When to seriously start looking?

Contact me today so we can start looking at places next week!

end of feb and you want to look around jan 1? what kind of building? if it is a doorman highrise, you might be able to see units as much as 45 days out (but doubtful as they are still occupied). if you are looking for anything else, don't start until your move in month.

and whatt about todays atmosphere makes you think there is more wiggle room? the higher rents, or the lower vacancies?

Usually 30 days before, but beginning of January is good start.
If you look now you will hardly get availabilities for march 1 and if you find the perfect place now, a lot of owners will expect you to rent it no later than january...
Good luck!

Yes, I was thinking early Jan. Thanks!

still to early. 45 days MAX, and that is for onsite properties. anything else, within 30 days. here's what'll happen. you will see something you love on say, jan 5th. what to do? landlord won't take anything later than a january 20th move in. so if you want it, you'll lose a month's rent. see it all the time. save yourself the effort, wait till after feb 1.

related currently has a unit in tribeca park that's listed as available 2/28/11.

it depends on the landlord and the unit (whether it's being refurbed, for one thing).

sure, it's listed. getting in to see it might be another matter. i definately would not allow my landlord to begin showing my apartment 3 months before my lease expires.

again, doorman/highrise/onsite, start early. otherwise, wait.

AR is correct. Some places will sit on the market for a couple of months and landlords know that. The only thing you have to lose by starting to look early is your time and you will put yourself in a better negotiating position knowing that you have some time. On my last move I started looking over 60 days prior to move out date and had agreed on a place 45 days prior.

Let's hear from the op what type of apt he/she wants.

Jim's totally right on this one. I started looking two months out - found something i really liked - ended up having to pay double rent despite all my best intentions....

Rentals are not the same as Condos/Coops. With lease terms typically one year, the savings are not as great. Look for the best deal, but invest an "appropriate" amount of time in the endeavor. This is not a purchase decision.

Either you end up paying double rent because you fall in love with a place too early or you a rushed into a deal you may not love because you are running out of time. Either way, landlords win. Choose your poison.

Or better buy

And lose your life savings.

One. Month rent

Life savings?

JM, you a renter? not necessarily. many units need reno, and landlords will show you a completed unit and you can sign up a good month to two months in advance. we did.

and you're assuming kstiles is too stupid to not just use this as research. dumb. why shouldn't you look and see what's going on and whether some things are hanging longer than others? look at the last minute, landlords win.

i'm seeing more and more availability dates that are more than a month out.

There are those anger issues again.

oh, and rs, condos often offer two to three year deals. talk to nada. wrong again.

What the hell is wrong with you AR? I'm not assuming anyone is stupid. Whatever you have up your ass take it out.

Ar, you are out of touch, and out of your depth here. How lomg have you been in your apt?
Condos offering multi year deals is common?
Don't you see that you are arguing just to argue? 30 days out and 60 days out are very very different.

Get back on the bus

eww, last week we had to think about aboutready's thong. Now we have to think about what is in her ass.
eww

Juice man

You have seemed like a reasonable guy

How do you feel about the troll?

Since when is Juiceman reasonable? I mean, he's got anger issues according to aboutready, and you've decided that he's irresponsible enough to lose his life savings.

JM, disagree with your take. why shouldn't someone who is renting look? dear good lord i'm assuming you wouldn't suggest that someone who needs to buy start at a certain date? i agree there are differences in degree, but an informed consumer is an informed consumer. why start only 30 days in advance unless it is to make honesy's life easier?

no, honesy, not. i look at rental listings for enough hours to make my eyes bleed. i found our apartment a bit over two months before move in, which is common if an apartment is being renovated.

and yes, i have heard a number of people getting multi-year deals for condo rentals, when negotiations are done correctly.

"dear good lord"?

aboutready, you are so good at renting, but you acknowledge that you sold your apartment 3-4 years before peak prices. So you can time one month, good for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/opinion/30zhuo.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Cc, so to your way of thinking, if you don't like someone, it invalidates their opinion?

http://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bcolumbiacounty

Ar, I clearly stated why he/she shouldn't look too early. Because odds are very high they the op will find an apt they want--way before they actually want to move in. This happens more than you can possibly imagine.
Once again, human nature has far more to do with re transactions than most on this board can admit too.

