Disaster at the Rushmore

Reiselamerica, so did you flip 4 times on RSB in the last 4 yrs... that seems to be an awful lot of moving considering Trump didn't start until early 2000... so 4x in 8 yrs? Do you own a moving company?

Yes I own a moving company and I would be delighted to get you to move in the cell next to your friend Berny for free.

that's an "ie" not a "y."

i live in a basement in OKC. How is it people like moi' who said I can't handle a mortgage that's greater than $2MM w/o really just lying about my income or taking an IO mortgage for 3 yrs? Plz explain Reiselamerica?

How about you do this, if your lawsuit has such merit, close and then sue... I'll respect you the next morning.

I'm quite sure w67thsteet knows who I mean but thank you.

Jimstreeteasy said "I don't understand the market in NY (sorry, haven't lived there for a few years, but moving back soon)". If you don't live here/haven't lived here for a while, why do you post so often & with such a know-it-all tone?

W67 is right:
"the Rushmore is the pinnacle of why we are here. Here are some relevant facts:
1) Easy credit;
2) buyers not honoring their contracts;
3) Unrealistic income/Debt and Debt/Equity, CF/Debt payments on home purchases;
4) Buyers whose jobs/income are questionable;
5) No due-diligence on the part of buyers/lenders/developers;
6) lack of counter-party risk assessment; "

Plus, it is always, always a risk to buy pre-construction. Always better to wait to buy until after it's built so you can actually see what you're buying.

I have sympathy for those who bought & want to live here as their home. Not so much for flippers who play the market.

I'm looking to buy...at some point.

I didn't disagree with the SUBSTANTIVE analysis except in one respect, as I have explained, there could be a logical basis for a deal betw/ depositors and the developer. That has nothing to do with breaking a contract (and I posted a long explanation of why bogus contract claims are bad for society, etc. and some people jumped on me).

I don't claim to know all the rules in nyc, and have asked a ton of questions on here.

The main thing I truly don't get in NYC market-wise is how people got convinced such insane prices made sense...but who knows, mayb I undervalue NYC cachet and cool-building cachet.

Do you disagree that posting about your mother, gloating at people's misfortune is basically wacko and in appropriate? I think people should argue on the merits, which I do.

My know it all tone re market trend is based on a strongly held view,that I have long had, that nyc prices were in a bubble. But maybe I am wrong, although many on here tend to have that view, it seems.

> The main thing I truly don't get in NYC market-wise is how people got convinced such insane prices made sense

People don't justify an absolute level of prices; they just believe whatever the price is continues to benefit from then-current positive factors (empty nesters, oil money, strong foreign currencies, supply constraint on the island [which isn't true at all compared to other cities when you consider vertical construction])- all the typical BS

Agreed, so now returning to fundamentals.

people get sucked in by bubbles...endlessly...don't overthink it...I'm sure you know about the tulips...been trying to tell you...in general people are neither logical nor rational....we are emotional beings.

"My know it all tone re market trend is based on a strongly held view,that I have long had, that nyc prices were in a bubble"

Jim, like columbia said: Tulips. Lotsa people saw the bubble & refused to play.

"The main thing I truly don't get in NYC market-wise is how people got convinced such insane prices made sense"
Tulip mania also hit California & Florida.

RE bubbles are not new:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_land_boom_of_the_1920s
"Florida land boom of the 1920s: The story includes many parallels to the modern real estate boom, including the forces of outside speculators, easy credit access for buyers, and rapidly-appreciating property values."

i swear im not a broker. Thats right the people on the thread thinks the world is ending and they hate the Rushmore for no apparent reason. So since I support this city, the neighborhood and the quality building that = corcoran broker....... get over yourselves. if these are the type of negative people that are going to live in this building then I should definitely factor that into the building I buy in....

your point?

"buyers not honoring their contracts"...again with the moralizing. you pay the deposit for the right to take it or leave it. beyond this truism, the buyers in this case have LITERALLY explained that what they signed and placed a deposit on was a purchase OPTION. OPTION. OPTION.

PS: Whoever thinks space on the West Side Highway next to the projects is going to bottom at $1000/ft... For people who were looking to spend $1700/ft there were much better ridiculously overpriced spaces to choose from...Over there isn't even it the trendy Hell's Kitchen nor it tacky Lincoln Square. The disHONOR here is actually selling people $4000 rental 2 beds for $1.8mm bucks. Its a joke. Our schools are failing us in this country. On a 15% down payment how much were you paying for the privilege of living there....Where was the discount for being ahead of neighborhood change in the dream scenario that the bubble would never pop?

but he swears he's not a broker. i swear that he didn't get through 10th grade english.

