Chicago is overrated

agreed

Chicago is a crap-hole!

LOL! your jealousy of Chicago is amusing. I just got in; we went to a bunch of bars in greenwich and east village. They were terrible. Almost no attractive girl in sight. The nightlife scene here is sh*tty compared to Chicago. I'm sorry that the truth hurts.

yes, well, how were the boys?

I remember Chicago. Lots of divorcees looking for action, but they were all rode hard and put away wet.

Chicago is lame. Nice people, but midwestern and lame.

if Chicago is so "lame," why does it have the most attractive and interesting architecture in the country? why does Chicago have some of the best reataurants in the country, such as alinea, charlie trotter, tru, blackbird, everest, moto?

NYC has been declining for some time, and Chicago has overtaken us. When it wins the 2016 Olympics bid, this trend will only accelerate.

Please visit Chicago before talking such nonsense.

yes, the olympics. Beiing and Chicago are now the coolest cities on earth. Its all hot chicks and cool bars in China!

Beijing also has some great architecture.

Lets all move there

as I recall, NYC's olympics bid failed miserably because the city was too dirty, messy, and grimy, for the IOC committee's tastes.

I toss Chicago into the same bucket as Minneapolis, Detroit, Pittsburgh

In other words, sometimes you have to fly through Chicago.

Chicago is also where you have to go for friends and family obligations - weddings, bar mitzvah's, etc. You don't go to Chicago merely to visit your friends. Your friends from Chicago come here.

Remind me, why are we even talking about Chicago?

"as I recall, NYC's olympics bid failed miserably because the city was too dirty, messy, and grimy, for the IOC committee's tastes."

now he has to resort to lying?

jeez, rufus, anyone with a brain knows its because there was MAJOR opposition to building the olympic stadium. the IOC said that.

BTW, you're telling me that Beijin isn't the grimiest city in existence? IOC seemed to have no problem with that...

Rufus, you still haven't answered... if Chicago is so great, how come no one wants to live there? Why is demand so low that prices are, what, a third of NYC and half of other good cities?

Chicago is nice, but isn't not a cosmopolitan city like NY.

Any "dirt and grime" in NYC is part of the fact that we are a real urban area.

If you want a sterile location with a lot of people vs. a city, Chicago is great. I like to visit there and do business there. But I would be without personality if I lived there.

nyc10022, the reason why Chicago rent is so much cheaper than NYC is because they have a high supply of good apartments, as opposed to NYC. it's just simple supply and demand. unlike NYC, Chicago doesn't have stupid regulations and rent stabilization, which allows them to build a lot of high-quality residential buildings.

NYC is NOT more expensive because it is better than Chicago. That is an urban myth.

Chicago is a good city, but it is not anywhere near as great as NYC. There are a few nightlife areas, but nothing like NYC, there are way more homeless people all over, and the weather sucks. I'm not saying Chicago is bad, but it is not NYC.

> it's just simple supply and demand. unlike

Yes, exactly, no one demands to live in Chicago.

And if you think its a supply issue, sorry to tell you, but NYC has FAR more inventory, and even the "cheap" places in NYC are more expensive than Chicago. QUEENS is more expensive than Chicago.

So, NYC has MORE suppply, but WAAAAY more demand..

BTW, you're telling me that Beijin isn't the grimiest city in existence? IOC seemed to have no problem with that...

nyc10022, have you even been to Beijing? I just got back no less than 24 hours ago. Beijing is quite nice actually. A bit sterile for my tastes. Don't mistake it for the rest of China.

Hey Rufus, please explain why Chicago was -67,000 (NEGATIVE) population growth and New York City gained 250,000 in the past decade or so? Why is Chicago in the negatives? Chicago is dirt cheap, but nobody wants to live there!

If Chicago is this great, why are people fleeing the city?

Hint: Chicago is ugly, Chicago is a giant ghetto (60% of Chicago is "South Side), the people are ugly, the mid-west is ugly, Chicago is for poor losers who can't afford/make it in New York and to put it bluntly, Chicago is a place where us New Yorkers simply fly over.

