Walkthrough yielded tons of surprises

by the way... my screename was not meant to imply that my unit is in the 212 E 47th development. It's not. Just clarifying because I didn't want to start an undeserved rumor about the 212.

thanks!

We're sorry to hear that you've purchased a condo unit.

The biggest thing you have to worry about is a bumpy floor???

And you paid the prices they're charging at 212 E 47th St.???

zizizi, It is quite annoying that nothing of substance can be discussed on this board anymore. Unless someone posts about price declines, the answers are typical cynical

uppereast...ditto

Good luck -- I hope you find successful resolution. I had similar issues with my contractor on a gut renovation and we never finished --

CondoDude - You MUST get these things resolved before taking ownership of the unit. A buckled floor and the gaps you describe are signs of shoddy basic construction and are likely to worsen in time. It is actually quite possible you could walk, contract or no, if the unit has underlying structural problems, as a buckled floor could indicate.

Check out the following article for some interesting and possibly helpful reading:

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/court-decisions-clear-way-for-more-shoddy-development-lawsuits-SatDec2005145205002008/print

i had a crazy punchlist after hiring and inspector, and did get them all resolved - including all new floors and a wall and a bunch of other stuff. present your list and demand that it's all done prior to closing. we had a small punch list at closing at they did bring back people to fix stuff. chin up - it may all work out best of luck!

the best advice you will get is from your lawyer. You are paying him for this service.

squid - Thanks for the article! that was a good read.. I see that my problem is common.
Wisco - I actually took an inspector with me which really pissed them off... but it was my right to take one so I did.

Now I'm trying to get them to agree to all the items I found.. they keep sending me their list but I keep sending mine and asking them to update theirs. They end up adding to their list.. but only the small items.. they keep resisting adding the big ones. Isn't a punchlist supposed to be created by the buyer and then handed to the sales office/sponsor?

I'm going to keep trying my best.

When you have your official walkthrough there should be someone representing the sponsor in the apartment with you. They should more or less do the walk through with you and compile the punch list as you move around the apartment. If you haven't done this I would certainly set an appointment to do a walkthrough with someone from the sponsor's office. It's a lot harder for them to dispute things when they are looking at them standing next to you. And if you really want to be thorough hire a building inspector (it will run you probably $750) but they will draft a report on the condition of the unit that you can present to the sponsor if you so chose.

NordBergCorp - yeah I did the first walkthrough with the representative from the sponsor and a representative from the construction team. We walked through every room and noted each item... I kept a list and so did they. The problem is that as soon as I left they went and typed up their list and sent to me and asked me to acknowledge and agree to the items on the list.

BUT they left off several issues that we discussed in person during the walkthrough. So I replied back asking for them to be added and now we're doing the back and forth.

Also I did hire a licensed inspector which was great because they spotted several things I didn't even know to look at and test. Would definitely recommend.

I don't really know what I am going to do even if they add all those things to the punchlist... the apt is inhabitable.. but it's really crappy workmanship. They have my money in escrow 10%. I don't want to lose the money and I don't want to accept the apt as is.

Do you know how desperate the sponsor is? You could send a letter threatening to walk unless you can re-negotiate and see how far that gets you.

So far only one person has closed and I think they forced that one through because the contract I had would have been void if no closings happened before dec 31 2008.

I would threaten to walk.. but I can't afford to lose my 10%. I've been waiting to buy for years and that 10% took a lot of pain to save and gather up.

Threatening to walk and actually walking are obviously two very different things. I know someone who was in a similar situation as yourself, had their lawyer draft a not very nice letter highlighting the issues (many of which you mentioned) and at the end said they were contemplating their options, including the possibility of walking. The sponsor was pretty desperate. He came back and said he was willing to re-negotiate. How much, I don't know, nor do they as of yet. But the threat of them walking was enough to make the sponsor give in to a certain extent.

and a stipulation was that the sponsor fix the things that were blatantly constructed improperly.

212condodude...you sound like a man who wants the apartment and not have to start looking all over again. Negotiate with the sponsors.I wouldn't threaten to walk. If they don't make the improvements then you will get your 10% back. good luck.

