Open House Today 1:30-4:00pm - High Floor Corner 1 Bedroom - 407 Park Avenue South #18B

i agree with iwouldhitit (love that name btw).
this has gone on a while so maybe my memory on it is not great on this but i don't rememmber aneone telling PAS to be qyet. in fact, i couldn't bee happeir than when he is posting. i was slowly dying inside when he stopped posting...now, i haven't fellt this allive all weak. he just likes to think everyone is out to get him. he thrives on it.

"The board is competent, well-run, and populated by lawyers"

LOL - the adjectives "competent" and "well-run" associated with "lawyers"??? Surely you meant to type "shady" and "nefarious" instead? I kid, I kid...

Okay, as much as I love the catty comments and the petty bickering, let's get this thread back onto the task at hand: looking inside the mind of a delusional seller in the midst of a real estate market in freefall.

jimstreeteasy- your ivestigative work on my identity is pretty compelling. Reality is, it was just a coincidence that the thread was taken off after my commnet of it being gone. there are 140 residents in this bldg and i am just one of them. I do not know 407 PAS. In fact two years ago i posted a message on streeteasy asking why the maintenance on this bldg is so high? if i am 407 PAS why would i ask that question? 407 PAS- spellsceck please :-)

ivestigative -> investigative
commnet -> comment
spellsceck -> spellcheck

"bansalpr
4 days ago
ignore this person
west34, i have a proposition for you. i will sell the place at 489k, pay you 600$/month maintenance and buy the place from you one year later at 344k. You should be indifferent based on your analysis. I will make 145k in one year on this transaction.. do you see what is wrong with the analysis... "

Mystery solved- 407PAS forgot who he was during role playing.

I've finally got to finishing reading this long thread. It's not over! I've got lots of questions and comments!

Larry (or bansalpr or whoever you are)- You've got to ask yourself which direction do you see the market going? Down, right? With all these choices, buyers are looking for a deal. They're looking for an apartment at a steal. As many have said, you should price your apt ahead of the curve. Take a smaller profit. You've already done well in your investment. If you're betting that the market is going lower, give someone a deal now and you'll rent for a year and get an even better deal later. Don't be so greedy. You're not giving a chance for the next buyer to have any chance of price appreciation. Rents will only go lower because you'll be competing with the new construction putting their units on the rental market.

Personally, I've tried FSBO. I was in the same situation as you. I didn't NEED to move and took my time. A few agents contacted me and I did some screening. I could tell that some were fresh out of training with their lines. I still believe that RE agents are useless for the most part, but like you, I knew I was attached to my high-end renovations (I didn't use Jenn-Air). I realized that I need to sell and sell it quickly so I worked with a good agent at a reputable firm. I looked for appearance, street smarts, business saavy, negotiation skills, and customer service skills. As a person, I didn't like the guy, but I knew he would get the job done. I tell you this because it's not personal, it's business.

It's inevitable that prices will go down. Pricing aggressively is key if you're serious about selling. You're a smart guy. You know this is not the bottom. Take the imaginary hit today and watch the market sink further and you will be a winner. No one will pay market price these days. Especially with your high maintenance fees, your market value will become zero soon. Don't think it won't happen. Nobody thought Lehman and BS could go under and they did.

Bansalpr..quite a coincidence. You sounded quite confident they would take it off. Oh well, the other Sherlock Holmes types will keep looking for evidence (although I am not so sure newaccount's find is really indicative, because bansalpr might be speaking hypothetically).

407PAS: This will eventually die, I suppose. I take it you are still convinced your price is right..or are you going to perhaps lower it (it's been a long time on the market now, and conditions way worse than even a few weeks ago). I don't care. Make fools of everyone by selling at a good price ! In this market you have to price so that people think it's a deal or no one will buy, is my guess.

If I were not morally opposed to gambling, I would take all bets with regards to the question of whether or not I am bansalpr. I am not bansalpr. Just accept this as fact. I do not lie and I have not lied about this fact.

