building at 30 West 63rd Street

Sorry - haven't logged in in a while.. I have noise problems about 2-3 times a week, typically from 9am to the early afternoon, only on weekdays. Floorwise, I am in the low 20s. About twice a month, one of the bathrooms is shut down for the full day.

W - I think 2 months free on a 14 month lease is the best you can do. I happened to rent when the prices were at the bottom (for the building) a couple months ago and I had the same structure.

That said, I think you might be able to do better on the price.. the perfect comp is 1 block north -
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/one-lincoln-plaza

They have a nicer lobby (in my opinion) and otherwise, an almost identical building with similar if not the same layouts. 1 beds are going for 2700 with 1 month free, which is definitely better than 3000 with 2 months free (if you plan on staying for more than a year). And you can walk in to their leasing office without any of that "broker stink". :)

I think 3000 for a 600 sq ft 1 BR with 2 months free (2570ish effective rent) is good, but as noted, next year they will leave it at 3000 (or potentially higher, market dependent) without the 2 free months, so think about whether you're prepared to pay that or if you don't plan to stay long.

I actually prefer 30 lincoln to 1 lincoln, but that's my preference.

You do not need a broker to rent here so skip the broker, as for noise, there will be construction for years to come, six days a week, yes six days a week!!!

I really don't get any of this noise.

I guess I'm not in my apartment all that much. During the week, I'm at work. On the weekends, I don't hear anything.

With or without a broker, it's 2 month's rent free.

So silly question, but what the heck does a broker get if I'm getting the 2 months free?

And the building people said construction was 5 days a week, not 6, so they're being sleazy and lying?

I also found another unit for slightly less and it comes with the club membership as well - again through a broker. I haven't seen it yet though, but the broker said it was renovated.

zbe, thank you for the comp - now I can consider that one too. This website is seriously fantastic.

Condo rules state no construction on weekends but on my floor and above me in my line they are working on the weekends. Bullsfan wait until they start working above or below you, you can hear 2 floors each direction and apartments to either side of you and several doors down. They worked on the apartment next to me for 4 months it was terrible, hall was filled with sheetrock dust and other construction waste. They also worked in that apartment on the weekends.

You notice 14F is trying to flip for 250k more already?

objective 3rd party opinion anyone? i have worked (as a dogwalker) for folks in this building for going on 5yrs. this building epitomizes the idea that different things make different people happy. the staff in this building are fantastic. truly some of the nicest, hardest working people i know in the nabe. the only other building with staff on par to these guys is Time Warner with prices and maintenance about 5x higher.comparing these 2 buildings (they are apples and oranges) is not the point just simply pointing out how unusually professional the 30 lincoln staff are. as for the building the pros beyond the location and aforementioned staff are hard to find. the walls are paper thin, the construction noise is unreal( if u haven't heard it yet you will), you will wait a lifetime for either of the 2 service elevators, the pre- renovation interiors are horrific, the ceiling heights are woefully low giving no sense of volume to any room...ect. ect...loving the lincoln center area is a matter of personal taste loving this building for its quality is a stretch...just my 2 cents

What is the pricing per year for the rooftop Oasis club? Someone told me 8K but I thought I had heard 3 on the tour.

What is the pricing per year for the rooftop Oasis club? Someone told me 8K but I thought I had heard 3 on the tour.

I think it is 3K for a single person (for the year), 5K for a couple, and 8K for a family..

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/fire-sale-at-30-lincoln-plaza-prompts-lawsuit-against-milstein

Lawsuit on the deals. They would not offer us a deal at the same time they were giving deals to their friends. I am glad others are going after them.

zbe The Oasis club is not worth the money. Equinox in the Time Warner building is much better and about 2k a year is a better deal.

All the people who got the apartments on the cheap are flipping. A little strange when they are making insiders hold for at least 2 years. What a sham!!

chris, any idea what they're flipping for? they seem to be emptying at 1500/sq ft.

