Data point for high end segment

Love the guest bathroom wallpaper.

agreed with Aaron2, acid's a hell of a drug

also 9k in maintenance

Goes with the tile statement wall behind the dining table. I actually like them both though it would never occur to me to put either in my own living space.

You think there's an entrenched Coop Board and Management there?

Re: recent Sutton Place Penthouse lawsuits:
https://therealdeal.com/2020/05/28/sutton-place-co-op-in-turmoil-over-terrace-fees/

Except for that PR wallpaper I think it looks pretty spectacular. Re: the maintenance, While definitely on the high side, check out the $21,000 maintenance for a duplex

Except for that PR wallpaper I think it looks pretty spectacular. Re: the maintenance, While definitely on the high side, check out the $21,000 maintenance for a duplex

I had been watching this unit. Looks beautiful and unique but not for the faint of heart due to the small number of units alone, and then you add coop ownership structure on top of that and I would not have the courage to do it unless money really was no object. I will be curious to see who the buyers are when it closes.

Wow - that duplex with the $21K maintenance is insane. On the other hand, that cute little #1-4 is right up my alley with its own entrance from the street. I would definitely take a look at that were I in the market.

>mcr- what do you think about 325 East 57th PHA?

>mcr- what do you think about 325 East 57th PHA?

>mcr- what do you think about 325 East 57th PHA?

@ph41 - I love that one and saw it go into contract as well. I don’t understand the giant price differential between that one and this one. That one (at 2.6 - nice south facing terrace with $4644 maintenance) makes sense to me. This one just must be someone in another realm.

I love it. It looks far enough away from the bridge to avoid traffic noise.

I was intrigued by that listing and actually went to see it. It is lovely but I thought it was somewhat overpriced when taking some negatives into account. There actually is quite a lot of traffic right at the corner near the building, though the apartment itself is quiet

I was intrigued by that listing and actually went to see it. It is lovely but I thought it was somewhat overpriced when taking some negatives into account. There actually is quite a lot of traffic right at the corner near the building, though the apartment itself is quiet

I thought the price on PHA on 325 E57th made sense given other listings I was following. I did not go see it, but given closing price on the one I did see in 2018 in 2 Beekman (15A), I could see someone going for PHA somewhere near asking. What do you make of the price on the PH that is the subject of this thread? Light looks extraordinary, as well as apparent openness of the terraces, but $7.9? Where do you think it will close?

I like the 1st floor unit as well. Were cost no object, the duplex is what I really want. Floorplan and all (essentially a 2 BR for the owner, and 2 add'l bedrooms for live-in staff). While the current owner's decorating taste isn't quite mine, it's a lot closer than the broker's virtual pictures. I'd even do the powder room in the same wallpaper as the PH.

@Aaron - Totally agree. I LOVE the paintings, sculptures, chandeliers and figurines in the the duplex, as well as the rugs and various pieces of individual furniture. I suspect the owner collected all of this stuff over years and years rather than having someone decorate the place such that the overall look was not a conscious design? I can only imagine the fun an eccentric might have setting up all the really expensive toy soldiers from around the world in battle every once in a while.

Still no taker on this one that we've discussed before: https://streeteasy.com/building/400-east-59-street-new_york/phab

I guess you take 4 Sutton Place PH over 400 E59 PH because you want to be surrounded by other crazy rich individuals? Is this micro-location in action? The two are not terribly far from each other geographically, but the building populations likely very different?

Re:325 East 57th - I would guess $2.4 the owner is from out of state using it for business pied a terre, so could hold firm on price until pandemic. Probably still held fairly firm.
Re: 15A vs this one , I would say 15A had FAR better layout, size and views, but obviously terraces can’t compare.
Re: the duplex - judging by many of the pieces on display (lots of Chinese porcelains, ceramics etc, funerary horses )
Chinese collector owns
Re: East 59th Street - this is the “elephant on top,of the building “. Just looking at past sales it seems as if the apartments are not particularly wonderful and don’t go for big $$, so buying this would go against most real estate purchase precepts. As in buy the least expensive house on the best block, not the most expensive house on an undistinguished block

So yes, I agree, the building populations are quite different

And why does this discussion keep disappearing from the stream?