Anyway, posting under two names would be more like "fibbing" than a serious lie, a little entertainment. Or maybe like cross-dressing, tryout out different personas.

Good post newaccount. Many on here feel that way.

ok, I'll ask, PAS. Is your wife bansalpr?

407PAS: serious question, when is your next price cut and by how much?

GlandularProblems take on the first few super-positive posts "you've really nailed it",,etc. bring to mind Amazon reviews. Have you ever noticed that if you find some below-the-radar-screen book with like six reviews that several will be 5 stars. That's because the author, his wife, his college roommate, the dog, and the author again, are all posting. It's hyping to try to get the flow going. Tons of writers do it now on Amazon.

The audience awaits PAS407 considered take on current state of the market.................any evolution...or sticking to 489?

"ok, I'll ask, PAS. Is your wife bansalpr?"

Nope. bansalpr is someone who is unknown to me. He lives in my building but I have never met him. I may have seen him a thousand times but I have never been introduced to him. I do not know what he looks like. That's life in the big city. I generally keep to myself and don't trouble my neighbors.

West34, in regards to the apartment, as the dude from "The Big Lebowski" said, "The dude abides."

Have a good weekend everybody. Let's hope we finally see some sun and can get out there and enjoy the nice weather. There are other things besides real estate. Signing off now.

"I generally keep to myself and don't trouble my neighbors"

407 - if one of your neighbors knocked on your door and asked for some sugar, would you give it to them for free? I only ask because you previously stated that you refuse to put out cookies at your open houses, since people see free food and abuse the privilege. Alternatively, do you ever ask your neighbors for sugar? And, if so, do you offer to pay for it when you do? A penny for your thoughts, sir.

"There are other things besides real estate"

As evidenced by this never-ending thread - lol.

ridiculous---lets get some feedback; how many of us have ever asked for or rec'd a request for sugar?

I asked my hot next door neighbor for some "sugar" once and she slapped me - I guess she misunderstood.

I wouldn't eat a cookie at an open house,any open house. I especially wouldn't want to smell "fresh baking", because it would make me wonder if they were covering some dog smell or cigarett smell. I applaud not having cookies at the open house.

I think in nyc it is a lot more likely your neighbor would have an emergency need for some drug or alchohol or a condom than sugar.

By "sugar" I was actually referring to coke, obviously. Sorry not to make that clear.

BTW, quick poll - what happens first: I beat LeBron James in a game of 1-on-1 (up to 14, by 1s; make it take it) or 407 gets 489K? I vote the former.

We don't know what any seller really thinks. Perhaps the 489 is strategic pricing, so that he can offer a big discount to make a deal with someone who is interested. I.E., it is possible even he does not expect that. You can disagree with that strategy, but it is one used by many sellers.

(I haven't changed my view that he ought to cut big and count himself lucky to sell...but...time will tell).

There is another listing where the listing owner/broker would very much like the kind of analysis provided in this thread:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/9927-5th-avenue-address-in-harlem-open-house-sunday-45-from-230-400-pm

BASED ON THE EXPERIENCE OF THIS SITE THIS IS WHAT I POSTED ON THE HARLEM APT FOR SALE SITE:

Oh my, do you realize what deep DOG-POO you stepped in with this post?

This is not your family and friends, slapping you on the back and saying, go get um.

This is a critical-minded, market-prescient group that will let you know what your apartment is worth today (if you're lucky), and in a few months, and in a few years. And that knowledge will irritate you. But, the thing is, odds are these take-no-prisoners truth-tellers are right. The truth is ugly. This is not a place to find a greater fool. In fact, the talk threads on this site are defacto dedicated to stopping the greater-fool illness from re-surging to re-flate the absurd prices that have afflicted New York City, including Harlem, in recent years. Greater-fool-ery is being treated, but fighting like hell to stay alive. It's almost like MRSA. I wear gloves when I surf real estate sites.

don't let 'er die

"there are other things besides real estate. Signing off now"

--until you sign back on in 10 minutes

One thing that seems clear to me is selling your place FSBO requires a certain set of people skills that not everyone possesses. Especially if you are asking above market. You need to do a fancy lot of talking to get someone to pay you these days. 2006 is in the rearview mirror and fading away fast.

