Open House Today 1:30-4:00pm - High Floor Corner 1 Bedroom - 407 Park Avenue South #18B

The length of time you decide to hold the apartment makes no difference as to the impact of the excessive maintenance. Even if you hold the apartment for 1 year, there are a stream of people who will buy it after you into perpetuity that will likely be stuck with above market maintenance. They will pay you less for the apartment than an apt with a normal maintenance (and the next person who buys the apt will pay less as well and so on and so on). Therefore, you have to consider the detriment to the apartment into perpetuity, and adjust your entrance and exit value accordingly.

bansalpr, perpetuity is forever.

i can only laugh at west34's arrogance. as an acturial consultant you have obviously no idea of the concept of duration. cost of mortgage cannot be added to the cost of maintenence to derive the home value. cost of maintenance is shared by future owners ( via mortgage on the bldg), whereas cost of mortgage on the unit is yours. any price appreciation due to reduction in building mortgage is shared by current and all future owners and not just the current owner. maintenance keeps the value of the asset intact and thus is shared by future owners. current owner can only pay for the maintenance for the duration of his stay in his calculations.perpetuity arguement does not work with maintenance as it will always result in perpetually lower prices for a house if there is zero real estate market appreciation.

We are now tied with "Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: West Side Edition" for MOST COMMENTED THREAD EVER!

west34th - there is a belief that bansalpr and 407PAS could be the same person...this came up about 285 posts ago. they both live in the same building and vigorously defend it. the only way we could disprove this is if bansalpr has an open house and sticky attends.

sniper, i dont know 407PAS. the only reason i am posting here is because i want to put forward my views on maintenance vs price arguement.

I'm moving to L.A. for good on Wednesday. I'll still haunt StreetEasy but won't be able to go on reconnaissance missions in Manhattan.

LOL! Oh yeah, he's the OTHER guy paying ridiculously high maintanance (and all his nonsense posts were full of jargony jibberish).

407PAS, it still hasn't sold... sorry buddy but i thinkz the boat is sailing away.... as are most NYC RE ...

It's been twenty years since I was junior financial analyst doing "valuations" of cash flow streams (and later I did other stuff, not that field), so I need to think through real estate valuation, but I am sure that bansalpr's comments reflect deep confusion and misunderstanding of the terms he is throwing around. "Jargony jibberish" is a perfect description of his posts. It's bizarre actually because it is combined with such a haughty attitude (remind you of anyone?). Most fundamentally, he seems to not understand that you can indeed value a perpetual stream of liabilities. It would only make sense to value each individual year of outyear maint. payments if there was some concrete, believable reason to believe they would terminate in year x, or start declining in year x....but that hardly seems a credible assumption for this building.

Is it just me or: does the behavior of residents of this builing raise the spector of RADON GAS or CREEPY TOXIC MOLD IN THE WALLS that might alter a person's behavior and analytical ability?(Oops..was that a personal attack....Sticky made me do it).

I repeat: this place will sell when the # of posts converge with the offer price.

The maint in this building is $2.62 a square foot. The average for Murray Hill is $1.42 http://www.thepinehurst.org/resources/ManhMaintWeb.pdf

Straight to 1,000!

According to West34th streets calculations, a haircut of $24,000 for every $100 of additional maint, and the apartment having an additional $750 in maint, the place should be priced $180,000 less than comps with average maint.

The moral of the story is "maintenance kills". A low price apartment with a high maintenance might be a great buy but it also may turn out to be a difficult sell.

PAS's enthusiasm for defending his position against brokers and for his high price started a thread he cannot stop. Since he's theoretically not around, let me remind you people that his maintenance is 65% tax deductible. LOL (Don't worry about paying high interest on your mortgage or high real estate taxes--they're tax deductible) If you retire and have a low income or if you have a high income and pay AMT, never mind, you won't benefit from a tax deduction.

yes, it has. and i love the fact that about 150 posts ago he thought he would come to back to his adoring public and "wrap it up with his thoughts"...NOT. it became much bigger than him but he could never see past admiring his own reflection.

I feel for the guy and think he's provided us a benefit by starting a valuation discussion useful to us all, but the fact is high maintenance is lethal in this market, especially with rents falling so aggressively.