When is the last time you've heard of a New Yorker visiting Chicago (unless it were for business)? Face it, Chicago is a place people forget exists. To most, even Los Angeles is a better city than Chicago that's why it already surpassed declining Chicago! There is no city in the United States that has lost more people than Chicago! LOL!!

P.S. drop the act that you live in New York. You don't; You live in Chicago and are envious that even the Bronx has neighborhoods (Riverdale) which are better looking and more higher-end than prime Gold Coast Chicago real estate! Like a poster mentioned, even Queens is more expensive than Chicago!

But Chicago has cool people, like Jerry Springer, Oprah, and Barack Obama!

I'll give Chicago Barack Obama, but Chicago is still a place for rejects who cant make it in New York.

Chicago has the Sears Tower. We have a hole in the ground. If Mayor Daley was the mayor of NYC, he would NEVER allow Ground Zero to sit vacant for 7 years!

Now THIS is how you run a city:

Chicago Officials Order Overnight Airport Demolition

The City of Chicago and Chicago Park District closed downtown commuter airport Meigs Field March 30 in an overnight operation, citing homeland security as the main motivation for the swift action. Demolition equipment operated by a local general contractor rolled into the 55-year-old airfield shortly before midnight and began tearing up its 3,899-ft-long runway with a series of large "X" gouges in the asphalt, preventing small planes from taking off or landing. "We did it for public safety," says Mayor Richard M. Daley, whose action has been called "one of the boldest moves in the mayor's career." No public notice had been given.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/884787/posts

The airports and Ground Zero are owned and controlled by the Port Authority of NY and NJ. The Mayor of NYC has no control over it whatsoever.

"NYC is NOT more expensive because it is better than Chicago. That is an urban myth." --> checked snopes; no corroboration.

So Rufus, you just got back from Chi. How was your consultation with http://www.nmh.org/nmh/adam/adamencyclopedia/HIEArticles/003324.htm ? Is there any hope at all for you?

And I see you celebrated your return by going to Greenwich. I believe the better nightlife near Greenwich is in Port Chester. Greenwich is more the quiet residential sort of place.

I just got back from Philly. I really like Philly -- it reminds me of Chicago.

Chicago is the poor man's Philly.

alpine292 is right. Chicago is more efficient and has better buildings than NYC. We have a hole in the ground while Chicago is building some of the most innovative and attractive highrises in the country. Even their Trump International is way better than the one in central park west.

The nice parts of Chicago are way cleaner and better than NYC. This city is mainly full of old and worn down buildings while Chicago is modern, sleek, and sophisticated. NYC is in decline; I'm sorry that you guys just can't accept that fact.

Girls talk back to you in Chicago!
It's a wonderful thing.

Rufus, you don't live in New York so drop the act.

Chicago is modern? Chicago is OLD, crappy and worn out. I've been to Chicago many times and I seriously am just confused where you get these BS claims from. And the nice parts of Chicago are not nicer in any stretch of the imagination than New York's nice parts.

First of all, there are 6x more high-rises in NYC than there are in Chicago and even if we didn't have all these skyscrapers, I hate to break it to you but high-rises does not = nice. That's like saying Chicago looks better than Paris because there are more high-rises in Chicago. LOL!!! If high-rises = sophistication and attractive to you then you are void of any taste.

In summary; Chicago is ugly and way behind NYC. Sophistication and Chicago don't belong in the same sentence, blue-collar is a better description of Chicago.

"Girls talk back to you in Chicago!"

Yeah, but girls sleep with you in NYC.

Who the hell wants to hear girls talk back?

NYC can be compared to London and Paris, not Chicago.

