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If a building only has an elevator man and no doorman, what are the safety implications? What are the implications for receiving packages?
Thats my building. They say "elevator attendant" but someone is on call 24/7. They are at the door often but they accept packages.
^^PS Didnt mean to imply my bldg is the one you are talking about. Just an example of how it works where I live.
Our bldg on lower Fifth had an elevator attendant/doorman for 80 years until we upgraded 3 years ago. It's not a problem as long as residents don't allow 'piggyback' entry and your staiwell doors remain locked at all times. It should not be an issue.
Oh, and as for packages, they're delivered to the doorman and kept in the basement (or if the bldg has storage) and given out while the front door remains locked. It does require some juggling by the doorman and patience on the part of the residents. But it does work.
just means they heven't upgraded the elevator to self-service. Not as service oriented as having doorman 24/7, because the elevator man is serving two functions.
Of course the "fancy" buildings have both doormen AND elevator man.
@PH41- If the building is on the smallish side (ours has 58 units), the cost to staff a full time doorman and an elevator man is prohibitive. At least as far as we on our board were concerned.
broadbent - understood as to cost constraints. But, elevator man alone is just not as good security/convenience as doorman. What happens when elevator man is bringing people to their floor? Is the front door locked? (not great if you're waiting outside). Is the front door open, not manned" Not great for security.
What was the impetus for your building to "upgrade" (I understand that to mean you switched to a self-service elevator). Everybody got tired of waiting for the elevator man to get back to the door to let them in?
Personally, I'd far rather have a doorman than an elevator operator. I'm not wild about elevator operators in doorman buildings either. It just seems redundant and a waste of money.
@ph41 Clearly having both is preferable- but the reason we upgraded was because we felt that having a full time doorman, rather than an elevator man (which is charming etc), is better service. You are precisely right that guests (and lazy residents without keys handy) didn't always like to wait until the elevator man was back at the door. The front door always remained locked until he returned. We debated this for many years and finally realized that in order to provide 'fancy' service, we needed an doorman instead. So far everyone is happy. But....the charm of the elevator man (like at our neighbor 40 Fifth) is really nice. But they're a bigger building than ours and can easily absorb the costs.
I've been in many buildings where they have a 24-hour elevator attendant and not a doorman. I don't particularly care for the practice. As for being service-oriented, some clients I have had prefer not to have a doorman or elevator attendant. They feel it's just another person in their business.
Bond New York
The back-history: When automatic elevators started to appear, many people were scared of riding in an elevator alone, without an uneducated former field laborer from the South to help them in the event a cable broke and gravity took over (or it was just stuck).
So tenants refused to allow conversion to automatic ... and in some cases, automatic elevators were installed, but operators stayed on to push the buttons. As late as the 1990s, the latter example could be found in Manhattan; not sure if the operators were finally eliminated.
I hate having to small-talk with a doorman ... stuck in a little cube with an elevator operator, it's strictly torture-talking. Uggh, who needs a Stairmaster?
Oh alan, we certainly don't want you stuck in a little cube with an uneducated former field laborer from the South, let alone just having to have the occasion to have small talk with that uneducated former field laborer from the South.
it's all about the $$--if a coop is small enough for it to work, it allows that they defer the expense of installing an automatic elevator--if one is considering a purchase in such a bldg consider that, ultimately, there will be an expensive assessment auto is installed--i have found there is little difference in security or package handling int these buildings
the daily discussion of the weather or giants can get a bit tiresome
Alan -- Didn't you know that an inability to spot sarcasm is one of the hallmarks of a troll? It is closely related to stupidity.
Another hallmark of a troll is her inability to be heard, what with appearing as the faintest grey with no dialogue.
Hey, midtownerVirgin, Wtushy, and alanhart having a party
the history post-Alan's back history is that if a building has rent-stabilized tenants, it is reluctant to cut staff for fear those tenants will claim that services have been cut. So once there's an elevator man, the building is unlikely to convert to an automatic elevator while there are still RS tenants in the building.
DG Neary Realty
>Another hallmark of a troll is her inability to be heard, what with appearing as the faintest grey with no dialogue.
By the way alan, that's another pretty nasty thing to say about those elevator operators from the south that you despise and fear.
@front_porch - I disagree with you based on our experience. We still have a handful of rent-stabilized tenants and when we converted from elevator operator to f/t doorman there was absolutely no claim that services had been cut, changed or diminished. The service just switched from one type to another with no sacrifice in service. We proved it to the sponsor who looks for any reason to increase the rents of their longtime tenants.
Since 2003, banks don't need to even process paper checks anymore (this came about b/c of 9-11 when all those planes filled with check cargo couldn't fly and become processed). It's hard to think that in 2011 that all NYers are acclimated to pressing a button in an elevator. Except perhaps alanhart who is still afraid of "faint grey trolls" "from the South" who he is afraid of being locked in a small box with for 30 seconds.
broadbent -- you were okay because you didn't cut a staff position. I'm talking about a situation where the building wants to cut the elevator operator position but not add a doorman.
Got to love when unions and rent stabilization combine! More people to do nothing, and everyone pays for it except th emoron complainer!
my original question had to do with buying an apartment. My wife is a physician that needs to leave late at night. We both work during the day and can not accept packages. Some buildings have 24hr elevator men only. I am trying to see if this is a safe option.
@ajbuyer...boy did we get off track...sorry. My suggestion to you is to inquire with your agent and see how the building handles packages. If there's a full time super maybe he/she accepts deliveries during the day. As for safety - what are your expectations? Does the elevator operator at this building man the door too? That should take care of the safety concerns.
@front-porch- you're referring to lesser buildings I can only assume.
like i said, there is little difference in security or service, such as package reception, in buildings with an elevator operator and no doorman, so long as the building is not so large as to be plagued with long elevator waits--of course an old, manually operated elevator will soon need to be replaced, and in a small building that assesssment will bite, but then so will increases in RE taxes, underlying mtge interest rates, fuel prices and so many other goodies...rent
I've lived in an elevator operator only building. Functionally it's a doorman building -- no issue with accepting packages, dry cleaning, etc. (The building is relatively small so it's not like the elevator man is simply riding up and down all day.) The elevator men keep the front doors locked unless they are actually standing in the lobby. If the elevator man is in the elevator when a resident arrives, the resident can buzz (alerting the elevator man that she's waiting), and can either let herself in with her front door key or wait until the elevator man emerges to let her in. The wait was seldom more than a minute or so.
As far as safety: Subtract a few points for the fact that someone could try to push in after a resident who enters with a key while the elevator man is otherwise occupied. But in my building the back staircase was also kept firmly locked so there would literally be nowhere for such a person to go, and the elevator man would be arriving momentarily anyway. Add a few safety points for the fact that (at least in some building configurations) absolutely no one enters your elevator vestibule without being ferried up by the elevator man.
Do not know what "lesser" buildings are. I visited a building jut wandered into the lobby with no one stopping me until I got to the elevator. This is what concerned me. I will ask about packages.
@ajbuyer- a "lesser" building is most likely like the one you "wandered" into. That being one without a doorman or elevator man, low security/service, and not one that would be considered a "luxury" building- or one that has few units and cannot afford full time staff. This is only my unprofessional opinion, but based on having served on my coop board for 10 years.