Open House Today 1:30-4:00pm - High Floor Corner 1 Bedroom - 407 Park Avenue South #18B

of course - bansalpr "adds to the discussion" because he AGREES (unhinged or emphasis?) with you. is it not adding to the discussion when it doesn't agree with your view?

you seem to refer to the "ad hominem" link on a few posts. ask yourself why it has to come to that so many times. in addition - you use this argument to defend yourself from the fictitious "attacks" yet a few lines earlier you call me unhinged to try and discredit me. how does that make you any different than what you are accusing burkhardt of being? when several posts start calling me paranoid, delusional, etc., etc., i will have to consider if they have point.

The fact that anyone would think the posting of comps is an attack on
the seller's price probably itself reflects their view of the seller's
price...

bansalpr - you seem reasonable...but once you realize that you can't convince a brick wall of your side of an argument (or anything for that matter) if you keep yelling at the brick wall some might say you ARE crazy. and others would find it really entertaining to watch you yelling at that wall. that is my point.

the fact that whathappened posted comps again and PAS responded to him the same way he did before (and would probably respond the same way again and again) proves this point:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Wow, this thread is like watching a slo-mo train wreck.

sniper,
I am sorry about the unhinged comment. I try to refrain from calling people names in a discussion. That comment was over the line. We are all sane, rational people who have some differences of opinion.

People often launch ad hoinem attacks when they have trouble discrediting the other person's argument.

Right, as many times as whathappened posts those comps, without my caveats, I will add my caveats. I do not think that posting comps is an attack. Not posting full comps, which is what he has done for a second time, even after I corrected him the first time, is not fair to the seller. Not allowing a seller to respond is also unfair.

I never told bansalpr to take the floor because I thought he agreed with me. I thought his line of reasoning about price sensitivity versus maintenance costs was an interesting point that had never been brought up in any previous discussions.

KISS - is it because i am insane, delusional and paranoid? is it? is it!? who said that?

So sniper, now you're trying to destroy the thread by posting the same thing over and over again? Why? If you think this discussion is no longer useful, you don't have to participate.

oh god...this thread was destroyed long ago and has begged for a mercy kill.
posting 4 times was a technical glitch but now that i see it, i realize that it gives the statement a better effect.

Just for the record I have never contacted Mr.407 about representing his property.

I was not telling you how to price your shares, just giving an opinion based on a forum thread, to what I feel their value are. Just my two cents.

Do you really think 2004-05 pricing is ridiculous? We are getting close. If sales volume does not pick up this spring/summer, come winter 2009/2010 we could start to see some real price reductions.

As Bill Gross said a few months back, "Today we have to think the unthinkable".

Ok, technical glitch. I thought I had finally driven you over the edge. ;-) Well, I still want to hear more about the idea that a lower price/higher maint&deduction exposes you to less risk in the current market. I never thought of that before but it makes sense.

An old story. In 1986, the Scorpions have just finished a show in Hanover and need to get to their tour bus -- but need to run a phalanx of rabid, scraggle-haired, acid-washed-jeaned fans in order to get there. Klaus Meine turns to Rudolf Schenker and says…

he says....

HERE I AM, ROCK ME LIKE A HURRICANE!

Who is Bill Gross? John Maynard Keynes said: "In the long run, we're all dead."

Well, Mr. Burkhardt, you kind of made overtures on this board about representing my property when I have tried to be clear that I was not looking for broker representation. Brokers never seem to be able to accept the word "no". This inability to hear the word "no" would explain all the mail I receive from brokers.

I think your figures for my apartment were ridiculous, yes. If we get there, I will be looking at some serious cuts on my target properties. Your ideas about price translate directly to a share price, of course.

People are free to add their two cents as I am free to add mine. I believe in free speech. Some people have suggested I delete some posts but I let all of the posts stand and argue my side.

Ok Jerkstore, please finish the story or we will have to finish it for you. Does Burkhardt's phrase: "Today we have to think the unthinkable." work?

Bill Gross is the "world's most prominent bond investor."
net worth over $1 billion

I want to extend a warm thank you to bansalpr who pointed out that in a market with greater price pressure, as we are in now, an apartment that has a lower price and higher maintenance exposes a buyer to less price risk because more of the risk is hidden in the relatively fixed maintenance costs.