I've owned a couple of units at 400 East 59th. It's impossible to ignore how challenged the location is even when you want to, plus what ph41 said. It was the same issue when Bruce Davis of 1-800-LAWYERS fame was selling his penthouse atop 24 5th Avenue.

Seems to me like the 400 E 59th unit was featured on Curbed years ago when they used to have the 'That's Really Ugly' feature.

> mcr - was 12 Beekman Place 11B on your radar? And if so, what are your thoughts? ( I did also see this one)

@ph41 - Yes, I have been watching 11B. I feel the way about that one that I felt about 2 Beekman 15A; apt looks great, but not at anywhere near the asking price. What are your thoughts? (aside from likely thought that initial asking price seemed delusional).

The apartment had been very well renovated and the closet was fantastic. The real problem which is not quite apparent in the pictures is that the terrace/solarium is smack up against the building next door, which has apartments with windows staring at this apartment. If the shade over the solarium is not drawn precisely right, anyone in those apartments basically has a clear view into 11B living room. Not a good feeling

I'm going to be brave and put this out there for comments. We did get this into contract, unfortunately the deal did not go through. I don't want to go into details on a message board, but feel free to call me for details.

We assisted them with the purchase, they loved living there, however even before covid-19 move outside of New York. I think it's a wonderful home at a very good price point, wondering what the neighborhood 'experts' think? I've been scratching my head on this one.

https://streeteasy.com/building/200-east-57-street-new_york/11c

I actually think this is very nice ( tho not crazy about the location and there is that whole thing about white brick building). I think it was smart to move the dining area, but the problem is what they did with the original dining area. Does anyone really want to look at a w/d in the living room? And then they have the one chair all by itself. That whole wall is a turnoff.
think you should somehow do a little fresh staging of that side of the room to make it interact better with the living room.

Not my neighborhood since this 200 E57th is solid high-50's Midtown East as compared with the lower 50's submprime Far Midtown East that I know, but I couldn't get past the w/d below the TV in the living room. I think deal breakers are frequently irrational, and my not being able to get past that one feature is likely a prime example of that.

Thank you for the feedback penthouse 41! Yes, w/d location is an issue. But considering this is co-op, certainly better to have one than not.

I can't get past the w/d in the LR either. At the minimum, it should have had better cabinetry that completely hid it - other builtins are nice, this one just fell short. I like the floorplan, good separation of public/private space, good closets, nice finishes (though I'm over very dark floors - shows every speck of dust). I'd live there, with a few minor tweaks. I walk by the building all the time. What's the ownership structure for the commercial on the ground floor?

Financials are excellent. Almost 6M in reserves, garage takes in about 800k, commercial leases take in around another 800k.

hmmm - for solid financials, I could see myself getting past w/d in the living room. Also, I looked at floorplan and it looks like you could maybe relocate it to the closet that backs up to master bath.

@mcr if we represent you, you will even benefit from our commission rebate model : )

@keith - We did not use buyer’s broker in NY purchases to date, but if we ever step it up, your model is definitely compelling. I have enjoyed watching your business grow over the past 10 years. My husband is genius at letting me settle into every real estate purchase as my “forever home” and then convincing me to move five years later, so who knows where we’ll be in 5 years. That is why there is always an element of possibility in my favorite game.

Keith, it always interests me that most people don’t realize that buildings built in the 1960’s have very good room sizes, far better than most in the decades that followed as well as in the decades that preceded that time period (Yes, even than many buildings of the 1920’s/30’s)

Is this a three unit combination?

No, this is original apartment. It is interesting that the building was BUILT as a coop in the 60’s which explains the generous layouts, room sizes and tremendous closet space. The other building that I know was built as a coop at about the same time is Stewart House at 70 East 10th Street, which also has generous room sizes and tremendous closet space. You can barely touch a 1 BR in that building for $1.3$+.
Location, location, location!

More data points from Fritz Frigan of Halstead;

Here is an update of our data gathering and effort to measure the offers that are currently coming in! If you recall, I asked everyone to share details of their offers, sent or received, in NYC since May 8, 2020. Regardless if offers were accepted or rejected. We are trying to measure the perception of values and negotiability that buyers expect in this market.