Whoooah! There has been so much solid, thoughtful analysis and exchange here, it's a shame to see it spiral down to name calling and recriminations. So far, the Rushmore's sales office says they've 'closed' on 10 units, that more are scheduled now that the Easter/Passover breaks are over. Within a week or two, they expect to get a temporary C of O for the next several floors, and, they say, will be closing more units, including the first ones in the tower. One may find that there is more angst among buyers of the lower floors and smaller apartments, which usually are snapped up by investors looking for a flip, rather than a 1st or 2nd home. They also claim to have sold a few units even in this negative economy. No one is denying that the economy has impacted the sales and will impact closings -- there will be buyers who c-a-n n-o-t close because they lost jobs or financing or both. That's different from those who do not want to close because they overpayed in a declining market, as many have pointed out here. I suggest that if we do not start seeing increased closings in the next few weeks then the negative analysis is justified. On the hand, if we start seeing accelerated closings into May and June, then the naysayers may have to revise their predictions of doom. And unless Extell and its Big Brother private equity firm partner implode, which of course is possible, there does not appear to be any reason for Extell to renegotiate signed option agreements. Either way, the numbers will tell the story. Why get personal and nasty? What's the benefit?

Now I have a question: Does any one have any solid information regarding lawsuits by buyers in other new developments? There has been suggestions that developers violated some 40 year old federal law, though the same article suggested there are about 20 exceptions. Where in the legal food chain are these complaints? Will it take a year to reach a judge or are settlements being offered and made?

"there does not appear to be any reason for Extell to renegotiate signed option agreements."

Sure there is. The fewer units sold, the more difficult it will be for prospective buyers to get financing.

since when did large corporations act rationally? i've said it dozens of times here "who wants to be the executive in the meeting and raises his/her hand and suggests the real magnitude of the problem?" just doesn't work that way. the pain will have to be experienced before anyone can attempt to react sensibly.

I didn't say they would...just that's a valid reason for them to consider renegotiating price. Also valid would be to refuse to renegotiate, and assume enough people just can't stomach leaving a deposit behind, however rational it might be to do so.

Who knows what lurks in the minds of developers? (The Shadow!) But I thought the issue of getting financing involves at least 70% of units being in contract -- not being closed -- otherwise what new development could ever get financing (chicken and egg?). Offering discounts to existing buyers who are forced to default because of economic hardship probably won't change the hard facts on the ground. I am not sure how many buyers will walk away from 15% deposits unless their attorneys can give them solid hope of prevailing in court. That's probably a crap shoot at best.

momentum and numbers are growing for the disgruntled buyers at The Rushmore. It is been said that different deals were made at the time of purchase. Many people initially got a 12% discount...some even more. Others got nothing. Now it has been discovered that new buyers are being offered 18% discount from the actual prices. Very disturbing

Go for it bds. The harsh truth is -- all the depositors represent the only way they can fill a lotof these units anytime soon, so they should make a deal. But...logic may not work...and, be careful depositors, don't buy unless you get a great discount.

thank goodness for the comic relief that you are continually providing. do you have any idea how many times you've made the same post? and every time, I'm going to say the same thing: consider yourself lucky.

lol....By now columbia these people probably do consider themselves lucky. Think of it as therapy. It takes a while to "accept" something like this, losing a chunk of cash. I have friends who bought at market peak, who told themselves they will ride it out, and they are not following SE, but I think someday they may focus on just how bad this is, and get very stressed, and there is little they can do, but feel regret, since they can't walk away with a 10-15% loss.

