Downtown now seems magical!

Yes, you are.

I've lived many places in NYC over the last 30 years, all were below 14th st. Not all the cool people live there (some are in Brooklyn and a few on the UWS) but most of them do.

How long have you lived in the city before you realized that downtown (and many areas of Brookyln) are cooler than uptown???

I came to NYC in the early 90's and lived on the both UWS and UES for a few years, having no idea what I was missing. Now, except for work, I usually avoid travelling north of the 20's.

let the cool tool battle begin.

Downtown is where all the beautiful, weathy, continental playboys with sophisticated tastes such as myself live.

Uptown is for non-cute people. I tried uptown for a bit, and it has been a disaster.

Hipsters ain't cool! Quiet the opposite, they make cool become uncool!

what do people think about downtown values holding up in this market? east village, west village, noho?

Agreed, Sledgehammer. The cool thing was living downtown years ago, have bought then, and sold. Now is yuppieland.

Uptown is burbia. That's why I like it. No wannabe hipsters.

Nothing is holding up in this market. Downtown lofts are starting to crack the $1,000 psf barrier for nicely finished space.

But you still have delusional sellers, like this one listed today at over $2k per sf.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/406284-condo-92-greene-soho-new-york

I heard the West Village is different. It's immune to price drops. Just because.

$50 for a packaged Super Mario Brothers tshirt made to look retro is pathetic. I hate hipsters. I'll stick the UES/UWS over downtown. Classic NYC at lower prices!

$500 for a little pseudo-sailor outfit for your precious little moppet is kinda pathetic too. ;-)

and come on folks, everything on the island of Manhattan is good! It's those big scary blocky states out west that freak ME out!

Not Soho - way too full of tourist-shopping types and dead after 6pm. I love the West Village and parts of the East Village, but too hard for us breeding types (with young children) to live far from CP.

Downtown is so dirty. Who wants to live in an area where there's garbage bags on every street corner? Also, way too many tourists in soho, and east village has annoying hipsters and other ugly people.

Downtown manhattan is overrated.

New York City wouldn't be as good without the hipsters, eurotrash and yuppies.

Those old native NYere are sooooo bitter and always look so mean and unpleasant!

Why quantum: we're curious to hear, what's your idea of a good neighborhood?

And by the way, a big Harty welcome to the StreetEasy Discussion Boards.

i don't understand. you've never been downtown?

Gotta put my two cents in for downtown. UWS and UES (especially the UES) seem so staid. Then again, give me five years and that might be where I wind up!

I personally like the west 60's and 70's near central park west.

Don't get me wrong. Downtown can be a fun place to hang out, but it's too dirty for me to actually live there. East village and lower east side are especially horrendous.

Hey alanhart - I bet you a million dollars that quantum will like a neighborhood like streeterville or gold coast or some other sucky part of Chicago.

Waverly, let's see if he's been properly rehabilitated and re-educated during his time at "the farm".

We should really provide some supportive reinforcement of everything he's learned.
http://www.suntimes.com/business/1540906,chicago-existing-home-sales-march-042309.article

You'll note, by the way, that he personally likes the west 60s and 70s near Central Park West. That's a start. Definite article and all.

Haha!

The great thing about NYC is the diversity of neighborhoods = something for everyone. yet, you can be somewhere else in a few minutes in a cab. Unless it's rush hour, then you can go 3 blocks in 40 minutes.

Ew, I thought Rufus/Qunatum like died or something?

And what does the Lower East Side have to do with people like me who live on Tribeca or SoHo/GV?

You guys on the UES are close to East Harlem. And?

in Tribeca*

Tribeca and the village are certainly nicer than lower east side or east village. But there aren't that many nice modern buildings in those areas either. Lot of old pre-war, and lousy conversions of warehouses and factories.

And no buildings shaped sadly like corn-on-the-cob, sadly. Some day, rufus . . . some day.

I must say, the tourist traffic downturn is a huge turnoff.

If you go to the west village or the east village on a weekend night, there are hoards of young-uns, mostly drunk, mostly loud, mostly people you wish you'd never laid eyes on. (most of them not Manhattanites and many of them not New Yorkers.)

There are probably little side streets where you can stay away from that, but I dunno, it would not be pleasant to live in the thick of all that.

Soho is worse, because of all the retail foot traffic on weekend days. Ugh. I couldn't stand it. I can barely stand to shop there, on infrequent occasions, for something I need.