I'd put the number of two year leases I've seen (total number of leases in the 1000's) and around 5 percent. That includ
es condos, coops and rentals. How are you privy to what terms are being signed on condo leases?

Makes sense to me...

Troll

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/opinion/30zhuo.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

http://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bcolumbiacounty

how many condo leases do you do, JH? you are a self-professed agent in large landlord buildings.

i know a number of people who have rented longer-term in condos. some owners wish to sell in a year or two, but those who don't often like to lock in longer-term renters. they are not landlords by design.

and the op doesn't have to look at units that are available now, necessarily. she can look at the few that are available later, she can look at the types that are available in buildings that have large numbers of rentals, she can look on SE and find buildings that had lots of rentals in february of last year and see if any are interesting. obviously if someone has little time these are not options, but to suggest that doing some early research is useless is stupid. i like to have info, and info is not transparent in rentals so it can take some time to get a sense of what is really available.

You know people who rent out their condos for multi-years? So not only do they own their own place, but they own another place too for investment purposes?

And you talk to these people?

rs, you just can't help yourself, can you? responding without thinking?

I don't get you AR. Where in my post do I say that renters "shouldn't look". The facts are that you can look two years ahead of time but it doesn't mean you will get the unit you like. Renting and buying are all about timing, it is as simple as that.

Also, you talk about reno apartments that are months from completion as the norm. They are not. The norm is what the OP is contemplating and everyone faces it at some point in NYC, renter or buyer.

Time you stop playing the contrarian (or whatever the hell you are selling) and recognize the OP has a legitimate (and common) issue to deal with.

Juiceman, you have anger issues, plus according to columbiacounty you are going to lose your life's savings.

Separately, has anyone wondered why aboutready knows people who own condos and rent them out?

"Either you end up paying double rent because you fall in love with a place too early or you a rushed into a deal you may not love because you are running out of time. Either way, landlords win. Choose your poison."

Trust me - you won't get rushed into a deal at 1 month unless you succumb to meaningless broker shite. For every great apt you find 2 months out, there will be 10x as many at one month out. .....and as for poison, give me the flexibility and outstanding economics of renting ANY ...FREAKIN'...DAY...OF ...THE ....WEEK.
Kstiles99 - if you decide to buy, be prepared to take a huge step down. Alternatively, let owners like Juiceman subsidize your rent for you out of their own pocket.

Ar, who said it was useless? I didn't. I think it unwise. Why assume the op is female? Porjecting? So a couple of friends rent condos, this is the control group? Not very well thought out. Juiceman's got it. You're playing the contrarian. Or as I said earlier, arguing just to argue.

My first question to the op, yet unanswered, is what kind of apt she wants. Buildings with onsites are a pretty small percentage of the rental market.

jm, because i said are you a renter you asked what i have up my ass? Ohkay.

actually, jm, many large landlords routinely rotate their units into renovation, kind of like hotels do. maybe you haven't rented in awhile?

and f' you, i'm not selling anything. i'm telling the op that if she would like to do some research it wouldn't hurt, and she might even find a unit to boot. it certainly beats telling her to forget about it and not bother. i admit it takes time, and if she doesn't have it why bother, but many people like to look. i'm being helpful, actually.

So now a rental building is like a hotel?

No one told the op not to bother, only that it was better to wait. And it is. For all the reasons stated.

honesy, kstiles has reported on her shoe collection more than once. i'm not assuming.

you're such an ass.

knowledge is empowering for the renter, that's the last thing you want.

aboutready, what time did you have your first drink this morning?

AR - (and i can't believe i'm saying this), but Snr. Hones is right on this one. Kstiles, don't waste your weekends on fruitless searches for apts that won't be available when you want to move in.

AR, explain to us how paying property taxes upstate supports NYC schools?

AR - not everbody is as obsessed with real estate as you (or me for that matter) and will get off on just looking for a new place...normal people should just stay cool, live their lives, and wait it out...

and pay jim boner. good advice. very helpful

oh em gee. you don't think people should start researching more than a few weeks ahead to determine what the market has been doing, etc.?

i'm not saying do a full press looking at units, but you should definitely be getting an idea of what's happening and if you are interested in a condo rental you should be very active.

where's nada when i need him?

