What's this worth?

I know this building well. Very solid financials. Actually a "nice" sponsor with a sense of decency. Never saw that anywhere else. And this broker is one of the good ones.

The street is as nice as they come in the WEst Village. The definition of charm. Apts like this line are small, but utterly charming and essence of GV--what people picture when they imagine GV. Great for singles--not so much for a couple. While there are studios as big and larger, it really is a true one bedroom and you can shut the door and have privacy. Bathroom is normal size and window in there is nice. Kitchen is obviously a total compromise and more for someone who orders in, eats out, or just has breakfast at home.

What's it worth? Unrenovated (this one is renovated) units sold for $499,000 18 months ago. Renovated units sold for substantially more than $479,000 in the past. Is this the right price point for this moment? My guess is that the broker would negotiate somewhat but it does indeed reflect an adjustment downward from the past by the sponsor.

Thanks KW

Lets say if I was to pay full asking, would it be worth it?
Say in comparison to something like this?
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1482326

Jumping in here - I don't know either building, but from an investment (and quality of life) standpoint I'd always choose elevator over walk-up. Walk-ups aren't very attractive from a resale point of view, and it's important to consider resale in a starter apartment such as this.

Again, I know you directed your last question to Kyle, but I'm going to jump in again and say no. From what I can tell the full ask (on your first listing) is too high. There's definitely room to negotiate.

Thanks bramstar, what would you think the ideal price you with negotiation?

My $.02. I lived on Hudson/Jane - close to the Horatio St listing in your second post - for years and years and LOVE what I consider the perfect intersection of MPD to the NW and West Village to the SE. So in that regard I prefer it to the Barrow St. location.

I know that Barrow St. building and spot- it's a nice quadrangle surrounding a sweet garden courtyard - and the immediately surrounding blocks are extremely quaint and charming - moreso even than the ones around Horatio though not by much.

The Horatio St. apt seems renovated (kitchen at least if not bath) way more nicely than the Barrow St place - another consideration for sure (though I'd want to look at the materials and finish work closely in person before passing final judgement.

All a long way of saying, I'm with bramstar - Barrow has a ways to come down. Perhaps more like $440k, leaving you $50k to renovate *nicely* and have a *nice* <$500k 1BR. OR, just buy the place on Horatio and call it a day.

Another caveat: it *appears* that there are several rental listings at Barrow. I didn't do the same look-see at Horatio. BUT, if those rental listings are by-owner (rather than sponsor) it could indicate a friendly (or friendlier) sublet policy, something that might come in handy down the line should you choose to keep the place even though you move on from it. I own a handful of units in buildings like this. If/when the policies ever change, you can sometimes argue to get grandfathered. If the board denies the request, you can always sell the place at that time as you'd have to if no subletting were allowed at all.

Oops just realized too that the Horatio St listing specifically calls out that subletting is freely allowed. To me that's a major plus. Add in the pretty nice reno, the better location (IMO), the elevator and the relatively close price and to me it's a no brainer: Horatio all the way. Unless you're a MAJOR reno-hound and love the process and decision making power, I'd say Horatio by a huge margin. And you can probably talk them down as well :)

A touch more food for thought (and sorry for the multiple posts its taken me to get my thoughts in order)...

Even though the Horatio St place calls itself a 1br/1ba, there are no pix of the bedroom. It could be super tiny, approaching a closet, particularly if this was converted from a studio (which is possible...)

Obviously I'd go see both places if you're in the market for such. And my preference for Horatio remains. However, if the bedroom there is punitively small (and, more importantly, materially smaller than the one at Barrow) it might sway me away from it.

I'll jump in as well. Unless sponsor and one bedroom is a big deal for you, I would recommend 99 Bank. I lived there for many years and sold in 05. There are terrific alcove studios in the D line with big windows and tons of light. You could easily carve out a bedroom if you wanted to. I built floor to ceiling closets along the wall opposite the windows. It was an outstanding apartment in a killer location. 3D seems to be languishing a little and no interior pictures indicates some work might be required. This is exactly the type of owner that might bite on a low ball offer in todays market.