For the sake of argument, and maybe it isn't so crazy, but suppose rent for a unit like this fell to say 2100, then the rent excess over maintenance would be only about 500$. Now, would it be worth 489,000$ to avoid paying that 500$ differential per month, which would also get you the capital appreciation benefit (uh....and depreciation risk).

In other words, how long could the price go for high main. cost apartments if market rents keep falling?..

jimstreeteasy, the price could go as low as $1. Imagine this apt being auctioned off in foreclosure with 2 years of back maint ($40K) payable to the co-op. Plus you still have to cover the $1650/mo going forward once you take possession. That puts the apt in a $220K hole relative to an unencumbered comp with avg maint (-$40K lien + -$180K vs. comps due to maint). This apt sold for $225K in '03 so if comp prices were fall anywhere near '03 levels you might witness the fabled $1 bid.

That's a worst-case scenario for certain but that's what it's like in the land of the $1 bid.

co-ops used to sell for $1 in return for back assessments and maintenance payments
maybe those times will return?

As I understand it, part of high maint. relates to a mortgage on the buidling/land (excuse my ignorance, rather new to this and don't know the nuances of the building finance situation). So when you buy for 1$ you are in effect buying an asset and taking on debt, so it's not "free" , so it makes sense that you might be able to buy for 1$ or some nominal sum. This apartment is already in the pyschological danger zone where someone wouldn't buy without a big haircut...geez, even now, the rent is within a thousand of the maint. level.

jimstreeteasy, the $1 is a nominal sum necessary to avoid lawsuits for fraudulent conveyance. A coop can't give away shares. There has to be some financial consideration. No, a $1 apartment is not necessarily cheap. Back in the 80's many $1 apartments and buildings couldn't be sold because the amount of money owned in liens and other encumberances (bringing the building up to code ot get a C of O, etc...) was greater than the future cash flow warranted. Also, from what I understand, it's not easy to get a mortgage on a foreclosed/auction property. In other words: you pay cash! You pay now! Or you go now!

Trying not to hijack the thread into a distressed property discussion but even the best of properties trade at sever discounts to comps when sold at auction because of the difficulty of financing. Real estate sales without the benefit of leverage are not pretty sights for sellers.

Lol..Now that 407PAS's apartment has been appriased around $1 by propective non buyers, its time to officially close the thread. The market has spoken.

I bet that PAS407 is reading this thread, and is just about ready to explode.

I don't know. $1 still seems a touch high. You only need $.01 to support the contract. I think I'd go up to about $.05 though.

There is a serious core to this discussion about the 1$ price, which is: what is the negative price impact of high maint. costs?

For the sake of argument, imagine an apartment where the RENT = MAINT. What would be the apartment mkt value? Why buy: 1) psychic benefit of being on "owner" ; 2) to ensure that RENT does not grow faster than MAINT; but I wonder what the history has been; my experience is that rents in Man. have grown very very modestly compared to apt prices, but I don't really know the figure for Maint. ; 3) to get capital appreciation (but that is risky also).

Suppose that the answer is :NOTHING or something very small like say 50,000. Then, suppose that RENT gets within a few hundred dollars of MAINT....shouldn't the price start collapsing? What about when MAINT = 2/3RENT like this case?.

The arguments we can read in this posts will be fitting for most of the 11,000+ offered apartments.

99.9% of them are still widely overpriced and therefore that number will soon hit 12,000+

In a declining market BUYERS are the leaders and the sellers play the reluctant followers.

Clearly, PAS will be forced to cut sharply his price - the earlier the better for him.
With cash in his hand he can join us sideliners and analyze coldhearted the unfolding desaster.

When you believe Spring 2009 is sloooow, wait for June-Aug. Summer 2009 will be murderous.

Maybe someone can find out why his maint is so high?
He claims that his co-op just refinanced the mortgage? Why is there such a high mortgage on that building?
Sounds like a highly leveraged LBO or are there just so few apmts in that building?

@ bansalpr
mattcab, your price equivalency arguement is full of weaknesses. you are totally forgetting about the duration of the investment. if you plan to stay in the aprtment for 5 yrs, every extra 100 dollars of maintenence should reduce the price by $6000 ( 12*100*5). with your arguement, i can sell you a property for 100k ( lets say), pay the 100 $ extra maintenance for you for a year and ask you to sell me the property back at 60k and make a profit of 40k in one year.