I think everyone on this board has a need to justify the insane prices they pay to live in NYC.....Chicago is a great town and costs about 1/3 or 1/4 the cost of living in NYC with comparable salaries (Philly does not even compare to NYC salaries). Don't live there now, but have been many times and would seriously consider the move from NYC. It just isn't worth it to live here anymore.

anon3, great point! People here are miserable about the expenses and low quality of living and need to justify that fact by incessantly talking about how "sophisticated" NYC is. Chicago offers everything NYC does but is cleaner, cheaper, and more livable.

this "debate" reminds me of a "debate" between first-graders over which color is better, blue or green. That said, I do have a couple of questions...

Rufus, you were (supposedly) out for a night of drinking in NYC on a Friday night and saw no atractive girls? Are you insane? Back me up, ladies...

Second: "Chicago is a great town and costs about 1/3 or 1/4 the cost of living in NYC with comparable salaries"

What exactly is thare in Chicago that costs 1/4 of what it would cost in NYC? Rent on a comp place? Gas? Food? RE taxes? Income taxes? A dinner at a nice restaurant? Public transpirtation? A Corona at the local bar?

rufus, you seem extremely naive. You have a "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" view of things. Chicago is not cleaner. Go outside of the main business area and away from Millenium Park and it gets grimy fast. The museums are great, but second rate when compared to NY. There are way more homeless everywhere. The architecture is great, I agree, but there are not nearly as many iconic buildings in Chicago as in NY. The cost of housing is a reflection of demand, and NYC is in more demand than Chicago.

BGaria, in all fairness to Rufus, he said that during a night out drinking when he was visiting NYC, there were no attractive girls *who would talk to him*.

Dude, Chicago stinks! I've never been so afraid in my life until we tried to take your public transportation, i.e. your version of the subways. We did it one time and decided to take the taxi after that. There's barely any light on the station and the subways are like the 1980s in NYC. Aren't they strapped for funds? Cuz when I was there that's basically what's on the news...unfortunately for us, we heard the news after we actually tried it.

Oh yeah, there's definitely a lot of homeless folks out there.

The el platforms are like old-fashioned roller-coasters -- deliberately built out of thin splintery wood to look as rickety and scary as possible, because the thrill of fear is what you're paying for. Do they still have little french-fry warmers above the bus shelters that they so brilliantly perch atop the platforms? And add cut outs to the bottom and top of the wall part, so that no heat can be retained?

And food: I'm sorry, but I don't consider a hotdog sandwich with fifteen toppings to be haut cuisine. Whenever you order anything else throughout the city, they ask "You want cheese on that?" (from a pump!!!). The one exception is that disgusting gloppy rendition of pizza, and to add insult to injury, they eat pizza with a fork and knife. They probably consider it an exotic European dish. A deep one.

Hey, dude. I was born and raised in Chicago (Winnetka) and you really need to stop with all the lies. I've been throughout the entire Chicago and the region and first of all, Chicago is not clean and not cleaner than NYC.

Maybe you should step out of that tiny Gold Coast region and actually look around. (1) Chicago does NOT have better architecture than NYC. When is the last time you've seen Chicago's iconic buildings plastered in the media and postcards? Rarely. NYC is the most photographed city in the country for a reason. (2) Chicago does not have 1/10th the sophistication of New York City. Someone nailed it on the head; Chicago is a very blue-collar city...very gritty and run-down. Again, do you ever venture outside the 2 mile Gold Coast? In reality, NY has 100X more nice neighborhoods than Chicago.

I really have a hard time believing you live in New York City because honest to God, for the two years I've been to NYC, I've never ever heard anyone say the word "Chicago" (People in Chicago constantly talk about NYC, though), so this constant Chicago talk and your false claims really contradict your claims.

Here is the easiest way for folks here to understand this...

Chicago is like Hoboken. Everyone there claims that it is better than New York, and "liveable" and "upscale" and all these great adjectives, but no one is listening, because they are in Hoboken.

Don't forget that in Chicago, cows and lamps DO NOT mix!

nyc10022, that is the most perfect analogy.

