Kalahari vs. Northside Piers

"nyc10022, this wouldn't come off as merely a spiteful post if you had posted a link or at least a shred of specific info, instead of insipid generalities that seem pretty unfounded."

The bjw agenda reveals itself again!

from the Times...

"The elementary school, P.S. 84, got a D on its 2006-2007 city progress report. Of fourth-graders in the last school year, 27 percent met state standards in reading and 56 percent in math, versus 62 and 74 percent citywide.

Of eighth-graders at John D. Wells High School, 27 percent met standards in reading and 33 percent in math, versus 46 percent in each citywide. In the same building as the junior high, the Academy for Young Writers opened in 2006, now teaching Grades 9 and 10, and planning eventually to serve 11th- and 12th-graders as well.

H.S. 685, El Puente Academy for Peace and Justice, founded in 1993, is small. Its 14 students who took the SAT last year averaged 363 in reading, 343 in math and 348 in writing, versus 441, 462 and 433 citywide."

And, again, there was an entire article in the Times a few months back about parents trying to find school alternatives for their kids in Willamsburg. Can't find the link just yet, but as much as bjw just want folks to think I'm making it up...

He's clearly just got an agenda...

nyc10022, how about links to these Times articles (at least the first one you're using here)? This just comes off as bitter and spiteful.

Also, you're citing 2006-07 reports? Who likes to use outdated stats now? Wow. Here are all the most recent DOE progress reports for 11211:
http://schools.nyc.gov/FindASchool/reportadvancedsearch.htm?level=All&actn=search&geo=3&bbindex=0&dbindex=0&ddindex=0&zipcode=11211&stype=0&sso=0&hszone=0&repname=progressreport&showdist75=1&showspschls=1&netwrkcode=&new=0

You'll notice all the major schools did very well. The high school got an A, PS 132, PS 84 and El Puente, which you cite above, got As. Whoops.

cherrywood, you can stand by your memories, but your personally experiences do not negate the indisputable crime stats, etc. ANd NYC is still the cultural capital of American and the world by a MILE...and NYC does not = Manhattan.

Cherrywood..I'm with you on thinking the 1970s and 80s in NYC were not all bad although I'm happy to live with less fear and violence. You can't completely convince me that if going from "please don't shoot up here" to "smoke free bars" and calorie counts on junk food has made us a better or more interesting city. And I will take Slimes Square back anytime, why the tourists need Applebees, Olive Garden and all the other crappy restaurant chains they have back home when they come to New York is beyond me. Please let a truly scary pimp send them running back to Iowa (especially now that they are just clogging the sidewalks and not spending money).
On the other hand, I wonder how much of our nostalgia for the "good/bad old days" is simply an exhibition of the whistfulness with which the middle aged have always looked back on their youth. Was it really more fun to drink, drug and dance the night away at Area or was it just great being young enough to do that and get up and go to work the next day? Years can put a gauzy pattina on all types of memory--I remember regretting not having experienced a universal war..having listened for years to my parents' talk of life during WWII, common cause, shared sacrifice and all that. (I did come to find out that nostalgia was based on more than talk. Immediately after 9/11 my 80something mother who lived outside the "evacuated" but within the "restricted" zone was very annoyed at her younger neighbors who were in her words "refugeeing" or "hoarding food and supplies". I asked her to come stay with me for a while, and I was attacked with a fury I wish we could have released on Bin Laden. The lessons that generation learned in their 20s never went away. So does that mean when I'm 85 I'll still want to party all night--or at least past 9pm? City girls just seem to find out early....)

I totally believe people in NYC had more fun in the 70s & 80's despite the high crime and lower quality of life. Neighbors looked after each other. Kids had more respect. Parties were parties. I believe in 'The more things change the more they remain the same".

"You'll notice all the major schools did very well. The high school got an A, PS 132, PS 84 and El Puente, which you cite above, got As. Whoops."

You are really good at misreading stats when they don't serve you.
The grades are for improving scores and safety and quality.
And they also weight them according to income.
So thats just relative to a low bar.