I think this argument is absolutely brilliant. Thanks bansalpr. This one piece of new information has made all of these posts worthwhile.

As for Bill Gross, I could care less about him. How can a billionaire sit around worrying that the "unthinkable" will happen? Is he going to be reduced to a half a billionaire? What a joke.

the idea of mainetance vs price goes like this. Each 500 $/month of extra maintenance is worth 100k in house price. If an apartment is priced at 400k with 1000$/month maintenace, i should be indifferent in paying 300k with 1500$/month maintenance. 407PAS maintenace is high by around 600$/month compared to other well maintained bldg's, so should pay 120k less for this apartment compared to others.But in a downward market a 300k apt will lose less than a 400k apartment, so i should favor high maintenance apartment. If prices go down by 20% in next 3 yrs, i will save 20k in equity by investing in high maintenane apartment but my monthly cost wll be the same as 400k apartment.

yr welcome 407PAS.

you are too much. why should anyone care what a dead economist thinks?
i guess it only matters if you or someone who agrees with you brings it the discussion.
it is so transparent.

now you will keep pushing this "absolutely brilliant" idea by bansalpr that - SHOCKER! - supports YOU. good luck using that answer in negotiating with a buyer that wants to pay a lower price.

bansalpr/407pas: follie a deux, anyone? High maintenance is not a good thing, especially for cash buyers and retirees. And don't think for a second that maintenance is a fixed cost- it is bound to increase, especially after a few years of being stable. By contrast, a 30-year fixed mortgage is, um, fixed. I wouldn't touch a building with high maintenance unless the apartment itself is an unbelievable steal.

hejiranyc, don't forget, markets are efficient. there is a reason why apartments in 407PAS are cheap and the reason is maintenance. i am giving you a tool and logic to analyze the trade off between price and maintenance..you can disagree with my logic but your arguement of 30 yr fixed mortgage is not even a valid factor in my claculation. buyers should hedge themselves for any market downturn by investing in low price properties. High maintenance properties have low downside and low upside. guess what, the period of upside is gone, so hedge yourself for downside if you are in the market for an apartment for reasons beyond price appreciation.

Wow bansalpr, I am impressed, your argument makes a lot of sense. I knew they would start thinking we're the same person, but, well, we're not. Our writing styles are so different I don't know how anybody could think we were the same poster.

Right, markets are efficient, absolutely. Did you ever hear that old economist's joke? There was an economics professor who was walking down the street with two students. He was not a bright professor so he was trying to convince his students that markets were inefficient. He saw a ten dollar bill on the ground, picked it up, and said to his students, "Look, markets are inefficient, they did not allocate this ten dollars.", at which point, both students grabbed for the bill.

bansalpr, yes, you are giving me a tool to analyze the trade off between price and maintenance. I have grappled with this issue for a long time. I said maintenance costs are relatively fixed, not that they were fixed. As I mentioned before, we did refinance the building's mortgage last year for a large savings, which we can use to hold the line on maintenance increases. There are no guarantees, of course, not in any building in the city.

bansalpr,

your argument in favor of high maintenance is absurd. a 400k apartment will decline more than a 300k apartment in a bear market? well, then it should follow that a 400k apartment will increase more than 300k apartment in a bull market. if you think housing prices are going down, why in hell would you be buying an apartment anyway?

I slept through a lot of early morning economics lectures but I believe Keynesian thought is still the basis of a lot of modern economics. Forgive me if I am mistaken.

wow. i take it all back! PAS must be a super-cool dude. he slept through his economics classes!!!

happy renter, you stated the obvious. I said it in my post (High maintenance properties have low downside and low upside and....hedge yourself for downside if you are in the market for an apartment for reasons beyond price appreciation.)

you dont buy apartment because it will go up in value all the time..look at where we are because of that thinking...buying apartment is a lifestyle choice not a gamble...

i am not related to 407PAS , but i live in the same bldg. i did ample research before buying an apartment in this bldg and high maintenance was a positive factor in my decesion making.time to get rid of old thinking patterns and look at the apartment buying in terms of pure math..crunch some numbers

Sometimes you buy the apartment because it gets a lot of sunlight, has a south facing balcony that is good for growing plants, has two exposures that provides cross-ventilation so you don't need as much air conditioning, and has a kitchen with a window, so that your wife, who cooks every night, does not suffocate.

