Riverside Drive in 90's and 100's

oops...I mean I spend the majority of my time east of broadway. Why do children ruin one's brain?!?!

I have no problem at all with RSD in the 90's and 100's, and think there are some amazing buildings in that stretch. I can, however, understand someone's concern about strolling along ANY dark, less traveled avenue late at night--that's never a great idea.

My mother-in-law lives in a terrific co-op in the low 100's. Does she wander about on RSD in the wee hours? No. But she feels perfectly safe going about her daily routine in the area (night or day), with B'way shops, the bus, and subway all easily accessible from her building.

I have to admit to a slight niggle of concern as the economy continues to worsen--areas like Riverside Park could wind up taking a hit safety-wise (after dark) if things really go into the toilet. Here's hoping that doesn't happen...

uwsmom: I lived at 119th and RSD for a while many years ago. I never felt fully at ease walking along RSD from 116th to 119th (exacerbated by the lack of side streets along that stretch) and always breathed a sigh of relief when arriving at my building. More than once, I saw a doorman tussling with a loiterer in that area. I am sure it would be more nerve wracking walking along blocks where there are no doormen. In more recent times, I have often felt uncomfortable leaving a friend's place on 102nd and RSD late at night and find myself speedwalking to Broadway to get away from the eerie silence of RSD and West End.

I've lived on RSD in the 90s for the past 10 years. I really like the quite nature of the street in this section. It's quiet because there is no commercial activity, obviously, and because the park islands starting at around 91st street create a little used residential access road, that goes one-way uptown, parallel to the main drive. Not only is there little pedestrian traffic here, but because of the access road, there is also little car traffic. In ten years, I have never seen anyone menacing on this road or sidewalk. At night I generally walk directly to broadway to visit the commercial strip or to stroll south or north or to take the subway. If I'm catching a cab WEA is excellent. However, the suburban-like quiet of RSD means you don't stroll late at night--use broadway.

I love RSD in the 90's and the 100's. The park itself is great along that stretch as well...the wide promenade, the ball fields, the dog run, the cafe....when your kids gets older, you'll appreciate the access.There are many AMAZING buildings along that stretch that don't have the "buzz" of some others, but are wonderful nonetheless. (258, 285, 300, 395, 404.420 to name just a few).

That neighborhood is only improving along Broadway and I believe it will continue to improve. Having said that, I would never walk along RSD at night, just as I would never walk along CPW at night. WEA is fine, Broadway is fine.

I thought I was going to get bashed for being a nervous ninny and am relieved to see that my hesitation may be valid. Are most of you woman who are responding ;). I wonder if that makes a difference? It's not uncommon for my husband to come home from work well after midnight (as I'm sure is the case for many new yorkers), so the warning to stear clear of RSD at night in this area would likely be a deal breaker for us. And, like I said, it was 6:30... evening arrives very early in the winter, too early to have to actively avoid the street to your front door, IMO.

Would folks make the same recommendation for RSD in 70's & 80's at night or is there a marked difference? I didn't get the sense that WEA would be risky late at night, but I could be wrong. And, I personally would not have a problem walking central park west at night in the 70's and 80's. There's lots of traffic. Though, of course, it's never the wisest decision to stroll ANYWHERE during the witching hours.

I have to agree with nshipley. I love RSD and I would say RSD from 116th down to 105 is fairly safe, though quiet. From 105th to 96th always felt a bit less safe to me probably because there are fewer doorman buildings and it's 2 blocks to Broadway vs. 1 block (WEA ends at 106th). In the summer, when it's light out until 8pm it's a terric area mostly because you can enjoy the park (and tot lots) until quite late.

Personally, I find that when you are not in YOUR neighborhood at night, and it is not a busy street, it is easier to be nervous. There are far riskier areas of the UWS. Take the sixties near the Amsterdam Ave projects or the side streets that take you to Riverside Blvd in the 60s and 70s. I wish uwsmom, would stop hating on other peoples neighborhoods. (Just because she is on record for not feeling safe at night north of 86th St (or whatever she has posted) What you call a risk is EXACTLY why I love my neighborhood--the park and quiet. Where else in NYC can you hear crickets from your open window in the summer? The future newly renovated express subway station at 96th street may make converts of some of these 70s living nervous nellies.

I don't think it's unsafe, it just requires extra attention. Perversely, being more alert may actually make it safer.

I'm sorry to have given you a bad impression PMG. What I wrote is just my opinion and I certainly don't "hate on" anyone's neighborhood. I agree with you that it is easier to be nervous in unfamiliar territory. Personally, I like well populated areas after dark.

No harm intended, uwsmom, I don't disagree with your guidelines for safety. In the 1970s I don't think many unpopulated side streets or parks were safe after dark.

isn't it all about perception and pricing? would think that general perception is that the further north you go, the more possibility of a problem. may or may not be actually true -- i have no idea. no doubt that Bway between 96th and 106 "feels" different than either above or below that line. i also think that there was a general perception of increased gentrification continuing but that our new reality has (for better or worse--and one could certainly argue that point) choked that possibility off.

the two ariel buildings seem (to me at least) hideously out of place.