My sentiments exactly. Facts don't sell an apt in NYC, a good salesperson does. Who sold the highest priced apt at 407 PAS? I'm sure it was a RE agent.

We pause from this program to offer a vocabulary lesson: Today's word is SOPHISTRY

EXAMPLE OF SOPHISTRY: "Facts don't sell an apt in NYC, a good salesperson does. Who sold the highest priced apt at 407 PAS? I'm sure it was a RE agent." as stated by newaccount

SOPHISTRY:
1. Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument.

How was the open house yesterday?

6 offers, 4 above asking

I knew pricing it low would spark a bidding war!

price chop:

http://web.me.com/mac.hive/407PAS/18B.html

Uh oh.

Hey i thought the deal was done? I was able to eat my bowl of crow.

maybe a deal is done. there was nothing listed on this thread.

who's the sucker?

What's the cut- $20,000? PAS has missed the memo about staying ahead of the price curve.

the cut was $14,000. i believe it was at $489 when we were all arguing about it and now it s $475.

that is ridiculous...that's not a cut. poor guy...poster child for how not to price. oh well.

It's a Greek tragedy -- and he's following the script -- chasing the market down just like we all said he would... chop, chop, chop, chop...

407: there's still time -- forget about you glassy ceilings and nice fridge, sell it for $375K -- put the cash in the bank, join the chorus and enjoy the show with the rest of us.

that is a really nice fridge....too bad it doens't add anything to his place.

Anyone considered itemization?

Go, present an offer as follows:

base price: square footage @ price per square foot, calculated based on the area
+ per floor premium
- extra maintenance charges and taxes
+ depreciated value of refrigerator
+ labor and materials for interior design
labor discounted %
materials depreciated
= value
- 50% savings on brokerage fee
=
=
=

time to bump the majestic thread, too

A decrease of less than three percent? That's a rounding error, not a price cut.

He started back in September at 525k, so he's now down to a price that's about ten percent less than where he started. And since then the overall market has decreased at least twenty percent, meaning the apartment relative to its competition was more attractive in September than it is now.

If it didn't sell then, what makes him think he'll sell it now?

What a doof.

WOW, 8 pages! You guys are absolutely obsessed with the guy's apartment! Seriously, GET A LIFE!

and if your still out there PAS, my advice would be to quit cutting the price and instead just hire an agent. Because without one, your going to be cutting your price until your blue in the face. And no, I am not a agent.

alpine292, I disagree. I said this earlier, but I think the staging is very well done and the pictures and website are excellent, on par or better than what I've seen brokers put together. You really think a broker is going to get him an extra 28K at this point? That said, I think the price will have to go lower to offset the maintenance.

Re: GET A LIFE!

this from someone who apparently posts on every other thread here 24 hours a day?

I think of this thread as being about more than 407PAS and his apartment. He is now the poster boy for the "seller in denial", the price chopping market chaser, a seller so emotionally attached to his "investment" that he can't or wont see the big picture. He is a living stereotype, and it's simply amazing to watch it happen in real time.

Honestly - we could write an MBA paper on this. Fascinating. Have to wait till the end though.

Whoa--a price cut???? What are you doing, PAS407?? You already have the lowest priced one-bedroom in the building. As it was $489,000 was giving it away. Now you're cutting even more below market???? You may have lost your mind. Honestly. Don't let the people here get to you. That apartment is worth every penny of $700,000 (you deserve a premium for the fridge). Seriously--if anyone here is related to PAS407, please, please, please get him help immediately!! He's giving away his apartment!!

Nice apartment, but when you examine the floor plan, it does not appear to be as large as stated. I like the "as per offering plan". Bring your tape measure.

Let us not call this a "price cut." It is a listing price cut.