So, I guess I am a poor investor who did not buy the correct apartment for the upside, but, quite unbelievably, I'm holding a property that is ok on the downside. I am amazed.

Well, hold on a second, I have to pick myself up off of the floor. I don't know bansalpr, I swear. I'm sure they will attack us now as being in collusion, but, you know, your argument will have to stand or fall based on its own merits. I think the argument is worth having, because a lot of people are automatically turned off by high maintenance without looking at other factors, like you have done.

stop the presses!
now it makes some sense. bansalpr lives in the same building!!!! he is not telling us what a great price/deal etc. this is.
he is doing exactly what i said about 50 posts ago - working his OWN motive, which is to protect his investment that is in the same building!!!!!

i love it. i was starting to lose interest in this boring discussion but this ratchets it up again. that is great. now your "absolutely brilliant" idea has to be discredited. you are not an unbiased source.

lol this is hilarious. your apartment is doing ok on the downside? according to what crystal ball? YOUR APARTMENT HASN"T SOLD. you have absolutely no idea what it will sell for, the most recent comp in your line shows significant price depreciation, and you claim to be 'price competitive' with other apartments that aren't selling. what in the world makes you think the apartment is doing well in a downturn?

bansalpr - the problem is that the maintenance is high for a reason - badly run building, bad choices on amenities or worse. Add to that the fact that maintenance will only go up and you are buying something that you will have a very, very hard time selling in the future. The maintenance is not tax deductable, while the mortgage interest is, as well.

i am unbiased, i dont have the power to increase or decrease the prices in the bldg.

Well, you know, if people run the numbers on an apartment in my building, do their own analysis, and see that it is a good deal, they are free to buy there. They put their money down based on the results of their analysis. I know sniper thinks this guy is just trying to protect his investment, but, like I said, the maintenance argument should stand or fall on his own, as an abstract concept that does or does not make sense.

waverly, maintenance is tax deductible for the amount of mortgage held by the bldg. you are right that high maintenance properties have a hard time selling because of various reasons ( stigma, misinformation and sometimes bad management)

i suppose you do not have the power to move real estate markets but like two guys who root for the same team, like the same music or bought the same crappy model of car you have a vested interest when talking about it. you are not an independent source here.

as far as "getting rid of old thinking patterns" i suggest you pick one other than trying to tout that higher maintenance is a benefit. i would love to hear that one used as a negotiating tactic. good luck.

"bansalpr - the problem is that the maintenance is high for a reason - badly run building, bad choices on amenities or worse. Add to that the fact that maintenance will only go up and you are buying something that you will have a very, very hard time selling in the future. The maintenance is not tax deductable, while the mortgage interest is, as well."

Actually, the building is a well-run, full service coop. The building had a high mortgage from back in the late 80s. Like I have said twenty times, we refinanced and saved a lot of money. Maintenance numbers on other buildings in the city will also go up while we may remain steady for a while. You are blowing this out of proportion.

"The maintenance is not tax deductable, while the mortgage interest is, as well.""

My god, here I go again. The maintenance is approximately 65% tax deductible. The maintenance includes real estate taxes and mortgage interest, both of which are tax deductible.

happyrenter,
Catch up on the argument of a "low priced/high maint/high deduct" apartment versus a "higher price/lower maint&lower deduct" place.

"the most recent comp in your line shows significant price depreciation, and you claim to be 'price competitive' with other apartments that aren't selling. what in the world makes you think the apartment is doing well in a downturn?"

Which comp is that? Not 14B again, which I have talked about. Which comp are you talking about? I am priced competitively with apartments that are on the market, yes. I'm not looking at a huge decline, so I'm doing ok.

407pas,
i'm still curious: what is it that makes you think your apartment is holding up well in the downturn?