Just moved from 100th St. between RSD and WEA (down to the 80's) and loved it the whole time. Had no problem with wife/nanny strolling the kids in that area in early evening. Agree that it gets super quiet at night, so some would reasonably feel a little nervous - but never heard of any problems.

Hmmm, this is interesting. I presume RSD pricing, and the streets between RSD & WEA or RSD & Bdwy, don't take into account the potential negative after dark. Or do they? Or perhaps I'm overstating the negative...

"Or perhaps I'm overstating the negative..."

uwsmom, you are. The pricing is no more inflated on those blocks than anywhere else. Just because you see danger, doesn't mean that it is there or that others see it. Don't you read any of local crime reports? Please give evidence of this so called "danger".

I presume those are all taken into account in pricing apartments. I certainly consider them. Having seen what NYC was like before the boom, I try to envision the worst-case scenario with respect to which direction neighborhoods will go. I personally like that area a whole lot but safety concerns on those quiet streets is certainly on my radar.

PMG: I would be interested in crime reports as well, but don't you think perception of danger also matters?

I may be mistaken, but I believe the farther north you go in UWS, the more crime occurs.

I did not use the work "danger". There is a difference between a "dangerous" area and an area that may not have a lot of crime, but still would be unwise to hang around after dark. RSD strikes me as one of those areas. I also think RSD is considered prime real estate and is priced accordingly. This seems slightly irrational to me. I suppose the good outweighs the bad for most.

sorry...word (not work ;)

I think you can take "perception" out of the equation. A more isolated area, in theory, could be more ripe for crime.

Until we have reports of muggings or other crimes, or any real evidence of lack of safety, RSD and environs is a very safe neighborhood. If you are scared, that is your problem.

LOL PMG, I'm only stating what I think is a reasonable negative about living on RSD. I can think of far more positives, because there are.

if there is no reported crime, that hanging around is not dangerous, is it? The reason why people don't hang around is that no rational person wants to invite crime. I wouldn't hang out on broadway, either, even though it is perceived as safer street. Since when do moms hang out after dark on city streets?

I would "hang out" on broadway (if I had reason to hang ;). Meaning, linger..as in, not feel compelled to rush off of the street.

uwsmom as a street walker, err I mean lingerer, I see the makings of a sitcom in this blogging.

PMG: I have to say, your overreaction to a couple of comments about perceived safety only makes me think that there is a problem.

So you are advising people in NYC not to hang out but that if they are scared it is their problem? Get a grip.

Has anyone else noticed a pattern to uwsmom's postings? Could she be an alias for someoen else?

malthus, I am just defending a street I own property on. I have never experienced a safety concern in 10 years. So if someone wants to blog about something that is a "perception" with no evidence, than, yes I take offense. They are talking down my home and my investment.

That section of RSD is gorgeous during the day. At night, though, it's downright creepy. I'd frankly think twice about buying on upper RSD now that the economy is faltering. The Drive (above 86th) was quite shady during the 70's and early 80's, with considerable drug activity in Riverside Park.

One wonders whether things could hit those levels again.

I've lived in the area since the early 80s. It used to be more colorful, for sure, and it has improved dramatically over time. Visible sidewalk loitering and property crimes to parked cars seemed to dissipate in the early 90s. I have never felt threatened in any way, and I have always lived north of 86th St, though south of 96th. There used to be many vacant or underutilized lots that began to get filled in in the 80s with condos and market rate rental buildings. I think the gentrification to the area has moved far enough along to avoid slipping to the environment of the 70s. As an example, the condo owners in my area have organized to defend against any potential negative developments over time, and to clean up crime, dating back 15 years. Don't ignore the power of homeowners to defend their investment, and that investment has been substantial over the last 25 years.

I lived on Riverside in the 70's until October and never walked on Riverside in the winter at night--and never when it was a wind chamber. WEA has more action but is still peaceful why tempt anything? I'm a woman who lived in Manhattan since 76.

My mother used to say, before NY was the safest big city, that I knew the "crime streets" all the places to avoid so she never worried about me

PMG Riverside has a park with many hiding places. You never know what some crazy will do. It's prudence not perceiving crime where there isn't any.

In spring summer and fall since the park became a popular place to hang it's different. I never thought "I don't walk down Riverside at night. It's going to bring down my property value."

I did think housing prices were insane so I cashed out. But I will continue to be on Riverside at night aside from winter

I have been in Riverside Park on the water part after midnight often in summer. But summer and winter are very different on Riverside

I've never advocated walking RSD at night. I certainly don't recommend Riverside Park long after sunset. While I personally have walked alone in the park late at night to the wee hours of the morning in the summer, and enjoyed it immensely, I wouldn't recommend it for the POTENTIAL risk. But accessing WEA or broadway is not difficult so there is no reason to discount a RSD address for safety reasons. Heck, there are a lot of dog walkers in the area that 'linger' in the area on a nightly basis to no negative effect. There is very little crime on the entire UWS, including this area.