Ar, you're so very very wrong. I like it when clients are well informed. Saves so much time. But knowing what was on the market 30 days ago when you need to sign a lease 30 days from now is useless.

where's "nada"?

Maybe he read your long farewell and thought you were being truthful. Shame on him.

middleclass, except this thread was started by someone who seems to think looking earlier rather than later might be a good idea. get it. this is in response to someone, not just a general hey what do i do if i need an apartment tomorrow thread.

....it is cool to look though....i had three broker douches still on the go even AFTER I signed my lease....but its a sickness

So here you answer a specific question.

But on a thread about NYC schools you tell us how you pay property taxes upstate, which have nothing to do with NYC schools.

What time did you take your first drink this morning?

hones, that is so not true in the winter. and it is not true for those looking to rent condos. and as i've pointed out some landlords have postings for availabilities two to three months from now.

Aboutready, what time did you have your first drink this morning?

I mean, weren't you on vacation for most of last winter? What year was the last winter when you searched for a new apartment?

you do it on purpose, and i've noticed. not that there's anything i can do, but i've noticed!!!

Lucille, what?

he types like me

AR - well i happened to think looking early is a bad idea - and that is my response to her from my own experience. get it. She didn't just post here for validation of her decision.

only 1 opinion is tolerated on streeteasy

Ar, so because its winter, all apts are available for rent for 60 days or more? Condos in particular? There are more reasons to support why its a bad idea to start a serious (op's phrase) search too early. Main one being that if you see something you like, you have to choose between taking it and spending double rent, or losing it.

except you don't give any real support for your position. why would someone make such an important decision without a reasonable amount of research? how hard is it to look at what's available for a couple of extra weeks? it's much less onerous to pay two extra weeks rent to get what you want than to overpay to buy.

fu2 AR. You are focused on the exceptions not the norm, but whatever floats your boat.

"because i said are you a renter you asked what i have up my ass?"

No, re-read YOUR post. You said I assumed the OP was stupid and then said I was dumb. I don't really care about the latter part because coming from you that means nothing, but the OP is certainly not stupid.

You really have fallen off the deep end, what the hell is wrong with you?

Probably just anger issues

wow, jm, if you take such offense at so little you've reallly become quite the sensitive flower. you may not have liked what I said but it hardly warranted that response.

I'm done with you. I made my point clearly in the first couple of posts. More people think you're wrong here. Which you are. Time for bed. How many hours of your day did you waste here today? Shameful.

have another drink aboutready, he'll get over his anger issues but nothing can mask how you've wasted your life despite being the only one in your family to have made it out of the trailer trash park.

CC - i'll never pay jim boner - i break out in hives if i think one cent goes to a broker - you can contact rental buildings direct just as easily one month out as 2 months - and they will have more to show you.

Yes, I am sensitive about calling new posters with legitimate questions stupid. Maybe you should be as well.

actually, i never called the op stupid. i asked whether others were implying she was stupid.

were you drinking at the time you asked?

imagine that.. AR fighting and using explitives again with other posters.. I thought she said farewell?

Wow, I never thought my question would receive such a barrage of comments! I AM looking in doorman/high rise buildings and I have been casually watching some buildings of interest for a while on SE. There are apartments listed on rentfidi.com for Jan/Feb now so it didn't seem too unreasonable to start looking after the new year for a mid/end Feb move. And I do plan to have an overlap of my old/new apartment (no longer interested in doing that whole Move everything out on final day.

jsmith, what was your prediction on when aboutready would cancel her farewell?

On lease terms, 2-3 years is a non-issue in condos / coops for the most part. In all the offers I've made, half the time they take it w/ a tenant-only early termination without any push-back. A quarter of the time they want to make early termination two-sided (which gets shut down with a "fine, but we split the fee then") or no early termination. A quarter the time they push for a 1-year only. For the most part, condo / coop owners don't want to look for a new tenant every year, re-paint, have empty months, etc., so all you have to do is ask.

Wow, all those offers, sounds like you must be a renter in a lot of apartments currently!

On when to look, it's always good to get a sense of the market.  For me, SE serves that purpose much more efficiently, so outside of the odd Sunday when I'm feeling like having fun at an OH, I don't bother.