GG, i definitely find that to be true in the LES (and parts of Chelsea, even, though i still love parts of Chelsea), but in the East Village we find plenty of great places, and the youngsters aren't all hipsters, more diverse. More of an older crowd out as well. Just much more mixed in general, although I don't spend much time in the West Village, so I can't compare to there.

I find Soho (other than its buildings) singularly unappealing. Almost all of the boutiques that I used to love have been replaced.

Everyone seems to be talking about different things. How about this, if you don't have to take kids into account, would you rather live:

A. prime coop building on lower 5th Ave, or
B. prime coop building on Park Ave or CPW in 70s?

that should equalize out the noise -- just focus on what's within a 10-20 block walk of these 2 areas and decide which you'd prefer. for me it's a no-brainer -- downtown baby!

Even if I had (and I do) kids I'd take the downtown location. There are alot of parks around. I love raising a kid downtown.

watchnwait is:

(a) A broker with listings downtown
(b) A seller with an apartment downtown
(c) An uptown buyer trying to minimize competition
(d) Completely clueless about Manhattan

W-O-W.

I sold a SoHo loft for $2mm, post-crash, and even I'm not that enthused about downtown.
But maybe that's because I haven't been hanging around that great SoHo high school.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

"great SoHo high school"

???

GG: You are correct about weekend nights downtown. But if you live downtown, you don't go out on weekend nights. That is for tourists.

The Thursday night happy hour crowd can be brutal in some locations as well. Sunday night is usually fine, after the brunch crowd stumbles home.

Different strokes... When I was younger in my 20's, I couldn't imagine living north of 14th. Now, married and a dad, I can't imagine living below 59th. Uptown is much more kid friendly (can you imagine taking your toddler to Cafe Gitane!) and Central & Riverside Parks are priceless. That said, the beautiful people are indeed downtown, the restaurants are, for the most part, superior (paricularly if you're on a budget), and the vibe is much more eclectic/Euro/hip/edgy.

My advice to you, if you're single or newly dating, you'll probably enjoy downtown more, and if you're 2/3 years married with plans to build a family, you'll probably find uptown more accomodating. If you end up downtown, I found NoLiTa to be my favorite overall neighborhood - central to the other "cool" neighborhoods, great food, great shopping, super convenient to everything. If you end up uptown, UWS within 2 blocks of Central Park (above 70th and below 86th) is pretty hard to beat.

Central Village and West Chelsea are my favorite places downtown. I live in the Village and love it, but it certainly lacks any real "edge" or any of the former bohemian appeal of its younger days and is pretty upscale (which is not such a bad thing as you get older).

If I were 10 years younger, I would probably live in West Chelsea. Aside from a few clubs on 17th, most of the streets west of 8th Ave are quiet and residential with great neighborhood restaurants, terrific galleries, coffee shops etc. I find West Chelsea to be exciting and one of the most diverse parts of the city in terms of people, income, and architecture. Some great modern buildings going up on 11th framing beautiful townhouses, great pre-war buildings, and culturally interesting housing and projects.

Hey back in the day 70/80's we loved to come into the city from Queens to beat up on the Yuppies/Hippies/Hipsters/junkies and all the other weirdos downtown/uptown all around the town.Get drunk and rowdy...hey what happened to the good old days???? :)

alanhart,

re-read OP's post. It was sarcasm.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

malthus -- funny comment about tourists. I'm sure you're right.

aboutready -- I share your feelings about Soho. All the good boutiques are gone, and I think it's the last neighborhood in New York I'd want to live in.

OT -- you have a great sensibility and made me regret a little my cranky post. I agree with you about Nolita -- some of the most charming blocks left in the city.

Uh, this is a good 10 years out of date.

Downtown used to be cool, but now all the morons figured it out and thats where they go. First year banking analysts don't want to live uptown, they go downtown.

Bridge and tunnel? They gave up on uptown a long time ago... they're now all over downtown.

Sorry, but the losers have already moved in...

nyc10022...agreed...downtown used to be great and i wouldn't turn down a terrific apartment there but it has definitely changed.

Actually, B&T have been all over downtown since the I got here in the mid-80s. Maybe it's partially just a function of increased population generally. I see hoards of young people anywhere there are reasonable prices. The reason I like the East Village is that a lot of the restaurants are quite small, and don't easily lend themselves to hoards of drunken 20 somethings like the larger places(see, e.g., The Smith and The Pour House). You can get a great meal without attitude at a great price and with some degree of peace. Not that I mind people, but.

