Toren

Thanks for the update, I was about to go look at that one.

Has anyone else who's looked at this development have additional insight?

I visted the sales office this week and must say that I was impressed. There definitely are a few teaser units with decent prices still available. On the availability sheet that I saw there were still a few units listed for under $700 a square foot.

These guys are so shady. I made an appointment- they called 30 minutes before saying they were double booked. I showed up anyway, and there was no one else there.
I asked about units listed on Halstead - and they had to 'ask' the developer to release them.
They said all but the most expensive of the unit I wanted was available, even though none of the others appear to have contracts out.
Moreover, by the next day, the unit I took a contract out on was listed on the website. "We don't update our website..." BS.

If they wanted to create buzz, why would they conceal their sales. That doesn't add up. If people see units going like crazy, there will be more rush. BEWARE.

Having said the previous, the interiors look great, and I'm sure the building itself will be fantastic. However be forewarned if you decide to purchase- their sales people like to play games and create the impression the thing is selling like crazy.
There is no good way to know- except I'd say trust streeteasy, my contract going out was updated within a day. So if they try to tell you the contract is out on all but 2 apartments, walk out.

I'm confused as to why you would still buy in the building if the sales office was shady and gave you a hard time. What was so impressive that you still took out a contract, despite all of that?

It was that impressive indeed. And a 25 year tax abatement with 20 years no RE tax.

I should note I followed up with senior members at Halstead, and it seems it was just a series of bad coincidences. So I owe their sales team an apology. I guess it was just my paranoia.

I will say, their website lists all the listings, even ones where people have taken out offering plans and will not be available. However it doesn't accurately note who has taken out an offering plan- so it's possible you will go there and many of the units will not be available at that time, but they may still be available. If I have any criticism, it's on that point alone.

here are the tips
good things
-exterior building is impressive looking compare what they are spending for construction cost.
-25 yrs tax abatement
-location all major MTA/LIRR transportation is close by
-good investment! hold least 5yrs!

bad things
-this building has no view even upper floor
north avalon/oro building, west chase building, south albee square, east another condo 400 ft
-master bathroom no medicine cabinet just mirror
-all the bedroom size is too small and tiny closet space unless you go for 3 bed. size! overall floor plan is not good! also not good for feng shui(if you know what i mean!)
-you don't want to be with middle income family! below 7th floor base is for them!
-c.c. charge is too expensive for this n.hood! even they all amenities!
-all sales people are rude! i tried to make an appt they told me that are all booked for 2 weeks~! but i walked in same day there was nobody~! even i was there for more than 1 hr!! that's right they are playing game with you!
-they said sales are flying but actually not~! at all! just couple~!

if i have a choice i go with oro better finish/amenities/layout/storage space under basement/great view/ cheaper c.c. actually this building is more expensive building compare to toren! they said it's eco friendly building but their construction is much cheaper close to 100 million
if you really want to purchase go with studio or 1 bedroom that facing west!

I have a contract out on a place here (and it hasn't posted on Street Easy yet). I didn't have any problems with the sales staff being rude, although I did feel like they were a little pushy at first, but they were more relaxed the second/third time around. Never had problems making appointments.

Just signed a contract. Went with this mainly because of the S.O.M. factor and the Co-Generated electricity. 10 years from now, who knows how big a factor this will be in terms of monthly expenses. The bldg adds value to the area, and all the developments mentioned around it will be good for the area as well.

I have a contract out on a two bedroom facing West. It's one that will still have a view thanks to the angle. I have to say I moved very quickly and was a little concerned I was being had. However, it seems that it wasn't just pressure. It's a great deal for the money. I was impressed with everything. It's way more impressive than Oro, unless you only care about views, everything else about Toren was superior including price. The SOM factor is nice along with the LEED, amenities. I fell in love with the Brazilian walnut floors and kitchen and bathrooms. Look at how many are in contract now.

I read on Brownstoner.com (super great website for Bklyn RE!, I'm just a reader, no sales pitch here)I believe I read that there was a lottery for apts at Toren for below asking rates, maybe those are the "sold" listings you see listed....just a thought :> I wish I knew about the lottery! I work at Chase & have been watching it go up slowly but surely.

I heard there are about 40 mid-income apts available..but as far as I can tell (I'd have to check the book to be sure), none of those are those are listed on this site.

there are 42 "affordable" units. i'm in contract for one of the "affordable" units and these are not listed on streeteasy, because the floorplans are very different from the floorplans of the affordables. the majority of the affordables are on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th floors. these floors are not on the toren website for sale.

Affordable: Where you part of the lottery? If yes, how did you find out about the lottery? I've heard that some of the new big develom'ts are doing this (required by the City or what ever legal power) & I wondered how to submit my name. Thanks.

I am also considering whether to sign a contract for one of the "affordable" units. Not sure if I should go through with it. Seems like new construction runs a big risk.

mickeycody: i was part of the lottery. here's the website with the lottery listings -- http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/apartment/lotteries.shtml

the lottery for the toren had about 1500 applications. i was told they usually get more.

newbuyer: i'm also on the fence about buying, because of this market and the restrictions on resale. i have been going to other open houses in the neighborhood to compare developments. so far, the toren has better amenities than most for the same price. you really have to look at this as a long-term investment. good luck on your decision.

Affordable: Thank you for info!!

Looks like the Catsimatidis development next to the Toren is going ahead, in smaller size:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/05/catsimatidis_tw.php

The previous plan called for a 35 story tower. This reduced plan should mean the folks with southern exposure will be able to get better views and much more light on the lower floors.

I am a very happy purchaser in the Toren.

Why am I so happy? I purchased an excellent product at a very very reasonable price. Sometimes I have to pinch myself and wonder why a SOM development project has to price themselves below market. Like most individuals looking for a high rise Brooklyn condo, I went to Oro, One Hansen, BellTel Lofts, Forte, and others in the local area. None of the above were even a consideration once I saw the plans that Skidmore, Owens and Merrill had for the Toren condo. This is the same SOM that is building the largest building in the world in Dubai, Freedom Tower, Hancock etc.

as well as, the second largest in Moscow plus the ninth largest in Shanghai (see largest buildings in the world)

SOM knows towers and I wanted to live in a iconoclastic tall luxury building preferably in Brooklyn. Hence my decision to purchase in the Toren.