Thanks.

michaelkyleh, you're so full of sh*t. Anyone who thinks Chicago is not cleaner than NYC is an idiot. Chicago has alleys, so you don't see garbage bags lying around on street corners, like third-world countries. The buildings in Chicago are much more modern and sleek than NYC ones. Go around on lakeshore east, streeterville, or river north, and take a look at all the luxur high-rise apartments. Then say with a straight face that NYC looks nicer than Chicago.

I have not met a single new yorker who can justify the cost of living in NYC. Out of all the major cities, Chicago is the best bang for your buck.

Chicago certainly leads NY in one respect: murder per capita

Courtesy of the FBofI, here's a nifty table. The right column shows the murder ranking. Detroit, of course, is number one. In fact, the top five are those cities too foolish to have strong rent controls in place for the second half of the 20th century; thus the middle-class had no real incentive to hang out while the federal government drained their cities of money to subsidize the burbs, south and west.

But I digress. Chicago is ranked 20th in murder. New York is 50th. Maybe it's just a matter of supply and demand. "Anyways" (as Rufus says):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

By the way, I thought Chicago had > 3 million residents. Is it shrinking or something?

RUFUS,

As I've said, I've lived in Chicago and in no way does it look better than NYC. In no way is Chicago architecture better than New York City. You like "modern" luxury high-rises? It's funny, there are probably more modern sleek high-rises in Battery Park City than the entire city of Chicago.

Chicago is a small, worthless, ugly cesspool and as I've said you must live in Chicago because nobody in New York City ever mentions Chicago.

Jealousy is a bad thing.

alanhart, the population of Chicago is shrinking. I just read that link Chicago's population "growth" is in the negatives by 76,000.

Chicago has lost more people than any other large city in the United States. That in itself speaks volumes. I'm one of the people who fleed from the run-down Chicagoland area.

Actually, I think NYC is overrated. Is NYC a more diverse city than Chicago? Yes. Are there more bars? Yes. There are simply more people. Chicago is not NYC, but quite frankly the neighborhoods are quite a lot nicer place than Williamsburg or any overpriced Brooklyn neighborhood and cost a fraction of the price. EVERYTHING is cheaper in Chicago than NYC - no city income tax, lower RE taxes, lower rents, lower food prices, lower energy costs, lower transportation costs. Would I rather live in NYC for the same price? Yes, but not for 4x the price. I looked at condos last time I visited Chicago and for a million bucks you could buy a 3 bedroom penthouse in a luxury building in a nice neighborhood. Here you're lucky to get a crappy 1 bedroom place in a new building. NYC is too expensive and just not worth it anymore from my perspective, having lived on both coasts I can tell you that people in both CA and NYC feel a need to JUSTIFY the price they pay to live in both places by putting down less expensive locations - most have never even visited. I tend to think people in NYC are not as sophisticated as they think, as many of them have rarely left NYC or the east coast and simply live by the mantra that no place is better than New York. NYC is great, but it is not the only great place in the world to live, and quite frankly has a terrible quality of life these days with the crowds and expenses associated with living here. I think Chicago looks like a great option honestly.

Hello!
Chicago is filled with happy milk fed moon faced pretty blond girls. When you say hello to them...now get this...they say hello back! I rest my case. Take that New York.

anon3, you once again hit the nail on the coffin. the vast majority of NYC neighborhoods are terribly overrated. places like williamsburg, battery park city, murray hill, are nowhere close to Chicago neighborhoods like gold coast, river north, lincoln park. Chicago is so much cheaper but is cleaner, more pleasant, and more livable than NYC. Plus, it has everything that a big city can offer: amazing restaurants, awesome nightlife, cultural amenities, interesting people. People in NYC suffer from a complex whereby they're forced to tell themselves that their sacrifices are worth it.

michaelkyleh, you have no idea what you're talking about. battery park city condos are UGLY; they all look the same, and are horribly bland. Lakeshore east and streeterville has more luxury high-rise apartments than all of downtown manhattan. Are you sure you grew up in Chicago? Seriously doubting your assertion since your knowledge of the city is so off base.

rufus, you mean Bob (Newhart) Hartley's apartment?

