Wash Hts / Inwood -- thoughts on listings

excuse the double-post earlier -- Streeteasy said my message was "spam" - ended up editing.

Nevertheless -- anyone have any comments on these? I know they aren't luxury properties but... anyone?

Hi Tandare,

I think there might be a better deal in the same building as your first listing 4260 Broadway if you don't mind putting in some sweat equity. http://public.olr.com/details.aspx?id=500701 . I found it for a friend, who expressed interest, but never moved forward. Truthfully, I think she has her heart set on one particular building on Convent Ave in Hamilton Heights. In any case, I don't know the reason why these combined units have a common charge of $1,200 vs. the Elliman listing has common charges of $333/month. Sure the OLR listing is 1,600 sq ft vs. the Elliman listing at 1,200 sq ft...but there has to be something much more- perhaps much higher floor, southern views, etc..... I don't know, but it might be worth your time to check it out.

FYI, when I plug in 160 Wadsworth Avenue into Streeteasy- it comes up with 4260 Broadway listings...so I am guessing it's the same building, but since I don't head that far north too often I don't know for sure.

I live a block from Broadway and you couldn't pay me to live on it due to the heavy street/car noise, hence 4260 Broadway would be off of my list. I have friends who live in 447 Ft Washington and they are quite happy there. However, if you have children and plan to send them to public school, you want to be on the north side of 181 (you will notice a sharp increase in asking prices once you cross the street). If I lived at 1793 Riverside, I would be a bit concerned about crime spillover from Inwood Hill Park in this declining economy. All in all, I've been watching prices decline steadily in the nabe and see no reason to jump in now unless you found an apt that you absolutely loved.

you need to have a car if you live up there as the subway just sucks. this according to friends of mine that live on overlook terrace close to 181st.

If I were you I think I would wait.

I live in Inwood now (I rent), and there's a new condo building down the street from me, and the corner of Seaman and Payson.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/157605-condo-175-payson-inwood-new-york

They finished it six months ago but when you drive by at night, there are only lights in one apartment -- ever. It appears that one one unit out of the whole project has sold.

With that kind of lack of demand for brand new product in Inwood, you will probably be able to make a much better deal 6 mos from now or even a year from now, if you can wait.

When I was looking for an apartment a year ago I seriously considered an apartment in 4260 Broadway. But I changed my mind when I got the paperwork for the building - not only was it a mess but the building has had some legal issues in the last few years and it seems to be run like the wild wild west. You can do better up here.

Semerun - thanks for passing that listing on to me! Very interesting. I've never looked at OLR before either.

lookingforhome - I thought 4260 Bway was on the north side of 181st, ergo in the more 'desirable' district. Don't have any children but I it looks on the DOE map like it is in the same district as streets N/S of it. Again, don't have kids so not sure how any DOE stuff works.

Graffitigrammarian - I lived in Inwood years ago. Heard discussion about that building you linked to. Looked up in the Park Terrace East area as well as in the 150's. Some apts still on the market haven't budged in price and others seem to have changed very little. Would be nice (for buyers at least) if prices are more negotiable/lower over the next few months.

For those who live in in the WH / Inwood area - does the neighborhood feel the way it did last winter?

lookingforhome - do you feel like generally there's been an increase in crime over the last X amount of time?

emmitt - Eeek! anything you can elaborate on?

I think you have to wait at least 6 months before even considering a buy here. I had a listing on Park Terrace that I couldn't sell and there was very little buyer traffic and that was over 6 months ago.

theburkhardtgroup - do you say that b/c of inventory levels, pricing?

At 4260 the building had until relatively recently a court appointed receiver as the building tenants were at war with one another and had not been paying bills (and lawsuits were flying). If I recall correctly even the receiver was suing the building for non-payment.

Pricing and overall lack of people who want to invest in home ownership in the area. My analysis on the market is mostly anecdotal I would have to take a good look at comps going back to at least 2004. I do like the area especially around Inwood park and Isham Park and occasionally eat up at Mama Juanas. This is an area where perhaps the traditional Manhattan buyer would look when priced out of areas further south. But without anything but commonsense to guide me I know as this market in general deteriorates places like Inwood are going to fall harder and faster. Sellers will have tough decisions to make either price accordingly or continue to call Inwood home. Apartments were trading at prices owners had never expected to see in their lifetimes but if they still own that train has long past them.

The seller I represented wanted more than double what she paid less than 4 years ago and although she could have still made a nice profit if she would have taken my advice she was blinded by what the next door apartment sold for the year before. It's a nice little neighborhood but in my opinion patience will be well rewarded if you are looking to buy there. Good quality rentals are abundant take the neighborhood for a test run, if you like it perhaps you will save 20-30% by waiting a year to buy.

I completely agree with theburkhardtgroup. I've rented in WH for five years and have watched the meteoric rise and decline in prices. There is a unit that I can't afford, but watch for fun in Hudson View Gardens that was overpaid for in 2006. The owners now have it on the market for nearly 200k more than they paid and they have done NOTHING to the unit. When I went to the open house a few weeks back, I pointed out some severe water damage to the broker and she simply shrugged her shoulders. This is just an illustration that many sellers in the nabe are still delusional about the market.