I received a total of 60 responses. Here is the summary of results:

In NYC, the average difference between the Last Ask price and Offers was 7.67%. (60 replies)
The average ACCEPTED offer was 5.49% below the Last Ask Price. (37 replies)
The average REJECTED offer was 11.18% below the Last Ask Price. (23 replies)
In Manhattan, the average difference between the Last Ask price and Offers was 9.30%. (41 replies)
In Manhattan, the average ACCEPTED offer was 7.09% below the Last Ask Price. (26 replies)
In Manhattan, the average REJECTED offer was 10.53% below the Last Ask Price. (15 replies)
In Brooklyn, the average difference between the Last Ask Price and Offers was 4.48%. (10 replies)
In the Bronx, the average difference between the Last Ask Price and Offers was 4.11%. (7 replies)
For condos, the average difference between the Last Ask Price and Offers was 6.95%. (15 replies)
For co-ops, the average difference between the Last Ask Price and Offers was 8.00%. (39 replies)
For Single Family Houses or Townhouses, the average difference between the Last Ask Price and Offers was 7.34%. (6 replies)

ph41,
It's interesting that pre-2000 Stewart House location was largely viewed as a negative.

> 30 - absolutely- I still vividly remember driving past the building 30++ years ago ( trying to convince my husband to look at apartments in the building) and losing that argument when the drunk draped himself over our car.
But I also remember saying to myself that the population of the building ( mostly elderly ) would turn over and attract a younger population to the large spaces. And that definitely happened. And the East Village definitely happened, tho this was on “good” edge

I remember when you entered the building seeing the lobby full of senior citizens in walkers/wheelchairs with their home attendants. Many were still original purchasers and since it was an "all cash" building the maintenance was all they were paying. I know more than one person who actually thought the place was a nursing home.
There were twin homeless guys who used to pandhandle around there. I don't know how long it me to go from "Geeze that guy is everywhere" to "Hey.... Wait a minute..." and then it was confirmed by a conversation with one of my contractors.

And that’s how the world churns

>30 - somehow I feel as if we must have run into each other at some point. Did you ever look at N. Moore St. in TriBeCa?

Remember I said the same thing? I was definitely there but I don't have any specific memories.

it would be interesting if the Fritz Frigan stats would also give some insight into the difference between Last Ask Price and Original Ask Price...

@ph41 (or anyone else who follows this market!): What do you think of 300 East 54th PHA? Maintenance looks reasonable for family apartment of that size in building with those amenities. No idea re pricd point.

https://streeteasy.com/building/connaught-tower/pha

Weird floor plan -

@mcr- I’ll preface this by saying that as a NYer I am used to seeing room dimensions on floor plans ( which is not done in most other parts of the country) so I am always a little suspicious when they are not shown and they are not on this apartment. Makes it difficult to even guess at sq ft.

I think the positives here are the 4 bedrooms, new renovation, the very good views, the building amenities and what seems to be a reasonable maintenance.

The negatives are what seem to be low ceilings, a very “bland “ feel, and lack of a real terrace. 2 little balconies just don’t cut it. Finishes, even though new, may not appeal to everyone.

Re: the price, difficult to say as there don’t seem to be any other “natural” 3-4 br apartments in the building. The ones that are there were created by combining apartments and they seem over a range of years to have sold in the $2m range, so I think this one at almost $4m is a real stretch.

And at $4m this would be the giant on top of the building, tho the other problem is that it’s NOT on top of the building

@stache - thank you for link!
@ph41 - thank you for the analysis!

@mcr - do you agree with the general conclusions?

I haven't done business there in quite a while but my recollection is the Board at Connaught Tower is "tougher than you'd expect looking at the building and location" but perhaps things have changed.

I still have a pet peeve about "penthouses" without setback terraces (at least this one is on the top floor) especially when the top umpteen floors are designated "PH" and none of them have any outdoor space.

Then again there's 89 Washington Pl/126 Waverly Pl where the elevator buttons go "1-2-3-PH" but at least they are "penthouses."

>30 - actually it’s not on the top floor because you can see the underside of a balcony above that apartment’s balcony and the floor with the pool and all the other tenant amenities is above the apartment

So no terrace and it’s not even on the top floor - just adding insult to injury.

@ph41 - I concur 100% in your analysis. It will be interesting to see if and where this trades. I know a very few families who are in that stage of life where this apartment would make sense for them around this price point once you take reasonable maintenance into account such thst I think the asking is aspirational but not delusional.

