316 Bowery

Is this the place built above a Chintown office building? If so, we looked at it over the summer. Very poor quality.

they are never getting those prices at this point
and no it's not in chinatown, it's on bleeker and bowery above the old mannahatta space

If you buy into this development, you're a fool. Kaish & Taub has one of the worst reputations in New York - and that's saying a lot considering how awful most developers are. And Kaish and Taub will never be gone from the building - they'll continue owning the retail spaces on the first floor - and most likely operating them contrary to every applicable Code and Regulation that exists. You'll have nothing but battles and lawsuits. Unless they're practically giving the apartments away, I'd strongly suggest to not buy into this building.

Update - Kaish & Taub sinking closer and closer to bankruptcy. They were just forced to move out of its Madison Avenue offices to a rat hole on Lafayette Street. The apartments are built to fall apart and when you'll need to go after them they won't be around. Don't buy from Kaish and Taub is the only advice I can offer.

I agree with above postings about not buying anything from Kaish and Taub. In my experience, they set new lows for sleazy real estate developers. And don't believe their website where they claim to have Madison Avenue offices - they got evicted from those a long time ago and now operate out of a PO Box. Seriously.

New Warning - Kaish & Taub have been sued for fraud. Think long and hard before buying anything from them.

It's true that Kaish & Taub are being sued for fraud. Based on my own experience with them I'm surprised they weren't sued sooner. I strongly recommend that everybody avoid doing business with Norm Kaish and Lenny Taub.

i dont think kaish and taub are being sued. i couldnt find anything to support that claim. i think its a lie.

I guess I should connect previous posts on this building to this thread...

truthskr10
about 4 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse Ok so 316 bowery or 2 bleecker (slowly running out of disguises) has now listed cc's and taxes to a closer to "average" for the apt size. (and there are issues with that as well as posted earlier in this thread.

new ad lists lower cc's and taxes
Common Charges: $1,470
Taxes: $1,105
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/478582-condo-2-bleecker-street-noho-new-york

Given the shadiness reported on this developer by other posters, what happens in year 2 of these cc's and taxes. Are you at the mercy of the developer/management company?

truthskr10
about 4 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse Let's condense the history

about 8 weeks ago
An unscrupulous edit caught my eye.
Though I realize you'll have to take my word for it, the taxes for this apartment used to be listed at $1542.
2 bleecker PH(316 bowery) used to be listed with cc 1939 and tax 1542 and offered 1 year free of common charges.

Which has now upped the ante...."Owner will pay common charges for one year will discount Real estate taxes $500 a month for Ten years!"
However it has magically changed it's taxes to;
Common Charges: $1,938 Taxes: $1,945

truthskr10
about 4 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse continued;

truthskr10
about 8 weeks ago
ignore this person
report abuse Um correction but same point, it was the common charges that mysteriously rose to make up for the ten years taxes "gift."

Common Charges: $1,470
Taxes: $1,945

falcogold1
about 8 weeks ago
ignore this person
report abuse truth,
let's just figure it out.
the tax seem unchanged at $1945/mo. There going to discount that over 10 years (face value $60,000).
One year cc paid by developer. current cc =$1938 (face value $23,256) I see you object to the cc being raised $468 just moments before this discount, whose face value is $384. WOW what a discount!
This is clearly the special olympics of crafty marketing.

If it's not put together with spit and hope maybe there's a deal to be had. the seller is most likely in trouble although I have no apriory knowlege.

truthskr10
about 4 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse continued;

truthskr10
about 8 weeks ago
ignore this person
report abuse falco
Yeah, nice to pay pocket A with pocket B! ;)

It re-came up on a new search listing and the new monthly nut caught my eye.
(there's an ally-oop for a lewd remark ;) )

I saw this apartment and the sq footage is exaggerated, it exceeds the footprint of the building! I recall posting that on one of the sq footage threads.
Further, the floors have to be seriously crooked. The california kitchen counter which was about 10 feet long with those screwing foot pegs to level it had one side all the way screwed in and the other side as high as those legs could go to make the countertop level.