As far as crime goes, I attended a neighborhood security meeting and things are heating up. I have not been affected, but I did for the first time see a flyer asking for witnesses to a mugging in the "good" area where I live. I love the neighborhood and am dedicated to staying here (it feels like a little small town oasis in the middle my favorite city in the world), but I would either rent here first or spend A LOT of time on the Washington Heights/Inwood Online message board before I made an investment here.

And I disagree that you need a car here unless you spend a lot of time in Brooklyn. It takes five years to get there from here. However, there are a ton of zipcars up here if you want to occasionally run around in and out of the city. There has been weekend work on the A that is a pita, but it is scheduled to be completed in the spring - but I'm not holding my breath.

some interesting analysis. i love the area and have invested in washington heights for years. in terms of pricing, it is silly to expect to make an enormous profit without putting a dime into the place, that's not unique to the area so i don't see that as a valid criticism.

crime? not sure if you run the statistics that crime is that much of an issue. a lot of my tenants are young women and elderly, along with a mix of families. haven't seen a fear factor or had any reports from my property manager that there is much to worry about.

i agree that one should spend time in the area before buying as pointed out above. but, again, that's a true statement for any area.

I lived in Inwood for a few years, so I know parts of the area pretty well. Lower down in WH I don't know as well. We have our eye on a few neighborhoods in 3 boros -- Manhattan (Inwood, WH), Queens (Sunnyside, Woodside, JH) and Brooklyn (Kensington, et al). And have seen prices go down, apts go off the market and are waiting to find the apt we really want.

@theburkhardtgroup - appreciate your insights. We're not in a huge rush (though would really like to just find something and move in) so I think waiting at least a few months, likely more, would not be a problem.

@lookingforhome - as I am not as familiar with WH as I am with Inwood -- what areas are considered the 'best' 'safest' or 'nicest'??

The only crime issue I've felt up here is with my car. I park on the street, and my car has been vandalized several times.

I'm in Inwood.

A couple of times thsy stole stuff, like when they popped the hood one night and stole the battery.

A couple of other times it was perhaps just carelessness, like when I went out to my car to discover that the outside rearview mirror, driver side, had been broken (by careless teens leaning against it, perhaps?)

One time, a punctured tire. Another time, the door shimmied open and the interior ransacked, but nothing of value taken.

What I have learned from all this is where not to park. Some streets, mostly those by the parks, where there are no apartment buildings around, are the places where the vandalism occurs.

You have to pick and choose your spots up here.

@GraffitiGrammarian -- what a bummer with your car. Stealing a battery? I shouldn't be surprised really, but...

I lived at 207th street (1 block from the train) and then later near Park Terrace East/West. I used to take walks in the evening near the park (at 207) in the summer and it was ok, but I never went in the parks at night (particularly Inwood Hill park).

Tandare, I love the parks, they are really lovely. But I won't walk in them by myself, not even in braod daylight.

(except along the periphery....)

When my big dog was still alive, I would take him with me, I felt safe. But you know you often see kids along the periphery of the parks smoking weed. They are probably harmless but it doesn't entice me to go farther into the interior.

I expect there are homeless people living in there. Esp. Inwood Hill Park, which is very wild and overgrown.

@GraffitiGrammarian - I never went far into Inwood Hill Park, supposed to be gorgeous but would have felt more comfortable with someone with me (or at least a map). Those teenagers seem to be the same ones from when I lived there. But I found that it was usually evenly populated by families, guys playing ball and older folks play mah jong, even in the evening.

I have gone for walks in Inwood Hill Park by myself (I am female) many many times - it is gorgeous and generally the only folks you see are joggers. I would not go in the park after dark but I would not go in any large park in the city after dark.

tandare, the alleged "good" part of WH is north of 181 and west of Broadway up to Fort Tryon. I think it's a crock as there are plenty of nice blocks south of 181 and east of Broadway. However, I like the convenience of living near the shops and restaurants on 181st and 187th and the amazing views of the Hudson. Many brokers call this micro-neighborhood "Hudson Heights" but it is actually not so subtle code for a less diverse area of Washington Heights.

I currently live on 218th and PTE and am currently thniking of moving south into the Heights. We looked at the listing on 70 Haven. The area seemed nice with the Hospital and Medical School around. Plus the A, C and 1 train are right there. Any thoughts on that part of WH, near 168th St ?

I live in WH's south of 181st street on Edgecombe ave in a prewar building that's quite beautiful but showing it's age. Affordability is what initially moved us here. The stretch along Edgecombe is beautiful high up on a cliff overlooking Yankee stadium with the high-bridge park and lots of tall old trees. I can easily park on the street, the train is just two blocks away,Jumel mansion is pretty cool and I have never had friendlier neighbors-you feel like you belong to a community. My guess is most people on SE would not be looking to live up here though. Both Edgecombe and Riverside are a nice little oasis from the rest of the hood and also around the A express stop and the hospital- 165th-168th along Bway cleans up a bit.

All this said at this stage of the game I would not buy up here, perhaps if I were younger, and certainly I would wait as I know prices will go down much further. Also a big plus for us is easy access to the GWB you can get out of the city in 5 minutes , can get to the West side highway or Harlem river dr. in 5 as well. Restaurants and shopping is limited outside of great Dominican style food, try Malecon for some of the best rotisserie chicken in town. You don't need a car but it does make life a bit easier and we shop at Fairway on 125th and the Hudson and pull right into their parking lot. As someone who lived below 14th street since 1981 this has been interesting to explore the city up North.