Is this simply not done?

What do you mean by you'll pay "market".

Keep in mind that as soon as you express interest in a non-listed unit the owner will expect a 'make me move' price from you. There's no harm in trying, though.

Fieldschester - By "market", I mean a fair market value based on recent comps/sales.

Squid - I hear you. My thought was that I might have some luck in reaching out to folks who have listed before and have not had success in selling for reasons other than price (market timing, need to sell in order to purchase the next place etc) and have just not gone through the effort/process of re-listing.. As long as I was at it, and knew the lines, I thought it might be worth a stamp or two to approach similar unit owners. My concern is that this kind of approach would be frowned-upon in general.

I say go for it - what's the worst that could happen?

I cannot answer that question. The GV real estate market is hot hot hot again. Look at the prices at the Brevoort East too. Post war units asking over $1.5 for one bedrooms. Makes me very happy in terms of what this means for my own RE value, but .... Wow. The desire to own in what is perceived as a AAA area is strong enough among so many people that the market is clearly saying premium pricing is warranted. The market is saying that if you don't want to pay this premium for ownership, then don't. Someone else will.

There's nothing at all wrong with this approach. If they are on the fence, they might appreciate the offer to sell , cut out brokers and make a little more. That said, I get these kind of offers in the mail all the time from brokers and get very annoyed with the solicitations and junk mail

I ,too, have received those postcards/letters from brokers, effectively asking if you are looking to list as a seller. My (admittedly biased) perspective was that I am not cold calling and asking to make a commission. Crazy? Though it may not sound it, I am sensitive to privacy concerns and good manners. Just trying to think creatively !

Wools. Posted on wrong thread.

>Fieldschester - By "market", I mean a fair market value based on recent comps/sales.

On the one hand, you say there is no market - no supply of what you want - and on the other hand, you want to pay as if there is a robust buyer's market with sufficient recent comps and sales history. Basically you want the seller to give you exclusive private access but you don't want to pay for it. I think your approach will fall flat unless you determine that you are willing to offer a sufficiently attractive price to induce the seller to go out of his way for you with a private deal. Even if the seller is about to list his place, if I were the seller, I'd most likely use your interest as leverage with others, including with the brokers that the seller is interested in hiring.

We've become disconnected. I did not say there is no market. Also, I am not looking to pay below what the apartment would sell for if the seller listed it and got a "market" price (a price about where similar apartments have sold). I was asking of a potential seller might be interested in selling his / her apartment to someone who reached out to them and said, "If you are considering selling your apartment, I would be an interested buyer - well qualified, willing to pay where comps have sold and am flexible in closing date." My intent is to possibly encourage someone thinking of selling to move forward and to ensure that I am involved early. I am not attempting to get a deal; I am attempting to have an opportunity to buy an apartment in a line and building that I like.

I don't think it could hurt. I'd suggest a nice card or note stock to differentiate yourself from junk mail & the pros.

But New2Me, I'm the owner, not quite a seller. Now I haven't even listed the apartment and I have proof of demand from a qualified buyer. And there's nothing out there competitive that is currently listed. Imagine if I just list it with a broker, I'll have you, and then find all the others. Market ... no way ... I expect somewhat of a bidding war and a premium to prior listings given the tightness of the market and the clear pre-existing qualified demand for my place. Heck, I'm going to even play you by telling you some nonsensical story about how my spouse insisted on listing it with the broker because of their relationship or other bullcrap, but I think you are the most qualified buyer and I really appreciated the note you sent me on really nice paper because really nice paper is important to me and that really differentiates you and I want you to win and I'll even help you out by quietly telling you what the others are offering, because yes, now unfortunately I have several others out there expressed real interest above "market," and if you could just bump your price a little ... and a little more, and again just a bit more

Your suggested approach above marks you as a sucker. You'll probably hire Ali who will throw a tantrum which will just indicate to me that you have more room to pay. Meanwhile I'm playing like w67thsteet and getting you to bump your offer several times ... after all, its the perfect place and if this sells to someone else you won't be sure of your strategy on another apartment plus my place will be off market for another X years.

But if you came to me upfront and offered the premium price to begin with...

The only thing you have to lose is time, stamps and probably being contacted by brokers. Add a note that this would save the seller the 6% commission and you have provided them with some incentive. Good luck!

>Add a note that this would save the seller the 6% commission and you have provided them with some incentive.

What a ridiculous suggestion, the 6% is so obvious, so to point it out ... a buyer telling a seller he's saving on costs is a buyer who is low-balling.

Hb, every one is clearly not as brilliant as you are or spend every waking moment of their lives on a RE forum. So while you think it might be superfluous it does no harm and may give someone sufficient motive to pick up the phone.

Thank you all for your responses. Clearly there are some differences of opinion.

I do feel comfortable that, using various resources available to us all ,such as StreetEasy, I can arrive at price based on comps that I would be willing to pay. Should the shareholder decide to engage a broker and list publicly, it's true that someone else may find it to be worth more to them. That's life. No place is perfect and I don't get emotionally invested until a contract is signed (and even then, there is the Board to consider).

Also, just because one pro-actively expresses interest in something - in this case an apartment - doesn't mean he or she is willing to pay above market. The simple lack of supply of something, doesn't mean its doesn't have a market price above which, despite there being few or no others on the market at the moment, one won't pay. I might not be able to find a first edition "Catcher in the Rye" right now, but that doesn't mean that it is worth an infinite amount of money.

As I said, I'm just trying to be creative. drdrd- Good suggestion on the card/note.