After visiting the sales office a few times (by the way, criticism of the sales office is a lame excuse to not consider purchasing IMHO) and looking at the kitchen and bathroom materials/interiors my decision was further validated. Plus I wanted more than just a nice outside structure, a super looking curtain wall is nice but I also wanted some amenities to go with a nice apartment. The Toren had an attractive lap pool, health club, sauna, bi-level outdoor space with movie screen, parking (though expensive), an interesting looking library, concierge for a reasonable maintenance fee. I loved the fact that the developers have a 25 year 421 tax abatement. That was very important in my decision making process. I get itchy after 10 years and my resale value will still be great with 11 additional years of basically free real estate tax. Fact that BFC was the developer didn't hurt either.

Ok, now I love the building but what about the neighborhood? First I looked what was already built and having the MetroTech across the street is fine plus I liked the fact that NYU has merged with Tech and will, in all probability, expand upwards on existing Tech real estate and create more student bodies around the area. I have clipped out a reference to NYU merger see below:

"Promoted as a win-win for both institutions, the deal may be a bigger win for NYU. Poly alumni who question the deal say call it a land grab--though a definitive analysis is impossible, given that details of the deal remain confidential Poly, with a $135 million endowment and some prime real estate, is worth hundreds of millions of dollars--alumni suggest $500 million--but NYU wouldn’t pay out any cash initially, even though it likely would have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to start its own engineering school or gain a beachhead in Brooklyn. (NYU's endowment is more than $2.5 billion.)

Rather, NYU would offer Poly the benefits of its larger platform and loan Poly money, perhaps $50 million at the start (according to an NYU source in the Times), based on the engineering school’s unused air rights, boosted by the city's Downtown Brooklyn rezoning. There should be other financial benefits; NYU has a better bond rating, lowering the cost of borrowing, and greater capacity to support new construction; Poly has signed a letter of intent regarding its air rights with developer Forest City Ratner, its MetroTech neighbor, but has not begun new buildings."

This merger bodes well for the development of the immediate area.

South of Metrotech, Citypoint is in development along with the park going west (compared to Bryant park in Manhattan) and further west the Sheridan (moving along nicely) and the Mood Indigo Hotel next door.

Excellent description of projected downtown development can be found at:

dbpartnership.org

Once you get to this site check out 2012 projection and video.

On the east side of Flatbush, I like having LIU campus to the immediate south with University condos to the west.

We have 280 units in the Toren, 44 floors of luxury rental in Avalon Bay

Anyone who is familiar with their history only has to look in NYC and Houston Street with Whole Foods as the retail tenant and know that they are indeed luxury. I saw their rendering, though not my cup of tea still an impressive structure of 44 floors and wealthy individuals populating the area. Next to Avalon Bay, on the wrong side, is the Oro, which is 40 floors on 500K plus condos. Lets not forget the Catman who is building a few nice condo buildings behind Toren which further populates the area with some how net worth individuals. (see attached)

Then there is Tillary and Flatbush with the Flatiron and hotel across the street etc.

Personally, I like a more mixed economic population but I am only trying to refute the argument that the east side of Flatbush is the wrong side. It might be argued that within a 4 block radius, Flatbush from Willoughby to Tillary is one of the highest concentrations of wealth in the world after both Oro's, Toren, CityPoint, Catman's, and Flatiron are completed. Surrely to say it is the wrong side is very very short sighted.

Pedestrian traffic will be improved according to NYC plans.

There is alot to like about the Toren's position in this mix. I personally feel that the Toren will be a signature building in the development. Haven't even discussed LEED certification where the Toren was given 3 million to built self contained electrical grid separate from Con Ed though it uses Con Ed as backup. This promises to lower bills for Toren residents.

Then there is Ratner and the Nets stadium plus BAM developments etc. So much but I have typed enough and State Street brownstones, Schermerhorn Development and the central location to DUMBO, Heights, Park Slope, Smith Street, Boerum Hill and a fantastic communiity of DFort Greene plus easy cab or driving access to Manhattan.

I'm confident that the Toren is a can't miss. If economy falters more and it affect Brooklyn Downtown I still like the Toren's competitive advantage. In a bad stock market there are always winners and I believe that the Toren will do well regardless.

Junkman- Are you serious. That is the biggest sales pitch I have seen on this site. Are you sure your not in the marketing dept. or the agent for the building. I call BS. If I'm wrong I'm sorry and can't be happier for your move. Best of Luck. How many units are left? I'm sure prospective buyers will be visiting the building by night fall. Keep the light on.

Most obvious clue that Junkman is a broker/agent? - 2nd line - "I purchased an excellent product"

NO ONE except a broker/agent/shill refers to their place as a "product". All normal people call it what it is - an apartment.

I swear, I'm not a broker of a shill, though I sound like one. I studied this investment 24/7 for a decent period of time and I'm just experiencing "irrational exuberance" for a job well done on my part. How would writing an over the top critique of the place put money in my pocket?

I may be marketing the place since I put my 10% down and am now committed. I think the term "cognitive dissonance" comes to mind.

I'm so enthusiastic that I go to the site daily to check out the progress.

I'm so enthusiastic that I have read the SOM hardcover describing the firms history and past projects at the sales office twice.

Unlike many, I'm retired and had plenty of time to do the necessary research of other condo developments and contiguous neighborhoods. I live in the Heights and never saw other parts of Brooklyn excepting Brighton Beach. I now know Fort Greene, Boerum Hill, DUMBO, and Cobble Hill like the back of my hand. I've been through Metrotech so often the police are thinking I'm scoping out the place. By the way, fun concerts every Thurs@12 at Metrotech.

This purchase is the largest investment of my life and after reading Brownstoner and Curbed and every other Brooklyn real estate blog I could find, I saw the rendering of Toren and it was love at first sight. Then after reading more about SOM I was infatuated.

Add dbpartnership.org video narrated by my favorite actor Ian McKellan and it was truly a sign from heaven.

Just to show I'm not totally gaga, I agree with one of the posters who mentioned that the apartment layouts aren't the greatest. My wife is freaking over the lack of closet space. That's why there are carpenters though who I will hire one to build a wall closet and dresser in the bedroom. Lastly, I'm facing west. All other directions may be suspect with Avalon Bay, Oro 2, Red Apple and Citypoint yet to show their height.

Seriously, I swear, I just an enthusiastic buyer.

I still call BS on this guy

ok Junkman, should never have doubted you in the first place...Good luck with your "product".. LMAO

The real question is - who in their right mind would want to live it that hood. Nice view of Flatbush Ave? The building may be nice but........

