 15c sold for $850k
8/2012 5c ... $799k
6/ 2013 2c. $765k. ~585ppsf

Which way is the market heading??

GO TEAM RE!!!!!!!!!

Do RE brokers which way is up and which way is down?
What waste of a Harvard Education

Brooks, we already have w67 and yikes. Try a new shtick.

5k/floor. 5c- 2c. Still down

What a joke

If you are a seller and live in a higher floor its 10k hahahaha gaga

11l's kitchen was renovate? When did they do that?

Thought Crimson had ethics

Must have lost those When you became a broker

"Brooks, we already have w67 and yikes. Try a new shtick."

Brooksie can't think of his own shtick, he's just a w67 parrot. LOL!!!!!!

I don't know why I even bother answering Mr. Grey with a straight face, but: it's likely that the 11K kitchen renovation took place between '08 and '11, because the floor plan posted by the broker in '11 shows the elimination of the pantry closet that was part of the renovation.

The owner sold it. He did not renovate it. If you don't know the information, you should not portray that you do.
That is unethical.

If they did renovate it that would heaven be a larger price drop from 08' now wouldn't it.

"It's likely" sounds like a guess to me. Again, if you don't know the facts don't represent that you do!

They previous owner did not renovate it btw.

7l was bigger and in better condition than 11l.
I saw them both!

>"It's likely" sounds like a guess to me. Again, if you don't know the facts don't represent that you do!

If it sounds like a guess, then how can it be a representation of facts? "It is likely" coming from Ali sounds to me like an educated opinion, and if I'm hiring a broker to represent me in a real estate transaction, I want that broker's educated opinion.

I'd want one that did here home work

Brooks, I saw them both too. The owner who sold 11L had clearly renovated parts of the unit, and was very proud of the renovations - not just the kitchen but also the closets.

What I don't know is when that renovation was done.

As far as saying that 7L is "bigger" than 11L, I don't know what to tell you. 7L was sold empty, so it may have looked bigger, but except for the second-bedroom windows I talked about above the units' bones are the same.

ali

If you call buying a new refrigerator renovation then you are right , hmm and renovating the closets what did that take ,, never mind I don't care
But clealy u would not saw that sale is any indication of a market moviement higher. Look at the C line sales for Pete's sake