Well for example they bought some of the one bedrooms at 500-550k (I have seen at least 12 at this time and they are listing them around 880k still less then insider price. Also these same people bought several 2 bedroom apartments for 650-900k less then insider price for a one bedroom and are trying to flip for 1.3-2 mill. Bullsfan they bought to flip, just wonder why they do not have the same rules as an insider. They sold at discount to make the numbers in order to get the conversion passed. We would have loved to bought our apartment for the deal price's they were selling at , during the time we showed interest, they said no deals, but the truth is out. Milstein can not be trusted, this whole conversion showed his true color.

http://curbed.com/archives/2007/10/26/curbedwire_huge_nyt_trees_in_midtown_bedbugs_bedbug_dogs_at_30_lincoln_plaza_condo_idd_on_the_ues.php

correct to assume no current bed bug issues?

chris, it would seem odd to me that there's a 2 year hold period for insiders and no hold period for outsiders.

There's a good argument, I would think, that you can bypass the 2 yr hold period

I still do not understand how so many people have bought at 60% off when the building will not give that price to a insider. Apartments in my line are selling for 60-70% less then I can by mine for, what is up with this. Anyone know how that lawsuit is going??

Milstein has filed the plans with the city: http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2009102100234003 (all the way to bottom, then View Document.)

Interesting to see all the big combos, and how the theaters fit into the sub-cellar.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/7-west-61-street-manhattan

The listings above are clearly for 30 West 63rd Street. The developers have the same apartments available for rent on both building pages - with discounts on the fake building page.

Why is streeteasy allowing the developers/brokers to advertise apartments on a lot that streeteasy itself describes as "vacant land"??

They are flipping apartments bought for 500-650k at this time, so if you are looking do a little DD first

10O-920,000, 7O-500,000 Looks like the person to buy 10O paid 140,000 per floor more, what a rip

The guy that bought 10-0 also bought 10-P, for about 2.2 Million, he signed about 3 months before the sale to outsiders which was between 10/08- 12/08 when the prices went down more then 50%, lots of deals cut 12/02/08 7-O went on 12/02/08 also (from ACRIS)

The sale of 8W is a little odd. It shows the seller as a Martha S. at 62 62nd street apt 21A to a Wayne yang in 14K in 30 Lincoln, then it shows the sale to a Euching, Lin under a LLC cover for 500,000K. What kind of shenanigans are they up to?

I am interested in buying in the building. This discussion is tremendously helpful - I can see the flipping happening. I will go and try to see units/amenities tomorrow but apparently the construction/finishing is not good based on your comments. Any advice on buying or not in the building at this point?

There will be construction for years to come. The walls are paper thin and gut renovated units have no upgrades to the walls so you can hear everything in the apartments near you. Many units have been sold for very low prices so please look at acris before considering any unit. JMHO on this I myself would not buy unless I could get my unit for 800.00 per SF. Do your own DD, but I feel there are better buildings in the area for a better price.

chris, I think you're a little too militant the other way.

Yes - there is some construction. Yes - the walls are relatively thin (although not worse than the last 2 buildings I lived in, both in the area).

However, maybe I've been lucky, but I haven't encountered the crazy construction or noise you are describing, and the unit next door to me has been under construction for two weeks. Maybe it's the fact I'm out the door by 9 for work and come back after 5, so I can see how being there during the day would suck.

If I could find 1k/sq foot right now, I'd jump at it. I agree the low floor 1400/sq ft prices are too high, but the right price is probably somewhere in between medium-term, and closer to the 1400 long term (once construction is done), and buying is a long-term decision -at least for me.

So if anybody has a unit for 1k/sq ft, let me know :)

As an added note, I can't believe they didn't do more with the walls in their renovations... seems like a smart/value increasing move.

Bulls fan not militant here. Yes I am home during a few days a week that is the problem. Also I can hear every thing in the gut renovated apartment with new tenants next door and I mean everything! As for the building being a good investment only if you have 10 years or more, inflation will keep prices in the current range for years to come. The D line apartments and other assorted units that were sold for 500-800 PSF are a fair price for the quality or lack of quality that is provided in this building.JMHO

I am in the building throughout the day. I do not live there but provide a service to several people everyday. I have been in the building 5 days a week for 5+ yrs. Let me say that chris is absolutely not "militant the other way". I recommend you take an elevator ride on the other bank of elevators bullsfan to see whats coming your way. Take a trip up to the 24th floor for instance. I'm mot saying I know the correct price for these places but damn I know i wouldn't want to live there.