When you're ready to find a place, there are two approaches for two different goals, IMO.

If you have very specific criteria, look early.   E.g., if you must be in building X where a target unit comes up every once in a while, and you're happy to pay whatever asking price is being asked, then you want to be there when it's there.

That ain't inonada's game, though.  Inonada has a very wide range of tastes and is looking for the most bang for the buck and greatest negotiating position.  That defines everything.

Rental negotiations are a game of brinksmanship.  Ask yourself when a lease must be signed for a place.  If the LL misses this date, they lose a month's rent for sure, possibly more if they don't find a tenant for the next month.  For condos, this date is typically about 4 weeks before the move-in date: condo boards must approve within 30 days, and the typically-quoted turnaround time is 2-3 weeks (often it's even faster, but people anchor to the contractual 30 days).  Working backwards from that, you give a week for drafting of the lease, a week for negotiating terms, and a week for seeing places.

So, for condos I suggest 7 weeks.  For coops, add 2 weeks because the approval times are longer.  For rental buildings, subtract 2 weeks: there's no approval, but the limitation is that nearly all "sane" people will want to know where they are going to be living at least 2 weeks in advance.

So inonada, what percentage of apartments you negotiate for do you actually take?

One thing I wanted to highlight.  For maximum negotiating leverage, you want to look at everything within a week.  Spend the weeks prior filtering down your choices to the 10 or 20 best by researching online, but when it comes to seeing the places, see them all as quickly as possible back-to-back.

The point here is that negotiating leverage comes from having alternatives.  Inevitably when you see a place you like, you'll feel a need to make an offer: you don't want it to slip away.  On the other hand, you might find something else you like better, but as soon as you make the offer, you're tied into a path, so you don't want to make an offer.  The best way to deal with this dilemma is to synchronize the clocks: see all your options at the same time, which is most preferably at the last moment possible given the timeline.

Once you have the clocks synchronized and have decided your few favorite places (3 at a minimum, 5 if you're loco), your leverage comes from making simultaneous offers (and subtly letting everyone know it). Because you've set the timeline to the last possible moment, the LL is faced with a tough choice: play ball with you, or miss at least a month and wait for the next suitor. You, on the other hand, have an easy choice: take the one that gives you the best terms.

Once negotiations start, they have a life of their own and will be done within a week. The point here is that as the renter (same for buyers), you have absolute control in setting up the negotiation timeline so as to give yourself strong alternatives (the 2-4 other best things on the market at the moment, negotiated and ready to sign a lease) while leaving the other side with a weak alternative (wait and hope for a better offer, meanwhile losing rent).

closecounty1: So inonada, what percentage of apartments you negotiate for do you actually take?

Shit, hfscomm1: that sounds like contributing to RE dialogue rather than disrupting it. You're going to get stripped of your stripes for conduct unbecoming of a troll.

To answer your question, somewhere between 1-in-3 and 1-in-5. How about you?

Hey nada, a few comments: you make it sound as if once a renter decides not to take a particular apt then the landlord can't rent it to anyone else for 30 more days.

Most empty apartments shown to tenants are available today. If you don't want it today they'll try and rent it to the next person who wants it today. There might be some negotiation about taking it 2-3 weeks later, but more than that is out of the ordinary.

I know, I know. You've lived here a long time. Probably moved a dozen times. How many leases have you negotiated in the last 12 months?

jim_hones10
32 minutes ago
stop ignoring this person
report abuse ...I know, I know. You've lived here a long time. Probably moved a dozen times. How many leases have you negotiated in the last 12 months?

Seems like somewhere between 3 and 5. And that's just this year!

Browse online now with streeteasy to get a flavor of inventory and pricing. start visiting some places the second week of

January but leave your checkbook home. By late January prices of certain units will drop. winter is bad for landlords for new leases but there is an element of new year leasing that you want to be past. if doing the condo rental route, the board might take time and even might require 30 days and this is where you need to get the owner working and have a preview conversation with the board president

IInsist on language in the lease that says if not approved more than 2 weeks before movein that the lease has no effect. The owner must take personal responsibility for speeding things up.
in a regulations rental probably can go look early Feb. if they really won't let the place stay open until the end of he month, yes, there will be new inventory. some of this depends on price point as well as the type of rental situation.

