Obama Pro Illegal Immigration to Stop Gay Marriage

Yes, the whole "some path to legalization for illegal immigrants", packaged as it always will be with the wink-and-nod policy towards illegal aliens, is a completely right-wing thing -- albeit with a left-wing public face. The goal is to provide an exponentially-increasing supply of labor at the lowest costs and the worst (cheapest) working conditions.

That organized business and organized religion are on the same page on this is no surprise.

And have no doubt about it, anything resembling amnesty will be a clarion call from people all over the world that they can just settle here and eventually receive residency/citizenship, hence the exponential nature.

At the last amnesty, there were 3 million illegal aliens. Shortly thereafter it hit 12 million new illegal aliens. What next -- 48 million?

Too many sensitve words, like Chirstian, Hispanic, Spanish, etc to not think this has ethnic overtones. That said a nation must control it's borders and hopefully the debate can be about legal immigration and not walling off the country. The nation was founded by immigrants and much of our economic entrpeneurial spirit comes from immigrants and children of.. Additionally we must recognize that illegal immigrants are essential for many industries including agriculture and any reform must include some type of guest worker program or farms and wineries will fail.

Or they can increase pay and working conditions until they can hire legal US citizens and residents. Otherwise they're not viable businesses and should fail. Wineries would make nice housing subdivisions and/or nature preserves.

There's no such thing as a "guest worker", as has been shown in Germany and other European countries.

And the nation was founded by LEGAL immigrants, at a time when we were a frontier nation staking a claim to the land by planting people who were willing to claim sole allegiance to the US. We're not a frontier nation anymore, and never until the past generation has ILLEGAL immigrants been part of the picture.

And we have a very generous LEGAL immigration program already in place. If it needs to be tweaked, it's to provide nurses and certain very specifically-defined highest-level high-tech workers. Not unskilled laborers.

Or they can increase pay and working conditions until they can hire legal US citizens and residents. Otherwise they're not viable businesses and should fail. Wineries would make nice housing subdivisions and/or nature preserves

This is so naive. There is "no pay" that would be economically viable for much of U.S. agriculture. The end result would be either higher u.s. food prices enforced through tarriff or the outsourcing of u.s. agrciculture to countries like Brazil and Mexico.

Cheap immigrant labor?? No, say it aint so. What would our forefathers think?? Oh, yea, I forgot. They were our forfathers, when our "exploited" parents/grand-parents, great-grandparents, etc. emigrated here stowed in the bellow of ships at sea for weeks from europe and the far east to work a lifetime for next to nothing in the mines, fields, sweat shops, skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, railways, etc., etc.

Saying that it is different because our predecessors were "legal" is convenient, but that assumes away the conclusion. One might say that immigration remained legal despite explosive population growth here only for so long as the immigrants were from our favored western european countries. In fact, for decades after immigration became tightly restricted we gave highly favored treatment to our "beloved" immigrants from Canada, Israel, England and Ireland. I am all for an immigration policy, and one with limits. But to create one that admits only highly skilled professionals is both wrong, and backwards. Can anyone seriously argue that we would want to gear an immigration policy to admit immigrants only to take our highly-skilled (and highly paying) jobs?

nyc_sport, learn to read.

I said that to the extent our already very generous legal immigration program needs to be TWEAKED, it's to admit highly-educated professionals in the particular fields in which we have a true labor shortage in the U.S. I didn't suggest cutting our general immigration programs, let alone eliminating them.

Riversider, we can pay more for food. We now spend a ridiculously small percentage of our budgets on food compared with all earlier generations. We spend it on transportation and entertainment instead.

Very bad idea. The end result of your suggestion would be higher taxes for food stamps, lost employment and loss of our agricultural exports. For people of the lowest economic classes food represents a significant part of their budget. And food costs are already increasing a great deal more than government statististics would indicate(I'm assuming the government assumes we all eat Twinkies and processed cereal, sausage like meat and frozen dinners of dubious quality)

"I'm assuming the government assumes we all eat Twinkies and processed cereal, sausage like meat and frozen dinners of dubious quality"
... that's what the government wants us to eat -- the manufacturers of that food pay the government to want us to eat it.