Simply, You are wrong.

There's another side to this maintenance conversation. What's going to happen as condos move upward and out of their abatement programs? Have fun with that thought.

There was this post at the bottom of p. 5 from bardamu

Familiar with this property. It was constructed in the late 80s, just as the market was peaking. Developer basically defaulted, bank owned half the units in the building, and it was a mess throughout the 90s. Building is saddled with huge mortgage that last I knew had a high interest rate -- hence the reason so much of the maintenance is tax deductible.

@ sniper
mattcab - interesting thoughts because earlier in this thread i think 407 and someone else who owns in his bldg. try to convince posters that because of the maintenance there should be a higher price on the apartment. also, adding two posts to the pile does make you part of the problem, not part of the solution - you realize that, no?

I assume you are in some sort of backward mirrorland with both of your sentences.

Could you leave the guy alone, already? This is an internet lynching, an electronic Kitty Genovese situation. Taking this much joy in another's misfortune is sick & disgusting.

@ jimstreeteasy
Mattcabb: If the maint. in this place is , for the sake of argument, roughly 600$ per month above the norm (and it might be even more above the norm), by your calc that means you should wack 240,000$ off the price, if I follow you. [It may not be true but some have said that in the late 80s you could get an apartment for nothing if you would agree to pay the maint.]

Jim- forget the price "set" by the current owner. I'm saying that a buyer should be indifferent between buying a place for $500,000 and $500K per month in maintenance (after tax deduction) and the same apartment at $600 per month for ... $100*12 / whatever after-tax interest rate I chose which I forget so lets say 3% = $1200/.03 = 40,000 ... $460,000

the $100* 12 reflects the difference between $500 and $600

dwell: I personally am not personalizing this (although not true with all). It's basically become a discussion about the effect of high maint. on price of an apartment.

dwell, financial analysis of real estate is not "internet lynching". You can complain about the character assassination going back and forth on both sides, fine, but it's ridiculous to tell people not to share their financial calculations on a real estate message board. I don't feel sorry for the owners and brokers who fear analysis and pray for the return of "buy with your heart, not your wallet". That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

But if someone wants to start a new thread to make this GENERIC...maybe thats a good idea

Now I've read all the discussion around bansalpr.

Amusing

I'd be perfectly happy for PAS407 if he gets a price he is happy with..tomorrow. This is about the general market, not about him..

Thank you, Jim. You're sensible, gracious & classy.

This thread is not about PAS although he seems to represent well the current thinking of NY sellers....

Basically PAS407 is one of hundred or thousands of sellers asking more than the SE concensus thinks will be achievable, but he put himself out for..debate...rather than just list for sale. Personally, I 'd like to see more of the other sellers step forward so we can see what they are thinking,particularly from the building I Lived in NYC eight years ago that is absurdly overpriced: 270 w 17th. Oh well, time will tell.

dwell: "report abuse Could you leave the guy alone, already? This is an internet lynching, an electronic Kitty Genovese situation. Taking this much joy in another's misfortune is sick & disgusting."

Your comment is sick and disgusting. To compare a spirited debate about real estate to murder (lynching) or rape-murder (Kitty Genovese) shows that you're a complete idiot. Seriously. Please think before you say something that insanely stupid.

@ Mattcab
Simply, You are wrong.

thanks for your one line verdict on my arguement. I know your judgements are final but One more time i will ask for your response on the logic you have put forward ie. If a 500/month maintenance house is selling for 400k, then a comparable house with 1500/month maintenance should sell for zero price ( 400k- 40,000*1,000/100). House selling for a zero price? this means i can buy this house for zero price and reap all the benefits of price appreciation and not lose anything on price depreciation (since the asset is priced at floor of zero). This is what i called being long the call option on the house in my previous posts. High Maintenance gives you a call option on the house..you are ignoring this piece of the puzzle. in the current downwardmarket i will happily buy an asset with no upfront and a call option value ie an asset with higher maintenance.

If you own an apartment are you personally liable for payment of monthly payments? If so, even if you bought for one dollar, and you are solvent (have other assets), you presumably can't just walk away, but would have to pay someone to assume the liability (lol...a negative price for the apartment).