Elgato, have you always suffered from lack of imagination. Go to Google maps and look up 150 Myrtle and look at StreetView. Then check out what the area looked like less than 2 years ago. (google map photo's are stale) The transformation in such a short period of time is amazing.

McKellan's narrated video may be overly optimistic but many of the structures he described are built, close to fruition or, at minimum, breaking ground. It is happening. Gato, use some imagination. If you get a headache from the strain consult your physician.

I took my daily walk in the area today and Avalon Bay is moving along nicely, Toren up to 30 floors, even Catman's construction crew is working on first building with other 3 to follow. By the way, the first building will have a super market and pharmacy according to his pr department. Also, the Flatiron's 21 storied building has broken ground on Tillary and Flatbush. The presumptive Hampton Inn across the street has no activity. Problem with financing, I don't know.

Activity also very slow at CityPoint. Some movement but so little it is not even worth mentioning.

Junkman: where will the garage entrance/exit be located? I'm just curious. I drive to Metrotech every day and drive down on Mrytle. That corner of Flatbush & Mrytle is a nightmare. Nevermind the construction, it's the buses trying to turn on that corner. The traffic "cops" help somewhat, but traffic is crazy there. Garage on Flatbush?

Here is a rendering of the front entrance on Flatbush Ext. and as you can see, the garage entrance is next to the entrance to the building.

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=19692

Fortunately, I don't have a car or plan to drive. Mickey, you got a point. Enter and Exit at you own risk.
Possibly the garage entrance is close enough to Myrtle that you can utilize the red light on Myrtle and Flatbush as if you are entering Flatbush from Myrtle itself. Good question, though.

Hope picture helps.

Also Mickey, check out the attached link and look at the slide entitled, "Myrtle Avenue to Willoughby Street" it says:

"Myrtle Avenue will be widened to accommodate a landscaped median, complementing the new development and creating a gateway to Myrtle Avenue and Fort Greene. "

See for yourself:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/dwn_bklyn_ped/dwn_bklyn_ped_pri_rec3.shtml

We all know the city is short on revenues these days, so there is a question whether they will follow through. Not sure if the Toren is counting on the city or not.

Thanks for the links. Interesting, I hope they do built a median on Myrtle - I don't see where it will fit, due to Avalon Project across from Toren - can't get rid of sidewalks, how would a median fit? you need the turning lanes. It's just a crazy corner and on top of that 2 major developments adding more volume. People crossing the street watch out!!

Mickey

If there was any doubt that I was a shill, my mistake should erase that thought from your mind. I blew it. Just came from Toren and discovered that the garage and entrance to the building is on Myrtle. Thanks much for motivating me to look into it further.

I have done so much homework and assumed that entrance was on Flatbush. What do they say when you assume......

Thanks again.

There's going to be a Tkts booth a 3 minute walk from Toren - how awesome is that (for the Downtown Brooklyn area)

Cool thanks ap.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--discounttheaterti0618jun18,0,4288823.story

If Citibank lays off 10% of investment banking workforce, you would expect it to affect demand for condos. Looks like a difficult market for the foreseeable future. Hopefully not more than 18 months. Hopefully the Toren, as an exceptional product, will weather the storm nicely. Once that curtain wall goes up demand will pick up.

Here's Link

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/citibank-may-cut-10-investment/story.aspx?guid=%7BDEAC088D-90BD-4230-B01B-B672DCD6C63E%7D&dist=msr_1

where is this txts booth going to be located? three minutes from toren? i just bought an apartment and thats a perk i wasn't told about. any info would be greatly appreciated.

This should help (clipped from Playbill News). I especially like the positive comments about my new home of Downtown Brooklyn.

The new TKTS booth, which is still under construction, in Brooklyn

A new TKTS Discount Ticket Booth will open in downtown Brooklyn July 10 at 11 AM.

Theatre Development Fund (TDF) and MetroTech Business Improvement District announced June 18 that the new ticket booth — offering discounted tickets to Broadway, Off-Broadway, music, dance and Brooklyn performing arts events — will be located on the ground floor of the MetroTech Center at the corner of Jay Street and Myrtle Avenue.

The Brooklyn TKTS booth will offer same-day evening and next-day matinee tickets with discounts up to 50 percent off the full ticket price.

In a statement Victoria Aviles, president of the MetroTech BID Board, said, "Downtown Brooklyn has become one of New York City's most important business communities, and MetroTech is at the heart of this neighborhood's success. Having a TKTS booth here in MetroTech will not only be hugely convenient for Broadway fans who visit, live and work here, but it clearly shows that Downtown Brooklyn is the place to be in New York City!"

TDF executive director Victoria Bailey added, "We're thrilled to be able to serve the residents, workforce and visitors in Brooklyn with a new TKTS booth. The growth in downtown Brooklyn has been tremendous in the past few years. We are confident that the convenience of the MetroTech location will encourage all of Brooklyn's theatre lovers to enjoy more plays, musicals and dance performances, as well as help create a new audience for live performances both in Manhattan and Brooklyn."

TKTS Downtown Brooklyn will be open Monday-Friday, 11 AM-6 PM. The booth will accept credit cards, cash and travelers checks.

Humpty, as they say "build it and they will come" . No doubt this is just the beginning of the retail resurgence of Downtown Bklyn. With all the new high net worth consumers who will be purchasing condos on Flatbush Ext Boulevard, the best is yet to come. Don't forget Shake Shack. (see attached)

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2008/05/30/2008-05-30_shake_shack_to_shake_up_brooklyn.html

Market rate Sales contracts jumped today from 47 to 51 with the Toren. If my elementary math skills are correct, that is 38.7% sold in less than 2 months. (including middle income purchasers) That is pretty good in difficult times. Fact is, difficult times may possibly work in Toren's favor in that insecure buyers may not want to extend themselves too far in Manhattan at $1200 min psf and prefer an interesting and potentially iconoclastic building (at $750 per square foot) in a area that has fantastic growth potential if projected projects (did I repeat myself there) come to fruition.

Talking about area, did you see where Muss Development purchased lower 2 floors on 345 Adams. Interesting potential clients. Also Morton's almost operational. We live in exciting times.

Those on sidelines waiting for the next shoe to drop in the NY financial sector, quite possibly will happen with corresponding decrease in housing prices but IMHO prices at the Toren prices will only go up once "curtain wall" is erected. Cream will always rise to the top.