Who is this NOBODY with a big mouth " w67th "
I bet you, he's unemployed, fat and ugly, eating his burgers bc his honey is not cooking for him.
Such guys deserve an ex wife (like his) taking them to the cleaners. I love it.
...but he has no guts to show his face, just a big mouth.

weaselamerica, I'm such a nobody that I personally know the Samsung executive that is walking away from his $500K deposit :) at the rushmore :)

Who talks like that? Nobody, then I must be SOMEBODY! LMAO. So here is your definition of NOBODY:
1) Unemployed;
2) Fat;
3) Ugly;
4)Wife doesn't cook;
5) Divorced.

holy cow, you just described every single buyer at Rushless! You gotta be fat, cause your main source of income in the last 8 years has been sitting on one sofa to another while flipping, 2) The flipping has stopped so you are unemployed; 3) I'm sure most people when they walk by you on the street consider you ugly (whatever that means); 4) no matter how well you cook, if you blew $500K of my hard earned money, I ain't getting it up for you old lady ; 5) you do know financial distress is the leading cause of divorce, don't you?

Good luck with the Rush thing, see you on the other side of the food line... I usually volunteer at Sacred Heart 52nd... ask for a second helping even though you could lose a little.....

I think the Samsung exec would be ashamed to be associated with someone with a character like yours - whatever you do, just don't say his name!

w67thst. Your attack is so outrageous towards Reiselamerica, I will have difficulty listening to you from this point on...even when you make valuable, thought provoking, comments.

This Rushmore thread seemed to have hit a nerve with him. I'd not be surprised if he worked at the Cocoran sales office - and now very nervous that he won't be getting his commission b/c buyers are walking. Otherwise, it is hard to reason why he seem so personally offended by all of this.

Just seems like w67 has so much anger directed specifically at disgruntle buyers at the Rushmore.

The BIG MOUTH just talks but as I said no guts to show his face.
I'm willing to walk away from my down payment but this big mouth just
talks the talk, bla, bla, bla
If you are a man show your face. (most likely he's not even a man :)

I haven't seen any workers on site (and my apt overlooks the site, so I can look several times daily) for a week or two, and then it was only a handful. Still missing windows, missing giant cement facades off the tops of both towers, no equipment around for installing these, garbage and debris from the very active building going up in the lot south of Rushmore. I walked into the Avery lobby the other day and it does look like an understaffed building, as someone said on here. The Rushmore doorman couldn't even produce a biz card for the sales office and asked if I was interested in renting or buying. Anyone know for sure what happened to work progress? Has Extell's financing ended? It just seems nuts to be what looks like 95% complete on the exterior and bail. From the lights that are left on, it looks like nothing is in on the insides. I may just walk in with a really low all-cash offer and see what bites...

please go into the bldg and report back to see if they bite on low all-cash offer. Also see if you can get any info from the doorman (the truth mind you, not the company line). And then report back! Thanks

and while you're at it...go to the liquor store at the corner of 70th & amsterdam, ask for manny and get the latest stock tips...hurry, hurry, report back immediately before market opening. make sure to tell manny you want the straight dope, not the company line. be sure to report back. quickly!

I'm in contract on 38CD, 7.4mm.

mrasj1627 - if you are concerned about your purchase in the building and would like to join a private buyers discussion board, please email rushmoreresidents@gmail.com

A large group of us have been in contact to discuss our situations.

I visited Rushmore sales twice. The building looks very nicely done. Extell clearly chose quality designers and architects, but I was really put off by a few things. First the Corcoran sales people are very opaque in their presentation especially when the sales effort first started and they absolutely refused to provide the prospectus without first signing a sales agreement. Corcoran stated the same policy to me when I visited another of their locations. Many of these sales people believe they are doing you a favor by allowing you to buy an apartment. They should have more respect for their clients. Real estate for many is the single biggest investment they will ever make. The marketing firm which handled Trump Place was much more professional, open and courteous. I hear too much bashing of Trump on these websites, Hudson Waterfront and Trump have produced several world class buildings on Riverside Blvd. The real problem with Rushmore is that's its just priced too high relative to the competition. The views on many of the units are not as good as what you could get in nearby buildings and Rushmore is not located in the Upper West side. The buildings prices were aggressive when first set and conservatively 25% above market. I can't see how a gulf that wide is negotiable. One could walk from a deposit and buy a nearby apt and still come out ahead. Sure these apartments have brand new sub zero appliances but that's too easily duplicatable by visiting your neighborhood P.C. Richards. Paying 2.5 million for a 1500 square foot apartment with a view of a concrete lot outside ABC studio is just nuts.

If you're not joking, mrasj - congrats - I love the CD tower units.