If you own an apartment are you personally liable for payment of monthly payments? If so, even if you bought for one dollar, and you are solvent (have other assets), you presumably can't just walk away, but would have to pay someone to assume the liability (lol...a negative price for the apartment).

Slope:

PAS's address is the TITLE of the thread & his listing is linked to this thread. If the discussion is no longer about him, then why not start a new post?

People won't start a new post because they just want to do further damage to him, like the guy who wanted to push the posts to 500 so it'd be picked up by Curb. Pure evil.

You're right: This is more like the Milgram Experiment.

If this apartment is a "call option" on manhattan real estate, I would sell it like speculators sold options on Wachovia, Washington Mutual or other hopeless and failed banking institutions. Sometimes SELLING call options is where the money is. I'd like to short this apartment at $400K, where so many posters think PAS should drop the price to. I still think it's a good sale at that price. In a couple of years, an apartment with this maintenance may be selling for less than $200k IMHO.

Mattcab - greetings from Mirrorland...where bansalpr and PAS try to convince you that high maintenance is GOOD:

bansalpr
"don't forget, markets are efficient. there is a reason why apartments in 407PAS are cheap and the reason is maintenance."

407PAS
"I want to extend a warm thank you to bansalpr who pointed out that in a market with greater price pressure, as we are in now, an apartment that has a lower price and higher maintenance exposes a buyer to less price risk because more of the risk is hidden in the relatively fixed maintenance costs. I think this argument is absolutely brilliant. Thanks bansalpr."

happyrenter
"bansalpr, your argument in favor of high maintenance is absurd."

...and you look at train wreck then drive your train into it:

Mattcab
By the way, biggest disaster is 581 comments on something rather unremarkable.

Well, it is interesting to see the change in psychology in just two weeks -- the early part of thread thought the apt. was moderately overpriced, in less than 15 days, we are now talking about the apartment potentially being sold at less than 200k or even as low as $1. If you didn't know the thread has been up only two weeks, you wouldn't believe it -- have we really gotten that much bleaker in our outlook in that little of a time frame (or should I say realistic)?

If you could rent a one bedroom for $2300/mo, the question is how much would you pay in capital, to avoid a monthly charge of ($2300 rent - $1655 maintenance =) $645? At a cap rate of 3% (which is generous, since the market is closer to 5%), saving $645 would mean a capital value of $258K. At the 5% cap rate, the capital value is $154k. Those are the cold hard numbers. Argue about the $2300 rent, but I think we are there or nearly there in generic cookie cutter Manhattan one bedrooms.

jmkeenan: "Well, it is interesting to see the change in psychology in just two weeks -- the early part of thread thought the apt. was moderately overpriced, in less than 15 days, we are now talking about the apartment potentially being sold at less than 200k or even as low as $1. If you didn't know the thread has been up only two weeks, you wouldn't believe it -- have we really gotten that much bleaker in our outlook in that little of a time frame (or should I say realistic)?"

I think that what has happened is that people have really started to run the numbers. They aren't just looking at $489,000 in the abstract, but they're crunching the numbers a few different ways. For example, as PMG did above. Once you do that, you truly realize just how overpriced it is.

Alternatively, to get some perspective, you can consider that PAS407 paid $225,000 for this unit in 2003. And it seems like a stretch (understated) to say that this unit has appreciated over 100% in 6 years.

I've started about two threads and gotten zero comments, so I have bad new thread karma marketing skills, but I'm all for letting this one die so the specific apartment guy can hold open houses in peace, resess his strategy,or sell or not sell.

How about one of you veterans creating a generic thread on "Our favorite units with rent near maint. level", kind of like the price choppers series.

That could also be labeled, "coops that could trade for $1"

Re: I think that what has happened is that people have really started to run the numbers.

That's right. we've seen:

- monthly carrying cost analysis, including impact of maintenace
- "capital value" of the incremental cost of rental in excess of maintenance
- rental level multiples based on hoistorical norms
- comparables, including the magnitude and rate of change in asking prices of these comparables
- and more

And if nothing else, people are realizing there are many factors to consider and a little analysis doesn't hurt.