>mcr - 325 East 57th street went into contract 6/20 - almost when showings started up again. I am curious to see the closing price.

Yes, me too. It is on my watch list so we’ll check back in once it closes.

@30 - the whole multiple PH thing is weird to me, as well as the multiple PH that are not even on the top floor. I have not examined this building, but I feel the moniker as been debased along the lines that “luxury” has.

As frequently happens, a 30yrs post sent me to Google for additional research. I now understand the umbrage about no setback from the outer wall/no terrace. Learn something new on Streeteasy yet again.

FWIW there are great terraces that are not penthouses in many buildings. A lot of buildings put up in the 60’s have setbacks on the 19th floor ((or near) that provide gorgeous terraces. These are not super high rise buildings, and I have a feeling (with nothing really to back it up) that these setbacks had something to do with conforming to FAR regulations for the building.

This is the kind of idiocy you hear in today's world of Reality TV Real Estate:
"Today, a penthouse can even be on the ground floor, if it's all tricked out and boasts luxury amenities not found in the building's other units,"
https://www.businessinsider.com/penthouse-definition-surprising-features-top-floor-amenities-outdoor-space-2019-2

Buyers beware: Steve Gold, Cathie Ericson, and Sheila Trichter (quoted in the articles) all appear to have sufficient ethical flexibility to call things what they want to call them, and not what they actually are. I wonder how much their definitional gymnastics (lies, actually) extend to square footage, ceiling heights, board requirements, or legal considerations.

"...apartments that sit a floor or two below the top-floor unit can be considered penthouses if they have terraces." This person has probably also called a 'balcony' a 'terrace' when it has served them to do so (my pet peeve, rapidly being replaced by the 'penthouse' lie).

The non-top floor 'penthouse' I'll accept as such is Mrs. Post's triplex.

penthouse[ pent-hous ]
SEE SYNONYMS FOR penthouse ON THESAURUS.COM
noun, plural pent·hous·es [pent-hou-ziz] .
an apartment or dwelling on the roof of a building, usually set back from the outer walls.
any specially designed apartment on an upper floor, especially the top floor, of a building.
a structure on a roof for housing elevator machinery, a water tank, etc.
Also called pent, pen·tice [pen-tis] . a shed with a sloping roof, or a sloping roof, projecting from a wall or the side of a building, as to shelter a door.
any rooflike shelter or overhanging part.

>MCR - just wondering if 411 East 53rd Street PHD is on your watchlist, as it is right in your ‘hood. Thoughts??

The 400 block of E53rd is a non-starter for me. I also have an irrational aversion to overhead lights; the only thing worse than overhead lights for me in general is overhead track lighting.

With that said, it looks like a nice amount of outdoorspace (but I’d discount that given that it is north and west facing); condo ownership structure definitely a plus. This had not been on my radar; thank you for pointing it out. What are your thoughts?

I dislike track lights but do like well placed in ceiling lights (as they seem to have in the kitchen) supplemented by lamps. North and west not a problem for me , and I would appreciate clarification re: problem with 53rd Street, which I am guessing may be the very large, high buildings on the street. I think this listing has traction, tho still a bit on the high side. As you said condo vs. coop definitely appeals to people

400 Block of 53rd street feels like a highway because of FDR exit. Not a pleasant block to even set foot onto for that reason alone, and then you add that it is dark/never gets sunlight because of tall buildings.

19D was much better value, tho much smaller terrace, and not “penthouse prestige” lol

19D much better value tho much smaller terrace, and no “penthouse prestige” lol

Look what finally went into contract yesterday: https://streeteasy.com/building/400-east-59-street-new_york/phab

Anyone want to venture an over/under on what it will close for?

$3.6-3.7

@ph41 - Feels right to me. I’ll follow up when it closes.

Any thoughts on 30 Sutton Place PHC? Asking $2.8mm which is not bad but maintenance at $7,925 Is high.

325 East 57th Street begins to look more and more reasonable

4 Sutton Place PH went to contract 6/15.

30 Sutton Place PH looks beautiful.
Re 4 Sutton Pl PH going into contract, yes, that is what started this thread. I am still very interested to see closing price and purchaser identity b/c I just don’t see what places 4 Sutton Pl PH at price point so far above say 30 Sutton Pl PH.

https://streeteasy.com/building/30-sutton-place-new_york/phc?card=1
I think part of this maintenance is all the square footage of the terrace, plus it looks like it includes a small unit on another floor.