Riversider, that is why and many other reasons, there is an uproar over those of us that are still in contract. The arrogance of Extell has turned so many of us off, and those of us that were delighted to buy in that bldg. have had second thoughts...that it why our group grows each and every day.

w67thstreet -- About that Samsung exec... Without giving away any privacy issues, when was he scheduled to close? So far, Rushmore has been closing only on the first group of temp c/o -- up to the 12th floor. The sales office says the next group to the temp c of o will bring it into the towers. On the higher floors, say above 25, closings aren't expected 'till late summer, into the fall. What I'm suggesting is, the Samsung exec has not yet walked away, and when push comes to shove, losing a half-million dollars may cause him/her some pause, unless his personal financial situation give him/her no choice but to walk away. From what I have read, no one has actually walked away from their deposit yet.

MJRASJ -- Isn't 38CD one of the penthouse units?

mlwest, I don't wish ill on you or anyone else. But I see that 11 units have closed, from the 3rd to the 6th floors. Unless I am grossly mistaken, the apartments on those floors run A-Y, which would be 25 apartments per floor, or 100 apartments. maybe extensions are being given to some buyers so they can try to obtain financing, but I just don't see how it could be possible that of those 89 units nobody has walked.

No, CD tower units are not identical to Penthouse units. The footprint is slightly different, and the penthouse units don't have libraries with bathroom (they have a larger foyer instead). CD units are 4brs+ lib. All the penthouse units seem to have fireplaces in the living room.

The location totally kills it for me. The layouts are not bad, but I just can't be on Riverside s. of 72nd, it's very far from Bway down there, lack of services/shops.

I interrupt this discussion for a sanity check. This building was overpriced for the location at the peak of the market. As such 15% is nothing. It sounds like it was at least 10% overpriced to a peak that is now 25% off and falling. The building will never offer you 35% discount, and as such, you all should clearly walk away. Any hope of neighborhood improvement that might have driven a purchase in that location has been pushed many years into the future given economic conditions. This is a bad romantic breakup story. Its time to admit it wasn't you, it was me, or vice versa, the time wasn't right, you're not over your ex, etc. etc. etc. Call Extell and tell them you are willing to rent your apartments.

precisely...

lets recall that tina fey just bought a 10 room apartment at 74 & wea for $3.4 million. yeah, i know its not overlooking the river but i'll trade the view for the convenience. and its 10 rooms and it has two fireplaces and its not in the middle of an endless construction site...and when you walk out the front door, you aren't confronted with the west side highway. and, its $3.4 million

It baffles me, but there are always going to be some people who want "new construction" - now it remains to be seen how they'll hold their values in a recession/depression.

I need to talk to that Samsung guy. It kind of baffles me that once you get up above $5mm you'd not want a brownstone. Wow, $3.4mm actually sounds kind of modest for Tina Fey. They cannot hold their values well... Clearly they flew much higher than coops because you have a much larger set of buyers when you offer a 10% down option without a coop board. Now that banks are sphincter clenched, forget it. I wonder what the 'normal' spread between coops and condos was in the 1990s. The premium has to have blown out in 2006-2007. I keep talking and they keep asking $1500/ft though. Maybe they are afraid to ink deals at levels that would broadcast to banks how underwater the project are. There has to be some explanation here that's being missed.

Single-family brownstones require a lot more effort in upkeep than a doorman apt. Not to mention the dislike of most people for vertical living. The market for a full-service apt in the same price range as a bstone has always been much larger in Manhattan.

Ever live in a co-op? Even if you qualify, co-op boards are a PITA. You have no idea...

Nope. I didn't have enough money before 2006, and luckily I bailed on all of several near-purchase experience. A couple of those were for reason of coop shadiness.

Tina F will probably sink another 1m into renovations (and why not?) Her current apt was mint condition when she purchased.

The news is worse, In the current market lenders want 70% of the units presold before they will approve financing. And sold units that are not occupied by the owner do not count toward this threshold.

If you are a buyer with a deposit on one of these apartments, can you even be confident it will be 70% sold if you want to sell it in four years? Weight losing 15% vs. the total value falling 60% and literally never being able to afford to leave.

There is one last issue that I have not heard brought up. If any closed units are highly leveraged and default , the remaining unit owners will eat the unpaid common charges. I would think a discount to fair market would be necessary to entice new buyers. There are just too many risks. This is not the fault of Extell. The building looks awesome, but the financial risks coupled with the high asking prices just don't add up.

