Change of broker

They could make a claim as the 'procuring' agent.

If you have not signed an agreement with that buyer's broker why don't you just make your offer directly to the listing broker.
You don't need another buyers broker. You don't need a representative, other than your RE attorney.
Sounds like the buyers broker you were being shown apts by, got on your nerves.

They only accompanied New2me to the apartment.
Then, at some point they got on New2me's nerves.

They didn't procure a buyer's agreement for New2me to sign, so they can now go procure a balony at Katz' deli and make themselves a holiday sandwich.

except truth could be wrong. and you could end up in litigation and with a lien against your newly acquired property. ho ho ho.

jim, how could it be wrong.
I'm willing to read your explaination.

I know somebody who decided not to use the buyer's broker who showed her some apartments.
That broker got on her nerves with phone calls day and night, showed up late for appointments
and generally was annoying.

She told her attorney and he advised her that since she never signed a buyers broker agreement that she could just stop responding to her phone calls and her attorney even called the buyers broker to tell her to stop
annoying his client.

She made an offer directly to the listing broker and the deal went through without litigation.

One of the most annoying things that buyers broker did was leave her standing in front of the building on a really hot summer day.
She was told to wait outside by the broker.
It was 97 degrees out.
She waited and shvitzed outside and called the broker's cell-phone twice, getting the broker's voice-mail.
She left a message both times informing the broker that she was standing outside the building and it was past the appointment time. No call-back from the buyers broker.

Finally she went inside and the listing agent was in there, with the keys.
She could have just gone up with the listing agent at that point but they waited another 10 minutes until the buyers broker arrived.

The buyers broker said: "Oh, I was across the street in the coffee shop on a phone call."

So jim, just explain to me how that buyers broker could have stopped the deal cold with litigation and why her RE attorney called the buyers broker to tell her to stop annoying his client?

I understand the idea of them having some sort of legal recourse as a "procuring" broker but am wondering if it truly has any practical application. As a buyer without a contract, (and because, ultimately, the commission comes from the proceeds of the sale (the seller, though I pay for it in the price paid too), how could they litigate against me? Loss of commission? Or would it be an issue between the seller's broker and my new representative?

But why do you need a new representative?
You have a RE attorney, make an offer.
You don't need to get another buyers broker.
Your attorney represents you.

I don't know how they could sue you, that was jim's input.
Also don't know how they could get a lien against your newly acquired property.
If anything, the listing broker would pay the annoying buyers broker just to get the deal to close.

Thank you all for the comments. I'm hearing what I think is just bluster coming out of the original broker. I made it clear that we would no longer be working together and that I have moved on but they are "claiming" certain apartments, perhaps just hoping that I will give up.

It is an interesting world. When I was looking a few years ago I was working with a broker who would send me listings of apartments to look at and then if there was an open house he would tell me to sign in with him as the broker even though he did not come with. I did make him come back when I wanted to look and then realized he was purely there for a commission as he was pushing me that the apartment had an offer close to the asking, which I had stated was impossible based on a sale just a few months prior. So we passed on this apartment to purchase a new condo where we represented ourselves. He then attempted to get us to let him take over our bidding in order to get the commission, which I told him was no where near necessary.

In this day and age I see both sides of wanting to use a buyers broker, however if you are able to see most of the listings and willing to go at it alone then there is just no reason as the sellers broker will help with whatever package as they want the deal to get done and their commission.

Also I believe any issues they do have when they believe they are entitled to the commission would be between the claiming buyers broker and the sellers broker.

Mikev is correct. I have read cases where brokers make a claim against a seller to collect a commission on an apartment where they may have been involved at some point. At a closing recently this actually came up on the title/lien? search, fortunately it was a mistake (different apartment). Whether they had a rightful claim to this I don't know.

That said this is why when I first speak to clients I tell them (and will put in writing if requested) that just by putting my name down on an open house sign in sheet we don't feel entitled to a commission. Our clients are told up front they can terminate us at any time, for any reason regardless of how much work/time we have spent on a deal. I am only pointing this out as our buyers model is different. It has been designed based on my 24 years as a broker/agent, listening to clients and asking them questions about their likes, wants from their broker.

Happy Holidays!

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

ALRIGHT, KeithB!

That's fair, honest and decent.

I was correct and New2me doesn't need anyone other than his/her RE attorney to "represent" him/her.
(Never did and certainly doesn't now).

frumpy (truth), is that how you did it in bay ridge?

^^wbottom/yikes trolls first thing in the morning.
What's he talking about?
He's envious that I live in Bay Ridge and have a lifestyle he could never afford.
Time to write the alimony check, wbottom/yikes.