PS: if I read "tomorrow prices could go up or down, nobody has a crystal ball" one more time, I'm gonna puke.

West34, and others, you are right. Amid the to and fro of personalities, it really has become about the numbers. I just put out another generic thread on this topic of high maint to rent ratio, and it would be interesting to see what other examples there are (unless people shun my new thread, because they somehow figured out that I am not tall, skinny, and wear glasses). Post-bubble people are going to look at this stuff much more carefully, I think.

as all good things in life, this thread is gone too..sad

huh? thread is still here!
and i hope it will stay here, forever!

it is back! did it ever go away? hmmm

thank you streeteasy for bringing back this informative thread!

in!!!

Speaking of Curbed and 407 PAS, here's a rather hideous apartment.

http://curbed.com/archives/2006/12/12/thats_rather_hideous_407_park_ave_south_.php

Along with this choice comment:

We almost bought in this building a few years ago. The maintenance is so high because the building defaulted on its underlying mortgage a while back. We were never privy to the whole story, but somehow the mafia was involved (not joking), and co-op funds were for investment in illicit activites rather than put toward the mortgage. After reviewing the financials, our lawyer would not allow us to proceed with the deal. Really sketchy place.

We're back!

Hey, I think I'll rent this place:
dfhg

Fuck. That didn't work.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/484341-coop-407-park-avenue-south-kips-bay-new-york

This will be my last post on this thread.

The problems of the past are behind us now.

The facts are:
* The mortgage terms were worked out with the bank and the shareholders did not lose their investments in the building, way back when.
* The coop was able to refinance their mortgage last year and the coop is financially stable.
* We have not seen a maintenance increase in three years and saved money as part of the refinance, money which can be used to maintain the maintenance at its current level.
* The building was able to replace all of the windows a few years ago without levying a special assessment.
* The building is well maintained and has reserve funds for all of the major systems.
* There is no flip tax in the building.
* The board is competent, well-run, and populated by lawyers, not real estate brokers.

Any potential buyer can hire a lawyer and review the financials of the coop in order to ascertain these facts. Our management company does a terrific job of taking care of the building.

Look, the city changes. Neighborhoods get better. Buildings that have problems turn themselves around and become more stable. The shaky condos of today will probably figure out a way to get through their problems in order to be stable in the future.

You are slandering my building with old news, with problems that happened and issues that have been worked through. I was not going to respond any more to this thread but felt I had to reply to these charges.

407PAS: "You are slandering my building with old news, with problems that happened and issues that have been worked through. I was not going to respond any more to this thread but felt I had to reply to these charges."

Small problem: IT'S NOT SLANDER IF IT'S TRUE. And based on your response, PAS407, it seems like those claims are true.

No, it is not true, there was no default, they worked it out with the bank so that the shareholders did not lose their investment. That is what I said. Those were tough times, yes, but the coop survived, after all, we're still here. I know of no factual basis for this mob connection rumor.

Anyway, this is still an attack based on things that happened in the past. I would be more worried about buying into a condo building that had current financial problems then I would be worried about buying into this coop, which is well-run and stable. I have been here for seven years. I could stay longer, it is just that we want a little more space and close proximity to Central Park in order to run because my wife and I are both runners. Anyway, I ran six miles tonight and have to turn in now.

I do not want to keep responding to this thread because of the hate that has been directed at me. You can read all my old posts, I never called anybody names, and yet people have called me horrible names. I don't feel good about engaging in this discussion anymore if people are going to react in this way. I have tried to be honest in everything that I have posted. If we disagree on price, fine, it is common in this market. I wish everyone well.

PAS407, you really are amazing. Let's compare your last two posts:

407PAS (5 minutes ago): "No, it is not true,."

vs.