I have to say that I never asked bansalpr to help me out here. I have been willing to fight my fight alone, for how ever long it takes. I don't know bansalpr. I try to defend my property and my building against some pretty nasty attacks, that is all. I have been defending myself for months. People on here know that.

As my wife just wrote to me, with regards to the abuse unleashed against me on this thread:

" This is ridiculous – every one should look at it in terms of monthly costs and that’s the end of it. There are plenty of 625 sq ft bedroom apartments in buildings not better than us that have higher monthly costs than us. Why don’t they go and beat them all up? That’s probably 50 listings or so."

"My god, here I go again. The maintenance is approximately 65% tax deductible. The maintenance includes real estate taxes and mortgage interest, both of which are tax deductible."

I know this pas407, but it still extremely high and will only go up....and as it goes up the tax deductible % will go down.

"I know this pas407, but it still extremely high and will only go up....and as it goes up the tax deductible % will go down. "

Actually, everyone's costs will go up. Ok? Why don't you keep repeating that mantra? Don't single me out to make it look like my building is the only building that faces upward cost pressure in this city.

This year it looks like our real estate taxes went up a little and our mortgage interest went down a little, so it appears to be a wash that will hold the 65%, but I do not have the actual numbers for 2009 yet.

And, our maintenance did not increase in 2009.It also did not increase during the last three years.

"I am priced competitively with apartments that are on the market". Which is why nothing is selling because the apts. are overpriced. With the stock market down 45% from its peak, unemployment in the city approaching 10%, how could you possibly even think that Manhattan apartments should only be down 5-10% from peak? To me, and I'm in the market as a buyer, if we all know that the goods are going to be discounted next week or next month, why offer full price?

I should also point out that our building is completely occupied. You don't have to like the place but people live there. It is not an empty building in the middle of Manhattan. I looked at some sponsor apartments last weekend that were formerly rent stabilized. Horrendous condition, $200k+ worth of renovations, pretty high maintenance, and how many vacant units are in that building? Many, I fear. Things can be a lot worse.

"To me, and I'm in the market as a buyer, if we all know that the goods are going to be discounted next week or next month, why offer full price?"

Offer what you you think an apartment is worth based on what you have seen in the marketplace. Be a player in the game.

So the solution is simple: bansal and 407pas will sell their apartments to each other, since they believe so strongly in the fundamentals of the building and they believe so strongly that it has held its bubble pricing. Unfortunately the rest of us among the unenlightened masses, who fail to grasp the wonderful benefits of exhorbitantly high maintenance fees, will miss out on this immense upside buying opportunity.

you love the "attacks." listen to you:

"defend my property against nasty attacks"

hahahahaha. you think you're friggin' john wayne and the injuns are coming. defending yourself against the windmills is part of who you are. you need them more than they need you. you leave so much low hanging fruit that it is getting to be not fun anymore.

sniper,
You're mixing so many metaphors and sayings that you've stopped making any sense. You don't defend against windmills, you tilt at windmills. The saying to "tilt at windmills" means to attack imaginary foes. I have plenty of real foes, they keep posting on this board. You are naive to think that people have not slammed me pretty hard. I suppose your free cookies protected you from abuse when you sold FSBO.

Everybody should read what Bill Gross has to say here
http://www.pimco.com/TopNav/Home/Default.htm

He runs the BIGGEST bond fund in the world
PIMCO

the other supersmart guy there is Paul McCulley

My price has been reduced to take into account the current market conditions and it not a bubble price.

"Unfortunately the rest of us among the unenlightened masses, who fail to grasp the wonderful benefits of exorbitantly high maintenance fees, will miss out on this immense upside buying opportunity."

Approximately 65% of that exorbitant maintenance is also tax deductible. That is a large tax break for a buyer. Crunch some numbers and look at some other buildings before passing judgement on my building.

to say the least, Bill Gross has been grossly wrong last year. This year, if not for the govt buying the treasuries he will be tasting the dust.

You know, I hear you people saying it is bad that someone else is posting from my building, but, you know what, it happens here all the time on this board. It is called "just another data point". I see a couple people from the same building defend their buildings in other posts. bansalpr decided for his own reasons to buy in. Let him tell us his number crunching arguments and you can question them or accept them, whatever you want to do.