> Actually, B&T have been all over downtown since the I got here in the mid-80s.

In segements, yes, but not overtaken. The worst of the worst used to go to places like ski bar and such. Now, east village is their first stop.

Plus, the NYU exploision. Just too many kiddies paid for by their parents trying to pretend they are scenesters. Plus the same folks who lived in murray hill the year before.

Point is, much of downtown is MOSTLY b&t.

which, btw, I love.

I LOVE that the folks who learned about Manhattan on friends have no interest in the upper east side!

nyc10022, I think the LES is their first stop. I don't know if you hang out down here much (not trying to be confrontational, just saying), and I wouldn't probably make it my first choice for a Friday or Saturday night at 9:30, but my point is if you want lovely places with great atmosphere, an eclectic, often international crowd, and not a frat or B&T scene, there are a ton of places that fit the bill here. Going to dinner at 7:30 is much different than tap sucking at 11:00.

10022,

http://www.zerve.com/OnLocation/GGirl

but this too shall pass. eventually

To each his own... live where you feel it....

manhattanfox, i agree. i wouldn't want to live on the UES (although sometimes I would like to because my daughter goes to school up there, and it would be so convenient), but there are many great things to be said about it. (although I did post something negative about SoHo, but I'll confess that's based on a few bad experiences and the fact that it doesn't have what I am looking for).

drunken louts can be annoying, but I'm mystified at this broad condemnation of the young. yes, the hipsters are also annoying, but it's very easy to discern where both they and the drunken louts hang out. I look around and in most places I just see people. I was walking around the East Village this evening, and I saw students, punks, hippies, old farts like me, families like mine, and a few hipsters, and a very loud engagement party at the usually quiet restaurant that we went to. It could have been annoying, but I'm happily married after 20 years, and I felt something positive in their excessive noise.

as you say, to each his own.

I didn't see anyone in Chanel.

"I LOVE that the folks who learned about Manhattan on friends have no interest in the upper east side!"

Nobody has any interest in the UES.

Who cares what is cooler? NY is cool wherever one is

It's anyhow all in walking distance or at least subway distance.

When I lived on the UES I spend all my free time on the WS
When I lived on the UWS I spend all my free time downtown now tell me
When I lived downtown I spend all my free time y you guessed in Central Park LOL

When you have kids you will quickly appreciate the UES...
When you need a great doctor you will quickly appreciate the UES

Again - who cares what is cool? Harlem was cool at one time and I still like it very much

"10022,
http://www.zerve.com/OnLocation/GGirl
but this too shall pass. eventually"

Yes, you need to go to TV SHOWS to find hip kids who live uptown. Check out where the ACTORS actually live...

"nyc10022, I think the LES is their first stop. I don't know if you hang out down here much (not trying to be confrontational, just saying), and I wouldn't probably make it my first choice for a Friday or Saturday night at 9:30, but my point is if you want lovely places with great atmosphere, an eclectic, often international crowd, and not a frat or B&T scene, there are a ton of places that fit the bill here. Going to dinner at 7:30 is much different than tap sucking at 11:00."

Agreed... but its why I hang out there frequently, but won't live there.

Whether you go out at 7 or 11 has no effect on who pukes on your stoop or what it smells like the next day.

> "I LOVE that the folks who learned about Manhattan on friends have no interest in the upper east
> side!"
> Nobody has any interest in the UES.

See...

I love it for who it keeps out!

Of course NYC10022 is white.
UES is not that great if you are not.

The UES is fine: if you are a blue haired lady on 5th or Park, a frat boy from Penn State who can't afford anywhere else in Manhattan, or a family with young kids, it's a great place to live.

that being said, other than the blue haired ladies and people who spend all their time in central park, i really can't think of anyone who would be better off on the UES than the UWS or the West Village. I just can't. But it's all taste. Believe me: I would be thrilled if everyone started to love the UES again--let prices in the west village plummet.

> a frat boy from Penn State who can't afford anywhere else in Manhattan,

Nope... they're downtown. FiDi is overrun with 'em. Try again though.

"i really can't think of anyone who would be better off on the UES than the UWS or the West Village. I just can't."

Hmmm... perfect. Don't want you up here either.