2 Sutton Place PH (2bed/2.5 bath) listed at 2.9 just went into contract.

Pretty apartment. Problems leading to long time on market are : no dining area for 4 people, just table for 2 in kitchen, Terraces, while extensive, mostly too narrow to really be usable. Maintenance relatively reasonable, considering the apartment was probably hit because of the terraces.

I’ll guess $2.7-$2.8

That layout is quirky for sure. Second bed and bath are so inferior to the master and placed between kitchen and service hall that it makes me think this was intended for an individual with live-in personal valet.

*behind kitchen and service hall.
Then again, that second BR does have direct access to the south-facing terrace. Either way, I do like seeing apartments of this profile trade in this neighborhood because it suggests to me that far east Midtown East is still desirable for empty nesters, which will hopefully keep my preferred establishments (Jubilee!) in business.

MCR,
I going to guess that this was a "Bachelor's apartment" where what is currently the the kitchen was FDR and the ass end of the unit was kitchen/servant's area.

@30yrs - That makes sense.

Actually 325 East 57th street PH also probably bachelor apartment as 2nd bedroom behind the eat in kitchen was obviously the maid’s room.

These apartments intrigue me. Our current apartment is heavily shared with a floor plan dating back to 1925 that I have wondered about, and now I am thinking that it too was likely intended for same demographic.

*Same demographic with less money that is - we consider ours a quirky gem, but it is not in the same class as these penthouses.

200 West 86th Street PHLM closed in January, but I think the apartment is great and the price and maintenance were very good

And the celebrity provenance certainly didn’t hurt

325 East 57th Street PHA closed 8/7 but closing price not shown. Really curious

>MCR - what do you think about 35 Sutton Place 18A? Great space and terraces, but High maintenance and obviously needs total renovation.

That one would be a pass for me because I don’t like the look of the building (it would make me sad to walk towards and into it) and the maintenance is of the level that I would expect more character and charm. But, positives for me are the south and east facing terraces (I am quite partial to southern exposure and an outright sucker for southern facing terrace), plus I like the floorplan with the closed kitchen in the back and the staff room.

It will be interesting to see where it trades; it is a tough sell given that it is a family apartment and I don’t feel like families have the desire to gut renovate or run to Sutton Place, but the space itself is great. I feel like it needs to be priced for a flipper, but I don’t know if that is a thing/possible with coop estate sales. It certainly should be because I don’t know who buys this apartment otherwise. What are your thoughts?

In 35 Sutton I can find it in me to like 19a, really like 19b, and am rather excited by PHA (current floorplan, though the original isn't too bad). Of course, they're all quite different, and I agree with mcr on the look of the building, as well as not liking the proximity to the bridge with all its noise. Wonder where PHA's staff room is in relation to the rest of the apt/building?

I’ve been watching PHA and noted that it has not traded despite its discount to some of those discussed in this thread that have traded. It hits a number of items on my wish list (terraces look great and I like the floor plan), but I personally don’t value those attributes at the level of maintenance that accompanies them in this particular building.

The only problem I have with the look of the building is that it was built with white brick. Interesting that it is another 1960’s building actually built as a coop and not converted from a rental. That is why the rooms are very well sized even in a standard layout like 19B.

Re: 19A I just think no one at this time is looking to do a complete renovation. That, and the maintenance, are what is dragging sown the prospects of a sale, even at the very attractive price. Many people would like to get rid of the maid’s room and expand the kitchen. This can’t be done because of what appears to be a structural wall between the two rooms.

PHA looks good, with a better flow from kitchen to dining room, tho having a maid’s room separate from the apartment is a negative. Agree, the maintenance is major problem with this building.

At some point, when prices have fallen even more, someone will do the math of purchase price /maintenance/ renovation cost and trouble , and end up with a beautiful apartment

I think that a fully separate maids room can be a plus -- I'd use it as an office (bigger than the WIC I'm currently using in the city, and I think the separation is a plus) -- but then I don't have staff either. White brick doesn't bother me, as long as it's well maintained. Fully on board with the concern over the maintenance, though the proximity to the bridge (and the noise) is a bigger downside.

Does this count to be in this little club?
https://streeteasy.com/building/425-east-51-street-new_york/ph10d