Muss Development on 345 Adams

http://brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=20504

actually there are 99 contracts signed. all of the 42 affordable units are in contract.so, it's about 41% sold. http://www.torencondo.com/pdf/toren_brooklyneagle.pdf
streeteasy doesn't list the affordable units in contract. i don't know why.

Affordable, this is great news. I'm confused, though. Streeteasy is listing 51 units under contract with one (2801 for $935K) listing as being in contract today 6/25 totaling 93. Where are you getting the additional 6 contracts signed from?

Thanks.

Ok just read the link which states 99. Don't understand where this number comes from. he may be counting those who purchased the prospectus for $100.

Curtain wall going up on east side of Toren. Looks great. Also, 3 more apartments sold which brings total to 40% officially in less than 2 months on market. ( For those of you who are basketball fans, Lebron is rumored to be looking at Toren penthouse for 2010. With Barclays Center down the street it would make a perfect coupling.) :>) Nets have cleared cap space for 2010 with the Jefferson trade and it looks like JayZ will work his magic,

In this market not the best time to buy in bklyn.

Junkman, you seem to be a little suspect. Why do you have to keep pitching this place? For what reason? So you like it that much, do you need to constantly tout this place and give updates? Are you trying to get people to buy in this building? If it's really that good, then it will sell without you touting this building every chance you get, right? I just don't get this. I mean, seriously.

cleanslate - I have to agree. I can understand Junkman's being happy about his decision to buy - but this almost seems like marketing!

I was updating those who purchased. I'll stop posting if it annoys some of you. Just trying to be helpful.

Have a great weekend.

I'm a proud Toren buyer and appreciate Jumkman's postings and info. maybe because I'm also pretty obsessed with Toren also. This is a thread about Toren, correct? The fact that it's 40% sold in two months is newsworthy, especially in this market that so many are arguing is cooked. There happens to be lots of news about Toren and Downtown Brooklyn development.
Keep it up Junkman.

Cassie,

Check this out, 384 Bridge Street just got their permit this week (see attached 06/24/2008, to start building another 49 storied building on the west side of Citipoint. (see attached)

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/WorkPermitDataServlet?allisn=0001833177&allisn2=0001038748&allbin=3000413&requestid=1

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=20643

A mixed use building which obviously will increase pedestrian traffic and make Flatbush/Myrtle area a 24/7 location. Fortunately, Dekalb Street station (R train) is a decent size station as is Boro Hall station (A train).

I'm another purchaser and don't mind the eager updates...

Guys/gals, I've set-up a Google Group for people who have purchased in Toren or Downtown Brooklyn (creatively named Toren). If you leave an e-mail address, I'll send you an invite to join.

kjunkersfeld@gmail.com

i have also purchased at the toren and appreciate any updates from junkman or anyone else.

ap307 -- can you add the link for the google group on this site. i'd rather not put my email on this discussion group. thanks!

As I say, whatever floats your boat. I just felt it's a little suspect being bombarded with updates on how many units sold in this building this week, knowing the Dow was down nearly 20% from it's record high, and lost almost 500 points in the last two days. Plus this quote is a little overreaching if not disturbing.

"(For those of you who are basketball fans, Lebron is rumored to be looking at Toren penthouse for 2010. With Barclays Center down the street it would make a perfect coupling.)"

There's just TOO MUCH rumormongering about this building coupled with more unfounded assumptions, and I have to question if there's any other hidden motives behind these posts. Or can they be attributed to pure coincidence? One has to wonder.

In any case, good luck with your purchase. Obviously, I do understand in this market, you may need more people to assure you that you did not buy prematurely least you suffer from buyer's remorse.

It's still a long way to go from Spring/Summer 2009 and all those plans for Downtown Brooklyn. It's not like the whole plan for the Atlantic Yards is not already delaysd. But who cares so long as Lebron is rumored he might live in that building, right? Because it's the best building in the whole NYC and Lebron is a shoo-in to become a Net. RIGHT :) So everybody take that rumor into consideration and sign a contract in this building right away, so by next month, it will be 100% sold.

Sorry, the audience here is not only the people who bought but there are also potential buyers, and stuff like this is a bit of a turn-off especially when rumormongering is involved which leads to wilder imaginations.

Rumor Mongering? By the way its 2 words not one.

Are you serious? I try to be polite but cleanslate get real. Obviously, anyone with a bit of common sense knows that the Lebron statement was a joke. Hello, a joke. The chances of him coming to Brooklyn are slim and the chances of him coming to the Toren is non-existent. If by some chance Lebron was to come to the Nets, Trump with be his first visit. I tried to inject a sense of humor that you, apparently took seriously. To call my attempt at humor, rumor mongering, is absurd.

I'm always shocked by the absolute negativity on many blogs. Any legitimate potential buyer would appreciate the information I have provided about the building and the surrounding area plus daily updates. If I was writing statements that were untrue then your argument would be of merit. The fact is, everything I have said, to my knowledge, is legitimate and useful for anyone thinking of purchasing at the Toren or the surrounding area.

If you truly think that the Lebron statement was meant to be factual. I have a bridge that I want to sell you.

Enjoy life because it is very short.

Well, that's the whole reason I bought - because I heard Lebron, Kanye and the Olsens are moving in, plus they are building a Mac Store (free Airs for Toren residents) and Whole Foods on the first floor retail space. So none of that is true? And the market is really tanking? omg....

The Lebron statement is neither a joke nor a factual statement, it was your rumor. For what purpose? You tell me. I haven't figured out what hidden agenda you may have. While you're at it, please tell me why you keep touting this building and concealing important information. Or why is there a need to hurry and buy at this building which has a tentative date of Spring/Summer 2009?

You also meant to say you weren't selling me the bridge yet? I could have sworn you've been doing it. My bad, you were selling Toren and the rendering of Downtown Brooklyn. May I ask if they're all on schedule at this moment? There are definitely a lot of plans in Downtown Brooklyn and the rendering is pretty impressive, but most of it are currently unrealized and could dramatically alter, much worse falter and collapse and that won't be a surprise. You might as well sell me the bridge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/nyregion/21yards.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1214682076-t658W+rnJY3iM65kQ8NYjw

Here is the link to the Toren discussion group I created:

http://groups.google.com/group/toren

Around closing, we can share information, and if necessary, use the power of collective bargaining to make sure that our rights are respected.