The reading rates are low, the actual test scores are low.

And even with the lower standards, John Wells got a C overall.
PS 84 which you seem to dig...

Student Performance... C.

42% of students proficient in English.

If you want to call that "good", well good thing you don't have kids.

John Wells... 27.4% of kids proficient in English. 48% in Math.

Yes, the city might have low standards for poor kids... but thats pretty horrible for a school.

I guess you've bought into the Joel Klein sell, fine...

But where I come from, half the kids can't do math or english... not a good school.

> This just comes off as bitter and spiteful.

And why would I be bitter because you bought in a neighborhood with lousy schools? Oh right, you're another of those "bitter renter" claimants...

Trust me, it feels awful good to see the 30% discounts these days. Awful good.

nyc10022,

bjw2103, believes if W'Burg public schools performance is good his property value will increase WRONG again. Also, he believes by disseminating false information to families summarized by himself and those wanting to start families will make the investment in W'Burg because the public schools performance is "stellar".

nyc10022, as you said before he makes it way to easy.

"You are really good at misreading stats when they don't serve you.
The grades are for improving scores and safety and quality. "

Actually, that seems to apply to you here - I was speaking about the overall grades, which, you know, is more thorough, but cherry-pick one sub-category grade from one or two schools if you have to. And check out the links I'd posted before as well - parents there, as well as parents I've actually spoken to, are quite happy with the schools here. And that's really all I've been trying to say - are these the top schools in the city? No. But they're pretty good, and definitely getting better, which is a great sign. That you're spending this much time and effort to try to bash something I'm saying, when you have no real apparent insight, is a bit sad, no?

"Oh right, you're another of those "bitter renter" claimants..."

Find me one post where I called anyone a "bitter renter." Otherwise you can eat crow. You and your little buddy who loves following you around. Stay classy.

"bjw2103, believes if W'Burg public schools performance is good his property value will increase WRONG again"

Actually mutombo, good schools do help increase property values. That much should be obvious.

bjw2103,

"Actually mutombo, good schools do help increase property values. That much should be obvious."

Stay classy, and this is because your property value has decreased along with your equity, bjw2103, you are truly clueless, stay classy.

"Actually, that seems to apply to you here - I was speaking about the overall grades, which, you know, is more thorough, but cherry-pick one sub-category grade from one or two schools if you have to"

Uh, the overall grades include performance increases (meaning you get an A going from horrible to less than horrible).

Thats not cherry picking, thats leaving off the Klein sugar coating.

Sorry, but when kids CAN'T READ, giving the school an A because more couldn't read the year before?

Again, its a good thing you don't have kids, because you don't know diddly about schools.

Amazing that you can leave LITERACY out of the schools equation.

Well, when you have an agenda.... !

> Otherwise you can eat crow.

Hmmm.. the bubble buyer in a neighborhood in the center of the market crash.

And *I* am eating crow.

Hmmm.. yeah.

Try again, troll.

Cherry picking.

Still ROFTL.

The kids CAN'T READ, but I'm "cherry picking".

"parents I've actually spoken to, are quite happy with the schools here."

Probably the same people who said "buy now or be priced out forever!"

Who needs your kids to read and write... your condo will double in value tomorrow!

Right?

Does anyone know what portion of the apartments in the kalahari were set aside as "affordable housing" -- if that's the correct term in this case. Was it a lottery?

nyc10022,

LMBBAO & ROTFL. Is bjw2103, really that clueless? He really makes it too easy. bjw2103, where's your rebuttal and keep it classy LOL.

nyc10022,

bjw2103, property value and equity will continue to decline for the next 2 yrs at minimum. Is bjw2103, a broker or works with RE on any facet? Maybe a loan officer.

nyc10022, more of your typical bs. The kids can't read? Ok, let's just exaggerate a bit then. There's no agenda here, you're just arguing because you get a kick out of picking fights here.

"Hmmm.. the bubble buyer in a neighborhood in the center of the market crash.
And *I* am eating crow."

Ok, let me know when you find a post where I said what you claimed. Again, typical nyc10022 bs.

