Do we need an architect to manage our project?

YOu need an architect and someone that knows how to navigate DOB very efficiently. Try www.nodenyc.com they helped me out when I renovated my apt

YOu also need an liscenced plumber electrician and an architect to prepare set of plans showing previous kitchen removed and fixtures legally capped

why not just hire an architect? is your interior really that good?

interior designer can not file plans w DOB only architects and engeneers can good luck

First apartment,

You will have a lot of decisions to make in the near future, try to embrace this as the 1st time is always tough.

To answer your first question out of probably many:

There are many different ways to do a project like yours

1. Hire an architect who can give you plans, oversee the project and design for you.

2. Hire a designer and they will do exactly the same thing (most designers use an architect to take care of the drawings and DOB
3. Hire an architect to give you drawings and deal with the DOB, hire a general contractor to do the work
4. Same as three except hire a designer.

It really comes down to budget.

Buyer, you are recommending an engineer firm for an interior renovation? First, if you need someone i know plenty.

One thing you need to find out now, will your building let you expand the kitchen, many will not let you do wet over dry. Very important

Thank you all for all your comments and ideas. Primer, while we don't know for sure because we haven't dealt with the board yet ourselves, we have been told that the board allows wet over dry and is, in general, the most easy-going board we could probably hope for. While we don't want to be penny-wise & pound foolish, we are extremely budget-conscious. Hiring an architect to manage the whole project will be awfully expensive, based upon the estimates we've gotten so far. It sounds from what you've written that we could go with a designer to manage the project, and just bring an architect in for limited purposes, such as filing with DOB (#2).

First,

Since this is your first apartment renovation what i would think aboout doing is this:

Hire a designer that will charge you a set fee for the drawings and an hourly for any design fees. As far as managing the project, I would just hire them to come in maybe once a week. the project does not seem that complicated and if you hire a good contractor you shouldnt need to pay that much for running the job.

we just went through the same thing - architect wanted $60,000 - had a designer do all of the plans for $7800. these were submitted to the board and then my contractor had an architect/expeditor that handled everything with the city.designer also worked with the contractor - however the most important piece of the puzzle was our incredible contractor who was reasonable, knowledgeable and a pleasure to work with

ours was a textbook "gut" - all new from the floors to electric to plumbing - 3 baths kitchen laundry floors etc.

could we possibly have gotten some great ideas from an architect - yes - however we saved a lot of money and our apt looks incredible

Leelaura- you would have have gotten much more than great ideas from an architect. You obviously have no idea what you are missing and are so misinformed if you think a designer is equivalent to an architect. You just do not know better and it is obvious that many on this board feel the same as you do. It's like loving your physician assistant who you may consider knows everything about your disease but they are not docs and they are not trained like docs.As a layman, you wouldn't know the difference.

Newmove,

I have worked with many architects and many designers. Through the years I have found that some are great, some are good and some are just very bad. Great architects, great designers, bad architects and bad designers

I don't think anybody can say which is better or worse, it comes down to each person.

To say Leelaura would have gotten much better ideas from an architect doesnt make much sense. Have you seen Leelaura's apt?

I assume you have not, how would you know an architect is better?

leelaura, would you mind sharing info about your designer and contractor? I'd like to know who they are. Thanks!!

Leelaura,

Can I ask how much you paid for your full gut?

In my experience, architects are often the most sound, stable and rational ones on the job. As stated before having a great contractor could make much difference, but the odds there are not in your favor.

You've not stated your budget, but if you will rely heavily on your designer, an architect will often work out a very reasonable fee structure to review drawing, stamp them and consult as needed. Think of it as insurance, even though you will probably get much more from it.

Lastly, has your easy going Board said that they don't require you to have an architect?

The boards never require an architect. They might want drawings, which you can hire an architect for or a designer who always has an architect to do their drawings.

Architects are rational? How amny have you worked with?

I agree with Primer05- some designers are nearly as knowledgeable in engineering, etc as architects. Others just choose furniture and finishes.

I can't imagine having done our recent renovation without the architect as project manager. He worked in concert with the general contractor and decisions that were made on site due to construction/building limitations were handled perfectly. Additionally, as the plans played out, ideas for more storage or better layouts came into play and were executed wonderfully. i have worked with designers on other homes (not apartments though) and there was no comparison in expertise.

Primer05- you must really be kidding if you do not understand the difference between an architect and a designer. One is a licensed professional who is responsible for everything including the legal aspects and the other is an artist. Some physician assistants are as knowledgeable as physicians but they are not physicians. You get what you pay for.

Newmove,

I do not mean any disrespect but...

How many architects have you worked with?
How many designers have you worked with?
Are you an architect?
What experience do you have in the field of any renovations?

The scope of work that First apartment is doing can be done with a designer who works with an architect for plans. depending on what designer she picks will determine how the project turns out.
I do understand the difference between an architect and a designer as i have worked with many. Some are great while others are not.

