20 pine

when are you going to see them?

should i use a broker to buy in this building or should i buy direct? which one will get me a better deal?

There is a huge discrepancy between stated and actual sq footage at 20 Pine. A 1387 sq ft studio is really only 1000 sq ft. A 1211 sq ft 1-bed is about 1000. PSF in this building should look low because of the size exaggeration.

How did you find the actual square footage?

Visit them and get floor plans.

When did you last visit?

get floor plans and actually measure to see how well they match. some plans are calculated based on the exterior of the wall (meaning the outside of the building) rather than floor space and interior walls.

Read the condo declaration. It details the method of calculation. In this case, like most condos, it's from outside of outside walls to halfway through the walls between units, and all the way through walls between the unit and common space.

Looking to make an offer today or tomorrow an a high floor studio. any advice?

All Manhattan apartments (condo) uses the same method of calculation. If you compare measurement methodology at 20 pine, it should be the same as 15 CPW, The Plaza and Trump condos. Everything is relative.

If you want "livable square footage" which uses floor space within interior walls, then look for the that word. See if you can find an apartment that actually measures "livable square footage". I guess not.

domo - what you describe so not what i've seen. and i've been looking at (and measuring) condos that past few months. there does not seem to be any consistency.

Looking to make an offer today or tomorrow an a high floor studio. any advice?

I'd have to 2nd what jim123 said. Yes, ideally, they should all be consistent about their measuring methods. Recently, there was a discussion about a particular development which allegedly included the common areas in their SF calcuation of each unit (was it 20 Pine, by the way?).

From what I have seen, some of these oddly-shaped conversions (like many units at 20 Pine) appear to be the worst offenders.

Finally, domoarigato, the sales girl at 212 E 47th specifically said that they reported the "internal" SF. Check them out if you are interested.

Looking to make an offer tomorrow on a high floor studio. any advice?

what type of advise are you looking for

sorry... advice

price per square foot? what do you think is a good offer?

how much light?

little to none

no views very very dark

$600 psf and would think long and hard if you really want that apt

they wont laugh at that offer? Why thing long or hard? what problems did you find with the building

and do you think they will sell it at 600 or do you think I will get a counter? my broker is in the hamptons and has not gotten back to me.

no problems with it, it's just a huge cavernous building. i personally found the apt dark and cold and still feels like an empty office building. 901 went for 700 psf and that is a dark apt - saw a peak of it recently and it loks like sanford and sons place.
my comment was more about living in a dark apt, very depressing and very, very hard to sell

Finally, a post I can comment on! I looked at a couple of apts in the building to rent last summer and I hated the whole feel of the place. For one thing, the location is awful- it feels like you're on lock-down. Second, the building is DARK. Scary dark. And the apartments too- I'm sure they thought it was supposed to be sexy but it's not- it's creepy. Next, the kitchen is not even a kitchen. I kid you not that I went into the LR and went down the hall & came back out and said "where's the kitchen?" It's weird! If you cook you're screwed. Finally, they just seemed small, regardless of the sqft. Maybe it's all the dark finishings but there just seem like there's no air there.

Fwiw, I had a really generous budget, so wasn't looking to skimp, but if they want to unload those apts they'd better chop those prices & fast.

would you submit an offer below 600 per foot?

no- we would not live there

has anyone seen unit 403? the last standard studio unit left?

how many sq ft

660ish

I've seen it. It's the worst unit in the building. Doesn't some beams block the windows? I wouldn't buy this apt. Resell will be very tough.

I too heard that when calculating the sq ft at this building that they took all of the common space and added it to the units total sq ft on a pro rata basis. You really should calculate the usable sq ft before you consider an offer. The units I saw seemed to have about 20% more sq ft stated than I felt exited.