Here are some pics of a combined D and E line at 99 Bank. The kitchen and the living room pics are all D. The bedroom is E

http://www.stribling.com/propinfo.asp?webid=1062900&type=SALE

Thanks for the comments. Very helpful!

I'm not so sure Horatio is the clear answer here. I feel very strongly that you should hedge against risk to the extent possible without compromising too much on what you want. Here, the Barrow complex of buildings has a couple or few hundred apartments. That means expenses for the building are widely dispersed and a nice hedge against capital costs, etc that crop up in the future. The Horatio St. building is a small 35 unit building. That is not a number I'm comfortable with, personally. Replacing a roof the same year the furnace or sidewalk or facade need to be fixed is a lot more expensive for 35 units than 300.

As for walk-ups, they are what they are. The utter charm of Barrow St. attracts a ton of people willing to deal with the walk up. Admittedly, it isn't for everyone, but location counts for a lot as does light, and Barrow has those to counteract the walk up somewhat. Given it is larger with less risk, IMO a better location (bit just a bit), and a very stable building with very reasonable board and sponsor, I'd keep it in the running. The Horatio reno looks nicer, but without seeing the floorplan, I couldn't begin to really compare the two.

As for 99 Bank, that is even more a matter of personal taste. For me, I strongly disliked the building and location. Noisy at night, expensive for what you get apartments, I was just unimpressed. Some people love Bank St. at that intersection. Not me. My b/f liked it and we argued a bit, but I had a really negative reaction to 99 Bank.

Thats the thing with Horatio st, the bedroom that is. The size of it does not compare to Barrow st but it does have slight bigger living room. I guess that balances out some what. The elevator is a plus indeed. Only concern that I have had is the drunks on the weekend pouring over from MePa and also the street seems a lot darker than most at night for some reason. Curb appeal, if any, Barrow takes it but it is a walk up, 4th floor is hard to take.

99 Bank. I actually liked the place. I used to live right on the same block but I did have negative reaction on most of it's studios. But what spinnaker1 has shown seems quite nice and of course double the price. :)

I knew this could be a minefield....!

I'm sorry, but in a small space its all about the light. I personally dislike cave apartments with two measly windows at one end. But then again, it doesn't really matter what I think. Hopefully I gave you some food for thought, stick.

Actually there was a studio on 2nd flr on 99 Bank I actually liked. Unlike other flrs, 2nd flr has higher ceiling and more light (sort of) with bigger windows.

Since you lived nearby you probably have an appreciation of the subtle (and less subtle) differences among the 3 locations. Only you can prioritize those for you.

Re: the risk from fewer units as it relates to capital costs. True. But the buildings are also approximately proportionately sized. A new roof on Barrow is waaaaaaay larger than a new roof on Horatio. So those costs will (somewhat) even out b/t the two buildings. Same with boilers. Output/capacity (and thus cost) per unit should be roughly comparable. Barrow may still win out in this comparison, but I don't think it's as stark as has been pointed out.

Also, back to location for a moment - the streets to the SW of Barrow are sort of desolate and uninteresting on the whole. Once you cross Hudson you trend down into no man's land until you get to "Hudson Square" whereas Horatio is better buffered all around (IMO).

It's surprising how different the areas are considering how close they are to each other. Historically, the lower West Village has sold lower that the upper. one possible reason is the lack of access to public transportation.

i agree with rds "I know that Barrow St. building and spot- it's a nice quadrangle surrounding a sweet garden courtyard - and the immediately surrounding blocks are extremely quaint and charming - moreso even than the ones around Horatio though not by much." except for the "not by much" part: i think the blocks lower down are palpably "more charming.

One issue with 85 barrow, though: I don't know what the current percentage of units owner by the Sponsor is, but I know it was a real issue for quite some time, so I would check on that.

Anyone else has thoughts on those two places? Any what would you think those two are worth?