407PAS (2 hours ago): You are slandering my building with old news, WITH PROBLEMS THAT HAPPENED and ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN WORKED THROUGH." (emphasis added)

I usually don't care about what happens to other people, but you are so out of it, I seriously, honestly, with all my might, hope that you lose your shirt on this apartment. The world will be a slightly happier place if you keep being stubborn and sell this place for $200,000 18 months from now.

as if we all didn't know that he was in the background lurking...just waiting to post again...a scorpion has to sting...something about their nature. amazing.

please keep us posted on your daily mileage. very exciting stuff.

the hatred on here is disgusting, and streeteasy should not have re-introduced this thread.

change the channel avery

sniper, anyone reading this thread anyone knows that you have used this forum only to settle some personal vendetta against 407PAS. You have some issues you need to work on, least of which is 407PAS. you were a good entertainment in the begining but now you are just annoying and come out as someone with no intellect. 407 PAS is an extremely well run bldg with no management and financial issues. Your bickering is not going to change that fact. Any potential buyer will do their due diligance and will rely on their lawyers and not you or any others to make a decision. I pray for your peace...

Thanks bansalpr. Well, I might as well put this post on here to counter the notion that I am bansalpr. I am not bansalpr. I have never met bansalpr. Yes, we live in the same building, but I don't know most of the people who live in my building and I don't know bansalpr.

Yesterday, I made a suggestion to StreetEasy that they should start charging ($2?) for posting to this forum and use the credit card information to try to insure unique userids so that we can try to get around the abuse from all of these aliases. Of course, the StreetEasy administrators have not responded to my suggestion. I also suggested that StreetEasy put a post on here verifying that I am not bansalpr (based on my insider status) but they didn't respond to that suggestion either.

By the way, bansalpr, diligence is spelled 'diligence', not 'diligance'. I would never make that mistake. Does that help convince people that we are not the same person? 'Beginning' also has two 'n's. I am sure you think I invented the spelling mistakes in one post and corrected them in the next. So it goes.

Also, for those of you who wish me financial ill, you should have gathered by now that I will be fine, come what may. I'm not a rich man but I have not done stupid things with my money. I don't wish financial troubles on anyone. Try to look into your own hearts and figure out why you have such hatred for me. I am not the evil person you have made me out to be, I am a decent person.

If we see my apartment at $200k, I'm going to have to see some 2BD/2BA apartments at $600k. Oh yeah, if you're going to spend the next four hundred posts attacking my price, at least have the decency to post some comps, settled comps would be even better. I'll eventually get around to looking at them and you would be helping me out in my study of the market. One last thing, keep the discussions respectful and don't let them sink back into nastiness, as we have seen in the recent past.

407PAS I have no desire to see you foreclose but I must say your suggestion to StreetEasy about $2 posts is patently absurd and says volumes about your thinking right now--not very lucid. You've claimed numerous times that "this is your last post" yet return only get lambasted which just furthers your frustration. Just back away from StreetEasy and forget it, let it go...

you guys are great. seriously...the highest level of entertainment possible.

bansalpr - don't waste your time "praying for my peace." pray for your neighbor (if you think praying works). i have NEVER once mentioned anything about the price of the apartment or the way the building has been run. i have taken issue with the marketing, if you will, of this apartment - which includes the postings by an owner who just can't help himself. you have been out there defending him and your building - which is fine - but the SCORPION EVEN STINGS YOU!!!!! he just cannot help it.

he basically said "bansalpr and i can't be the same person...i would not make such moronic spelling mistakes. who do you people think i am????" seriously, this guy cuts down everyone that comes in his path whether you are with him or against. think about it? did he really need to mock your spelling? was that necessary? does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy about going out there and defending him some more? he has obviously created an atmosphere here where people want to wish him bad things. that is of his own doing. until he sees that - things will never change for him. he needs a little self-realization: he thinks he is a "decent person" who "tells funny stories" and "has never called anyone names on this thread names" while "being attacked by everyone." a lot of people on here would see things differently.

sticky - did you see a mirror at the open house? i am not sure if this guy has ever looked in one.

$2 per month, you misunderstood.

oh...$2 a month!!! now it makes total sense!!!

he did not misunderstand...you miscommunicated. but how could we expect you to see that?

bansalpr,
I was not mocking your spelling, I was only pointing out the differences between our posts, so people would see that we are not the same person. I don't mean you any ill will, just like I don't wish other people on here ill will.

Anyway, I will not continue these postings. I have had my say. Thanks for listening.

407PAS--Do you think the words "I'm not going to post here again" means something other than "From this point forward, one will not see my user name attached to a subsequently-submitted post"? I think I've counted at least 3 or 4 "last posts" from you--a promise that has to now remained unfulfilled.