"Probably the same people who said "buy now or be priced out forever!"
Who needs your kids to read and write... your condo will double in value tomorrow!"

Ridiculous. As usual.

mutombo, but what about the "blood of jesus against me"? You guys are great.

bjw2103,

keep it classy you bubble mortgage holder.

There he goes again, bjw jumping up and down again, screaming about others "picking fights"...
The hypocrite in usual form!

All because he can't deal with the fact that only 27.4% of kids proficient in English!

And he still says they are good schools!

Oh my lord, what a troll.

nyc10022 (and mutombo, since you're tagging along), it's simple really: are parents going to trust residents and actual parents of children in these schools (and your suggestion that people would put the value of their condo above the education of their children is among the more ridiculous things I've read on this board), as well as encouraging DOE stats, or someone like yourself, who neither lives in the area, nor has children? In the end, any responsible parents should inform themselves and check out the schools firsthand, but it's plainly obvious who's trolling here. Get over yourselves.

bjw2103,

"and your suggestion that people would put the value of their condo above the education of their children is among the more ridiculous things I've read on this board"

We/I did not suggest that people would put the value of their property above the education of their children. I suggested that you would prefer people put the value of their property above the education of their childern because you don't want your property value to decline any further.

"who neither lives in the area, nor has children"
Are you sure???

This post 2 hours ago by you is baseless and without merit stay classy.

mutombo, your pal above clearly suggested this: "Probably the same people who said "buy now or be priced out forever! Who needs your kids to read and write... your condo will double in value tomorrow!" I'm guessing you disagree with him at least. I certainly do not prefer that people put the value of their property over the education of their children - see my previous post: parents should see the schools themselves. Your suggestion is nuts. Perhaps you live in the area and have children, but that comment was directed at nyc, sorry that wasn't clear.

bjw2103,

Your not clever at all, and its fun messing with you.

50% of the Kalahari were set aside for low income. So it was 50% sold BEFORE they opened, but now thy are up to 90%.

> are parents going to trust residents

Wait, if you live near a school your kids don't go to, that suddenly makes your opinion valid?

ROTFL!

> and actual parents of children in these schools

If you did an overall survey, sure, I'd pay attention to it. But only as a part, parent perception - as ANY educator will tell you - is very often WAAAAAAAAY off the mark.

But, in reality, we have you, who knows nothing about schools, talking about the quality level because you have an agenda. So, the opinion of a parent trying to sell the neighborhood, nah, sorry, it can be as garbage as most of your claims.

And, CERTAINLY I'm not going to take anecdotes over LITERACY RATES.

> (and your suggestion that people would put the value of their condo above the education of their
> children is among the more ridiculous things I've read on this board)

Strawman lately?

Once again, bjw caught bsing, so he goes on to full blown lying.

> as well as encouraging DOE stats

Yes, who needs data!

(that must be the catchphrase of the WB math classes!)

"In the end, any responsible parents should inform themselves and check out the schools firsthand"
I don't disagree with visiting firsthand, but ignorance of Math and English rates? You think walking the halls is going to tell you the quality of education? You really don't know diddly.

Again, GREAT thing you don't have kids because you have no idea how to pick a school.

> but it's plainly obvious who's trolling here.

Yes, you, we know that... why do you keep indicting yourself?

And on we go...

"Wait, if you live near a school your kids don't go to, that suddenly makes your opinion valid?"

Certainly more so than yours, as your qualifications are even less noteworthy. I actually frequently interact with people who do send their children to these schools. You're just good at picking fights on here.

"But only as a part, parent perception - as ANY educator will tell you - is very often WAAAAAAAAY off the mark.
But, in reality, we have you, who knows nothing about schools, talking about the quality level because you have an agenda. So, the opinion of a parent trying to sell the neighborhood, nah, sorry, it can be as garbage as most of your claims."

And what exactly makes your perception any better then? You're over-generalizing, in vain, to try to justify your claims. There's no agenda here - I'm not trying to sell anything, and neither are the parents I talk to. Why would they have to sell me on the neighborhood? I already live here. Poor logic.