Primer- I have unfortunately been involved in several large renovations and have worked with designers and architects. I agree- the designer and architect are complimentary; the best projects often, but not always, turn out to be be those involve both an architect and designer, or just an architect. In my opinion and based upon my experience, any substantial renovation requires an architect.

Newmove,

It strike me as odd that you would say unfortunatlely when talking about several large renovations. Can I ask what did not go well?

The bottom line is this: Most of the designers I work with (the real ones) can do exactly the same things as an architect or they are smart enough to have an architect that they use on their projects. They are generally less expensive then an architect

Primer
The renovations all went well- they just took a lot of time, effort and patience. If you have not worked with high end architects, you should try one with your next renovation since you will not know what you are missing with just a designer.

Newmove,

I am a general contractor, I have completed over 50 high end projects with hi end architects and designers. Its like any other business, some great and some not.

To say one is better then the other just doesn't make sense.

You do need someone who is professional and has a good knowledge of how things work in NY, from my experience most of the architects are great at providing the good shell design, but they get annoyed about which way the medicine cabinet is going to open etc. Archivesid.com - is an interior design company they have licensed architect on board who used to be a planning commissioner at DOB. They work a lot with decorators / designers who have great ideas but don’t know how to put it together as well

First,

I would hire the designer you like and trust, dont they know an architect? They must have needed an architect from time to time.

Just curious, FirstApt... Have made a decision on this or are you still uncertain?

LChristopher: We're hiring an architect to draw up the plans for the board, work with the expeditor to get the DOB permits, and prepare the construction documents for bidding by contractors. We will do all the leg work to select the finishes for inclusion in the construction docs. We will submit the construction documents to contractors, review all bids, and select the contractor ourselves. Once construction starts, we will be managing the project ourselves (with the help of my sister, who's an architecture student). When construction is done, the architect will do the final walk-through to sign off on the project w/ DOB. We have a lot of work ahead of us. We may use an interior designer to help select finishes, perhaps having him work on an hourly basis or a percentage of items purchased.

First Apt:

Most of the purchases should be easy but be careful in regards to plumbing fixtures, if you dont use a designer ask your contractor to help you as you need to order the toilet with the right rough and the drain of the tub needs to be on the proper side. Some people will order a showerbody but depending on where you purchase it might not come with all the parts. Dont be shy asking your contractor for their discount, that could end up being a huge savings

First apt...We had our architect go with us to select all our plumbing fixtures for the three bathrooms and the kitchen. we received his professional discount (about 30%) as well as his vast knowledge of what works best where. however, we did go by ourselves to several plumbing showrooms he suggested first to get an idea of what was available and trends in the marketplace so we weren't wasting his time (or paying for it) when we needed to make decisions. We wound up with hans groehe fixtures and speekman shower heads (the best we have ever had in a bathroom).
the next area where we found his advice so helpful was with lighting. again, we vetted the showrooms and had our design preferences in place before we dragged him along. however, he knew far better than we the amount of light we needed per room as well as the ability to drop ceilings if desired. we found his advice well worth what it cost and also received his professional discount which far more than covered his cost.
The last point that really helped us is that the architect had worked with the general contractor we hired several times in the past. they worked well together and though we did as much legwork as possible ourselves throughout the project, to have a compatible team in place was priceless.

Very exciting! Good luck. It'll all be worth it. Think about including as many details about finishes as possible in the bid drawings or costs will be very very very hard to contain. Guarantee that if you specify "tile" in bathroom and then choose a calcatta gray tile in running bond pattern, the GC will explain that this is much more labor intensive and he must charge a change order of $x for that selection. You're stuck. This will happen time and time again. My preference for containing costs and staying on budget is to include ALL OF IT in the bid drawings down to tile patterns, hinges to be used on doors, model ## for mouldings to be used, doorknobs, exacting electrical plan (you will be shocked at what you will pay for adding a lightswitch or changing one from 2 to 3 switches once the job begins). Spend the time to specify everything before bidding the job and pay an architect to exceptionally detailed drawings. When you select a contractor, HAVE THE CONTRACTOR SIGN THE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS AND INCORPORATE THEM BY REFERENCE INTO THE CONTRACT. Do this and everyone's expectations are set properly upfront and you can all have a professional friendly relationship reducing stress of the reno. I cannot emphasize this last point enough. When jobs go awry, it is failure to do this that is at the root cause 90% of the time.

I actually miss the reno process. It is so incredibly exciting and rewarding to see your vision created. Good luck

kylewest said: I actually miss the reno process. It is so incredibly exciting and rewarding to see your vision created. Good luck

There are few things non artistic people can do that will give them a hands-on appreciation for the creative process enjoyed daily by the artistic community. Some view renovating with nothing but scorn, but I equate it to nothing short of walking in the shoes of your favorite painter as he is creating the masterpiece you covet. Once you get past the drudgery of finding good people that share in your enthusiasm, the process becomes spiritual, and good for the soul.

Well said.