But play your card right and understand the differences between February and even January but especially he summer months.

The buildings I have my eye on are condo buildings. I have always had straight-out rentals so am not sure all that is involved if I were to rent from an owner in condo/coop. Also, what is usually the FICO score they want? Should I plan for additional fees other than Security/1st months rent? What does the board look for when you go for interview for their approval and do 100% rentals have approval process? Thank you so much!

PS - ideally am looking for renovated alcove studio in high-rise under $3k.

I would just go the rental building route, forget the condo.. just my personal point of view based on your criteria and price point.

Splaken - thank you so much for your information. When you say Rental building route do you mean a building that is 100% rentals? Thanks again!

Condos will have application fees and move in fees. there won't be an interview. they are looking for some semblance of reliability, depending on how new and expensive the condo, eg 20 Pine probably has low standards but a 1990S condo probably hash higher standards because the tenants (residents) (owners) are more established there.

Sorry for typos.

Yes.

THanks Splaken. Yeah the bldgs I had an eye on were CitySpire and Sheffield (for location mostly).

Jim, I agree that most empty apartments shown are available today. The question is whether anyone will realistically take it today. The majority of move-ins occur on the 1st of the month. There's a fraction of the people who do move-ins mid-month, but even these leases are frequently re-synchronized to to the 1st as well (i.e., a 12.5-month lease). Happened to me in my first lease in NYC, requested by the landlord. It doesn't necessarily need to be that way, it just is. So, if you miss the 1st of the month in one month, chances are you won't have any interested parties for 30 days. The higher-end the place, the more this is the case. Might be different in the bread-and-butter market you deal with, I don't know.

In a rental building, I said that 2 weeks from signed lease to move-in is about right, so we agree on that. In condo buildings, the timeline is 30 days since the whole process is driven by condo-seekers who know that they have a 30-day right of first refusal waiver to deal with. With a coop, longer.

What fraction of the condos you've rented with a 30-day right of first refusal waiver had the lease signed 1 or 2 weeks prior to move-in? When you see condos 45 days out before the 1st of the next month, maybe 10% make any sort of indication that they'd like you to move in sooner, in 30 days on the 15th. You then say "yeah, but what about the board approval", which usually ends the conversation.

To answer your question, I've negotiated 8 leases over the past 15 months. Doesn't make me an expert, but enough to know which way is up.

I like what most of splaken said. However, I think you (kstiles99) should still look at & focus on condos. As I'm sure you've found, what you can find in a condo gives you much more bang for the buck even after broker & condo fees if you get a 2- or 3-year lease (with an exlusive right for you to terminate early). Do your homework in terms of filtering down the listings you like Jan 1-15. Contact and visit 10-20 Jan 15-20. Make offers & negotiate at least 3 places Jan 20-25. Get the paperwork taken care of Jan 25-30 and have signed lease.

On the approval, it's a "right of first refusal", and it only involves paperwork. This means that if the condo does not approve you, the condo must rent from the owner at that price. Rarely happens unless you're so underqualified that they dig up something such that the owner no longer wants you either. This is much different than a coop. The timeframe on paper is 30 days, but it is typically quoted at 2-3 weeks. Some places are quoted as quickly as 2-3 days. It might seem stressful, but don't worry: worst-case, you get rejected and are positioned to tell some rental building "I can move in 1 week", which buys you tremendous leverage.

In terms of offers, the market seems pretty soft at the moment, at least at the high-end where I'm at. All my first offers were 12.5% to 20% below ask, 3-year lease with exclusive right of first refusal by tenant after first year, no increases. One didn't move much so negotiations ended there, but the remaining 4 ended up at between 8% and 18% below ask, normalized to no increases.

Your part of the market might be different, so you might want to take two places you're only ho-hum about in your first few days of searching and put in a couple of "feeler" offers to see what the reaction will be to such terms. Try one at 10%, another at 15%. If they come back, you'll have a sense of what you can get away with. You'll perhaps be surprised at what you can get: the first time I did it, I was surprised.

Thank you so much inonada!! I def want a 2 yr lease and a 3 yr would prob be even better! I can't imagine i would be "so underqualified" to not be considered. Thank you also for that very helpful timeframe!