We can pay higher taxes for food stamps. Food stamps, by the way, are the solution favored by (and probably proposed by) the food manufacturers. Prior to that, the USDA had food-distribution outlets to distribute to poor people things that more closely represented food -- the famous "government cheese".

If you want to go survivalist, you can stock up here: http://www.foodreserves.com/catalog/survival-tabs-chockolate.html

That's like ignoring the elephant in the room. This issue necessarily has ethnic overtones because we border Mexico and by proxy all of Latin America, and hispanics stream through the southern border. If caucasian Canadians were illegally crossing the border in the millions then it would be a Canuck problem, but it's not. They are not illegal because they are hispanic, they are illegal and mostly hispanic. Conflating the issues is pure ad hominem based on the fallacy of implied racism. The truth of the matter is if you substituted hispanics for muslims or chinese, there would be no issues regarding exclusion. I can't imagine anyone on this board arguing for the immigration rights of either.

This is an especially infuriating issue because it is neither addressed by liberals nor conservatives in a meaningful manner. The promise of de facto slave labor, parishioners, voting constituents and corporate lobbying appeal to varying degrees to both parties.

Dismissing Alanhart's assertion goes against the heart of capitalism. Corporations can't have it both ways, calling for unfettered capitalism on the one hand and subsidized labor on the other. How was food farmed 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago when the country was 5% hispanic? The argument that we need to have virtual slave labor of hispanics in order to lower costs of food echos southern plantation farmers arguing for property rights in Africans. That is complete nonsense perpetuated by corporate profit, famers throughout the EU do not rely on immigrant labor. They pay more for their produce, they pay more for their gas and they are far less obese. Meat and corn are subsidized directly through government capital and indirectly through illegal immigration, a grand experiment that has resulted in the fattest populace in the nation's history.

The country's education system, healthcare system and welfare system are strained to the point of near collapse. Transportation and infrastructure hasn't had major investment in decades and are showing signs of age, wear and tear. This is an issue of civic planning, and there is no civic planning with porous borders. Not to mention drug trafficking and human trafficking associated with porous borders. There is no nation, without borders.

Riversider
about 1 hour ago

Too many sensitve words, like Chirstian, Hispanic, Spanish, etc to not think this has ethnic overtones. That said a nation must control it's borders and hopefully the debate can be about legal immigration and not walling off the country. The nation was founded by immigrants and much of our economic entrpeneurial spirit comes from immigrants and children of.. Additionally we must recognize that illegal immigrants are essential for many industries including agriculture and any reform must include some type of guest worker program or farms and wineries will fail.

As for capitalism, this is a funny [NOT!] point where the capitalist-socialist continuum meets up ... "globalism" conflates with the "SMASH ALL BORDERS!!!" graffiti of the International Socialist Movement (or whatever they're called. But so far, we have national borders throughout the world, and within each nation there are citizens of that particular nation.

Cesar Chavez, US agricultural union organizer/leader/demigod knew early on that protecting the rights (or interests, if you prefer) to a decent American standard of living for Latino citizens of the US who toiled at the lowest levels of labor REQUIRED that farm guest worker programs and illegal immigration be eliminated. Those people today who scream "racist" at the thought of enforcing immigration policy are causing the direct harm, and even poverty, of Latino citizens of the US (as well as vast numbers of working-poor blacks, and whites too).

Artificially inflating the cost of labor through government program would be a disaster. That is more of alan's handout mentality. We need to control the border and have more legal immigration.

Then what about all the uneducated non-working US citizens on welfare, LICcomm? Don't you want them to work?

What work will they do? Elevator operators?

Or do you just want to keep having your taxes increased to pay for their welfare, LICcomm?

"Artificially inflating the cost of labor through government program would be a disaster."

And LICcomm, precisely what "government program" are you referring to? Limiting, as we do, the number of legal immigrants?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

And you are welcome through the door, NOT the window, or a crack in the wall, a secret tunnel to the basement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhYL-gmPdwg

"Or they can increase pay and working conditions until they can hire legal US citizens and residents. Otherwise they're not viable businesses and should fail."

There go most of NYC's restaurants...

1. Get rid of the illegal aliens (or at least dont provide education/health insurance)
2. Incorporate uneducated non-working US citizens to gov't labor, like picking up garbages on the street, shoveling snows, lawn care, etc. They are already at the bottom of the barrel and it wouldn't matter the type of job we'd give. OR give the illegal's job to the low class US citizens.