Until then, we can share news about Toren and its environs.

I recent news, they are prearing about three floors of the building (facade facing Flatbush) for installation of the cladding - they have installed 'grips' on the steel superstructure. They also have a few panels of the cladding up on the facade facing Prince Street, but it isn't enough to get a sense of how the building will look.

"please tell me why you keep touting this building ?"

Good question. I have lived in same apartment in Brooklyn Heights for 26 years, a rent stabilized one bedroom with fireplace, skylight, tall ceilings with brick walls and great views for $800/month. In short, I have a great deal. My hobby for the last 5 years has been reading blogs dealing with real estate (Brownstoner, Curbed, Wired, and Skyscapercity) hoping that some day an exceptional condo project would catch my fancy to motivate me to move out of a very comfortable situation.

I wanted a project that was in Brooklyn close to the Heights, DUMBO, Cobble Hill and Smith Street. At the time I was ignorant of how nice Boerum Hill and Fort Greene was. Fort Greene is a very interesting cool place with fine restaurants. (Chez Oskar my favorite)

My neighbor is from Italy and taught Architecture at Harvard and has always been a big fan of S.O.M. So you can imagine my surprise when I heard of a development that was perfectly located, for my taste, and being constructed by S.O.M.

I then did my due diligence and loved the rendering, LEED certification, and plethora of amenities. Most importantly, I loved the price. For close to 700 per square foot, I was able to purchase an iconoclastic type building. Even with the reasonable per square foot price I needed a tax abatement that would make monthly payments affordable for, at minimum 10 years, when I will resell the apartment and move to warm weather. The Toren has a 25 year tax abatement which means that I can resell in 10 years and still not have to take a hit on my asking principal since the abatement will last another 15 years with 11 more years of no increase. There is a big difference in paying $22 a month tax instead of a whopping $800 if no tax abatement was in place. There is a huge difference between 15 years (most other surrounding developments) and 25 years. BIG difference.

Lastly, I wanted something with growth potential. Buying in a mature area like the Heights, DUMBO, Park Slope or god forbid, Manhattan would not give me the potential extra kick that I feel buying in Downtown Brooklyn, at this time, provides. Not only am I getting a discounted price on my condo due to pre-construction but I'm getting a major discount on the area which is totally pre-construction.

"May I ask if they're all on schedule at this moment? There are definitely a lot of plans in Downtown Brooklyn and the rendering is pretty impressive, but most of it are currently unrealized and could dramatically alter, much worse falter and collapse and that won't be a surprise."

Another good question,

We all know the Burns saying "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry." Before I laid down my hard earned money I did tons of research on the area (which I have shared on this site). Read my post on skycrapercity with links attached and you can easily surmise where my confidence comes from.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=147216&page=4&highlight=toren

I go to the different developmental sites daily to insure that projected developments are active. Surely you can see that the Avalon Bay luxury rentals next door is progressing nicely.

"most of it are currently unrealized and could dramatically alter"

It is the public uncertainty that makes this purchase a great investment. If the area was fully developed, I assure you I couldn't buy a building like the Toren with all its amendities for $700+ per square foot. Let's revisit this conversation in 5 years and we will see who made the right call. Remember, I have worked in the Deutsche Bank Building when it was Bankers Trust before Battery Park was started and I blew it when my fellow employees bought. Following that blown opportunity, the bank moved its operations to Exchange Place in New Jersey when we were the first building in the area that wasn't crumbling. Have you been to Exchange Place recently. Unreal. Fool me twice, shame on you, Fool me three times shame on me. I see this area as a very similar in opportunity to Battery Park and Exchange Place. Economic timing is not as good but fortunately, the Toren's exceptional position in this mix will limit any potential downside until area realizes its full potential. Never underestimate Brooklynites. This area will bloom eventually.

You clipped out the Atlantic Yards piece but I have never made statements about when Ratner would break ground. I'm sure he will some day but I have never discussed it. Though I will say that there is an excellent chance the Barclays Center will be here for the 2010 season. But that is purely hypothetical.

How important is the Barclays Center and the Brooklyn Nets (assume a name change) to the Downtown Brooklyn Development Plan?

My immediate answer is very important. I'll admit I'm biased, being a New Jersey Nets fan, but let's take a quick look at two important elements of the Nets move to Downtown Brooklyn and Barclays Center in 2010 or the latest 2011.

The acquisition of Yi Jianlian from China will potentially create further demand to relocate to the downtown Brooklyn area by increasing Net (Barclays Center) interest worldwide.

From today's NY Times:

On the court, Yi is regarded as a mobile big man with a good shooting touch from midrange. But the Nets are hoping that off the court, he will help attract a new pool of fans. With sizeable Chinese communities in North Jersey and Brooklyn, where the Nets are scheduled to begin playing in 2010, Yi could be the Nets’ marketing answer to the Houston Rockets’ Yao Ming.

“It opens up a truly new fan base for us,” said Brett Yormark, the Nets’ chief executive. “Yi is going to give us the opportunity to be relevant to Asian-American fans in ways we haven’t been before.”

Within hours of the trade’s confirmation, the Nets’ marketing efforts were in full swing. Their Web site had a splash page of Yi in a Nets uniform, announcing, “Something big has come to New Jersey.” They offered a free Yi jersey to everyone who purchased a season ticket. According to Yormark, the Nets sold 200 season tickets in the 36 hours after the trade.

This was the kind of exposure that Yi had made such a fuss about when he was drafted by the Bucks with the sixth overall pick in 2007. Initially, reports said that he did not want to sign with the Bucks because he and his agent, Dan Fegan, had hoped Yi would play in a market with a larger Asian population.

New York has the biggest Chinese population in the United States—and Chinatown is one subway stop away from the site of the Barclays Center. The United States in turn has the largest overseas Chinese population in the world. Chinese and Chinese-American culture is thriving. In Brooklyn alone, there are about 250,000 native-born Chinese, from the Peoples’ Republic, Taiwan and Hong Kong. A full nine percent of the borough’s population was born in China, the largest foreign-born contingent. About 40% of the borough’s population is foreign-born, 949,000 according to the latest census data. How do I know all this? Because it was tucked in the back of “Brooklyn Tomorrow”, a glossy magazine produced by by the New York Post but financed largely by Forest City Ratner.