Also, consider that the Streeteasy administrators don't answer your emails because you appear to be kind of a pain in the ass.

407PAS, you are taking this all too personally and letting your emotions take over. 99% of the posts were concerned with the price of the apartment. Let's get back to that.

You just said "If we see my apartment at $200k, I'm going to have to see some 2BD/2BA apartments at $600k".

That was always the point that many of us were trying to make -- why dont you price your place appropriately NOW, looking forward instead of backward and get $399,000 in your pocket NOW??? In today's world it doesn't even matter what somebody paid for a comparable last month! The market is freefalling.

You don't want to be Indiana Jones trying to outrun a giant boulder. I think we would all collectively applaud if you pocketed $400K now and actually DID pay $600K for a 2/2 next year. I'd come to the housewarming and toast your brilliance.

407 PAS and 407PAS bldg are not the same thing. this thread is unnecessarily causing bad publicity to our bldg. I agree with sniper that calling out my spelling mistakes was uncalled for( i will never make that mistake?). 407 PAS, we all make mistakes.

$2 posts? I don't view SE as suicidal.

bansalpr,
I apologize for offending you with regards to the spelling mistakes. My intention was to try to convince people that we were not the same person, not to ridicule you in any way. Please believe that. My comment was misunderstood as a personal attack.

Yes, I am sorry for the bad publicity that is being brought on the building. All I can do is to speak the truth about our current financial situation, as you have also done. The information pulled from Google can be damaging when there is no way for the other side of the story to be told. By the way, I could not figure out a way to post a comment on the thread at Curbed. It would be great if you could do that so that both sides of the story are told on that thread.

407PAS: I thought the previous comment about $2 fees was your last post??

...and he's back...again.

the biggest problem here is that you are clueless about what the results of your actions might be. every intention you have works out to be exactly the opposite. who - in their right mind - would think that pointing out someone's spelling errors would be the best way to "prove" that you two are not the same poster? seriously? what kind of mangled thinking would lead you to believe that? the same thinking that leads you to believe that you EVEN NEED TO PROVE to anyone that you are different people. no one really cares...they are doing it to get a rise out of you and you fall for it every time. it is incredible to witness. there are at least a dozen times on this thread where you have insulted some one or called them names only to apologize a few posts later. truly fascinating.

Oh, the irony of 407 correcting the spelling of another poster. Go back a few pages and you'll see 407's "for all intensive purposes." Those are some INTENSE PURPOSES!!

I think SE has found its new lol-cow. Rufus is dead, long live 407PAS! May your milk be sweet.

(By the way, whatever happened to Rufus?)

I'm with West 34.

PAS407:

- Comment here whenever you want, because you don't owe anyone a pledge of silence.

- Your post in the buildings finances was helpful (and next time, don't talk about slander or attack, etc. because it just gives the vultures something to jump up and down about).

- The market seems to most to be moving. Lower your price now and sell, then rent, and then buy in the future when prices are further down. You will get the last laugh. Don't give your meaningless nemesises (sp ?) on here the slightest thought if you decide to lower your price; all sellers are thinknig about the same issue.

- Ignore your over-the-top counterparts on here....it's all just silly.

- It's a very attractive apartment, so use that to move it at an attractive price in a bad market where little is selling. Ask yourself hard -- do you want to sell or not

But I do think you are bansalpr...lol, I don't care...but same building, same attitude frequently, and suspicious that bansalpr, apart from posts 17 months ago, only recently started posting again and only on discussions of your apartment....but ...this is harmless. Maybe I am wrong.

ON THE BANSALPR MYSTERY:

Regarding, the Banslpr Issue I believe a rather compelling peice of evidence is on this thread. The next to last post, before it was taken off the air, was Bansalpr stating "this thread is over", to which an understandably puzzled Anonman202 replied, "huh". But then it was off the air right after Anonman202's post. So, how, one might ask, did Bansalrp know in advance that the thread would be pulled? It is unlikely that Bansalpr would have been informed in advance by SE. Doesn't it seem more likely that SE had informed PAS407. Am I missing something?

Additional evidence was, I have to agree with Sniper, the lame idea that a misspelled word would show a different identity. Sorry, but form over substance: Bansalprs "arguments" and attitude were strikingly similar to PAS407.