There is quite a buzz picking up for the last few days. The mere fact that all of you are posting here gives me the impression that 20 Pine is finally on its way to being a top choice in FiDi apartment selection. Please keep the interest, I can feel the demand is getting renewed life .... Thanks to all of you. I can smell my profits from a mile away.

i agree dom, there a lot of bats out there looking for luxury apartments

who would want to live down there? I would suggest renting before buying if you have never lived in the FIDI. It is more dead in this area at night then in ALbany NY.

Do you really think we're so gullible? You are the same poster pulling up all the ancient threads in FiDi, 99 John, 88 Greenwich, 20 Pine. Probably a broker trying to look like a buyer. You're probably the same guy w/a couple of screen names. People aren't going to live in a hellhole just because you feign interest.... we're actually going to LOOK at the apartments & see that they're junk & overpriced. It's actually quite pathetic. Not even an A for effort.

I have been advised by several realtors not to put a bid on the place. several problems, bad publicity and look at the amount of resales being listed...

Check out 75 Wall!

gqbuthighiq - what kind of problems are you referring to? And I'd guess there are lots of investors who bought at highs and are trying to get out. That'd explain some of the resales.

the bad press, the amount of renters... i am trying to find some pluses

Nice common spaces is a plus. I've seen them and they're impressive.

I won't personally buy there because of the small & limited # of windows per unit (thanks to the giant floor plates), but the finishes are lovely and it is move-in ready...

gqbuthighiq, I think those concerns would only apply if you are thinking of flipping for profit. If you are going to live there for some time, I don't know if you should be concerned about the resale activities (mostly flippers trying to get out, it seems).

samadams, have you been to FiDi lately? I work in the Chase Bldg. across from 20 Pine and must say, with the recent surge in the # of residential bldgs. and hotel rooms, the area is actually quite "active" at night and over weekends. Sure, just 2 years ago, that wasn't the case. I know some people think that there are no supermarkets in the area, but there are 3 in the immediate neighborhood (Gristedes on Maiden, Zaytuna on John/William, and a 24-hour Jubiee on John). Sure, it's not Times Square or Union Square, but it is no less active than, say, Midtown East or many areas of UWS/UES. Also, in case if anyone cares, many of my colleagues have moved to FiDi because of the school district (sorry to be classist, but no projects/low-income housing in FiDi & apparently it's in one of the top NYC school districts). So, yes, in fact, there are reasons why people want to be in FiDi!

agree about living in FIDI, especially if you are close to battery park. it's gorgeous, peaceful and near the major subway lines.
there is something very creep about 20 pine, very! maybe it's the vast size, lack of light, the kitchen seems like an after thought, and while large apts the layouts are still remincent of an office.
I would look elsewhere in FIDI

midtowngal, it's refeshing to see someone here who doesn't judge an area based on hearsays or preconceived notions from years ago--when FiDi wasn't a residntial area.

Sure, the proximity to BPC is nice, and you actually don't have to go that far to find good things. From my office, One Chase (which is where 20 Pine is), you can walk to Stone Street to dine in one of the many restaurants in a historic setting, or go all the way on Wall Steet toward East for a port w/ a totally non-touristy park, etc. Also, the area around Front St-Pearl St/Peck Sip-Beekman provides one of the most fashionable dining experiences (the food, surprisingly, is typically good). Also, Fulton is the biggest NYC transit hub in the city.

I have absolutely no vested interest in promoting FiDi, but I must respond when inaccurate information is being introduced--like there are no dining options there, it is dead at night/weekends, there are no supermarkets, etc. If you haven't been there in a long time, please pay a visit before criticizing it based on stereotypes.

nyc- love stone street and love the seaport... love the market they set up at bowling green and while there are lots great dining establishments i do enjoy the adventure of dining outside my "hood" so for me it's about the quality of life the other 22 hours of the day i am not eating!!!!!
and with water on both sides how can you go wrong!! the beauty of ny is there are so many different experiences for different people at different stages of their life... If people want to be critical of FIDI, or any area for that matter, go ahead- it's ignorance

hear hear re, nyc and midtown! i've lived in fidi for 6 years and am quite content. those who make comments about lack of grocery and other services are simply ignorant/uninformed. there are several really great places to eat in the hood as well. when i want to travel to hit some of the great destination neighborhoods, i have easier access to more subway lines than just about anywhere else in the city.

can you share some of your fav places?