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We live and park a car of RSD in the 100's and have never had a problem...at night or during the day. One thing to note is that RSD and Broadway are quite close together above 107th street... So there is the sense of being less isolated on RSD above those streets. 110 is especially close (and vibrant) because of the subway and 24 hour commerce.
On the other hand, we were nearly mugged on WEA (in low 100's) a few years ago at night.
Much of this is anecdotal. I agree with all of those who say 'show me the data.'

The good far outweighs the bad on RSD. The winter is a little bleak (and windy) and I would suggest not walking down the street simply because it's cold...not because it's dangerous. but the spring, summer and fall are just amazing. I can understand your wanting to walk down Broadway over RSD but i don't get WEA. I've never felt like WEA ave is any safer than any other quiet street. I have kids and we love being on RSD. We're above 110th so we've knocked off one more long block to get to Broadway. UWSMOM -You're totally entitled to your opinion but I'm wondering if you don't also have a different agenda.

not trying to be completely facetious but having lived in this general area i.e. the wind tunnel, i would think that safety is not an issue in the winter because it is far too cold to be laying in wait to ambush some poor person.

Yes, the Hudson Hawk is a vicious creature... any lying in wait action on RSD in the winter would require nothing short of K2-worthy accoutrements.

Yes - my agenda is to keep everyone off of RSD. LOL.

How about I was walking on the street in the dark and was surprised by how secluded it was. I did not have a problem at all with WEA. I did, however, suggest that the streets between RSD and Bdwy or RSD and WEA might also be quieter than usual.

To each his own :)

sorry grunty - just re-read what you wrote about WEA... there was significantly more traffic and more people on WEA than on RSD. that was the difference for me.

Well RSD feels more isolated than WEA because it IS--the park can certainly take on an ominous note once the sun goes down... Plus the narrow, one-way, stop-signed Drive is decidedly less trafficky than WEA... So yes, I can definitely understand your qualms. That said, it's still a glorious part of NYC, at least dayside.

I agree Squid - it's really lovely.

uwsmom, you may be right in this case. check out this woman's ordeal:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/nyregion/thecity/01miss.html?hp

she may have been living in riverside park, no less. it gives me the chills.

from the NYTimes article:

According to police reports, Ms. Upp spent a lot of time in places like Riverside Drive, “where if you’re in running gear, no one’s going to look at you twice,” she said. When she revisited Riverside Drive after leaving the hospital, Ms. Upp said, “it seemed to make sense to me. Not only is it one of my favorite places, but there’s something soothing about the sound of water and just not feeling trapped in the concrete jungle.”

all that lingering on RSD and she survived. She actually loves RSD! it is heart-warming, really.

I can't decide if this frightens me or gives me warm fuzzies ;)

I'll need to sleep on it i think ...

we're heading over to the frightful RSD tomorrow. wish me luck :O

Again, I warn that we were nearly mugged on WEA (105th) a few years ago, and have never "felt afraid" or had reason to be uncomfortable living on Riverside (in the higher 100's) at night (or day). We did feel less secure when visiting friends on RSD in the high 90's and low 100's -- because the walk to the subway or to Broadway at night was longer, and thus the stretch of RSD at those points -- also down a hill, felt much more isolated -- particularly walking up side streets between RSD and WEA.

Again, I say at night go to broadway if you are traveling north or south on foot. wea between 96th and 106th is just a bit dodgy late at night.

i avoid wea between 96th and 106th out of laziness, not safety concerns. it's really steep, especially with 40lbs of kids in the double stroller.

uwsmom, what's your plan for schools? we absolutely love the area (particularly between 105th-116th), but wouldn't buy there unless we knew for sure we could easily afford, and get our kids into, private school (which we can't).

I feel safer up here than I do in many other parts of the city after dark. The Financial District is a Ghost Town and wandering anywhere in NYC late at night is not the smartest idea in isolated areas. The park is glorious and in summer fine until 10 at night or so--of course there is no magical hour when muggers go to work for the day so comon sense is a NY'ers best gauge :-)

I lived on 119th & rsd for 6 years so quiet I could sleep with windows open Columbia u patrols the area around the college always felt very safe but remote friends said I lived in Vermont.

Great area. But rats are a problem. A casual visitor wouldn't notice. but people who live there will tell you.

Rats? Huh...I thought all the rats were hangin' out here in north BPC!!! Glad to know they are spreading the wealth to other hoods!(I am seeing more rats this year than ever!)

I've been told the rats who lived in the 96th St subway station have been disturbed and spread out. Haven't seen any though. I also feel creepy about the dark and quiet on Riverside -- maybe that's why we're city people!