PAS407 wrote that he "suggested that StreetEasy put a post on here verifying that I am not bansalpr (based on my insider status)". Unless both are insiders, nothing would be proved.

READ BELOW THE LAST TWO THREADS BEFORE IT WENT OFF....AND THE FIRST THREAD BACK
bansalpr
2 days ago
as all good things in life, this thread is gone too..sad

AnonMan2002
2 days ago
huh? thread is still here!
and i hope it will stay here, forever!

sniper
about 24 hours ago
it is back! did it ever go away? hmmm

As much as it pains me, I do have to say I agree with Sniper's boomerang argument...everything the original poster tries to do seems, by an apt choice of just the right words and argument, seem to cause an oppposite reaction.

jim - your theory is quite interesting. good legwork with the quotes and the posts from 17 months ago, etc. will we ever know? we have to figure out what B-a-n-s-a-l-p-r itself means. maybe there is a clue hidden in there.

oppposite -> opposite.

;-)

Well, Jim, I am wracking my brains in order to try to figure out a way to prove to you that I am not bansalpr. Yes, I had hoped that bansalpr was also an insider so that a StreetEasy administrator could put this mystery to rest but I do not know bansalpr's status, that is, whether or not he coughs up $10 every month to be an insider. The StreetEasy admins don't communicate with me about this thread so your arguments don't hold any water. The admins appear to act randomly, depending on the email they receive and what mood they're in.

What you don't know about me is that I am incapable of dissembling. I had hoped that you might pick up on that after hundreds of posts but I guess it does not come through in my writing. I suppose you are correct that people often take my words in exactly the opposite way than they were intended. This fact pains me but I can't figure out a way to write or think differently. I have no alias id because I know I couldn't fool any of you, not even for a minute.

By the way, thanks for the support Jim, you gave me the permission to speak when so many are yelling at me to be quiet. Since my words are so often misunderstood, I honestly don't want to go on with these discussions. I would, however, like to prove once and for all that I am not bansalpr. All I can say is that you must accept my word for that fact.

I liked the apartment until I saw the maintenance.

The whole thing is suspicious.
The first comment was negative, and 407 responded.
Then, as if to compensate, each comment thereafter was a different person who had something positive to say, including about some pretty irrelevant things like the refrigerator. In actual order, other than the "thank you" replies from 407:
OTNYC: Cute apt, 407 - good luck! Let us know how it turns out.
NWT: You've got the pricing nailed, for both the building and the neighborhood. Especially since the other corner one-bedrooms don't have that second window in the bedroom.
BTW, that's a great refrigerator choice. Like how the freezer door is same height as the adjacent counter.
manhattanguy: Good luck. But I want to say that I know of similar sized apartments priced at the low end of $400k in Kips Bay area. Granted yours is on a top floor.
feingirl: Your apartment is lovely and very well priced. The mt. is a bit high but I think you have compensated for it in the price.
falcogold1: I know this place...doesn't Jill Layton live directly above this apartment?
newbuyer99: 407PAS - I am glad you dropped the price, I think it will increase your likelihood of success. Good luck.
evnyc: 407, good luck! It's a very pretty apartment. You've done a good job with the marketing. Best wishes to you.
w67thstreet: Whooooooooooot! Good luck! and Best wishes for success!
jasmine: Good for you..407 I agree with you

... absurd. Not a single person thought that the place was overpriced in all those early posts? FSBOs (of single owner apartments, not people who are FSBOs but buy and sell as part of their investments) by definition are overpriced. Oh wait, the person who disagreed with me before was banalspa. The only other person except 407 who thinks HIGH maintenance is good.

ps - love the argument about spelling.

GlandularProblem, you are an idiot, and I am SO glad I am not you. I would never admit to people if I had a glandular problem. Never. Therefore you and I are NOT the same person.

For my part, I'm not yelling at PAS407 to be quiet. Only to stop dramatically proclaiming that this or that post is the last one he will make in this thread, only to post 3 minutes later. It makes him look stupid. Then again, this whole fucking thread serves that purpose.

"I am not the evil person you have made me out to be, I am a decent person"

Persecution complex, anyone? Jeez-uz, man, stop with the Buddy Ryan impersonation already.