There is money to be made here…and not just in ticket sales, but in corporate suite sales, sponsorships and naming rights, lots of it. And not just by the franchise, but by the players. Nets’ games will now be featured on the fifty-plus Chinese TV stations that carry NBA games. There are 300 million Chinese who play basketball and one billion viewers watch NBA games on Chinese television. Some months, the NBA brings in more revenue from China than it does from North America. The numbers are staggering. Will this prosperity translate to the Brooklyn condo market? Possibly.

Chinese fans will know the names of Devin Harris and Sean Williams and oh yes, that Carter guy who already has a Chinese fan site devoted to him. It almost exploded in delight this week at the pairing of its two favorite players.

Yi is a huge star in China, with more personality and, yes, better looks than Yao. He is the fourth most popular Chinese celebrity in the latest polling. Yao Ming is first. He is featured in romantic commercials along with the country’s top young starlets. His first Nike commercial made fun of the contrast between the staid old China (Yao) and the new hip-hop China (Yi). He was chosen by the Chinese Red Cross to videotape a plea for donations following the Sichuan earthquake.

Chinese media had writers and producers living in Milwaukee, some of whom will no doubt move to New Jersey and cover the Nets for their local newspapers and television stations. Business publications in Milwaukee and Madison newspapers lamented the trade, noting how Yi was Wisconsin’s link to to the world’s fastest growing major economy. People wonder if the Bucks will be able to maintain their Chinese-language website. Will the Nets set one up as well? Already, they have posted a CNN video of him talking about the Olympics, shot in April.

Here’s what Brett Yormark (who knows just a little about marketing) told the New York Times about the possibilities of Yi: “We jumped right on it. We’ve talked to the Bucks and the Rockets so we can learn from their mistakes and, more often, replicate what they did. It opens up a truly new fan base for us. Yi is going to give us the opportunity to be relevant to Asian-American fans in ways we haven’t been before.” (And critics of Atlantic Yards should understand that Ratner just got a brand new and powerful constituency in his battle with them.)

Here’s the beauty part, the Lebron connection. Lebron James is a huge Nike client. Yi Jianlian is a huge Nike client. Lebron James is very popular in China, so popular in fact that Nike opened a Lebron James Museum in Shanghai last year. China Daily was there to record fans’ fevered reactions. If Lebron plays in New York (and last we checked, Brooklyn is part of New York), his Nike contract reportedly includes a 15% kicker.

The Nets seem to be banking on youth as they move toward 2010. With the Jefferson trade, they will be well below the salary cap by then and may be looking at a spectacular free-agent class that could include LeBron James.

As John Schuhmann of NBA.com wrote hours after the trade: “if LeBron envisions himself as a global icon, he might see the opportunity to team with Yi, in addition to moving to a larger market, as a wise business move”. Who’s a better teammate in that hunt for iconography: Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Yi Jianlain? You figure it out.

Basketball in New York is synonymous with the Knicks. Yet, here I am faced with the harrowing truth that by the end of the decade, the Nets will be firmly entrenched in the New York basketball scene with a state of the art arena surrounded by rabid sports fans in desperate need of a professional sports franchise ever since the Dodgers fled for the coast. If not for being a borough of New York City, Brooklyn would be the fourth largest city in the country. That’s a lot of potential fans—a lot of fans that, as of 2009, could be former Knicks fans.

As of the 2009-10 season, Knicks fans can no longer dismiss the Nets as “the team from across the river.” They’ll be playing in a beautiful new facility in a beautifully developed section of Brooklyn on top of New York’s third largest public transportation hub and underneath a park and skating rink. That’s right, the top of the Barclays Center (as it’ll be called thanks to reportedly the biggest sponsorship deal in sports history), will be a city park and an ice skating rink. While the park and skating rink have been included to please city and borough officials and residents, they nonetheless add to the aesthetic charm that will no doubt influence future free agents and their families. The Garden has the nostalgia, but the Barclays Center seemingly has everything else.

It doesn't take too much imagination envisioning the multitude of automobiles driving over the Manhattan Bridge onto Flatbush Ext. on their way to Barclays Center amazed by the Flatbush corridor of the future. Lets Go Nets.

I'm no basketball fan but WOW! That was all very interesting. I had no idea that China was so into NBA.

On another note. I found this little story I must have missed before.

Downtown Brooklyn Rushes Toward Elusive ‘24/7' Status
BY MICHAEL STOLER
June 7, 2007

The stars are aligned for great success and new development in downtown Brooklyn, the city's third largest commercial district, which is finally transforming into a true 24/7 community.
"New projects and developments appear daily. It's mind-boggling. Who would have thought this would be happening in downtown Brooklyn?"

URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/56076

lot's of gems in this comprehensive, downtown brooklyn will rule article

Unfortunately, its 2008 and the article by Michael Stoler is so very dated given the current real estate scenario in Brooklyn. It's going to be sometime coming if it happens at all. What a difference a year makes.

Cassie,

Please take the time to watch a 30 minute discussion with some of the actual developers that are building around the Toren. (click on link below and watch video dated 06/10/2008)

http://www.stolerreport.com/

Mr. Catsimatidis, who is head of the Red Apple Group building to the immediate east of the Toren, and Paul Travis who is one of the principals involved in the CityPoint project across the street which will, in all probability, be the tallest building in Brooklyn.

This conversation is not dated. We all knew at this time the economy was going through a difficult time. What surdy apparently doesn't realize when he questions if these developments will "happen at all" is that they are happening. If he took the time to actually review the sites in person he would see that construction is active in Avalon Bay, Flatiron and Catman's first building of four. As the Catman says during the conversation, "they will proceed cautiously and build one building at a time". Fortunately, his first building will contain a drugstore and supermarket. Citypoint is projected to start construction on 10/08.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/21/31_21_affordable_housing_doa.html

Watching the conversation, one doesn't get a sense of doom and gloom. Economies are cyclic and they realize that if they start building now by the time they complete project there is a good probability the economy will start rebounding. Apparently, CityPoint has its financing and Travis is rearing to go.

http://www.citypointnyc.com/index.html

Interesting link taken from yesterday's Daily News concerning the expansion of Fulton Mall.

"P/a Associates has lined up tenants for about one-third of City Point's retail space and is in negotiations to lease another third. Construction is expected to start later this year."