But, lets see.... UES/UWS same park distance... and UES is simply nicer (fewer projects). SIGNIFICANTLY better restaurants. More museums. Much better shopping. You don't face Jersey. Yankee Stadium much easier commute. Actually, can't think any reason UWS is better unless you live in the projects or need to be on the West Side.

10022, you're channeling Rufus. That's got to hurt.

And, I like the West Village, but I think much of the shine wore off in the last 10 years as the analyst kiddies moved in (who don't cook... there went a lot of what was local). More grimy spots than the UES by far, and, oh yeah, the NYU kiddies all over the place.

somebody give gramps his walker. nyc10022, there are young people all over the city. UES has traditionally been a destination, and it still is, it's just that the ones with more money moved to other neighborhoods.

Why all the hate for NYU students? UWS has Columbia.

nyc10022, if you are just going to construct straw men, what's the point?

calling FIDI 'downtown' is like calling East Harlem the UES. You know perfectly well that people are referring to the region from tribeca to chelsea.

if you think the UES has better restaurants than the UWS then we simply have different taste in food (or perhaps you lack functioning taste buds). but i'm sure we can both agree that downtown has far superior restaurants to both. i would venture that there are more exceptional and reasonably priced restaurants within a ten block radius of my apartment than there are on the entire upper east side.

if close proximity to the yankees is more important to you than close proximity to madison square garden, lincoln center, carnegie hall, giants stadium, and the theater district, then sure, the UES is more convenient. if you prefer proximity to the places i mentioned, there's a reason.

reason 2: subway access.
reason 3: riverside park (2 parks instead of one--and please don't compare the east river parks to riverside).
reason 4: you'd rather face the east river than the hudson?
reason 5: the shopping. most of us don't need to live near overpriced boutiques. the west side has far superior FOOD shopping--shopping that matters on a daily basis.
reason 6: diversity. you love your neighborhood for who it 'keeps out.' i like city living for who it lets in.

more 'grimy' spots? i hate to ask, but why do you even live in new york city? there isn't much grime in celebration, florida. not many college students either. and since you like the restaurants on the UES, you'd LOVE the restaurants in suburban florida.

But nyc10022, you gotta be white to benefit from living on the UES.
That cuts a lot of us out.

exis, i'm white and i see little benefit to living on the UES, even though my daughter goes to school up there.

many parts of downtown are great for raising a family.

I'm not saying because you are white you will benefit but only if you are.

> nyc10022, if you are just going to construct straw men, what's the point?

If you're going to lie, what's the point?

"if you think the UES has better restaurants than the UWS then we simply have different taste in food (or perhaps you lack functioning taste buds)."

Or pehaps you don't know squat about restaurants. UWS for a long time has been known as culinary wasteland.

Hell, even a know nothing about food like you can pick up a Zagat's guide? When you figure out all the numbers, then try a Michelin...

Seriously, this is yet another topic you don't know squat about.

"but i'm sure we can both agree that downtown has far superior restaurants to both. i would venture that there are more exceptional and reasonably priced restaurants within a ten block radius of my apartment than there are on the entire upper east side."

As judged by the guy who doesn't know anything about food. Sorry, that doesn't mean anything to me.

You were almost better off sticking to tax policy bonehead claims.

> reason 6: diversity. you love your neighborhood for who it 'keeps out.' i like city living for who
> it lets in.

Yes, the W Village is diverse. Are you a tourist or something?

> reason 5: the shopping. most of us don't need to live near overpriced boutiques.

You should have stuck with your Target in your New Jersey hometown then.

ok, you are delusional again. end of conversation.

White boy likes his homogenous neighborhood where he feels safe with no minorities around.
That's why nyc10022 like the UES. All other reasons are bs.

UES is much better way to live - clean, clean, clean, quiet and great light, Central Park !! and it's 5min quicker to the Hamptons ;-)

And Harlem is much nearer - last time I went to one of the club's there, I met Stevie Wonder and his entourage after midnight - that was a feast for the ears and the eyes :))

> ok, you are delusional again. end of conversation.

Yes, UWS is a restaurant paradise! You got me! Yes, **I** am deluded.
And we have a regressive tax system, too!

Any time you say someone else is wrong, its a pretty safe bet that you are...

"White boy likes his homogenous neighborhood where he feels safe with no minorities around.
That's why nyc10022 like the UES. All other reasons are bs."