This will keep the taxes low, keep our education system strong, and cut our deficit by 1000%

Juliag,
I highly reccomend you see the movie called , "Network". Your Glen Beck video brought to mind.

I have seen it.

Read The Ruling Class in The American Spectator.

"Artificially inflating the cost of labor through government program would be a disaster."

LICC, I think if you had your salary artificially raised you could finally move out of Long Island City.

The face of the expanding inclusive tolerant democratic party. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhYL-gmPdwg

Network reminds me of what Cable News has become, FOX, MSNBC, etc
Scary how a movie made so long ago, is so relevant today.

Just another libertarian utopia: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/world/asia/19taxes.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

Steve, condo boards have right of refusal.

hey great fking idea. Julialg, you seem sorta lonely right wing nut adult youtube watching racist imbecile.... riversider.. you seem like you could give your right hand a rest.... why don't you exchange phone numbers and there'd be 2 less clueless imbeciles that can't look themselves in the mirror on SE!!

Hey the last time I cheked with the "spirit world" of the american indians, they asked to clarify the definition of "illegals"... ROTFLMAO....

YOU GUYZ ARE TOOO TOOOO TOOOO MUCH.....

Let me ask all of you guys....... why don't the canadians stream into the US as illegals? (except for spinny who came here to plug in my phone into the phone jack)...
1) their climate does not allow the growing of cocaine, which de-stabilizes its gov't;
2) the whities in the US said, you whities up north is Kool w/ us (i.e. whities don't colonize whities, they accept their "cultural" differences);

Now one more question.....
1) what is a "citizen" of the US. is it a piece of paper? or a "way of life?"
and just remember is was only 60 yrs ago that we decided to "revoke" the japanese of their citizenship when the whities felt like it.. .FLMAO... .

Bunch a racist crackers...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38304435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia Hey alalhart, my tax dollars going to help your favorite conutry.

Think of all the food stamps 500 million can buy alanhart.

"Additionally we must recognize that illegal immigrants are essential for many industries including agriculture and any reform must include some type of guest worker program or farms and wineries will fail."

Spoken like a true Chamber of Commerce corporate prostitute. Your a fool. The farms and wineries were able to survive before there was an avalnache of illegal immigratns. Plus many famring is now automated so there is not as big of a need for farm labor as before.

Final thoughts on this and americans' VORACIOUS drug appetite.... and sexual assault of the rest of the world...

The FINAL SOLUTION to america's illegal problem is ensure that our GDP grows at a much slower pace than the rest of the world, we have civil wars and become a proxy war country for say China and Russia.... just look at Afghansistan, Colombia, Cuba, Vietnam....

See we have TOO much money and TOO much leisure time as compared to ROW (rest of world).... we use this to buy drugs and ensure every american businessmen abroad have plenty of young 19yos from the eastern block, southeast asia for their "needs." FLMAO

What a moron,
There's nothing racist in my comments in the least. The fact is Canadians have on average a fairly high standard of living and are not inclined to enter the U.S. work force legally or illegally for the purpose of providing unskilled labor.
I think its more than reasonable for a country to secure its borders and to insist on legal immigration. I only point out that many American industries have come to depend on this this cheap pool of labor and cutting it off could have dire economic consequences and for that reason we may wish to consider a guest worker program. A guest worker program would have many benefits, one of which is reducing unemployment in Mexico.

"The end result would be either higher u.s. food prices enforced through tarriff or the outsourcing of u.s. agrciculture to countries like Brazil and Mexico."

That's already happening NOW you fool! Hae you never read a label at the supermarket in the past 10 years?

Isn't it funny how Riversider's ideas to deal with immigration are virtually the same as those put out by the US Chamber of Cporprate Prostitution, I mean US Chamber of Commerce???

For the 111th Congress, the Chamber will:
Continue to push for comprehensive immigration reform that: increases security; has an earned pathway to legalization for undocumented workers already contributing to our economy, provided that they are law-abiding and prepared to embrace the obligations and values of our society; creates a carefully monitored guest or essential worker program to fill the growing gaps in America's workforce recognizing that, in some cases, permanent immigrants will be needed to fill these gaps; and refrains from unduly burdening employers with worker verification systems that are underfunded or unworkable.
Urge Congress and the administration to address delays, backlogs, and disruptions in our immigration and border management systems that impede the movement of legitimate cargo and travelers across U.S. borders.
Ensure the continuity and expansion of H-1B, L-1, and EB visas for professionals and highly valued workers.
Lobby for reform to enable seasonal and small businesses to continue to use the H-2B temporary visa.