Cassie, tell surdy that this article is from yesterday's paper therefore not stale.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/06/29/2008-06-29_popular_fulton_mall_plans_expansion.html

CityPoint is a very important element to the Downtown Brooklyn Development project and it appears to be right on schedule. Add the projected one square mile park contiguous to CityPoint plus Sheraton, Mood Indigo plus 49 storied Bridge Street development ....

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=27&id=8657

In the link below, notice the triangular open space park in the background across the street from the Toren. Presently it is an architecture school. This could be special if it comes to full fruition.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08152007/news/regionalnews/double_parking_regionalnews_rich_calder.htm

I almost forgot. The rendering above of the Willoughby Square Park will be altered to include Joy's home which has been designated as part of the underground railroad. Personally, I think this adds to the charm.

” Now that the building will remain, architects will be forced to carve out a niche in the park, said Janel Patterson, a spokeswoman for the city’s Economic Development Corporation."

For his part, Chan declared this week that “Willoughby Square will move forward and will, in time, become one of the great public spaces in one of the fastest growing urban centers in America.”

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/48/30_48joyonduffield.html

Just completed my walk around Downtown Brooklyn and investigated sites near the Toren to insure that work was moving forward.

CityPoint site (across from the Toren) was active tearing down remaining structures.

Red Apple (to the immediate east of Toren) was progressing nicely building foundation on the easternmost parcel close to Ashland Avenue.

Avalon Bay has been consistently working on foundation on southern end closer to the Toren. The northern end, I believe, is going to be an outdoor spot to relax for Avalon Bay residents, I presume. Would be nice if general area for public.

Flatiron construction also moving along nicely. No action on Oro II.

Has anyone notice the empty parcel of land with vacated structures next to the Toren on the southeast corner? Got to assume this property too valuable just to sit there. I don't think it is part of the Red Apple Development.

Finally, I completed my survey of the area by walking down Willoughby from Flatbush Ext to Ashland Avenue. This is a nice area with University Condos on your left and LIU on right. Fort Greene Park one block further going east.

Later.

Mention of demolition of Albee Square Mall for construction of tallest building in Brooklyn, City Point on Brownstoner. As I mentioned yesterday, demolition was active which was nice to see.

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/07/development_wat_252.php

Today I was perusing through a page on skyscrapercity, just checking out some beautiful architectural designs and to my astonishment I came across a rendering of the Toren. It is surprises like this they give me confidence that I have made the right decision to buy in.

Look at different buildings and close to the bottom of the page you will come across the Toren rendering. It is in good company.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145254&page=18&highlight=Toren

The attached article further supports that construction sites are active surrounding the Toren.

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=21539

Junkman is a broker shill (and an idiot). This ahole did the same register one day and then post MARKETING MATERIALS over and over again thing on curbed.

If the Toren people have to resort to THIS, CLEARLY that building is screwed. Its coming available just as Brooklyn is hitting the biggest condo glut/crash in a long time.

The Toren absolutely sucks. Its next to the projects! Tough to find a worse location in all of Brooklyn. Its even on the wrong side of Flatbush, with the metrotech buildings turning their back to it and the projects.

Look, the same shill with the same posts...

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/12/curbedwire_one_hanson_clock_tower_has_views_torens_got_contracts.php

EddieWilson

Hahaha... I can vouch that Junkman is not a shill, but just someone who's (very) excited about where he's purchased a home... Biased? Absolutely. A shill? Absolutely not.

People who have purchased in Toren find Junkman's comments helpful. Resorting to name calling, EddieWilson, only puts you and your character in a very poor light.

And btw, I'm pretty sure I've heard the silly "wrong side of Flatbush" line peppered about in curbed.com as well... I don't understand why there are people on this board who can't limit themselves from posting information but have to turn to (in my opinion) excessively charged and venemous language.

Sorry if you and the shill don't like the truth, but it doesn't change the facts. Flatbush is a SUPERWIDE street that cuts off Toren from downtown brooklyn. Worse, it leaves it next to the projects with nowhere else to go.

That is a poor, poor location. Add in the fact that there is a Brooklyn glut - 50% of downtown condos put on sale since 2005 are unsold. Yes, HALF.

Forte, an equally bad building, has already resorted to 25% price cuts. We'll be seeing a lot more of that, particularly from the late to the part buildings like the Toren.

I think many people would dispute your assertion that it is a poor, poor location. You are entitled your opinion, as misguided as I may find it.

I agree that Forte appears to be of rather, shall we say, lower-ish quality - but comparing Toren to Forte is like comparing an apple to an orange.

More like comparing a rotten macintosh apple to a rotten empire apple.

Sorry, the location sucks, and the apartments are coming for sale at the worst possible time.

Eddie,

Thanks for reposting my curbed article. When I pasted it to StreetEasy I couldn't include links. Much better when you can click on links.

Your comments are extremely insightful and the hundreds of buyers who bought and are buying on the "wrong side" will take notice. It isn't every day that a position is articulated in such a meaningful way that shares so many new facts.

One second, I need to get out my marketing brochure, ah here it is. The Toren is an iconoclas...... Wait, now I found my place. In three years, as a mentioned earlier, the "wrong side" of the street will have the highest concentration of wealth in all of Brooklyn. You will have 40 floors of the Oro with $500M plus condos, Avalon Bay with 44 floors of luxury rentals, the Toren (my favorite) with 38 floors of 500M+ owners all within a 2 block radius on the wrong side. Also, on the wrong side are the University Condos (elitist peasants), which if you take the time to visit the nabe you would know they are pretty nice. You also have the beautiful campus of LIU down the block from the Toren (my fav). Let's not forget the Oro II which will be home of the Hilton next to the Toren (my fav). Also behind the Toren (my fav) is John Catsimatidis's luxury development housing another 600+ high net worth apartments. All on the "wrong side".

Also, across the street will be City Point, the tallest building in Brooklyn, with a beautiful park adjacent etc. etc etc. If you are correct, the thousands of us on the "wrong side" can, at minimum, at least look at the Metrotech and CitiPoint and dream of how those of the "right side", those with jobs and money live. Maybe they will even let us sit on the benches in Willoughby Square Park if we promise to behave ourselves.

We all appreciate your alerting us to downturn in the economy. I'll get a Wall Street Journal on my way to work and catch up on that fact. I wasn't aware.