"frumpy" is his new attempted insult.
He's a bitter middle-aged divorced guy. Grumpy.

KeithB - How do you protect yourself from bad faith on potential buyer's part? If your firm has done work on a property with a buyer, can the buyer terminate the relationship/representation prior to closing without paying you anything or does some alternative fee structure kick in, such as compensating your firm for work done on an hourly basis?

spoken as a true attorney.

does it occur to you that his business model is such that there is no reason for people to do this?

does it occur to you that the majority of people will deal fairly if dealt with fairly?

do you realize that he and his firm are the only brokers universally praised on this site?

CC - I like your world view in which there would be no need for contracts or attorneys. I like what I do and try to use the limited talent I have for good. My clients, many of whom fully admit they don't like attorneys, are happy to have an attorney by their side when they need one. Again, I would prefer a world where there were no need for lawyers or police; unfortunately that is not the world we live in. I don't know if you know KeithB or know enough to speak for him, but you appear to be stating that he in fact does allow clients to terminate at any time with no quantum meruit compensation.

KeithB isn't paid by his hiring client but by someone else in the transaction chain. If a client wants to terminate KeithB it would be for reasons outside a desire not to pay him, which I would imagine if it did occur (perceptions of his possible incompetence), he is comfortable he can mitigate those chances.

Here is the absurd scenario: Buyer has a relative who is a new broker and struggling financially. Buyer has no confidence in broker relative's competence, but wants to assist said relative. Buyer hires KeithB for his experience and advice regarding appropriate price, bidding strategy, navigating board, etc. KeithB takes buyer through the bulk of the process on desired unit. Buyer then terminates relationship with KeithB and hires relative to close the deal with same fee rebate as buyer had agreed to with KeithB. End result for buyer is same financially with added plus that buyer has assisted relative. KeithB has been taken for a ride. If KeithB feels no need to protect himself from this scenario because the likelihood of its coming to pass is low, I have zero problem with that. I ride my bike without a helmet all the time and sometimes don't wear my seatbelt. I am not judging; I am just trying to fully understand the business model.

NYCNovice: We allow clients to "fire us" for any reason at any time with no financial recourse. I am happy to say that it has not happened to date, but we stand by this. We really live by the motto "serve our clients highest and best interests". By adhering to this along with our service model that includes the clients every step of the way we have achieved a 100% level of customer satisfaction. (Will we always be perfect, I only hope so).

I am happy to say the vast majority of people we deal with; attorneys, brokers/agents,lenders, buyers as well as the sellers are all terrific to know and do business with. Sure there are a few rotten apples out there and the very overworked managing agents can be trying at times, but for the most part it's all good.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

@NYCNovice I also always advise my clients to listen to their attorneys:)

KeithB - Thank you for the response; I love both the model and your attitude.

nothing like yet another absurd hypothetical from an avenging lawyer.

What did you think he meant when Keith posted "Our clients are told up front they can terminate us at any time, for any reason regardless of how much work/time we have spent on a deal."

Except for special occasions as necessary?

CC - Your comment just made me laugh out loud. I do like you. I am imagining a cute, elderly gentleman, sitting at his computer, seeing my post and then saying to himself - "There she is!!! MUST think of something to say to her." I imagine you trying so hard to think of something clever, "What can I say to her to make her think I am as smart and clever as Huntersburg? How, oh how can I win her affection?" The answer is still no, but please keep trying.

you certainly have a high opinion of yourself, don't you? I find you revoltingly smug. enjoy yourself.

Columbiacounty, what is your opinion of yourself?

Re CC's last comment to NYCNovice the audience thinks to itself: "and yet, he pursues her relentlessly, comments on her every comment, hangs on her every word. What a creep." Or perhaps the audience is thinking, "Well of course she has a high opinion of herself with all the attention she is receiving from someone as charismatic, brilliant and funny as CC."

Hi HB.

Or perhaps the audience is thinking what AR just came out and said when CC started stalking NYCNovice on another thread, reproduced below for convenient reference:

"aboutready
about 3 months ago
Posts: 15099
Member since: Oct 2007
ignore this person
report abuse
Thumbs Up Thumbs Down

What's not to like? You're adding meaningful discussion about a NYC real estate topic. Anyone who judges someone by how much money they make, whether or not they rent/own, or whether they ride the bus is an asshole."

as much as you obviously want to, i can't engage this evening. i find the news extremely depressing--feeling a need to focus on my family.

As opposed to normally?