No, you don't understand rmrmets and happyrenter. The market crash
doesn't impact 407PAS's apartment. He has a south-facing 625 sf unit
on the NE corner of 28th and park avenue south that is on the 18th floor.
There are no other apartments on the market at his price point that has
all of these "features".

And what about those 07-08 peak-level comps that are below his price point
you ask? Well, those aren't on the 18th floor - they're too low down or too high
up or don't have a breeze or they aren't configured so your wife can do a Kabuki
dance in the kitchen.

Ah, whathappened back for another shot at me. Your comments always come across as particularly nasty.

Post a comp for god's shake and we'll have something to talk about.

For God's sake, post a comp for god's sake.

whathappened,
I think you should buy that first floor three bedroom apartment outside of the Midtown Tunnel. You're going to love it in that apartment. It has a killer price per square foot. I am sorry that you will never get a night's sleep. Take some sleeping pills.

407PAS --> this thread reminds me of the "highest and best at the majestic" where Rachel got kicked pretty badly.

everyone here is telling you what you need to get the apt sold: cut the price 20% or so and hope to sell for 380k. and no, i won't be buying it - so not talking my own book here.

AnonMan2002,
I'm not a broker like Rachel. You missed the part where Burkhardt the broker got kicked pretty hard. Read back a ways. Something tells me that you don't have the patience to read all the text here and can only keep posting these "slash your price quotes", which get old, real fast. Yawn.

And leave my wife out of these discussions, attack me all you want. Have a little respect. I gave you the real reasons why I bought the apartment and you belittle them. That's fine, I hope you all live in miserable, dank basement apartments which you bought at an incredible price that puts my price to shame.

a VERY slow-mo train wreck.

407pas,

come off it, do you even believe the stuff you are saying? 14B doesn't count because of mysterious circumstances you can't mention? i assume that means the people needed to sell. so what? did they not take the highest price they could get? that's the most recent comp regardless of the mysterious, unstated circumstances you allude to.

but again, you insist that your apartment is doing well in the downturn because the price that you have slapped on it doesn't represent a big decline. why not ask $1 million for it and claim that it's value is going up! the price you want for the apartment is not relevant to the actual value of the apartment.

happyrenter,
You missed this comp from my previous post:

"#8B sold for $515k in July, a much lower floor than mine, and one that does not get as much light. "

Ok, so you ARE harping on 14B and its sale. Well, you are being cruel. Sales take place for personal reasons at much lower prices than could be fetched on the open market. It happens. That's all I am going to say because I do not want to hurt other people.

You can doubt me if you like, but I have been honest in everything I have posted to this board. You don't have to like my price. That is your right. You have thousands of other listings you could hurl abuse at, but you know, I'm an easy target.

"but again, you insist that your apartment is doing well in the downturn because the price that you have slapped on it doesn't represent a big decline."

My price has come down to $489k from $539k, so I have been realistic with my pricing. A competitor in the building started at $599k and soon realized the folly of that move. Someone else is out there at $569k, I believe.

My point about doing well in the downturn is a forward looking comment based on price pressure and the fact that my price is relatively lower than other units on the market based on the high main/high deduct.

Someone else is at $499k, and I am the lowest priced one bedroom in my building, at $489k.

Those are the facts.

Stay strong PAS! HR is just very unhappy that she didn't make first team on Harvard's eights.

When/where did I get kicked on this thread? "Every time I try and leave, you drag me back in".
I made overtures? hmmm. I simply suggested(like others) a broker could possibly procure a quicker sale for you. I'm not that broker :)

I think I have been nothing but polite to you, but you have been quite rude with me. You don't know me, have never even met or spoken with me, yet you question my integrity. Based on what? I just am of the opinion your apartment is priced wrong and I backed it up with historical price data from your building.

I could be absolutely wrong and prices don't revert to 2004-05, but if they do we have a record of those prices, that is what I based my # on. I wish you the best with the sale of your apartment, I wish no ill fortune on anyone. If you did know me, you would know this about me.

But this is a forum about real estate and my words/analysis are about your apartment, not you.