Yeah I am talking to my lawyer about options.. he advised me to try and get all items on the punchlist and then see where we go from there. I have pictures and everything to show exactly what is wrong and where. The pictures are simple and you can still see the obvious poor construction.

I think threatening to walk is probably a good idea... especially since only 1 unit has closed... the sponsor has been spending $ building this place... they have got to want to get paid.

CondoDude - If there are structural defects you may have a fighting chance to bail and get your deposit back. If you haven't already, get yourself an attorney. Take photos of all the problems and keep records of all correspondence with the sponsor.

Honestly, if the building is a piece of crap I'd want out completely - forget renegotiating a lower price. Shoddy construction will always be shoddy construction. That's not worth buying at any price.

I should clarify that when I said 'constructed improperly' I didn't mean the building or the structural components of the building, I meant things like a closet door or the framing of a wall or placement of light switches etc.

Your contract should stipulate material or non material items. You won't get your deposit back because of a scratch here or there (most likely) though you would definitely have a chance if you discovered the apartment is smaller than the in the offering plan or something along those lines.

CondoDude - I'm also frankly concerned about there being only one other closing so far. It's possible the sponsor will decide to convert unsold units to rentals (as has happened in buildings like One Hanson in Bklyn) which, IMO, is not a desirable situation for owners.

^ totally agree.

Yeah rentals would not be ideal.. but I can't do anything about that. When I signed my contract it clearly said that the sponsor can elect to convert any remaining units to rentals if the market value of the units drops by 10%.

I'm not overly concerned about living among renters.. it's not ideal and not desirable but I am more concerned about my unit right now and the crappy construction. When I go to sell this unit... all these things will come back to bite me and will hurt my pocket in terms of the sale price.

Oh an btw.. I do have an attorney... and I did use a bldg inspector. The only thing I don't have is a broker. I negotiated the deal directly with the sales office.

I think you should have your attorney write a strongly worded letter saying you are contemplating your options including the possibility of bailing (which doesn't mean you actually have to of course) and see where it gets you. Can't hurt.

NordBergCorp - Yeah you made your case... I think the letter will be my next step.

I agree with Nordberg. But before you send a letter threatening to walk, it might make sense to have your attorney thoroughly louse-comb your contract and see if there are any potential outs (if in fact you're interested in bailing completely) considering the myriad defects you have described.

Remember, a letter threatening to walk will invite negotiation. You may not want negotiation at this point. You may want a clean break.

I actually would prefer to close on this... since I need a place to live and as far as comparables for the sq footage and location and proximity to subways, I think I am happy with what I am getting.

It's just the shoddy workmanship that is making me hate the deal.

That being said, sometimes it's best to completely walk away if I can get the deposit and start over.

I'll get the letter sent and see if it opens some doors for negotiation... at the same time I'll see if I can find an out via my attorney.

btw thx NordBergCorp and Squid for all the advice

Well, if you do want to complete the deal I think you have a very good chance using a threat to walk as a negotiation tool. Developers are well aware that buyers are walking away from deposits all over town. The sponsor would far rather have a sale than yet another empty unit.

Keep us posted.

Squid - that's what I'm hoping... 10% is pennies to them.. they should want to get a unit sold.

I'll give it a shot

212CondoDude, I totally feel your pain and wish you the best of luck.
I am having a similar experience. I am in contract for a 1 bedroom in a new building and during my walk through I found that the kitchen is not the layout as shown on the floorplan. When brought this to thier attention they said they would change the kitchen, I would have to accept different appliances.
And, the contract states there are going to be 3 ptac units and there are only two. The bedroom has basebord heating instead of a ptac unit. I now do not want this unit. My lawyer has sent 3 letters about this and now we are totally being ignored... It has been a while now and I dont know what to do?
any suggestions...

I know that any material changes to the offering plan need to be in the form of an amendment which should have been brought to your attention in writing. Did you or your lawyer receive the amendments?

If they changed the floorplan without notifying you... you probably have a good case to get out of the deal.

I'm not a pro though... see what others say on here...