Regarding the little park adjacent to the Rushmore:

Several commenters in a previous thread [ http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/10229-rushmore-buyers-attention ] stated that there was little possibility that the developer who owns the park (Brodsky) could indeed sell the park space or develop it themselves.

Well.....

Take a look at what is happening to a similar park on the East Side of town:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04272009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/east_side_park_fury_166408.htm

Very similar circumstances to the neighborhood rumor that was floating around the Rushmore area, that the developers of the West End Ave. rental buildings had been given an abatement in exchange for the developer providing the park... but once the agreement times out, the park is up for grabs.

If that block were built on, it sure would spoil a lot of views.

I found it incredibly annoying that the Rushmore advertises open houses for the 4bm+ apartments, but then when you went to the open house, they said they would show 1 and 2 bdrms. I found the building broker to be very arrogant at a time when they can probably use all the help they could get. I think the building looked nice, but cant deal with top of the market tactics and attitudes

Rock1 - that's because the sales people at the Rushmore (for the most part, there are some much older senior corcoran sunshine folks there) have not seen a down market and probably thinks this is a blip and that Obama will help pull the economy out of this slump by taxing the people who can actually afford to buy in this building!

Sorry for not keeping up with the Rushmore disaster... it looks great from edgewater :), been driving the snot out of my new used 997 Turbo... that thing is a true beast on the road and my golf swing needed a little tweaking.

mlwest, I spoke to him 3 months ago, who knows... maybe he's decided to join the "Rushmore" gonna get together to not sue group? shrug.

bds, sometimes I felt like the lone voice of reason the last 5 yrs as people took out IO loans, 100% financing, brokers making more than damn smart internists/surgeons, and asking WTF is America producing and consuming (apparently alot of salad shooters). This morning I walked by a van that I know was being used as a home with a 3 or 4 yo playing in the front seat, I dropped $100 bill and kept walking, so you'll excuse me if I look at an imbecile that loses 10% of his $5MM "home," and cries about it on SE. Consider yourself lucky that you are not "all-in."

In finance we had Reg D, that basically states a person w/ a large net worth "must" know what he/she is doing and can take care of him/herself, if you are putting down $500K as just a down payment, I would've expected you to ask the hard questions that I would have asked;
1) what are the risks of buying in a new development?;
2) what happens if market takes a nose-dive?;
3) does the developer have the financing to finish construction?
4) are my views protected?
5) if developer does not deliver on amenities, finishes, promise date, what is my recourse?
6) can I afford to lose the downpayment?
So bds, streeteasyfan, weaselamerica, did ya?

weaselamerica, I am sorry that your ability to personally attack an anonymous poster didn't get past 1st grade.... I know my calling, it's to teach my 5yo to NOT sound like a 3yo imbecile ranting w/o any basis in fact or humor.

FWIW, I went to the open house and took a nice dump, but was very disappointed that in order to cut costs they only had one ply paper.

OH, streeteasyfan, you think maybe this thread and the fact you're getting every single person in contract to discuss your "options," that "NEW" buyers maybe taking a pass on the Rushmore until your lawsuit winds its way thru the system? :)

I'm not "thinking" - I know no new buyers are as stupid as we all were. perhaps you missed the fact that only a few units have been sold this year as DRASTIC discounts?

You are a coward to hide under your screen name, except you've already dropped too many hints about your identify. And god, I really hope you don't have children, you don't deserve to be someone's role model.

streeteasyfan... now that it's springtime... every thursday evening at edgewater driving range... lower deck if I'm using my driver and upper if I'm just working on my irons.. .towards the southside... 997Turbo... see ya there.

Oh... BTW I believe Hitler believed in having a say in other people's offsprings. Good luck with that.

streeteasyfan... did ya ask the questions?

"I'm not "thinking." That says alot. Not thinking b/f buying and not thinking now in contract... not gonna think when your attorney asks if you want to sue? Not gonna do it, nope not gonna think this thru.... you've got a lot to teach your kids... good luck with that also.

w67 - i think you mis-read my post. the "thinking" is in relations to your remark. My response was "I know." Anyways, this is a waste of time...

shoulhavebeenastreeteasyfanearlier... .I'm gonna let this go, but me thinkz my reading comprehension was 670... what was your writing test score? Read what you wrote again in context or our back and forth.... peace out 2x!