I moved to the Financial District 4 years ago because it was dead at night. (aka quiet) It is not like that anymore (which I am not happy about) but still quiet compared to other places in Manhattan. If I want noise and action I go into someone else's neighbor hood and party then come back to my place and get a good night sleep. When people critize FIDI I am always curious to find out where they live and what they live in. :) 20 pine pine is seems fine at $700 sq/ft if you don't cook and do laundry.

sure re: harry's cafe near stone, perle (on pearl), zigolini's (pearl) sho shaun hergatt (on broad), pound and pence (on liberty), les halles (on john) to name some of my local favorites.

agree with you lajeep: 20 pine dark, not well-equipped kitchens or laundry (combined washer/dryer units not very good). but at the right price? maybe...

RE2009 - Also, there are several places on front street that are nice. Salud, a cuban restaurant is my favorite. Also, there is a fairly new korean BBQ restaurant at 120 Greenwich. I haven't eaten there, but it looks quite nice.

The kitchen is horrible. Steam and oil from the stove will make a mess of the cabinets. There is so little cabinet space, and no pantry. You'd definitely need to add at least an island counter.

The washer is tiny. I'm not sure it can even wash king size bed sheets.

agree downtown about some good places near front. heard salud is good and i like barberini alimentari.

A friend use to call his apartment in FiDi his country home without the long commute. Nice and quiet. No projects to walk by. Clean big apartments with a pool and doorman. But he only had a 5 min cab ride down Broadway after dinner in SoHo.
Not a bad option for many.

Thanks for all the reco's.
re 20 pine.. know we have said this before, but it seems very sexy and sleek on the surface.. spend a february afternoon there for more then an hour and you will want to shoot yourself. when you unpack, even if you are not a cook, you will realize there is not even spot to cut a bagel. dark apartments and where is the pool/gym ect??? THE BASEMENT!!! At the right price, as a starter... but i would really be concerned with resale.
maybe there are lighter brighter apartments then the apartments i have seen...

everything is quite dark

been quiet on this page

guess all the 20 piners are getting their last moments of sunshine

is there a way i can find out of 20 pine is really at 421 G tax abated building and what the tax structure is?

does anyone have info on the size of the latest closings?

think 801 is really in contract?? and if so what do you think it went for?

Recently saw 20 pine for the first time. YUCK! It's got a clinical hotel or corporate housing feel. I couldn't imagine living there. Why anyone would live there is beyond me.

hence why it used to be a crappy chase office building.

jim- i TOTALLY agree, at best it's ok corporate housing or pied a terre. Spend a sunday in jan/feb and tell me you don't want to jump out the window.
It is an office building that they threw a murphy kitchen in an ok bathroom (even that layout is weird).
Can you imagine in a few years when people want to get out and sell... and there are what, 400 plus units?????

Any updates from people who actually live in the building?

okay, I have been reading on the dissapointments of how the decor is too dark & creepy, too clinical etc..
I don;t like this building for others reasons such as the unfreindly and Incompetent staff. I am a designer with tons of clients in the building so I am constantly there. everytime i am there it's like as of the front desk person just started that day. they are so unorganized, it's un real.

but as for the decor, i like it. why? maybe the designer in me can see the potential. not every space is move in ready. but with that said, the kitchens are completly none functional.
I am still in shock that they have an oven inside hidden a cabinet. my clients tell me the cabinets start to heat up and they have to keep the door open while it is in use.
Oh yey, the washing machine is hidden inside a kitchen base cabinet and that causes issues as well.
But these issues at 20 pine actually keep me in business. I think I have changed out 20 kitchens so far.

anyhow, this building will offer great deals.It is worth someone who is single and understands the design concept and will live there a while to then later rent it out as an investment for a couple of years.