And is Chicago's population shrinking only by the number of people who are murdered there, or is some of it reflective of something else? For example, do they want to be in Houston when it surpasses Chi as the 3rd largest US city; or perhaps they're moving to the Dallas Metro area to be there when it surpasses the Chicagoland as the third largest metro area?

All told, it just seems very sad.

alanhart, once again you fail to address my points because you know i'm right about NYC's old and grimy buildings. If you want to see what a modern attractive city looks like, you should visit Chicago sometime.

regarding population, a lot of poor people are leaving Chicago because it has gotten too gentrified. It's sad that I can't say the same about NYC.

If I want to see what a modern attractive city looks like, I'll visit Dubai. I've already lived in Chicago.

Maybe they can make an exception for you (you are exceptional) and space your ECT treatments closer together.

alanhart, what part of Chicago did you live in? why did you decide to move out of that amazing city?

Cop slain while trying to serve search warrant
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1190613,CST-NWS-copshot29.article

alanhart, you must miss the clean streets, lake michigan, grant/millennium park, and all the nice buildings in Chicago. I feel bad for anyone who had to move from Chicago to NYC.

rufus -- I lived on the north side, one building from the lake. That's as specific as I'll get, and more than you deserve.

I moved from Chicago because I saw something that really scared the bajeezuz out of me.

rufus, orbitz, embrace it.

alanhart, you crack me up. you probably moved out of Chicago because you had a hard time making friends and didn't fit into the social scene there. So you came to NYC, where you can meet other freaks and geeks.

I've travelled to almost every major city in the world, and with the exception of the asian cities like tokyo and singapore, i have not been to a cleaner and more modern city than Chicago. Everyone else agrees with me on this point as well.

I moved from Chicago because I saw something that really scared the bajeezuz out of me.

"Everyone else agrees with me on this point as well."

Really? Everyone?

you mean, you actually saw hot girls and got scared because you couldn't get them?

don't forget the state income tax of 3% flat rate. however, chicago does have 10.25% sales tax. what a joke. i moved from chicago to new york 3 years ago. i have never looked back. however, what i pay in rent is easily a very luxury condo mortgage pmt for a 3bd/3ba overlooking the lake in a prime chicago neighborhood.

rufus, you made a typo, but to answer your question, yes I saw hog girls, but that's not what I'm referring to.

cost of living: I guess we could all buy a pound of tin for much less than we pay for an ounce of gold. And?

alanhart, that's nonsense. the prime areas of Chicago are better than prime Manhattan. Can you please tell me what areas of NYC are better than living in a luxury highrise condo overlooking lake michigan?

Chicago is too dirty to make this recent Forbes America's Cleanest Cities list. But they do say "major metro areas losing residents over that period tend to rank near the bottom of the cleanliness list; they include Philadelphia, ***Chicago***, Buffalo, N.Y., and Detroit."

http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/17/miami-seattle-orlando-biz-logistics-cx_tvr_0317cleanest.html

sure: upper east, upper west, west village, east village, tribeca, soho, lower east side, williamsburg, brooklyn heights, cobble hill, chelsea, gramercy, financial district, harlem, murray hill, morningside heights, inwood, flushing, coney island, bensonhurst, bedford stuyvesant

evillager, you're just being facetious. most of the neighborhoods you just mentioned are barely livable and resemble third-world countries.

if you visited the parts of Chicago i'm referring to, you would change your mind. but you're insane if you think living in a dirty crowded place like soho or lower east side, beats living in a nice clean neighborhood next to lake michigan.

you're right. I was joking about murray hill.

But Murray Hill is where rufus stays when he visits his "friends" from his home in the Indiana suburbs of Chicago.

what's so great about lower east side, williamsburg, cobble hill? those places are dumps.

c'mon now. let's get a little realistic. prime chicago neighborhoods would rank nicely between chelsea on the high end to murray hill on low end.