Why is this so complicated? I'm your target buyer. $350,000 makes the tax-adjusted rent vs own a wash for me at $2700/mo. Also, 625 sq ft X $600/sq ft (what any buyer with a brain knows is coming) = $375,000 minus $25,000 for the high maint. And spare the bitter renter comments -- I already own a great studio outright but will buy something bigger when sellers start getting real. In the meanwhile, you're just chasing the market down.

West34,
Have a nice long wait in that small studio because you will not be buying my one bedroom with reasoning like that. I doubt you will be buying any other one bedroom either. Feeling a little cramped?

Ah, Mr. Burkhardt, I have tried to be polite to you but the way you name an absurdly low sale price is an insult, no matter how you cut it. Send me a few of your listings and I will do the same to you as you have done to me. Rental/Sale, doesn't matter.

At one point, you said something like, you would take .05%, raise my price to $499k for the buyer boys, and we could try to get something going. That sure sounded like an overture to me.

I am of the opinion that your reasoning is all wrong so let's let it go at that.

Time will tell regarding price. Lehman and Bear going away sounded absurd less than 6 months ago...

Mr. Burkhardt and I agree, time will tell all.

407PAS - i suggest you let this thread die.
for your own sake...

407PAS, you might not want to use a broker to sell your apartment but you might consider hiring a public relations person to handle the comments. Seems like it's easy to slide down a slippery slope once you start this process.

"You can doubt me if you like, but I have been honest in everything I have posted to this board."

Except about the price you paid & the year you bought not being relevant. I predict a short sale within 9 months.

If there was ever a thread to sign off on, this may be it. I wish you all the best of luck.

I will be back on "board" in September, it will be interesting to take a big break and see where we're at after the summer.

Best wishes,

Keith

www.nycrentrant.blogspot.com
www.theburkhardtgroup.com

The price I paid does not matter and the year I bought does not matter.

The fair market price of the asset matters, no matter what you people say.

I don't need a PR hack. Look happens to slick brokers with their slick copy when they post on here. They get ground up into hamburger.

Let people read all the opinions and make up their own minds.
I have talked to people who understand the kind of nonsense that gets posted here. There are two sides to every story.

Sticky,
There will be no short sale. More nasty cheap talk from you people.

Well, burkhardt, in September you'll get to check back and see if 407 PAS 18B has sold, and if so at what price. Unlike other internet train wrecks, we'll get to see how this one works out in reality.

bansalpr, you're reasoning erroneously assumes that when the market falls, high and low maintenance apartments will fall by the same percentage. In fact, high-maintenance apartments should experience a greater percentage decline. Here's why: suppose an apartment has total costs of $3500/month. And, suppose that could be split up as either $1K maint and $500K purchase price or $1500K maint and $400K purchase price. Suppose the amount people are willing to pay per month for the apartment drops 20%, from $3500 to $2800/month. Assuming $500/mo = $100K purchase price and maintenance stays the same, this should lead to a decline in $140k for each property, so the apartment with $1K maintenance now costs $360k and the apartment with $1500 maintenance now costs $260K. The dollar decline in price should be the same (since that is what is required to keep total monthlies the market will bear for a space independent of how the monthly amount is split up into maintenance/mortgage/other). And, as a result, the percentage decline for the higher-maintenace apartment should be lower.

Another way to think about this is that buying an apartment with higher maintenance is like using more leverage (since you pay less now but have greater costs to support your ownership). When the price of assets move, leverage magnifies percentage movements (producing higher-percentage gains and higher-percentage losses).

As a heretofore silent bystander, I just have to ask: Should the owner of this apartment perhaps consider that the potential buyer for this apartment might be reading this thread? And that perhaps said buyer will perceive this owner to be rather, umm...feisty? And perhaps will say to him or herself, "Looks like a nice apartment, but that owner will be hard to deal with...I can always find a different apartment."

I mean no disrespect here, but I do think, 470PAS, that you've let them get you wound up a bit. You perceive attacks where it wasn't clear that an attack was intended. But in either case, it's beside the point; by punching back, you've become a pugilist. And I've got to believe there are buyers out there who don't want to buy from pugilists. In this market, it might make sense not to needlessly alienate any buyer, since they seem to be in short supply.