And Field, were I looking in an area in which Ali specializes, I certainly would consider utilizing her services. She seems like a lovely, talented and informed professional.

And yes, I realize that there are semantics galore around the use of "market" but I think that I'm using it in a common way and not trying to be clever.

Sure, it's worth a try. can't hurt.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

It is absolutely worth a shot just be prepared to pay at minimum whatever is deemed as "market price" but leave open the possibility that your price is not a final price necessarily. All you want to do is get the conversation started.

>Ottawanyc
about 11 hours ago
Posts: 682
Member since: Aug 2011
ignore this person
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Hb, every one is clearly not as brilliant as you are or spend every waking moment of their lives on a RE forum. So while you think it might be superfluous it does no harm and may give someone sufficient motive to pick up the phone.

Ottawa, you sound like a sore loser embarrassed by his own stupid suggestion. I thought Canadians were more, well, what's the appropriate word for you Canadians?

>And Field, were I looking in an area in which Ali specializes, I certainly would consider utilizing her services. She seems like a lovely, talented and informed professional.

Certainly lovely is important. She's acknowledged being out there following the "rules" of best and final, and missing the bigger picture of how deals are done, and therefore losing and throwing a tantrum. http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/36512-best-and-final "Losing bidders throw tantrums all the time (and when I'm repping on the buy side, I certainly help my clients do that too!)"

>And yes, I realize that there are semantics galore around the use of "market" but I think that I'm using it in a common way and not trying to be clever.

Right, and you are either (a) setting yourself up to lose, (b) going to pay significantly above what you otherwise could if you approached the situation right from the start, or (c) going to completely waste time and your emotions. If your goal from the outset here is to get the property with lesser effort and on a reasonable basis that gets the deal done, you are going about the wrong process.

Hi NYCNovice: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/36043-make-me-move-feature

Hi HB- I am generally on same page as you, but wouldn't be so hard on others with a more optimistic view of the world. :-)

Thanks for the compliment New. /ali

>but wouldn't be so hard on others with a more optimistic view of the world. :-)

How optimistic with the "others" be when they lose?

You are a litigator. You ought to know better. Optimism doesn't win cases. Hard work and shrewd strategy do.

Dear Seller,

I have a Groupon, and I printed it on nice paper.

Sincerely,

Ottawanyc
Subject of the Queen

HB - Not disagreeing with you; I just put others' strategy in the sincere "best of luck to you" pile. Also minor clarification, I don't want my comments to be interpreted as having any poor opinion of front_porch. To the contrary, I am an Ali fan and once again commend her for her unyielding professionalism and participation in this forum.

you protest too much

HB -I just realized that you thought "New2me" was one of my screen names. Not an unreasonable thought given content, but not accurate. I thought you knew me better than that. I believe anyone seeking something that is not listed must be prepared to pay premium. However, I also see no harm in New2me's approach and do wish him/her a sincere best of luck. My belief that s/he will not be able to get anything at "market" as defined above based on approach s/he suggests does not make it so.

I think the potential "savings" of 6% will be eaten up by the buyer's added negotiating power based on the fact they wouldn't be moving without your sale.

If you want to get creative, I'd try to find a way to identify people trying to sublet their co-op/rent their condo and convince them why it would be better to sell.

>I think the potential "savings" of 6% will be eaten up by the buyer's added negotiating power based on the fact they wouldn't be moving without your sale.

Yes, but there was a Groupon, and it was printed on nice paper.

Any update from NYCNovice how this worked out for New2me?

Sounds like a good idea (for unsold previously listed apts). I know someone who contacted a broker of an unlisted previously listed property and they got it...admittedly for only about 5 percent off asking. I'm thinking of Stalking funerals Elaine Dennis-style.

Any proposition, needs to be couched as a win-win. They should feel comfortable that they are going to better off than they otherwise would have been. You need to feel comfortable that you are not paying significantly above market. However, if you want to narrow yourself down to a particular line in a particular apartment building, you may need to feel comfortable paying 3-5% above recent closes. a 10% uptick (after factoring in the commission save) to current market may be suffiicient to get you the deal.

The trade-off for "overpaying" is that you lessen the risk of losing out and being out-bid. I got outbid twice and ultimately broadened my search to a wider area and ultimtately ended up with a place needing renovation which I'd originally not intended. In retrospect, would it have hurt to have bid 3-5% above on the first place and locked it in? It depends on whether this transaction is driven more by the heart or the wallet. I'm sure that financially, the place we found will be a better deal. However, will we be happier etc....?

It's worth a shot, but it's HIGHLY unlikely you'll get a response from anyone who won't charge you a premium.

YOU are approaching THEM, not the other way around. They have the upper hand. They're not looking to move anyway. It's a hassle to move. It's a hassle just to FIND a new place and go through all that shopping/bidding/negotiating BS on THEIR end.

If someone approached me out of the blue to buy my apartment (for argument's sake, let's say valued at $700K), my response would be "Sure. It's yours for $1.5 million."

I don't give a rat's ass about comps. That's what it would be worth to ME to go through the hassle of moving out of a home I'm not looking to leave.

I'd be surprised if most other people wouldn't feel the same way.

The op mentioned previously listed delisted apts, which implies potential sellers were already thinking of moving or are already retired to Flaw-rida and are tired of paying maintenance fees on a property they rarely visit anymore.

I'm actually trying this out and we'll see what happens...

>The op mentioned

The original poster mentioned it, but not in the original post.

Woops. Thx. I stand corrected.