OH.... Danny Pang... another Madoff exposed... :)

Those contemplating worse case might want to look at the history of a neighborhood building put up at the height of the last real estate cycle, three lincoln. Like Rushmore, it's a very nice building which happpened to be a victim of bad timing. But as all can see years later it is doing quite well.

http://www.rosenyc.com/RoseCorporate/cs_3lincolncenter.asp

Riversider... agree in 15 yrs... it's doing fine..... mmmmmm.... let's just say we all have 30 prime years (20, 30 and 40s).... so if you planned it wrong... 1/2 of your prime years is spent underwater. I guess it's okay -shrug-

except that in 15 or so more years the boomers will be selling their homes. check out the nifty population chart. makes my geeky heart go all warm and fuzzy.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/04/us-homeownership-by-age-group.html

hello aboutready :)

riversider.. p.s. it took the greatest RE bubble in the history of NYC to bail out the original purchasers of 3 lincoln... love the pool though :) and it's interesting that building is so enormous that it's got separate banks of elevators.... :)

There is much too much schadenfreude on this thread. My assumption is that the building is over priced by about 25% relative to the neighborhood. You can subtract from that a full 10 year tax abatement, relatively low real estate taxes for the product and low common charges. If you have a window of greater than five years on an annualized basis it's not horrible and in the mean time you enjoy a great building and a great location. The big risk is underwater owners with no equity walking from their responsibilities exposing the remaing residents to unpaid common charges.

give me a break...25%? not 22%, not 27%...ridiculous. uncertainty. thats what its all about. none of us has a clue as to what the hell is happening or going to happen. 25%? what are you basing that on? your oujia board? what does enjoy a great building mean? how do you enjoy a building? perhaps like other posters here, you stare at the facade and ? huh? i've lived in ny my entire life---we have a great apartment. we've enjoyed life-- not our apartment or god forbid our building.

http://news.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view/2009_04_28_Condo_buyers_sue_elusive_builder/srvc=home&position=also

Very interesting, Riversider, thanks for sharing.

Riversider -- Well, that is interesting...

river: great article
this all seems to make sense now, remember, Boston, Harvard, are ground zero for what ails the real estate world and the economy in general. Who gives a crap if a couple of smart RE guys are screwing a couple of their classmates, sounds like incest to me. Remember the old Boston saying, "incest is best, put your brother to the test"

Well, that is all I needed to see. Goodbye and good luck to all; I will stick to 10 West End Ave and other RSB buidlings NOT being sued for taking deposits and not delivering the units...too bad I will miss the aggressive rebuttals from the posters who may/may not be Corcoran agents...what a shame.

ACRIS just listed a closing taking place for 20% under initial offering price.

Thanks for letting us know, Riversider. Just confirms what we already know.

Out of the 12 closings now on ACRIS only 2-3 closed at full price (that is, we can't tell if Extell didn't also pay closing costs). Not looking good...

Effects on lender appraisals? Anyone?

riversider, i'm wondering how often it's made it to that point. i've been wondering the same thing. many lenders can just say no to a building, or request 40 or more down to cover a potential decline and hold their nose and accept a dubious appraisal. But it seems as if this has got to become an issue, and soon. jonathan miller, where are you???

It's amazing the sheer volume of units for sale on Riverside Blvd.

I count 168 units on the market in 100, 120, 200, 220, & 240.

This doesn't count any of what is available in the Rushmore and what will eventually be available at 60 Riverside. How are these all going to clear the market?

It is interesting that in 200, 220, and 240 prices are racing to $1000 psf and below. These are probably the highest quality buildings (certainly far nicer finishes than the Avery) and also in the far, far preferable PS 199 zone. I guess the difference is just owner's basis.

It seems that anything south of 66th will only clear below the $1,000 psf level.

Anyone know who extell's construction lender is?

Hypo Construction, The German lender that's making headlines due to state nationalization. Interesting side note. It appears that Extell cross collateralized Avery & Rushmore.

Riversider, what does that mean to cross collateralize both the Avery and the Rushmore? What is the impact of that to us in contract at the Rushmore?

Is it that the loans cover both buildings? That came up earlier.

10069's point is right on track. If you live on the Blvd, regardless of which building you think is better the sheer volume of supply hitting the market cannot be good news. Sellers are starting to blink.

relax, the area is justing filling in a bit which is needed. Prices will be well above $1,200 psf in the area. Lets just hope the retail follows (as it would in normal times, which is where we are heading sooner than later

So they borrowed over 600m. How many units have they closed? Hmm.