Thanks for the perspective. I called the sales office, they say they would call back and nothing... Yes, if anybody has a unit for 1k/sq ft, let me know too... I would jump it.

Looks like 14F sold for 820k... over 1400/sq ft. Don't think we're getting 1k/sq ft, deb :(

That was sold by Kim she has been fliping units. Remember in the 1980's how realestate agents would flip to each others to drive up prices..... Thought no one could sell for 2 years, another downside

Also insiders price on that unit was about 400k more then the flip, but kim or her friend picked it up for much less then the selling price

yes, Kim is flipping... she has another one listed - 2 BR - and it is very likely to be a flipping too...

bullsfan - is there any other way to go about it to get a unit there?

Are you talking about 9D? The D line had many units go for 600-800 PSF

Yes, it is listed for 1,890 sqf... That is a bit out of control...

Anyway, if anyone knows of someone who would be willing to sell - not at 1,800 sqf! - please send me an email at deb2010nyc@gmail.com. Thank you!

9D went for 820,000 from ACRIS

Other 2 bedrooms in other lines went on the cheap also 11K went for 900,000

I think we've established that a lot of people got very good deals pre-conversion.

Now the question is who wants to flip for only a minimal profit - which I imagine is nobody.

Will have to watch the outcome of the lawsuit, will start in March unless delayed....

Contract to purchase unit was signed on 06/27/09 By James Trahanas of 19 Verona drive Riverside CT 06879, for 786,598 Mortgage also includes Joseph Sbarra of 5 west 19th street 7th floor 10011

Kim is trying to flip it for 1.7 Mill 19P
sold for 854 psf just 8 months ago

just wondering why would 4G be sold at 5% below the insider price. would you consider it a wonderful deal?

Opreagirl 437 would be 50% below insider price in old offering book, some one bedrooms in better lines sold for 500K so even at 437 not a good deal

The encouraging thing is that it sold closer to the 1k/sq ft which I hope to be able to eventually get in at. Of course it's a very small apt on a very low floor, so have to think 1 br's at an intermediate floor will be a little higher psf.

Bullsfan
I would think they would take 800-1000 psf 3-15th floor for any unit except P-line. Only a few units sold since 2008 contracts. We are not 15CPW, walls are paper thin, low ceilings, cheap windows and bad management, several great doormen but a very expensive club with sub-par equipment which cost extra.

Also the dirty laundry rooms are a negative

chris, that just simply doesn't seem to be the market for these apartments (both based on asking prices and closings) other than the sales in late 2008.

Bullsfan they are having a hard time selling any units at this time, only a few have changed hands since 2008, I have not heard if the lawsuit is finished yet but will look into it this week. This building should not get any higher prices psf then 61 west 62nd street.

Bullsfan more 800 psf closings on renovated units
6O Marcelle Rosenstrauch
12B Geoffrey Platt
17O Gideon Platt
And remember Howard said no deals

Looks like realestate agents buying on the cheap
Was looking at facebook and Marcelle is Geoffrey's friend, looks like Geoffrey and his shell LLC helped his brother and friend get great deals. Still do not understand why insiders could not get these same deals.

amazing! how many one-bed units did they sell for 500k??? so many steals! wish i got one. sigh...

Now 9R being sold for 330,000K more then it closed for a few months ago. Flipping

lets see how fast they can sell at this price point. :)

I turned off the insider version, chris, but it looks like those prices are still just for the sponsor 'deals' and not for current re-sales.

Considering I'm ready and willing to pay 1,000/sq ft for an apt, and nobody's selling at that price, I'm going to guess that it's just not available.

PLATT, HILARY 6K another 800 psf deal, that PLatt family has been real busy in this building, wonder if they hang with Howard in the Hamptons

Tavivian is flipping or selling unit 8F that has not closed yet. He has however participated in the fire sale so this could be one of his units bought for around 500K but not closed yet.