Problem is, in this market, anyone who is interested, let us go back to the $489 price point, anyone who is interested would have probably made an offer at $475 if very interested. Or $450 or below if marginally interested. But the offers would have been made if there was interest. This listing price cut doesn't really take it out of the same range it was in before, it doesn't attract a new universe of buyers, it doesn't convince the theoretically previously interested buyer that there's no need for bravery by offering the lower price.

Personally, if the seller needs to sell, and it doesn't sound like it based on statements, I'd recommend cutting it to $425 and offering a 2.5% commission to a buyer's broker.

If the seller doesn't need to sell, I'd take it off the market for 18 months.

It's an interesting situation. I believe the seller wishes to either upgrade to a 2 BR and/or move near Central Park. So to be an honest critic, you have to take into account his ability to find that desired place at his price point. It's not an easy timing exercise while trying to sell the existing apt FSBO.

Where's the neighbor?

Gleeclub is on the money here. Nickel and dime price cuts are a hack's strategy be it an agent or FSBO. Listing gets stale, no new pool of buyers tapped with the cut, and by the time all the $15K cuts are done you end up where you ought to have started. In a hotter market, maybe a smaller cut could work if it moved you from say just over $500K to just under. Maybe that would get the listing to pop up on more searches that had been missing it. But in a slow market what is the point of micro reductions? Actually, what is the point of a $15K reduction from $489K to $475K in any market? It isn't popping up on anyone new searchers screens--it is the same buyer pool who passed on the property before the cut. I like the idea of a larger chop--say $39K or $40K and offering a 2.5% commission.

Obviously the original and current strategy isn't working. Why stick with it? If the FSBO doesn't care and can just as easily stay put if he doesn't get a higher price, that's okay, but then why bother with the $15K cut? It doesn't get you anything.

PAS407 should have RAISED his price to >$500K to attract a new pool of buyers. Obviously, that fridge only continues to appreciate in value, eventually it gets featured on Antiques Roadshow! $15K, what a laugh.

Aw, give the refrigerator a break. Just saw the same one at http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1701308. Just call me a fridge fetishist....

I love how the counter alligns perfectly with the freezer. That's hot.

LOL. Get me a towel....

i have to digress to NWT's mention of 11 W 81 and yes the frig/counters look groovy - do I need to buy a clue - this unit is this price because?

...because the owner is looking to make a few bucks on her 2006 purchase. Timing's a bit off, eh?

True that, NWT.

Why not just make an offer for PAS407s fridge, fuhgeddabout the apt. I'll make a better return on my money that way.

I was thinking the same thing -- but would expand the offer to include the ceilings as well. They're not popcorn after all. So how much for just the fridge and the ceilings?

currently this is the lowest price 1 Br in 407 PAS bldg... i think he shouldn't cut the price anymore, rather he should offer some discount on maintenence for next few years.

the UWS comps thread is getting dangerously close to this one in comments.

407PAS, subsidizing high maint is BS. Just cut the price by a sizable chunk.

Recommend $425 price chop and to be prepared for $399 in 4 weeks if no takers, OR remove it from the market.

I agree with Glee and Kyle above. And newaccount.

Was there an open house for this apartment today? If so, did anyone go?

Of course no one went. The listing is stale. Textbook FSBO and bad-broker strategies in pricing. With this price cut, no new demographic was tapped. This sale is a mess.

There's another one planned for Mothers Day. Should be quite an event. If he weren't averse to free food, he'd throw a barbecue for the one Memorial Day weekend. Might as well plan ahead for Labor Day as well, looking at how this is going.

Will the fireworks moving to the West Side effect the view on July 4th?

although they each vociferously claimed not to be the same person, i have not seen a single post from "bansalpr" anywhere on this site since "407PAS" dropped off the face of the earth...hmmmmm.

in case anyone was wondering: the apartment still sits at the last price drop of $475K

thanks for the update, sniper. I was wondering if PAS407 was still holding his open houses.