Lastly, this is S.O.M.'s (Skidmore, Owens & Merrill) first tower, so give them a break. They are new to the Architectural world and deserve our indulgence. Be tolerant. You're astute critique of their work was impressive.

ap307: rdg227@nyu.edu purchased in University Towers

Some interesting pictures of downtown Brooklyn that some may want to look at. Obviously the Toren is part of the portfolio. I'm exhausted just thinking how far this guy walked.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3649531

Junkman also has lots of time since his career as a "financial advisor" didn't quite work out either (he still doesn't believe that there is an economic crisis).

But, I guess he's perfect for a broker shill....

"In three years, as a mentioned earlier, the "wrong side" of the street will have the highest concentration of wealth in all of Brooklyn" Yes, all the rich folks in Brooklyn I know buy $250k apartments next to the projects.

Got a love it, a broker shill quoting broker shills!

And you know when AVALON BAY builds, things are great. Oh yeah, except they're heading toward bankruptcy for making bad bets.

> We all appreciate your alerting us to downturn in the economy. I'll get a Wall Street Journal on my
> way to work and catch up on that fact. I wasn't aware.

Yes, we know you weren't aware. You tried to claim otherwise on the curbed post, too.

And you never answered... exactly who pays for your financial advice? Are you the guy who does 1099s at H&R block?

Eddie,

You need some anger management sessions. If insulting me helps release some of that pent up stress, go for it. I'm happy to be of assistance.

If posting marketing materials every 3 minutes on every board in town makes you feel better about the HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE "investment" you made.... well, it still annoys me.

If you keep shilling for your crap building, don't complain if you don't like the responses.

Thanks to Eddie we made front page on the Brownstoner at 12:32 Thursday.

http://www.brownstoner.com/

bdeis01 - I'm confused by your post "ap307: rdg227@nyu.edu purchased in University Towers"

Did you buy a unit at Toren, and want to be included in our discussion group? The discussion group is http://groups.google.com/group/toren and you can ask to be added by visiting the website.

> Thanks to Eddie we made front page on the Brownstoner at 12:32 Thursday.

Good thing you rushed over to shill there, too.

I bet this Junkman asshole is walking up and down flatbush with a toren sandwich board.

For those of you who have purchased in the Toren, thought this advertisement for the Toren retail space below might be of interest.

A little early for a retail tenant. Personally I would wait for the Avalon Bay rental to be completed along with City Point before opening up a business here.

My suggestion is a spa. One can dream can't one.

http://www.washsquare.com/flyers/myrtle/myrtle.pdf

Also, not to be pedantic, but I always felt that it is important to know the area you are living in from a present and historical perspective. Living in Brooklyn Heights, I have read many books about the area and find that it provides one with a better appreciation for their local habitat. Presently I am reading a book called "February House" which is about a house right down the block from me which was inhabited by such notable as W.H. Auden, Carson McCullers, Ben Britton and last but surely not least, Gypsy Rose Lee.

Anyway, the attached link (Forgotten Neighborhoods) provides a nice pictorial and written description of where we will be living next year. Someone (I don't remember) once said, "Change is the constant, the signal of rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." No one can deny the extraordinary change that has been thrust upon this area in recent years and promised in the near future. Looking at the old pictures attached, one can appreciate this fact more fully.

By the way, the bias of the "forgotten neighborhoods" is clear, landmark everything so as to keep nasty condo buyers out. :^) Yea, meaning y'all.

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/NEIGHBORHOODS/albee/albee.html

Form "Forgotten Neighborhoods" it mentions that the building directly across from the Toren, on the west side, was also built by Skidmore, Owings and Merrill. Very interesting. Wonder if this had anything to do with their building the Toren? Probably not.

"At Willoughby Street and Albee Square West is the massive 25-story 4 MetroTech Center, completed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill in 1993 on the Southeast corner of the MetroTech complex. It's primarily occupied by JP Morgan Chase, whose logo crowns the building."

Perhaps you should spend all this extra time you have on career.

God knows, you're going to need the money when the Toren "investment' doesn't pan out.

ap307,

Sorry about news about Catman's tower on Brownstoner. Not surprising. You can hang over my place and we can look at the Chase Metrotech building from my window.

The good thing is that it looks like there is a considerable amount of space, given that the Catman Tower and Toren both have those bases at the bottom. Probably the equivalent of the width of Flatbush Ave.

Man that 07 line one bedroom, 14th floor and higher, sold off the shelves. Many purchasers did their homework. Little wonder why developer felt compelled to increase this lines prices. Just looked at the layout and it ain't bad. I like that shape. Congrats to everyone that got in this line at below market price.

What did I say about Toren being the center of Chinese culture in Brooklyn thanks to Yi and his signing with the Nets? Now we got unsolicited ads from Chinese nationals. lol

Good thing that Toren is almost as far from where the Nets are as one could be on Flatbush...

Its like living in the Penn South projects and saying its a great hood because of Marbury.

Eddie,

Why you keep throwing water on my enthusiasm? Can't you let me be happy in my blissful ignorance. You're like the devil on my left shoulder, sticking me with your pitchfork whenever I have a smile on my face.

I love the Toren. "No the Toren sucks."

It was a beautiful day today. "No it wasn't. It was hot and disgusting."

Downtown Brooklyn is experiencing tremendous development.. "No it isn't. It is a disgusting pit and the projects are across the street."

JM, if you haven't noticed, Eddie seems to enjoy going on a posting spree towards the end of the day, and posting something negative on every board, on any subject.

Maybe we should start a thread called "Toren prices go negative as Downtown Brooklyn sinks into the sea", just to see if he can do one better.

Hopefully, my buddy Eddie, is making money on his negativity. For example, shorting the stock market and then using his new found riches to purchase a nice 1 bedroom in Manhattan after NYC real estate craters.

ap307, congrats again on picking the right line. You're my hero.

> Can't you let me be happy in my blissful ignorance.

Blissful ignorance is one thing. Posting 10x an hour on this board and curbed and every other board you can find (including posts that have nothing to do with what you are talking about) with outright lies is another.

And, yes, I've already made some excellent money on calling the bust. And, for both the bust and my money making, it has only just begun...

Keep trying, broker shill...

Oh, and as for this ap, you are Junkman are neck and neck in blatant shill territory.

Posting that bloomberg article that notes a FORTY FOUR percent decline in Brooklyn sales and all sorts of good crash updates, and you pick the one line that makes it sounds like something else as the title.

Doesn't get much more shill than that. With that kind of move, I have to figure you're 20% underwater on the condo next to the projects you couldn't afford in the first place