Why EVER buy?

Also, the lady interviewed for this article is hilarious....she paid a hugely inflated 5.4million for her 1 bedroom!?! apartment and expected to be able to flip it 2 years later for 8.4 million?! Fantasy land...these days are OVER. I'd expect by the time this is all said and done she MAY be able to get about 1 mil for it since the building is well known.

above post meant for a different thread! http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/9391-manhattan-home-prices-to-drop-most-since-80

Now talk amongst yourselves about the original topic :)

I think it will make sense to buy when the cost of renting exceeds the cost of buying, but not until then. Even with the slide in prices, there is still a big disconnect between buying and renting. I, for one, love nyc and I'm not looking to move. Also, most people with school-age kids want stability, and don't want to be nomads.

as a real estate broker i have often been wondering if what I sell makes any sense... and, after many years and following my buyers in the course of two decades, I arrived to the conclusion that buying real estate in manhattan does make a lot of sense
a) in the very long term (say 20 years)
b) only if you buy condos that you can rent out without dealing with moronic board of directors so that you keep a certain flexibility in your life style
c) you must buy well below your ability to pay so that owning should not be a struggle.
I.E. if you buy and live in a 1 bedroom and you could afford to rent a 2 bedroom, the sacrifice will pay handsomely overtime...
In the short / medium term, Anon 3 is 300% right specially if you buy above your point of extreeme comfort, that is you should buy less space than you can afford

A Google Books search will turn up interesting articles from 1920s architectural journals about buying vs. renting. The original idea was that you'd get a better apartment and would be protected against future scarcity-induced rent increases, with appreciation a *possible* benefit. The cost of the money invested was less than the difference between rent and maintenance, so the monthly nut would be less when buying than renting.

When this type of thinking starts to take hold broadly, it will be time to buy again.

"moronic board of directors"

Here, here!

Vivaldi, per Broker Code of Ethics, you need to disclose your identity when posting, so please do so that you are not in jeopardy of losing your license

Ughhhhhh--Not again... The exact same thread shows up every 72 hours, it seems. Nothing new ever gets added, and it's like listening to your grandma tell you the EXACT same stories over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and OVER!

Flexibility in living actually leads to better productivity in communities...

"moronic board of directors"

It is funny how those moronic boards have kept the coops in this city in better shape than the condos, due to upholding higher standards. Call them morons if you like, but they have saved a lot of people from a worse fate.

Obviously, there are advantages of buying esp on the long-term. One obvious benefit is the fact that the place is yours and your kids and their kids can inherit it. But it is not worth to buy when it's way over what you can afford now because you'll obviously be slaving yourselves in the near future. I think by the 10th, 20th year, the monthly mortgage should be in your realm of affordability. You should at least be moving up in your career or getting salary increases. If not, that's a problem.

"On the other hand if you rent, it is easy to move for a better career opportunity, or to have a lower paying job if you want to get out of the rat race."

So if you rent, that means you can work at McDonald's. Is that what your saying?

Buy low -- sell high -- all assset classes have their day...

It means its a lot easier to take the CEO job in London when you don't have a co-op that you can only rent out for 2 years.

Most people on this board clearly can't afford to buy even if they wanted to. So, they definitely should NEVER consider buying. Thanks. Good bye.

See you at the outlets, with your "Supercuts" haircuts--because no one should buy anything unless it's at a heavy discount, and it is silly to pay more than $7 for a haircut. Sure. You are absolutely right, and no one is allowed to disagree with that!

duvravcic --> bitter owner

(i guess, i'm a bitter owner, too)

Malthus has it right. The best time to buy is when everyone has thrown in the towel. Right now sellers are still unrealistic. Buyers have no incentive to buy and there is no clarity in NYC RE market. Without clarity there is no market. I want to see a sharp spike in listings, panic sales and the real estate shills finally throwing in the towel. In a word, capitulation. So far the NY Times has refused to write the truth about NYC RE as the classified ads are still a major source of their ever dwindling income. don't want to offend the Corcorans of this world. Two weeks ago we were treated to an article telling us the real estate market had bottomed. I am looking for a lead article with the real estate bears calling for devastation and where the fact-free heads of the big brokerage houses go unquoted. That will a clear sign to buy.

media articles should not play a role in your decision to buy your most expensive asset. I mean, if you had diabetes, would you take advice from Sanjay Gupta on television?

because rents keep going up, up, up.

alpine i day trade for a living. the media are a great counter trend indicator. in the past 6 months if you had listened to idiots like suze orman or jim cramer you've had lost tons of money. conversely i actually subscribe to cramer's newsletter. why? he is a perpetual bull and i get great short ideas from him. he has recently gone bearish a sure signal the stock market has bottomed.

there are other factors to consider. what i describe above are sentiment indicators. there are also breadth indicators to be considered. for example price to rents ratios, price to income ratios, rate at which listings are increasing etc. taken as a whole one can buy near a bottom. right now none of the indicators are flashing buy. at best some are neutral, most are bearish, indicating to me a further fall in prices. coupled with the velocity at which prices and frankly everything now moves i think we will see prices move aggressively lower this summer. the new democratization of information by this and similar websites is helping to move this market to equilibrium.

julia...what are you doing here? have you seen the thread for you?

Vanderveen -- Waiting for Godot is coming to Broadway -- Nathan Lane, Bill Irwin. John Goodman. You should get some tix from TKTS. Beckett did call it a tragicomedy for a reason.

"Nothing happens, nobody comes, nobody goes, its awful" -- S. Beckett.