------------------------------------------

I love the idea about pushing for more Visas, because one thing unemployed people need is more competition for jobs.... How about a moratorium on all work visas?????

"A guest worker program would have many benefits, one of which is reducing unemployment in Mexico."

Who cares about unemployment in Mexico? You do know that this is the U.S., right???

The only reason you want more immigrant labor is so that all of your cronies can have more cheap labor and bigger profits.

El_P.. states "we don't need slaves anymore, bc wez gotz the cotton gin, beeeeyyyyytches!"

Riversider ALL mexico needs is 20 yrs where the US stops its cocaine importation so that it's gov't can fight it's drug war wo the drug czars with a $trillion war chest. They would have a strong central gov't, increase their GDP to a point where most 6yo mexicans can look down on working in the hot sun for 16hrs/day/6days a week while living in a hut. Da ya getz that?

Mexico markets itself as a poor country, but in fact by world standards, it's an upper-middle-income, upper-middle-wealth nation. Of late, it's held one of the top three spots for wealthiest individuals in the world.

It has no famine, no wars (unless you count drug violence, and most of the illegal aliens are not moving from there), no rampant political persecution, human-rights abuses, genocide, or any of the other factors that might reasonably cause us to bend the rules for neighbors -- rules that we're not willing to bend for our neighbor Haiti, except temporarily after major earthquakes.

And, at least for 2005, the last year I checked, Mexico had lower unemployment than the U.S.!!!!!

w67, you raise more good points: Mexico has great wealth as measured by arable land, water supplies, minerals, and other commodities ... and it exploits them.

Our US mix should stay what it is now and without infloods of people who don't historically have values.
So take that link on no one paying taxes in Pakistan and ask yourself, would you rather be here or there even if you are rich? At least here you are American, there you are a Paki and no matter how rich you are or how many showers you took before you drove your Mercedes. The worst dirty countries in the world or places where they kill eachother every day are the places with the highest populations growth whereas here or European countries we have low birthrates. Well that shouldn't be an excuse for illegal immigration to the US.

translation: "rabble rabble rabble rabble"

Plus to the west 67th street person living in the projects by Lincoln center, you want to shout whitey crackers and talk about cocaine in Mexico that makes you living proof we don't need this

Is it only right wing freaks that take to the internet these days?

So has the the corollary to Goodwin's law already occured. Seems these threads always go the same way. Where's the guy who screams it's George Bush' fault?

No, this one's Ronald Reagan's fault.

Because he let Kennedy beat him?

Mention immigration and the racists just jump at the bait. Incredible.

My personal favorite: "This issue necessarily has ethnic overtones because we border Mexico and by proxy all of Latin America, and hispanics stream through the southern border. If caucasian Canadians were illegally crossing the border in the millions then it would be a Canuck problem, but it's not."

Is that so? In fact, no one knows how many Canadians are living and working illegally in the United States. Unlike Mexicans they blend in pretty easily. Canada is a small country--33 million people v. 106 million in Mexico, so naturally there are fewer Canadians residing here illegally. But estimates run quite high for Canadians living and working illegally in the United States.

Put a huge, diverse, enormously rich country right next door to a huge, diverse, relatively poor country, and what do you expect? The only way to prevent Mexicans from living and working in the United States is to crack down on individual freedom in our country. We need an immigration policy that reflects reality and can be workably enforced. Let's all be thankful that the racist buffoons don't control the federal government, even if they have taken over the state of Arizona.