I'm sure this post will get me labelled a sideline-sitting, basement-dwelling, catching-a-falling-knife bitter market-timing owner! (Did I get all the standard streeteasy epithets in there?)

david10003, you don't have to live with the person you buy your house from.

I'd buy an apartment from rufus if I liked the place enough.

junkman_r_u_serious: What, and live in Chicago?

I think by this time in the thread, potential buyers would see that StreetEasy posters are people who can only disparage properties, will not pay or even suggest a fair price for a listing, and can only scream for drastic price cuts. The evidence is all over this thread and on about another hundred threads on this site. People can make up their own minds after reading the posts here as to what is really going on.

Contrary to your opinion, david10003, I treat my potential buyers with dignity and respect. They ask for information and I provide it promptly. The information in my listing is accurate, from the square footage numbers to the maintenance information. My room dimensions are on the plan and I provide photographs of every room and the balcony.

If people want to negotiate, they should bid what they think the property is worth, based on what they have seen on the market, and we can discuss it. I am not a pugilist but I have felt compelled to defend myself against a lot of nasty comments made on this thread.

Here is an example:

"Well, burkhardt, in September you'll get to check back and see if 407 PAS 18B has sold, and if so at what price. Unlike other internet train wrecks, we'll get to see how this one works out in reality."

Do you want me to post something nice and cheery in response to this kind of comment which tries to characterize my simple sale as a train wreck? These comments are as mean-spirited as anything I have posted.

Perhaps I should mention that I am relieved to hear that I will not have to receive one more pitch from Burkhardt about his new real estate model, something he has been touting for months and something that has no chance of success in the market. The real estate industry does not change.

Junkman, I hear you. I would too, providing it was a great, screaming deal, or was in some other way unique or "perfect" for me. But in a market where there are record numbers of apartments available, it's unlikely that someone's going to fall in love with just one. So why turn someone off when they feel they have plenty of other choices. Anyway, I've said enough, no need for me to belabor my point.

david10003,
Are you actually going out there and looking at properties and contemplating a purchase or are in the "kick the owner" mode of most of these posters? Real buyers probably want to go out and buy an apartment. With a huge supply, they should be out there beating the pavement and trying to cut deals.

By the way, there are no perfect apartments in all of New York, so you might as well move out of town if you're waiting for that pefect place to come on the market. I have looked at hundreds and hundreds of listings and there are always trade offs with every single listing.

Sorry, perfect place...

wow. this thread is on fire. not sure why.

it is on fire because the train cars keep piling up. he just doesn't know how to stop. always has to have the last word even at his own detriment.

this is like watching the unraveling of sarah palin - you have to watch. you cringe and get embarrassed for her with every word. you start feeling sorry for her and those who support her but she is in a hole and refuses to stop digging so you just keep watching while covering you eyes as she repeats all her talking points and seals her own fate..."he palled around with terrorists...the maintenance is 65% deductible," etc.

it must be exhausting.

junkman, exactly: I would buy an apt from umm, umm, Agent Rachel if I thought it was the right trade. If you want a friend, get a dog. RE is a business transaction, nothing more, nothing less.

Wait, sniper is fighting me for the last word, I see it now. Comparing me to Sarah Palin is another low blow, but I have come to expect this from sniper. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why sniper has turned against me so. I tried to help him with his listing, gave him encouragement when he found a buyer, made suggestions on what to look for when buying a suburban home in terms of what systems could go wrong, etc etc. Yet, now, I'm just getting verbally punched and slapped around by sniper. Very strange. I will be sure not to offer any advice to anyone on this board every again. No good deed goes unpunished.

patient09
Yep, if someone likes the place, and the terms, they should buy, regardless of the seller. It just does not matter. Absolutely, real estate is a business transaction. There can be humanity in our business transactions. We can treat each other with respect when we buy and sell. Maybe this is impossible for New York City, in this current climate. It would be nice to find a buyer who is efficient, can apply for a mortgage, fill out a board package, and pass a board interview.

Why can't we end these threads like in baseball, where the home team bats last. Is that not true? Since I started this thread, why can't I have the last post? This actually seems like a fair policy to me.

