Miami Beach

I keep telling everyone that the good stuff in Florida is being snapped up, but no one is listening to me.

Good stuff, sells VERY quick, lots of cash buyers, bidding wars. Mediocre stuff sits and drags down the averages, so the retirees up here will wander down there in 5 years and wonder why they can't find anything. I have a property in an area that is up 22% y-o-y (average AND median price).

I'm with you, Bal Harbour is a nice area.

First of all, Murano Grande is a dump - cheap finishes from the get-go. Icon is worse. Portofino is very nice, but it's a wind tunnel: friends of mine had a place there on an upper floor and you couldn't open the sliding doors at the same time if you had a small dog, lest it get sucked into oblivion.

Aventura is great, if you're 103.

Bal Harbour is nice, I agree with that.

However, the article is a shill (again). Go to buybeach.com, press on "Bank owned properties and short sales," and take a look at what's available, and the price they're available at. There's so much stuff so cheap, only a fool would pay those exorbitant prices.

Agree on the cheap finishes and the wind tunnel (most developer places have questionable finishes). But still great locations and views. Only the Capri and the Apogee have really high end finishes and they're priced that way. I feel like most buyers renovate. Miami is a culture of construction and renovation. Tons of contractors looking for work. White glass tile is $17.99. There are great deals to be had in every building and neighborhood. There are foreclosures and short sales that come up in the nice buildings too if you can pay cash. Then you hope to find the Russians/Brazilians who are willing to pay more or just enjoy.

I'll be the one to disagree on Bal Harbour. Certainly its toney and the shopping is great, but walkable?? You've got to be kidding. It reminds me of LA. You need a car to go ANYWHERE. Not there's really anywhere to go in north beach or mid-beach, but...other condo's. Wall to wall to wall condos, up and down the beach. Blah.

For a MUCH nicer scene, try Flamingo Drive, near the golf course. It's across the canal and feels miles away from South Beach, like you're in a ritzy suburb. BUT, walk 10 blocks and cross a footbridge, and you're at 18 and Collins in the heart of SoBe.

Agree that only cash deals are getting done on the Beach; no one is lending. But you're a fool or a realt-whpre shill if you pretend they are all getting "snapped up" - Miami is still a real estate train wreck.

Actually, the exact comment was "Everything good is sold or in contract to cash buyers".

I just spent a month in Miami. This is SO not the case. Let's all say it together, folks:

REALT-WHORE! REALT-WHORE!

Flamingo Drive is a nice neighborhood, but the canal is not that great. Those waterfront houses face Collins/A1A. Road noise. The drylot houses are better in that area. Large lots, quiet. Every good house or good deal on the Venetian Islands is sold. 126 W San Marino got over-ask bids the day it listed and they promptly raised the price $750k and it's in contract after the 1st open house. Every large -03 and -04 3br in the Murano Grande is sold except this one that's horribly overpriced where they unexcusably raised the price at the start of the season.

The article says it's very specific recovery. I'm emphasizing the same thing. I don't love the giant ugly condos in mid-beach like Mosaic. Look at the March quantity of sales versus average for Miami Beach. The #s don't lie. The season was busy for real estate. A lot of investors buying cheapie properties too.

DP - why are you so angry?

@Dwayne; Is that "REALT-WHORE!" directed at me? I'm NoT a realtor or in any way connected to the real estate industry.

Good try, though. . .

I checked on the sales they cite at the Setai - all to anonymous LLC's, one at twice the appraised value.

Smells fishy to me. They wouldn't be the first developers to buy from themselves at inflated prices, to lift the comps. Nobody buys at twice the appraised value.

I don't get the Setai. Who would want to be on that part of Ocean Drive? It's only for tourists I think. Funny about the LLCs because locals often sell to LLCs at a lower price for property taxes.

If you spend short periods of time in Miami, Bal Harbour, South of Fifth Street and even Aventura, it would be a nice get-away. To spend a season or more, the low-rise areas that are strictly pedestrian seem to work better without that tourist feel. South Beach has evolved into a real community (West of Pennsyvania Ave clear over to West Ave) and keeps improving every year. With all the Starbucks, There are a coupole that the community go to just to get away from the vacation vibe. Whereas I had my barbs in years passed, this is really an area that I regret leaving of late.

South Beach is horrible. I lived there for years. Long Island City is better.

I'm standing on Collins near 30th as I type this. Sure are a lot of half finished stalled building rehabs in midbeach. Weathers great.

I'm at 52nd & 8th - weather sucks.

"Flamingo Drive is a nice neighborhood, but the canal is not that great. Those waterfront houses face Collins/A1A. Road noise."

No, your memory is faulty. Google map it or, better yet, VISIT! There is some land between Flamingo and the Canal, then indian creek drive. Collins and the AIA are NOT within earshot. At least not where i was, 28th -30th block.

"If I were an early retiree, I'd choose Bal Harbour."

I'd choose Sewickley.

"I'm standing on Collins near 30th as I type this. Sure are a lot of half finished stalled building rehabs in midbeach. Weathers great. "

That's not possible, West. We were just told by the nice realtor that everything nice has been bought. Buy now, or be priced out of Miami Beach forever!

Reality: No lending is happening on the Beach; only cash deals get done. Does this sound like an overheated market to you??

"DP - why are you so angry?"

Hmmm, let's see. Uh, could it be that i lived there for years and know the area quite well, and that i resent when hacks and shills try to mislead others into throwing away their hard earned money by pretending it's an overheated market, this market only goes up up up, you need to buy now or be priced out forever, and other realt-whore drivel.

"But Dwayne, I'm not a realt-whore" you say. That may be so. But you sound like one, and you ape the same trite bubble-era falsehoods. So don't be surprised if you are treated with the same contempt.