@gramercykid - I agree on the kitchens. Oven inside a cabinet and washing machine taking up kitchen space is silly. Can you DM me about what you've done with other kitchens and what you charge? We're thinking about buying there and the kitchen is one of my last concerns... thx

I went to 20 Pine on Sunday. Great amenities but the sponsor is smoking something if he thinks 900 psf is a fair price.

Way to much hair on this building to get involved. There is a very good reason why you can get decent square footage here. 40% investor owned - many banks will balk. Those deal got done in bulk at 600 psf - so way too much overhead supply.

Also, when comes to sell, there will always be an option for someone to rent in the building, thus no need to buy yours.

Maybe Euros make good buyers. But I'd steer clear. No chance to make a dime on these units at these levels.

zzzbuyer, it will take us a few days to figure out what other name you normally post by, can you just make it easy? Come on, do it for me and columbiacounty.

How can I find apartments for rent in this building?

The management? I hear investors are looking to rent units out?

Hi, I'm seeking a Northwest facing, high floor, high ceiling, large studio rental at 20 Pine. Want to move in by Sept 15th. Email me at ryan 323east dot com

So what is the current deal with this building?
Anyone looking at these units?
Anyone renting here?

Not a single person knows anything about current status of this building?
I hear from many avenues "stay away" but nobody can specifically say why...

{I read the recent article about the 2 lawsuits to rescind contracts extending the two year timeframe to 3 years....is this the only thing?}

There is info but I dont think anyone cares about FIDI right now. I own at 20 Pine- paid $300k too much in 2006 but thats life. I sold my brownstone in Bklyn and made a $900k profit in 4 years so its a wash. The sponsors are giving the units away. I should buy another unit in the building at a discounted price but with this economy, Im going to hold my cash. I just got the financial statement and the building is actually doing well (even I was surprised). The lawsuits have nothing to do with anything... Streeteasy is such a great tool but the forums are killing my brain cells. I love reading all the angry complaints.. I almost feel like those people rent and dont have a pot to piss in (but they will deny that). If you have any more questions on 20 Pine, I will be glad to give you my honest op.

"The sponsors are giving the units away."

Hardly.

They're still priced about 65% too high.

OMG Kieran212 - that was sooo cheesey.

Considering that apts were selling for $600 PSF and now they are asking $1000PSF> they are hardly giving the units away. The apartments are ridiculously overpriced. Let's be real, the kitchen is a disaster (oven closet? w/d for 3 undies), the units are dungeon-like with terrible light and most sides face office buildings with workers in them staring at you within striking distance, sewage problems, ventilation problems.

Not that some units aren't quite nice... but most units in the building are a con job of selling fantasy over reality.

NYCMatt

"The sponsors are giving the units away."

Hardly.

They're still priced about 65% too high.

PPLAYER- I guess you arent an insider.... units are being sold for WAY LESS than $1000psf. The sponsor just sold a unit in my line (1585 sq) for under $1.3- thats under $820psf. BTW- some people don't cook.

Anyone have recent updates for this building? Seems like there was a lot of back and forth on this board for a year after the building opened (including a lot of vitriol) but now its pretty quiet. Thoughts?

It's not bad, the amenities are really nice. I really liked the wet and dry saunas.
Problems;
1) Most of the sponsor units left though are facing North, combined with the dark tones in the unit, you'll feel like you live in a cave.
2)Bathrooms have wood everywhere, trim around the tub, platforms around the sink, etc.
Mixing wood and water in dark environment? You'll be growing the wrong kind of greenery in no time.

Unfortunately this building is one of the smaller kids on the block, so though it would have been great to live here in say 1950, now you can live on the 4th floor or the top floor with no difference.

Still if you one to use the amenities and FIDI is convenient for you, I think it's a decent deal for @ the $800 per sq ft many units have gone for and considering it's new.

Thanks,truthskr, that's really helpful. I had a similar reaction to the building.