"I will be sure not to offer any advice to anyone on this board every again."

you say it but you don't mean it. no, you mean it...but you can't stick to it. we all know that. you have become the scorpion.
it is just your nature so we won't hold it against you when you surely offer your advice again to anyone who will listen....even if that someone is just you.

go ahead. make the last post. put it out of its misery.

I'll admit, I have not read every comment on this thread. So I'm sure that everything I'm about to say has been said before. But I just can't resist...

(1) $782 per square foot is high (based on $489k ask and 625 quoted sf). Especially since it's not a prime location.

(2) $2.64 psf in monthly maintenance is ABSURD (based on $1655 maintenance and 625 sqf). What services could they possibly offer to justify that price? I'd want to get a personal driver with a luxury car to drive me around anytime day or night to justify $2.64 per square foot in monthly maintenance.

(3) I'd bet $100 that you can't sell that apartment within 12 months in an arm's length transaction to a 3rd party buyer for more than $430k (and without any gimmicks--like paying 20 years worth of maintenance for the buyer). Frankly, I think it's worth a lot less given the maintenance but I can't discount entirely the possibility of you finding one idiot to bite.

I was ready to try to sum up this thread with something but this guy comes along and posts something like this, thereby ruining my attempt to draw this to a conclusion.

Sniper, tell him about the tax deduction. Wait, he didn't mention it, what a surprise. I'll do it, stand back.

Fine, on we go. I take back what I said about not posting. Free speech. Free market economy. Deal with it.

1) 65% tax deductibility, you could at least mention that if you are going to slam me in this way.

2) My square footage number is accurate and comes from the coop offering plan. Brokers lie in order to lower their price per square foot, as has been pointed here numerous times.

3) Lots of buildings in the city have high maintenance. Ever look at places in the Rockefeller apartments? We see tons of listings with "high" maintenance. We have not had an increase in three years, have no increase in 2009, and have refinanced the building's mortgage, saving money we can use to hold maintenance steady.

3) My price has been lowered to take into account the higher maintenance costs. We see lots of apartments at over $600k with $1000 maintenance. This apartment represents a trade off, one that allows someone to buy with a smaller down payment than usually required.

4) I am not a betting man. I don't give a damn what you think it is worth. I will let the market decide what it is worth, not a bunch of people posting on StreetEasy, most of whom have no intentions of buying any property and can only criticize every listing they see as being too expensive.

Mine is the lowest priced one bedroom for sale in the building and I have lowered my price from an initial ask of $539k in response to the market. More information about the actual apartment can be found here:

http://web.me.com/mac.hive/407PAS/18B.html

South and East views. Lots of light and air. High floor. Corner. Outdoor space. Windows in all rooms. Roof deck. Storage room. Bicycle storage. Directly above the subway. Full service 24 hour doorman building.

OK this is now my favorite thread ever

don't blame "this guy."
you could have brought this to a close a LONG time ago, scorpion...wait a minute. no, you couldn't. it is not your nature.
you are bringing nothing new to the table. please stop trumpeting the party talking points, sarah. come up with something new.

(80's man - i just bust out laughing from that comment. i know - isn't it great? it is like throwing rocks at a caged gorilla in a zoo)

The floor plan shows an interior space you can circumscribe with two close rectangles. One is 23x23 the other is 24x24. The apartment is between 529 and 576 feet. The estimate of 625 sq ft is based on a 25x25 rectangle which is absurd. I'll give it 575 sq feet x 700 = $403,000 as market clearing price if it gets chopped relatively quickly.

I meant "bounded" not "circumscribed". The overhang areas on the plan are 1' kitchen, 2' at the closet maybe a 3' feet at the balcony. The rest (majority) of the area lies within a 24x24 rectangle.

Bottom line. Still no offers at any price. Correct?

West 34 has the logic correct - the comp is what you can rent it for today, not what someone paid during the bubble. A year from now when this one-of-a-kind is still on the market and the $3500 fridge has been sold to pay the ridiculous maintenance fees, 407PAS will be saying, 'Man, shoulda listened to those smart people on Streeteasy'. 'Nuff said.