"And, CERTAINLY I'm not going to take anecdotes over LITERACY RATES."

They're not exactly literacy rates, but nice twist. You're also harping on one stat from one school. Hello, agenda.

bjw2103,

Ms. Cleo, that says "call me now", in that Jamaican accent told me you are pathetic, do you know her? I don't.

I know W'Burg very well and will tell you public schools in District 14 have performed poorly for over 30 years, today, District 14 public schools are still performing poorly. If W'Burg public schools performed at an A+ rate, your property value will not increase ITS OVER NOT ITS NOT OVER.

You clearly have an agenda and that agenda includes praising W'Burg every moment you get as you know where you hold a mortgage. There's no way you are happy with your "purchase" and I say this because of your behavior.

Your not trying to sell anything, BS you would sell your kitchen sink if it would raise your property value. You are very similiar to Barbara Corcorcan LOL. Your too old to say all we want to do is pick fights with you get real...grow up...and keep it sophisticated.

mutombo, it's ok that you enjoy behaving like a jerk, but you're just mistaken on so many things. One, schools in the area are clearly improving: the stats and anecdotes are there. Two, an improving school district will improve property values. Three, I do not praise Williamsburg every chance I get, but like lovesWB, I will respond when someone posts outright wrong or misleading information about the neighborhood. Obviously I really like it here - otherwise, I wouldn't have bought (you seem to forget this often). There are certainly negatives about WB, just as any area. Everyone's got different priorities, so I know many other people would prefer other neighborhoods to settle in. If you think you can judge how happy someone is with their purchase without, you know, actually knowing them, then tell someone to grow up, I can't help but laugh at the irony. But what should I expect from a troll? Get real.

bjw2103,

If district 14 school performed at an A+ rate your property value will not increase in this current economic crisis. Its funny how you dispute public school performance Vs. increased RE value but stay away from higher crime in the neighborhood Vs. decreased RE value but you don't have an agenda.

If schools are improving that is good but the still have poor ratings which is sad since you are the poster boy of WillyB maybe you should stay off SE and fulfill your civic duty and help out the public school system damn bad idea moving forward.

I stand by my conclusion, you are not happy with your purchase because its a depreciating* asset and its not a car.

mutombo, neigborhood's perfectly safe. Do we need to rehash the McCarren Park being "dangerous" story? Anyway, to determine property value (since you're obsessed), you'd need the following bits of info:
*what I paid for my place (you don't know)
*salient details about my building (you don't know)
*what similar units in the building have sold for recently (you don't know)
*size, layout, light, etc. (you don't know)
*what someone would pay for it should I try to sell (you don't know, and frankly, neither do I)
And I'll be on streeteasy as long as I'd like, gracias.

http://gothamist.com/2009/04/10/machete_arrest_in_williamsburg.php

*You did not pay for your place as you are currently paying a mortgage. I know you overpaid for it as you mortgaged during the ballon an abnormal time in US RE because W'Burg reminded you of your college campus. Yes I'm making stuff up now.
*Salient details of your bldg who are you kidding.
*What similiar units in your bldg sold for recently, you can tell me anything like selling your kitchen sink.
*Just comic relief size, layout, light, etc. I know you overpaid and its depreciating so size, layout, light etc don't matter.
*The most hilarious, you will not sell your property at a price equal too or more then what you mortgaged for. I need to stop before you say I'm generalizing but I am generalizing on the collective market. Barbara Corcorcan said "you can ask for what you want it don't mean you're going to get it.

As long as you know how ridiculous you're being.

bjw2103,

The truth has humor.

I've been gone for awhile and haven't had a chance to catch up on all your posts.
Which one of you is winning?

Live in and love the Kalahari. The neighbors are wonderful. Feels like we've been together all our lives. Transportation is great, but I also walk from walk in midtown most days. My only regret is I didn't get outdoor space.

this is a strange thread just from a geography standpoint. i work in soho and for me, i would never consider living uptown or even in harlem. i lived on the upper west side for awhile and the commuting killed me, so no way would i consider harlem. i can walk home to williamsburg and do frequently. also, it just depends if you go out a lot. williamsburg certainly has way more to do and great restaurants.