I have a certain amount of respect for his stubborness.

still holding tight at $475,000

Is 779 posts the record?...Wait. I think there was one over 1000 that malraux and stevejhx and others had going a year ago. But still. This one still gets me to click.

I think the IYCDMWC - UWS thread has over 900.

it is a lot but there are a couple i have seen that have more.
i wish we could get some kind of update or resolution on this. without spanky around to go to an open house it is hard to know what is happening.

any thoughts on renting the apartment??

hahaha - it never ends!

i wonder if this will make it onto the google results and the entire 407 park avenue south (407 PAS) will get mad at him...

No open house scheduled for the weekend? Damn, now what am I going to do? I was counting on him holding a BBQ on that sweet balcony.

still mia

God I love this thread.

The building has done well from 2005 to today:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/370043-coop-407-park-ave-south-kips-bay-new-york
StreetEasy History

04/18/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $270,000.
12/09/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $379,000.
03/10/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $365,000.
03/24/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $349,000.
04/28/2009 Listing entered contract.
06/12/2009 Listing is no longer available.
06/25/2009 Listing sold.
06/25/2009 Sale recorded for $328,000.

His site's down. Could it have gone to contract?

Even if it's in contract why would he take it down? What if the deal falls through?

That's a good point. Something must be up. Foreclosure?

It can't be a sale or 407PAS would have been the first on this thread to say "Told Ya So". I still think he should just sell the fridge and forget the apt. This thread lives on!

there was an increase in the maintenance. it currently sits at $7850/month. due to this he could no longer pay godaddy.com the $19.99 a year fee to list the website.

Is there an open house this weekend? Someone needs to go. This is my favorite apartment in all of NYC.

I think he should take out the fridge. This would justify a price cut.
He could then use the fridge to increase the value of his newer home,
keeping the good stuff for himself.

sniper: "in case anyone was wondering: the apartment still sits at the last price drop of $475K"

Looks like he has competition at $449k...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/416765-coop-407-park-avenue-south-kips-bay-new-york

In all fairness, it should be noted that this apartment may not come with an awesome fridge.

I'm no fan of this apartment, building or neighborhood. But let's be fair: a $26,000 premium for an 18th versus 5th floor unit in the same line is not at all unreasonable. I'd say the offer price of $449 unit is consistent with current pricing of PAS's unit. Which is to say they will both evidently sit unsold since the market has been shouting they will not sell at this price point.

Also, the refrigerator is indeed fantastic. Stop mocking it. Yet, I do suppose it is easier to buy one for $4000 than to obtain one buy purchasing this apartment.

it may be a great fridge but nothing is above mockery. i can never remember a fridge truly increasing the quality of my life. it's not TIVO for godsakes. if the food is fresh when you open it, then it has done it's job.

Oh, Sniper. You've never had THIS fridge, then. It is actually very much like the SubZero 600 series (30" wide), as as such, one of the very few that is counter-depth and can fit a more narrow space. It is also one of the few 30" models with a freezer-on-the-bottom. From convenience and thoughtfulness of the interior layouts to maximize utility, to the 'green' efficiency of the operation of the dual-compressors, to the consistency and control of the cooling, it is without question noticeably better than any fridge I've ever had. Is it worth $4000? Hard to say it is when a $600 unit would do 80% of the same thing a bit less elegantly. But if one is ready to splurge and really wants the counter-depth freezer-bottom built-in look, this unit really rocks. Buy an apartment because of it? Not a chance. Happy to find one in an apartment I'm buying? Yeah. But it better be a 'bonus' and not something I'm paying extra for. Don't see any appeal in paying extra for someone else's used appliances--I'd rather just get crappy old white ones with a new apt. and buy my own brand new highend ones.

you don't need his fridge. Take the $8,000 home buyer tax credit from the government, and buy your own super fridge! And use the remaining $4,000 to buy one of those Japanese toilets that spray water at you and heat the toilet seat.

ok, I'm too lazy to look thru 8 pages: what refrigerator are we talking about?