Found the close it was sold during the fire sale , this unit is owned by Duan Kok she closed this year at 509,000 for 8F, But Tavivian does own cheap units here.

Chris, do you happen to know how these people found out about the super cheap fire deals??? thru their agents??? any info. would be appreciated. have a great evening ahead!!!

Was told it was a quiet orderly sale to real-estate agents and Friends to sell enough units to get the conversion.(No one will know the truth about this except Howard and management) The office told us no deals on prices at the time all these units went into contract to outsiders. There is a lawsuit which I am not part of and I am not sure what is happening with that. Did you buy?

I did but not at the 500k price. sigh..anyway, thanks for the info., chris! you are the best! :)

Melissa Dewitt selling 6F closed at 507,000 in Feb 2010 now selling for 935,000

9D went into contract. The sellers doubled their investment. gosh! that was quick.

wonder what the sale price on 9D was... even if 20% off asking, that's 1,300/sq ft

Remember in the late 80's realestate agents would sell houses to friends and flip again to inflate the prices.

chris, that seems like a lot of taxes to pay for the show. 37k just in transfer taxes, assuming no mortgages and no other closing costs (assuming it's a sham).

Hey there people...I have lived here for over 10 years. This building has always had ups and downs, and yes, the MILSTEIN family dramas. But, what has happened the past 2-3 years is disgusting. Yes, most of the staff here is wonderful. My children have grown up with them here.
But, when they brought in Steve Rossi as the Building Manager, I believe the lies and shady business practices reached new levels of deceit.
Don't ever have a problem here. We had a huge black mold contamination last year because of old, leaky tiles. From improper removal, to sickness, to taunting and mocking from Mr. Rossi (like we were crazy), this has been a hellacious year- ending with them taking us to court for non-payment (of two months rent). Mr. Rossi is standing his ground that there was NEVER mold. It's sick...we have numerous reports and affidavits.
This building used to be like a small town. Many people have had issues similar to mine w/ Rossi over BEDBUGS, LEAKS, MOLD, huge ROACHES/WATERBUGS, WALLS and CEILINGS falling in etc. We all talk here.
Anyway, we are leaving soon, but what a sad ending to what used to be our wonderful "home". I'm in contact w/two newspapers both dying to do a big piece on this building....

Mommamaia
Can you give me your contact info (yahoo e-mail) I would like to talk to you.

Momamaia
They are still working in hallways with an expired work permit (120137672-01-EW-OT) Tracking-6C2537, it expired on May 1, 2010 and I can not find a new permit in the BIS system. Nice to see they do everything legit. On top of that construction workers in hall are loud and rude to tenants.

They are indeed! Rude and quite inappropriate at times. How do I give you my info privately? Thanks Chris

e-mail me
lincolnresident30@yahoo.com

Do not get to pumped up on the price for 21S it is two apartments 21S and T, for this price and was another deal, great view from this unit I do have to say, also on 21 you have 21 OPR, combined

I am new to this scene - love the location - but trying to get a read if buying here is a good idea?

Wow!

Wow - i just read through this whole thread - quite interesting. Does any one know of actual new buyers that have come into this building and what they are paying per square foot above say the 20th floor? Put aside who got what price when (I realize that some people seemed to have gotten great deals in the whole conversion process and then sold again) - how do you think the prices quoted (9D $1.6, 19P $1.7, ect) compare to the market for similar buildings in this neighborhood. It seems from Streeteasy that $1200-1500 psq ft is not crazy especially on a high floor with view of park? Also is the "Kim" some of you referred to Michelle Kim the broker? Is she trustworthy?

Only 2 apartments have sold since December 2009 all others sold during fire sale or to some unlucky insiders whom paid much more

30 west 61st street is a great building at a better price unless you want to pay for Park views. Also 80 CPW has about the same asking prices but much nicer building with direct park views

thanks very much - I am in Asia so very hard to keep track

E40, for what it's worth, I've been trying to buy on a medium floor (7-15) in the building. I've done a lot of comparison shopping, and the 'right' price seems to be about 1100/1200 psf (no park view). I think the 1500-1600 psf asking price is a bit high for the units currently being offered.