Anyone pretending they're anywhere south of 96th street for the actual diversity is lying. Manhattan isn't diverse, sorry. Try an outer borough....

And it doesn't get much less diverse than 40,000 college kids all in the middle of the village.

haha whatever you say. Doesn't change the fact that you only want to be where white people are.

UES is either for poor people who can't afford other neighborhoods in Manhattan or for rich old people. Strange demographic.

I would much rather live in Midtown than live on the Upper East Side.

nyc10022 is right. Downtown is really dirty and grimy, and now overrun by nyu kids. Even UWS has a massive housing project in the west 60's.

"nyc10022 is right. Downtown is really dirty and grimy, and now overrun by nyu kids. Even UWS has a massive housing project in the west 60's."

Nice, rufus and nyc10022 on the same page. Quite hilarious. I don't understand all the neighborhood bashing - I think it's great that they can be so different and yet so close. To think that some people want to keep people out or cringe at the thought of "grime," well, that's not exactly a New York attitude.

The UWS housing project isn't just massive -- it's massivelicious!

rufus wishes he could live there, or anywhere nearby. But no.

Late to this but nyc10022 did the right thing and gave up. He realized that when rufus starts agreeing with you them your own argument is immediately rendered null and void.

Time to move on methinks.

When I said nyc10022 was channeling rufus, i didn't realize it was literally. Did he have the Ouija board out or something?

aboutready, seems so.

"To think that some people want to keep people out or cringe at the thought of "grime," well, that's not exactly a New York attitude."

Ha, the tourist telling us about our attitudes!

Spoken by someone who clearly just moved here...

You guys didn't figure out that rufus is searching for his own name on the board?

If you invite him in, don't complain when he gets here...

"Ha, the tourist telling us about our attitudes!"

Who is this "us" you speak for? And if all your ammo consists of making up and propagating this idea that I "just moved here" (utter nonsense), then that sums up how poor your arguments are, don't it? I think the numerous posts above got you pegged about right (~rufus).

> Who is this "us" you speak for?

Simple... not you or not the other tourists.

And don't lie... I didn't try to speak for anyone else.
I know you don't like being proven stupid, but don't make things up because you want them to be true.

YOU did. 'twas YOU who tried to speak for New York and the "new york attitude", and you're just a tourist.... (in addition to a hypocrite).

I love downtown. I don't think anyone would think I'm a tourist.

I don't care if rufus comes back, actually. He always provided a useful outlet. You brought him back so brilliantly in spirit that who needed him in reality?

It depends, do you want to be surrounded by cool, interesting people, or boring uptight toolboxes? Downtown vs. uptown? Pretty much a no-brainer.

blogo you are clueless

nyc10022, that's quite a stretch isn't it? I adopted a spokesperson role by typing "New York attitude" but you didn't by typing "us"? aboutready is right - your bitterness channels rufus to a tee.

"It depends, do you want to be surrounded by cool, interesting people, or boring uptight toolboxes? Downtown vs. uptown? Pretty much a no-brainer"

Yes, but only if you get your New York information directly from "The City" and other spinoffs of The Hills.

> "nyc10022, that's quite a stretch isn't it?

Nope, I nailed it right on the head!

> I adopted a spokesperson role by typing "New York attitude"

Exactly, and then lied and tried to claim I did.

> but you didn't by typing "us"?

Uh, notice I didn't speak for New Yorkers.

Genius, you were wrong and you lied. Don't try to argue it anymore.

> aboutready is right - your bitterness channels rufus to a tee.

Wow, yet another lie from you. I'm not surprised.

Aboutready didn't say bitter... YOU did.

You've graduated from spin, spin, spin to lie, lie, lie.

Thats's pretty pathetic.

Typing the word "lie" six times doesn't mean your accusations hold any weight. You weren't necessarily speaking for New Yorkers, but you were certainly speaking for some kind of group - unless you want to spin "us" into something else? And aboutready very clearly said you channeled rufus - I did ascribe the bitterness piece, but it's plainly obvious, especially when you yourself harped on how bitter he was. Eerie, no?

Hey, liar... I didn't speak for anyone... YOU did.

Spin your lies all you want, but you lied.

And you're even trying to spin what someone else said!

Downtown is where fabulous people live (like me)

I think they're talking about downtown MANHATTAN, not Brooklyn.