That's absolutely ridiculous when Canada, as you pointed out, is sparsely populated and widely dispersed. The drug cartels and violence are along our southern border. Illegal immigration and trafficking is coming from our southern border. As you pointed out, Mexico is a relatively impoverished country, unlike Canada, which is the impetus for illegal immigration from Mexico. Your logic is contradictory and you confuse the issue between illegal versus legal immigrants. You choose to ignore reality and you do a disservice when you blithely label anyone a racist who opposes illegal immigration. As noted, defenders of illegal immigration rely on ad hominem attacks and a complete abrogation of reason. In most likelihood you are hispanic and support unfettered immigration rights for hispanics. That is the current state of this sad debate. The current system greatly favors those of hispanic descent and that IS racism. I feel sorry for the millions of human beings from other countries and other parts of the world that wish to come here legally and suffer with our broken system.

happyrenter

Mention immigration and the racists just jump at the bait. Incredible.

My personal favorite: "This issue necessarily has ethnic overtones because we border Mexico and by proxy all of Latin America, and hispanics stream through the southern border. If caucasian Canadians were illegally crossing the border in the millions then it would be a Canuck problem, but it's not."

Is that so? In fact, no one knows how many Canadians are living and working illegally in the United States. Unlike Mexicans they blend in pretty easily. Canada is a small country--33 million people v. 106 million in Mexico, so naturally there are fewer Canadians residing here illegally. But estimates run quite high for Canadians living and working illegally in the United States.

Put a huge, diverse, enormously rich country right next door to a huge, diverse, relatively poor country, and what do you expect? The only way to prevent Mexicans from living and working in the United States is to crack down on individual freedom in our country. We need an immigration policy that reflects reality and can be workably enforced. Let's all be thankful that the racist buffoons don't control the federal government, even if they have taken over the state of Arizona.

Hell, even the unions hire non-union(cute story)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704288204575362763101099660.html

Billy Raye, a 51-year-old unemployed bike courier, is looking for work.

Fortunately for him, the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters is seeking paid demonstrators to march and chant in its current picket line outside the McPherson Building, an office complex here where the council says work is being done with nonunion labor.

"For a lot of our members, it's really difficult to have them come out, either because of parking or something else," explains Vincente Garcia, a union representative who is supervising the picketing.

So instead, the union hires unemployed people at the minimum wage—$8.25 an hour—to walk picket lines. Mr. Raye says he's grateful for the work, even though he's not sure why he's doing it. "I could care less," he says. "I am being paid to march around and sound off."

Protest organizers and advocacy groups are reaping an unexpected benefit from continued high joblessness. With the national unemployment rate currently at 9.5%, an "endless supply" of the out-of-work, as well as retirees seeking extra income, are lining up to be paid demonstrators, says George Eisner, the union's director of organization. Extra feet help the union staff about 150 picket lines in the District of Columbia and Baltimore each day.

pplayer, did you really just say:

"In most likelihood you are hispanic and support unfettered immigration rights for hispanics."

if you don't want people to think you are a racist, don't make blatantly racist comments. you think you can divine my ethnicity by my support for immigration reform? our current and former presidents, george bush and barack obama, both support comprehensive immigration reform. by your logic they must be latino.

bizarre.

RS: that story is hilarious. We could all find more equanimity in our political positions if parking wasn't such a bitch.

Like when lobbyists hire people to wait in line to speak to politicians and get a cell phone call an hour before their turn to speak.... Forget the literal situation, but it does occur.

I think there is too much noise about legal vs illegal immigrants or Hispanic vs Non Hispanics, etc. Most immigrants are very good people and very hard working people. (I am one of them) Whether they are legal or illegal. Especially first and second generations of immigrants. I am sure there are more criminals among the third and fourth generations of immigrants (I guess they call themselves real Americans). What should we do with them? Send them back to the countries where their great grandfather and grandmothers came from?
I think the problems that you need to fix are much deeper and more structural and have to do with religion that poisons everything, money and fake politicians. Illegal immigrants do not create unemployment or crime. Guns are not made in Mexico or Guatemala. I blame money and religion for this. Money and religion cannot survive without guns, poverty, unemployment, racism, poor education, conflicts between different group of people (like Hispanics vs non Hispanics). Immigrants do not create these issues. Look deeper. Don’t be naïve. You think you will secure your borders and fix unemployment or crime?

Regardless, it seems rediculous to expect any country to allow people to just show up and stay forever and not know who they are. All countries have visa programs and citizenship requirements and control who enters and leaves. I think the race card is a red herring.

A bit of irony, right? Considering what illegal immigration has led to, right?

... the horse to water?

Well it seems these two issues are on the news again.