Unfortunately, nobody is selling at the 'right' price or below.

I looked at 30 W 61st and I think 30 W 63 is a much better building, at least for what I want.

If I were in the market for a co-op and had more money to spend, 80 CPW would be a great choice... so if you are looking for the park view and the coop can work for you, you definitely should take a good look at that bldg.

Bullsfan - thanks again - very helpful - I am only able to look at Condo I think given my situation - but i will keep looking - still think 30 W 63rd is very interesting. E

Just to compare to P line in 30 Lincoln

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/520539-coop-80-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

Less per square foot then P lin in 30 lincoln and same CC

It is a co-op though. beautiful apartment.

Sales are really heating up 2 closings since the fire sale. I guess all the units will be sold by 2110

I see they have taken 9D off as sold,it sold for 820,000 during the fire sale I do not see another sale on this unit in ACRIS at this time will look next week

9D sold for 1.5 million to Edward Mendelsohn, looks like this flip made 680,000 dollars for holding it 6
months. Wonder why no one in NYC looks at Comps in building and area??

7F is under contract for 500K? Didn't see the listing at all before. hmm...

Might just be the market... Clearly there's one market for sponsor sales and another market for "fair market value" in the building. I moved on in my search for building because 1100/sq ft (my max) doesn't seem to be happening in this building.

"9D sold for 1.5 million to Edward Mendelsohn, looks like this flip made 680,000 dollars for holding it 6
months. Wonder why no one in NYC looks at Comps in building and area??"

Makes you wonder if the buyer had representation. If so did that agent openly and transparently disclose what had happened in that building? If not, why?

On 9D makes me think they are doing the same thing the Rushmore did to inflate prices. They were giving large sums of money back after the close. This made it seem like the apartments had a higher value but just a suckers snow job. I have heard that some buildings doing this give 10-40% back at closing.

Chris: Do you know for sure that this happened at the Rushmore?

2nd hand. I was told that by someone in the Rushmore that I work with

Sorry. It seems implausible. I know a partner in a law firm who offered a lot of money for the first apartment that re-sold and got turned down.

Bullsfan, so do you think the buyer just did not have an agent that looked at comps in Building??

chris, I think it's an exercise in comparing apples and oranges.

Comparing sales that were done under certain conditions to what's available now doesn't seem to be the guiding market principle. I would liken it to comparing parking rates that are available for early birds with parking rates for broadway shows. If you look at what the guy who came at 6am paid, you're getting killed, but that's just not available for you anymore at 6pm, so the comparison point is what you can get in the area for what you judge to be a comparable building.

The sale prices you reference were artificially low and not reflective of a 'fair market value' standard, and the best judgment for FMV will be what people pay in these resales. So far it's been fairly high, and the offering prices are at about that price point and not moving down.

From NYT
According to the reports, the average sales price for a Manhattan apartment ranges from $1.34 million to $1.43 million, with three agencies reporting an increase of about half a percent from the last quarter and one agency showing a 2 percent decline. But compared with last year, the averages reflect an increase of about 9 percent for three agencies and a decline of 1 percent for the fourth brokerage.

And Bullsfan The remodeled units and common areas are not done high end as the brokers are promoting it. Just walk down any hallway and see the bubbles under wall paper, the cheap glue down carpets in the halls and the subpar sheet rock, the tile in front of the elevators is uneven and poorly done. I wonder is anyone is inspecting the work done by the contractors in this building. As for some of the units being sold, Kitchens and bathrooms are home depot grade remodels

What a deal 22PR closed for 1,393,731 to Daniel and Ziva Kuhn what a deal. Poor guy with 17P is trying to sell for 1.7 million but he did buy that unit for under 900k.

Danial Kuhn was a insider whom got a deal he lived in 26O now bought 22PR for 1.3, they are asking more then that for one bedrooms on lower floors. How do they expect someone to be able to unload their apartments when deals are being cut like this and only if you have an in with Howard.