That aside, the cc/taxes are made up as they go along. The developer is still the seller, with all three units still unsold(though maybe rented). Supposedly according the developer, the restaurant (Manhatta)was paying a higher portion of the taxes as told to me.
According to propertyshark, the taxes on the building are

Taxable Value $694,012
Tax Rate x 0.13053
Tax before Tax Abatements = $90,589
Tax Abatements - $0
Annual Tax Bill = $90,589

90,589 divided by 4 units EVENLY (including ground floor restaurant Manhatta) = $22,647.25 per unit or $1887.27 per month!

I think poster NYCHK is not far with his post on the discussions thread;
"NYCHK
about 6 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse If you buy into this development, you're a fool. Kaish & Taub has one of the worst reputations in New York - and that's saying a lot considering how awful most developers are. And Kaish and Taub will never be gone from the building - they'll continue owning the retail spaces on the first floor - and most likely operating them contrary to every applicable Code and Regulation that exists. You'll have nothing but battles and lawsuits. Unless they're practically giving the apartments away, I'd strongly suggest to not buy into this building."

Suffice it to say, I wouldn't buy anything these people are selling, lawsuits or not.

thread source
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/14383-re-that-defies-all-rational-thinking?page=2

Kaish and Taub has nothing to do with 316 Bowery building or 2 Bleecker. Please use a different thread.

Documentation and cross trails to addresses in transactions clearly show Kaish and Taub involved in this property some way. All researchable online through google and Acris.

For example, in the release of assignment of leases and rents by the bank in the recent sale of unit 2, it lists the stillwell ave address in jersey for 316 owners corp.

Then google the address and the name Taub and the third google hit shows you some cache from a propertyshark hit so you dont even have to look it up in propertyshark;

"Owner of 2 Bleecker St Manhattan, New York - PropertyShark Owner ...
www.propertyshark.com/mason/Owners/Building/NY/Manhattan/2.../6558419 Stillwell Ave FORT LEE, NJ. Title Documents. 11/2/2009, Party one ... C/O Kaish & Taub New York, New York, NY. UCC1. 12/26/2007, Borrower ..."

But please, if you have contrary evidence, do provide........

Otherwise Id focus on the other problems this property your trying to sell has, like the high taxes and the conflicting square footage. :O

correction; sale of unit 4 not 2

"Kaish got his start in family’s construction business before founding Kaish & Taub in 2000 with Leonard Taub. The firm is currently working on several mixed-use developments, including the restoration a 19th century-building on Manhattan’s Bowery and Bleecker Streets that will become a residential condominium"
http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/03/30/from-luxury-condo-plans-to-brink-of-foreclosure/

Is that "the other" 19th century building on bowery and bleecker?

I personally lost quite a large some of money investing with this co. and am meeting with a lawyer this morning to discuss joining a lawsuit already in the works against 278 Gramercy et al claiming fraud. I at least would like an accounting of where the money went and if I cannot get one then will find out where. If you're in the same boat, join us-- contact Kevin Tung KKT Law Firm Queens Crossing Business Center
136-20 38th Avenue, Suite 3D
Flushing, NY 11354
ph: 718 939 4633
fax: 718 939 4468
ktung@kktlawfirm.com

Sorry to hear that Azemaitis.
It's been a while but from docs I recall, it made me think a lot of their "friends" may have gotten Madoffed.
Were you in before any of these threads on them were around or did you just not see them?

Good luck to you though I doubt there is enough pie left to go around.

Sadly put in 6 yrs. ago before the threads. Anyway, any other investors out there may want to consult with Kevin Tung, KKT Law Firm, as I've now joined this lawsuit as of a few months ago. Others may want to, as well, in my opinion:
http://www.law360.com/articles/387966/investors-sue-developer-over-botched-101m-nyc-project

You have to sign up for that. What is the claim for?

It's a federal case, so not on eCourts. I'll dig it up when I get home.

Their old website is still up: http://www.kaish.com/investors.html

I don't get how anybody thought a "combined 20 years of experience" in NYC RE was worth mentioning.

That site is a hoot. It's a snapshot of the bubble, frozen at 2008. The projects, the stock photos of guys in square-toed bozo shoes shaking hands, everything. The site even has music.

Here's the complaint against Kaish/Taub/et al.: http://bit.ly/1a2wQTa

(azemaitis, that's the complaint before you and Miguel were added as plaintiffs. The court hasn't posted that version yet.)

Investors were promised an 87% cash-on-cash return, IIRC.