212, you are correct. These changes should have been brought to my attention. Now the biggest problem is that I / we (my lawyer and I) cannot get anyone to respond to the request's. It is very fustrating as I am sure you know. I am curious to see what the other have to say. Thanks for the input.

Would be interested in knowing who the developer is. Had similar issues 2 years ago when we bought and STILL trying to resolve them with the builder.

212- you should have an attorney file an action for deposit recovery with the NYS AG. They are consumer friendly and it sounds like you have been screwed and your Sponsor will likely be unable to remedy the poor workmanship.

Maraman, good idea.. I was reading a lot online about the AG being innundated with complaints about new construction quality.

I just spoke with nys AG and they told me that these issues had to go through the court system.

SSNYC and 212CondoDude, i am sorry to hear about your situations, and me best advise having had similar experiences as a buyer and a broker, is to be extremely aggressive with the developers. They are ignoring your letters SSNYC becuase they are hoping you will just get frustrated and give in. Some things in a walk through are common place, and acceptable if they are easy fixes, but when the developer feels like it is a major fix, for example your floors 212 CondoDude, they will go out of their way to avoid giving you a concrete response as to how/when it will be fixed. Here is what I tell my buyers to do in these situations-
DO NOT CLOSE until you have IN WRITING the method by which the issue will be addressed if it is a major one, and, best case scenario - DO NOT CLOSE until the issue has been addressed to your satisfaction. It is not actually so easy for the developer to just "keep" your 10 percent. It is in an escrow account and they cannot touch it yet. Any developer in this market is not going to want to try and resell the unit at a lower price, they should address your issues and move on. However you as the buyer really do have to be a hard ass about making sure they follow through and repair.

nycbrokerdax - yeah the last communication I had with the sponsor was about the punchlist.. I'm trying to get them to acknowledge the items and then I want to negotiate some sort of resolution which means they would fix it... or compensation which would give me the cash to fix the problem on my own.

212CD- I would try to get the floor issue especially fixed before you close, it sounds like they are a mess, and the sponsor has to provide a certain level of work. You could also try to find out from other owners how the sponsor has been when it comes to resolving issues.

nybrokerdax, I have been thinking that they are ignoring me with hope that I will fold. My unit is nothing like the unit in the floorplan. My biggest complaint is the heating system. I think because the contract states there will be 3 ptac units and there are only two that this would be somewhat easy. I think my lawyer is getting tired of taking my calls but whatelse is there to do. The last communication I had with the sponcer was when they told me they would change the kitchen. They never addressed the issue of the heating system. What does it take for them to keep your 10% and how long will this take if it has to go through the court system?

This iss the first time and definitely the last time I buy something pre-construction. The small savings you might get isn't worth the risk and headache of waiting to see what you actually will get as a finished product. There is no way another buyer would walk into my unit and pay the asking price.

212, I feel the same way about my unit.

ssnyc, please forgive all typos in advance I am on my iPhone and I have big hands:). If they offering plan describes three heating unit and they are shown on the floorplan in addition to the kitchen being incorrect then it is certainly greatly different than what was offered... There is substantial evidence that in today market firstly the developer would not risk tying it up in court as keep in mind during that process they would not be able to resell it to anyone else AND the attorney general has become much stricter with regards to the difference between offering plan and what is delivered. Also tour attorney will just have to follow through and do his job-- I assume you paid a flat fee which is why he or she is complAining but it comes with the territory some deals are just more complicated than others!

212cd-- it really totally depends on the developer, unfortunately at this point in time given that the market is what it is perhaps they were rushing to finish and close, and perhaps neglected the details which will come back to haunt them now since it is below standard work

nycbroker, The floorplan only shows two heating units. The floorplan does not show a ptac unit in the bedroom. At the time of contract, I asked they put in an ammedment in the contract saying there would be a ptac unit in the bedroom. They did, the ammendment clearly states there will be 3 ptec units. However in the finished product there are only two ptac units in the main space. In the bedroom there is basebord heating and a split system for the air conditiong. I know it is in my lawyers hands, it is just very fustrating I spoke to AG today and they told me that they have nothing to do with it, they said it would have to be worked out through the court system. Also, I want to say thanks for your imput. It is much appreciated.