Design + Architecture professional fees?

It should definitely be a percentage of the construction budget, typically in the 6 - 10% range. Chances are, the designer will be able to pay for him/herself via the trade discounts that they usually receive. Plus they get access to all kinds of finishes/materials that the rest of us mere mortals can only gawk at in shelter magazines.

I can reccomend Design by Francois- www.francoistenenbaum.com

Typically designers will get a % of the construction- 6-10% is low though.

Normally designers charge 30-35% - but that can always be negotiated and it depends on the scope of the work and if you want them there everyday to see if construction is being done according to the drawings or just every once in a while.

Additionally, regarding furnishing/decorating the 30-35% that they charge you, you get back in a trade discount (as mentioned above) when you buy the materials/furnishings/etc using a designer- because thats usually around the discount that they usually get as "sold to the trade".

However for certain things they will charge a flat rate- ie drawings and specs (architects too). Maybe a drawing will start at $750 and go up from there depending on what/how much specs are in the drawing.

Uptown,

Times have changed quite a bit from not too long ago. Everyone was getting a percentage and now it looks like the designers and architects are going with an hourly basis.

The hourly basis can also be broken down as there are many different stages from start to finish. You have drawings, design, construction oversight, etc.

I have worked with designers and architects of all varying degrees, very expensive and very inexpensive, sometimes it depends on how busy they are, thats just the way it is. If you would like some recommendation I would be happy to give them to you

I negotiated flat fees for phases of retainer: (1) design development and excruciatingly detailed construction drawings; (2) board approval of plans including negotiations/back-and-forth with building engineer, vetting contractors to bid the job to, bidding, and bid review, and expeditor/permitting; (3) construction oversight.

If you want an opinion of your budget expectations in terms of work you want done, just give bit more info about size of place, what you want done in kitchen/baths and # of baths, and what millwork and anything else you are including, as well as the level of materials as in budget-minded, mid-level, or high end. We're pretty good on here about that kind of stuff--at least some of us.

Thanks for your feedback! Here are some more details on the renovation:

1) The apt. is approx. 1900 sq.ft.
2) Job will include gut renovation of 3 bathrooms (includes changing the location of fixtures/plumbing), partial renovation of kitchen, re-flooring 50% of the area, building closets in 3 bedrooms, painting and moving 2-3 walls to reconfigure rooms. Also includes selection of bathroom, kitchen and lighting fixtures.
3) Does not include selection of furnishings, art and other interior decoration items.

The firm will do all the necessary drawings, get requisite approvals, help with material/fixture selection, manage the contractor selection process and oversee contractor work.

For the above work, our budget is $150K (all included). If we paying a percentage of the construction cost, what would be a good #?

I hope this doesn't disappoint, but I don't frankly see how all this work can get done for $150K. It sounds like a very large job. 3 bathrooms alone will involve quite a lot of work as you have described. If you go with budget finishes, then maybe $60K for all bathrooms? That's pretty rock bottom if you are gut reno'ing them all. I'd say more like $75,000+. Don't know what part of kitchen you are doing, but a kitchen generally costs about $20,000+ on a very tight budget with no fancy anything. Moving walls and building closets involves a lot of demo and finishing time and floor patching and you are doing a lot of it. That could be another $30,000--especially if doors are involved that have to be framed. So we're up to $125Kish. Architect fees of about $15K and expeditor of $6000 brinigs us to $146K. This hasn't included painting, interior closet design, floors, or electrical--the latter being quite expensive. Don't forget to include anything the coop requires if you renovate, such as changing all radiator valves, upgrading electrical box, rewiring, etc--this depends upon the coop.

Lest you be strapped at the end and very disappointing and stressed, I would budget $200,000 and just be glad if it comes in lower. I tend to guestimate on the high side so there is no crisis and budget overruns later. Ali is bit less pessimistic usually in her estimates on here. Let's see if others weigh in.

Uptown2010- Sorry to disappoint you but 150k for a job like yours is very unrealistic. For a job like this with 3 new bathrooms a new kitchen and 3 bedroom on a 1800sf you are looking at at least 250K.
I agree with Kylewest, 20K on a new kitchen but this will not include any appliances, if you go with low end appliance you can spend up to 10k, but if you are going SubZero/wolf ext you are looking at 20K-30K just for appliances.

I am doing my apartment now (starting contraction next month).:
800sf one bedroom duplex on the UES (just doing the lower floor for now)
Labor and all work and material including moving kitchen to living room and making bathroom bigger and adding a shower, new A/C unit, cabinetry for kitchen and build-in for living room,bringing more electric power from the basement up to the 6th floor, moving some walls painting and floors-85K.
Architect and expeditor fees – around 15K
I provide appliances, stone and tile and all light fixtures and bathroom fixture around 40K.
This is my 3rd apartment that I renovate and budget it at around 150K.
Good luck with your renovation and don't just hire the cheapest guy as at the end they are the most expansive ones!

Kyle,

I almost want to hire you, your posts are very well said.

This is coming from a contractors point of view: I have worked all sorts of projects, low-end to very high-end. A general rule which seems to work in 90% of the cases is a low-end project runs about $100.00 sq ft, a med-end project(which can look very nice) is around $200.00 sq. ft.

What I would suggest:

Perhaps scale down your scope of work: Renovate 2 bathrooms now and renovate the 3rd later. I know you would rather get it all done now but you can regret some decisions you make based on the budget. I would rather have 2 beautiful bathrooms then three decent ones.

Also a big item you mention was changing the locations of the bathroom fixtures, that is costly and maybe you can rethink that as well

Alright, let's really pile it on...

Agree completely with USE80 and Primer05 above. Moving fixtures is a pretty time consuming big deal unless it is just shoving a sink or toilet an inch or two. In the kitchen you can move a sink more easily a couple feet and move the stove or fridge without a lot of drama in most cases.

Something we haven't talked about is time frame. Renovations of the scope you are discussing, realistically, will take no less than 6-8 months from the time you close on the apartment. I am inclined to err on the side of 8-10 months. Remember, you need plans developed, board approval, contractor bids solicited and reviewed, permits, the contractor can't start the day he's selected and may need a few weeks, materials have to arrive, demo, construction with all the trades coming and going (and you have a LOT of plumbing and electrical from what it sounds like)...this stuff always has a couple glitches which slow things down at times... I was a slave-driver on my gut reno which did NOT involve moving bathrooms or kitchens--it was a standard gut job if that is possible. 950 sq/ft jr-four. I was 100% on top of it every second of every day. We closed in July. We moved in April. 9 months. It took from July to Thanksgiving for the first hammer to be swung.

It is key that expectations be realistic from the outset for the reno to be a tolerable or even exciting endeavor. Unrealistic budgets and time frames account for 70% of reno nightmares. 30% or so come from skimping on highly detailed construction drawings that specify every finish and material so later there end up being debates with the GC over what was included in the contract. You cannot set expectations explicitly enough up front.

I also must point out and this is important; You must expect 5%-10% in extra's. This is the norm. Not always but usual. WHy does this happen?

1. You change your mind about something
2. The architect/designer changed their mind or omitted somethin by accident
3. The unknown, things behind walls (I was working on a full gut bathroom, as we removed the tile lo and behold there was more tile behind the other tile. The last person just tiled over the existing bathroom. That increased my labor costs as well as the garbage removal cost)