That Machete incident is scary......sorry Williamsburg is not as "up and coming" as people try to make it out to be...I would feel safer in Harlem....nyc seems to be the better bet for investment

I assume TOP works someplace fairly equidistant from the two.

And don't be an ass - BOTH harlem and Wburg are up and coming, and arre both much nicer than they were 20 years ago.

> "Wait, if you live near a school your kids don't go to, that suddenly makes your opinion valid?"
> Certainly more so than yours

WOW, we've moved from hypocrisy to outright DELUSION.

I've heard some dumb things said on this board, but that takes the cake!

"There's no agenda here - I'm not trying to sell anything"

It has been shown in study after study that folks will spend BY FAR more time rationalizing a bad decisions than trying to avoid one.

Just because you can't see or won't admit your agenda doesn't mean it isn't so. Though this one is so obvious, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and figuring you are arguing just to argue.

But you motivations have always been abundantly clear....and your hypocrisy to fit that motivation makes it even more obvious.

nyc10022, I think you've deluded yourself into thinking you're always right. Love you cut out the rest of the response, where I mentioned that I actually speak to and interact with these people on almost a daily basis.

Also, you're so certain of your judgment of people you don't even know, over the internets. You may want to consider how silly and inaccurate that is.

Anyway can we call this side debate a draw? Hopefully TOP will come back at some point and tell us what they decided. I would be curious to know.

jason, apologies, I get into it a bit too much sometimes when people get personal. Anyway, would love to hear any updates from simi to get this thread back on track. Simi?

"nyc10022, I think you've deluded yourself into thinking you're always right."

Better than actually being mostly wrong...

"Love you cut out the rest of the response, where I mentioned that I actually speak to and interact with these people on almost a daily basis."

Keep digging... that one still cracks me up. Were these the same people who told you WB was a great "investment".

"Also, you're so certain of your judgment of people you don't even know, over the internets. You may want to consider how silly and inaccurate that is."

I'm not judging you, I'm just judging the stupid things you say.

BTW, what other internet are you on?

nyc10022-- as a parent with tons of friends with kids in williamsburg, i can say for sure that the school problems that you depict could describe many hoods,- there are good schools and bad. in our district, there are 3 highly highly rated schools - 132, 31 and 34. all possible to go to. in addition, the preschool options are terrific - there's a new montessori, williamsburg northside, st. nicholas and the greenpoint Y which also runs a terrific and reasonable summer camp. For K and up, PS 84 has added a successful bi-lingual program where kids learn all subjects in 2 languages, there's a gifted and talented program, the aforementioned st. nicholas and now 2 charters. if you guys don't have kids in the public schools in bburg, why are you talking about the schools? there's a huge parents group on yahoo - brooklynbabyhui, and this is a strong parents community. i love it. but, i'm not arguing for anyone to move here because the folks that find williamsburg appealing for themselves and their kids keep coming with or without me.

I know the schools in W'Burg very well and can comment all I want.

In W'Burg some schools are better than others. Within schools students have different attitudes towards education is this a socioeconomic factor?

"if you guys don't have kids in the public schools in bburg, why are you talking about the schools?"

BJW will have a great answer for this one...

"i can say for sure that the school problems that you depict could describe many hoods"

Sure, but the other ones aren't being sold as "investments" for yuppies...

"Keep digging... that one still cracks me up. Were these the same people who told you WB was a great "investment"."

Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? A home is not exactly an "investment." And now you have wisco, you know, an actual parent in the neighborhood, telling you the same things. I guess none of that matters to you.

"BTW, what other internet are you on?"

Apparently not too familiar with Bushisms.

"BJW will have a great answer for this one..."

Someone had made a comment that there "are no schools in Williamsburg" so I responded with what I'd read and heard about them (and mentioned that they do in fact exist). That's when nyc decided to pick yet another argument.

Simi,

Are you there, did you and the family make the decision? Let us know.