I think that Hypo has no cojones. They have a chance now to get repaid if they can just butt heads with Carlyle and Extell and convince them to take what they can get (still a pretty penny). Hypo will get made whole. I don't know why the Krauts aren't jumping up and down the throats of Carlyle to close more units. If 700m or 600m is all that they borrowed, the shareholders of Hypo still have a chance to be made substantially whole.

Rushmore has closed a handful of the lowest value apartments in the building. That action would trigger a default.

and probably not allowed under the terms of the loan.

nyc10023- are you kidding me? hypo is in the process of being nationalized and the german government is currently going head to head with jc flowers, a private equity group that has a lot more at stake than the likes of carlyle (to the tune of $1.4 billion). hypo will eventually be nationalized and the german government will be ruthless in its effort to recoup its investment by any means possible including mass foreclosures. you will start to see the same thing happen in the US once the talf program gets under way and the government grows tired of the banks continued capitulation over what to do with their problem loans.

Where have all the closings gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the closings gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the closings gone?
Brokers have picked them every one
When will they ever learn...?

just went to a community board meeting where Extell spoke and presented the park plans. They are doing very strong with these projects and will deliver an incredible product to the area sooner than you all think. Stop thinking the world is coming to an end... this area of Manhattan will be like a residential Rock Center in a few years. Those that are buyin there congrats and welcome to the great neighborhood!!!!!!!!!!!

this area of Manhattan will be like a residential Rock Center in a few years

Streets, Assuming you are correct that they will build a beautiful product. I don't necessarily disagree. But one needs to separate what is good for Extell vs what is good for the buyer. Simple analyses. The $1400 dollar per square foot apt is now worth $1100(feel free to change these numbers). Let's add to that closing costs on both ends of say 10%. Assuming a buyer has a 5 year time horizon, what price appreciation on a per year basis are you projecting.

Saying they are delivering an amzing product and the world isn't coming to an end doesn't address whether this is a good investment. To put it another way, I may believe that Pitney Bowes will produce good quality machines, and won't go out of business, but I don't necessarily believe the companies earnings will grow @ 15% over the next five years.

Your argument sounds too much like a broker marketing piece.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/380565-condo-80-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

what is up with this listing? are these people trying to flip before they even close? can you say screwed?

extell seems to be giving a 12% discount. very, very few closings.

Broker add who acted as principal. I guess if you are willing to spend enough money you get the sponsor to wave the "can't resell for one year" stipulation. Great link A.R. 15 MILLION DOLLARS? Let's see the owner would have to be beyond rich, let's say wealthy. A wealthy person would not put more than ballpark 10% of their money into an asset. So this buyer risked 15% of his purchase price as a deposit to flip it to a buyer who has more than $150,000,000 net worth. Sounds crazy!

I wonder ... Who on this board has a financial stake in the Rushmore? That is, who has put money down and is trying to figure out next steps, and who are armchair real estate analysts sniping from the sidelines? Seems there are a lot of angry people, but angry because they feel they've overpaid? Or are they trying to jawbone the market down to their advantage? And the more would-be buyers or people who have signed option agreements back off, the better for buyers of other, less expensive properties, too, though they may have no stake whatsoever in the Rushmore per se, nor ever intend to buy there? In other words, is all the sniping a tactic to gain advantage, general anger at the system, or only debate and analysis?

all of the above. this was such a large development and in a location loved by some and disliked by others with that horrible school rezoning issue, it was bound to be a source of speculation and discussion. some people like the downfall of others, whether developers or the people unlucky to be currently making the decision whether or not to go ahead with the purchase. i just think the bursting of the bubble will be both painful and fascinating, and right now this may epitomize where we might be in that process.

To some extent I think Extell has inherited some of the Anti-Trump sentiment associated with Riverside South. Also these boards just invite misanthropic & schadenfreude sentiments. I suspect the percentage of people genuinely looking for information is quite small. I would also think the postings here have little to know market impact.

I don't have a financial stake in the Rushmore. I do own on the UWS, so yes, values there will impact the value of property in some way.

I think the Riverside South dev. (Trump and nonTrump) as whole lacks vision, is uninspired, and there hasn't been any any kind of urban planning vis-a-vis Jane Jacobs.