> South Beach is horrible. I lived there for years

South Beach has changed incredibly from just a few years ago.

It used to be a dump 50 feet off the beach. That is no longer the case.

Very different place now.

Palm Beach County is a great place to buy for winter homes. Water front or country clubs, it's a great time to buy!

Just posted this on another thread, but here it is again;

Be careful in FL. I think there are a lot of bargains but the recovery will be slow. You need to shop for properties with a "point of difference". Something that is special about the location (waterfront) or area (enclave, island, golf front, desirable school district) that makes it different and SELLABLE from all the other properties that are for sale in FL. People are figuring this out, and the desirable areas are up in price from last year. Otherwise, the situation is much like Vegas, they can build duplicates of your property from here to the horizon and it will be hard to compete.

Part of the reason that Manhattan is so expensive/desirable is that it is an island, and you can't build competing properties ad infinitum.

I don't think the market is overheated, but I do think the desirable properties are ticking up from the bottom. This is the same thing I saw in Manhattan in 2009, which is when I bought. The rich are picking up ocean front HOUSES all over the state, as we speak.

No, they are not buying mediocre condos on Dixie Hwy in Pompano, but they are buying fabulous properties in Key Biscayne.

Re: Part of the reason that Manhattan is so expensive/desirable is that it is an island, and you can't build competing properties ad infinitum.

I wish people would stop spouting this nonsense. Walk over to that vast expanse of nothingness now called Hudson Yards and explain to the guys digging foundations for new residential skyscapers where there used to single story garages that "you can't build competing properties ad infinitum"

" they are buying fabulous properties in Key Biscayne."

The Key is, in my mind, the nicest beach front in Miami. It's a little sleepy, but you are 10-15 minutes from South Beach, Coconut Grove, Mary Brickell Village, downtown Miami, etc. Obviously, Star Island is nicer, but I don't have $25 million to build a place next P. Diddy. Fisher Island is nice, too, but i'm not a snotty new-money-pretending-to-be-old money type, and i'm not 80 years old! For those reasons (and other, politically incorrect reasons i won't mention here), you can keep Fisher Island. It has the stink of death to it.

We recently purchased a 3 bedroom condo with a roof terrace in Miami Beach. We went into contract last May and closed in Oct.2010. This development had been bought out of foreclosure and resold for 1/2 the price the units originally sold for prior to the real estate meltdown in Miami. Many developments like ours are being sold as white boxes so you must renovate them yourself. In our case, the kitchen and bathrooms were in, but the rest of the unit was left to the taste and expense of the owner. The good news is you can control the finishes and there were plenty of workmen anxious for the jobs. Over the last few months, I have noticed a change. Indeed, designers, contractors, electricians, etc. seem to be much busier than just 6 months previous. As far as the area goes, I would say it is definitely transitional, above the Fountainebleau, near Canyon Ranch, it is an area that is changing. Still a lot of Hasidic Jews in the neighborhood, as well as Brazilian restaurants, Cuban restaurants, great empanadas, it is quite a cultural hodge-podge which I really enjoy. I think it will take a while before the prices get back to where they were pre-melt down. Not sure if the neighborhood will ever become as hip as southbeach, but that's OK with me. Our condo has 117 units and only 12-15 are left so things are selling.

I know the area, Newbie. I think you will enjoy it. It's GOOD that its not as hip as South Beach; you are a stone's throw from South Beach and can access "hip" anytime you like. Heck on nice day you can almost walk it! Hasidics tend to be good neighbors; they are family oriented and generally are a stabilizing force in the neighborhood.

DP, the southern part of Flamingo waterfront does face Collins, further north in the 30s, you face Indian Creek. Still not QUIET backyard though, or quiet waterfront like Venetian Islands or Sunset Islands. I like the Flamingo Dr neighborhood though (not knocking if), very residential, local, large lots, nicely upgraded houses for the most part, and close to everything. I know you hate Miami Beach, but what bad is there to say about the Venetian or Sunset islands? Or North Bay Road? La Gorce Island? Indian Creek Island? Obviously, most people looking for vacation condos aren't shopping those areas. But if you had the $ and could buy one of those houses for 1/2-2/3 of 2006 prices, why wouldn't you? Prices certainly have firmed up and you can rent out pretty easily.

All the places you named - La Gorce Island especially - are stunning. I would own a vacation home there (as long as i had someone to look after it in a hurricane if i was away).

Any thoughts what i can get for around $150k in florida? I am thinking of a vacation home for the winter months. would prefer to be close to a beach and restaurants. is it possible to find a nice a nice 2 bedroom condo in miami beach in that price range? what are your thoughts on the other side of florida, in naples?

@EKARTASH: Browse around on this site; http://www.floridamoves.com/Property/PropertySearch.aspx

There are some great deals, especially in Naples, which is a lot safer than Miami in my opinion. You can get a roomy 3/2.5 condo, with a nice lake view and an enclosed garage for under $150K in Naples. In Miami, it truly helps if you speak spanish. But it depends if you want a suburban vibe or big city vibe.

South Florida is a great place to buy. Hurry up and buy before prices go down even further!

a $150k condo that used to go for $400k does not have much room to fall. so it falls another 50k. who cares? i am not buying it to flip. i am buying it to use.

Friends of ours bought a foreclosed 2/2 on Ft Myers Beach several years ago. We've visited them a few times. Really nice beach. Beachfront condos are still 250-300k for 2/2 but I think they'll hold value. Across from the beach is more in your price range. You can look at property here http://www.greaterftmyers.com/
Naples is more upscale but runs a little higher.

Needsadvice, Spanish speaking equals dangerous? Have you ever tried to eat a meal in a good restaurant in Naples after the blue plate special ends?