I moved from Chicago because I saw something that really scared the bajeezuz out of me.

so rufus, seriously, you don't live here, right? if you do, where do you live?

i live in upper west side. it's hilarious that you guys think i don't live here just because i'm critical of the city.

so still living in your parents apartment?

I'll take the view of someone born and raised in Chicago over rufus' anyday.

And to the rest of you: "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". - Mark Twain

you know what I love about the ev and les? it scares away people like rufus.

streakeasy, evillager was just being foolish. nobody really believes that lower east side or williamsburg is more desirable than gold coast, river north, or lincoln park.

> what's so great about... cobble hill? those places are dumps.

OK, now I'm certain that rufus isn't even in NYC.

"Cobble Hill" a "dump"?

You are talking about basically the nicest protected historic townhouses in the city...

Now, Williamsburg is a dump, but rufus doesn't get that people pay extra for cool dumps. Chicago wishes it had artists...

absolutely foolish to believe billyburg, LES, or even Hell's Kitchen to be more desirable than chicago's gold coast.

i would venture to say that the even the top restaurants in chicago are on par with some of new york's top restaurants easily.

He doesn't live in NY, and has probably never been here. Nobody who's visited even for a weekend would say "i live in upper west side." Do you see the mainlander's usage in that phrase?

ok - but the second part of my last msg still stands. . .not worth the trouble of responding.

Of course you're right, girlygirl77. It never was worth the trouble.

But I like to think that it keeps him off the streets. Occupational therapy. Solving the mental health problems of flyover country one head case at a time.

rufus, how old are you anyway? I'm under the impression you're in your 20s. All my friends in chicago live in bucktown or ukranian village (which are kind of like the les or williamsburg, except not as nice, ironically). saying you want to like in lincoln park or the gold coast is like moving to nyc and living in the UES. sure, it's nice, but depends on your stage of life...

evillager, bucktown has really come into its own. very nice part of the city. ukranian village (west town) is shoddy and wouldn't even be worth mentioning. bucktown is just as nice (or even nicer) than LES or billyburg.

bucktown has become gentrified and is cleaner and nicer than les or williamsburg. only artists and freaks want to live in those two neighborhoods.

"only artists and freaks want to live in those two neighborhoods."

Lovely. When's the last time you were in either? 1987? That is a gross misconception.

never

rufus, i've been trying to back up my home city, but unfortunately your remarks are not helping. Are you sure you're from chicago?

my point is you need an apples to apples comparison. would you rather live in chicago's "gold coast" or 5th ave? how about bucktown vs greenwich village? lincoln park or the upper east side?

but look, nyc isn't for everyone. my only question is that if he dislikes it so much here and thinks chicago is so great, why not move there? seems a shame to spend your life in a place you despise.

He should move to Chicago from the Indiana suburbs of that city.

> bucktown is just as nice (or even nicer) than LES or billyburg.

Are we really looking to get "nice" out of our artsy/edgy artist neighborhoods.

This conversation went way beyond stupid a while back.

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-most-miserable-cities.html

lol at all this biased trash talk Chicago is getting. That's exactly what it is and shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt. This is in the New york sub section of the forum, what else do you expect? A true new yorker who could care less about a city would have nothing to trash about it and brush it off. Instead they seem to know chicago up and down and ripping it just as an ugly jealous girl would spew hate on and about their attractive counterpart. Chicago is the hard workers city, tossed together with elegance and modern sleek architecture. these comments reek of hate and jealousy or either they're sheltered and incapable of understanding whats real and what's not due to the constant self proclaimed indulgence of cocky new yorkers and their media. The bigotry and cloudy perspective of a couple lying new yorkers who have never stepped outside their own city limits aside from what their ridiculous claims are fed through misconceptions of their self exaggerated media ( see hurricane sandy) should not reflect nor sway your thoughts on the reality of what the beautiful city of chicago is.