Neighbor complains of nonexistant noise, demands renovation

Yet another reason I would never, ever buy in a Coop.

Noise can be a really complicated issue. We used to have a very loud neighbor who lived above us, and it was quite irritating. Even worse that the guy was just a jerk about it. He had no rugs, and walked around in hiking boots all the time, and had a rolling office chair. He always seemed to be moving around 24 hours a day which was absurd. We decided that he was probably a meth addict, and agreed with our super that he looked kind of "twitchy." It didn't stop until he left. We were renters though, and this is a university apartment, so we didn't get the police involved, only campus security. If we were owners, we would have done a hell of a lot more.

That being said, it made our lives miserable while it lasted. My wife is very sensitive to noise, and can hear basically anything. She's also a light sleeper, which is a terrible combination. We ended up having to always have a an air purifier and a fan on very loud in our bedroom in order to not hear the noise, and she slept with earplugs. This also helped when the fraternity next door was playing music at 2AM on a Tuesday.

What is my point here. I guess it is that to the person underneath, the noise could be unbearable and really irritating. But they also could be oversensitive and a jerk. I don't think ignoring the problem will make it go away. There is probably a specific dB level that the noise should be under. I would recommend that you ask the board to pay for someone to do a quick evaluation. They could probably have someone stand in her apartment with a decibel meter, while someone walks around in hers. IF its under the level, then she has no recourse. She also should be doing her part, using a fan or air purifier to add noise to help with sleeping if necessary. Or she could be the one adding the insulation. Good luck, you should try to make sure that this doesn't evolve to the point where lawyers and police get involved because that can involve a lot of time and money.

Police have no jurisdiction here.

LuchiasDream's point cuts the other way, too. I prefer coops precisely because I have recourse if I'm under auditory assault by a neighbor with a dog that won't shut up, a stereo he keeps at "11" on the volume knob, or hold parties until 4am on Wednesdays. "Cooperative" living is the idea. While outrageous anecdotes such as this give fuel to the I-would-never-want-a-coop school of thought, the reality is that most coops owners live happily together and the house rules keep the community functioning in a way that makes the building an agreeable place to call home.

In a condo, I'd have to suffer endless transients coming and going from investment units, I'd have little I could do if someone's dog were urinating in the hall, if a neighbor were being un-neighborly.

Bottom line: to each his own. There are benefits to both forms of ownership.

perhaps instead of going barefoot, you could wear flip-flops - the noise may be inaudible to you, but could be amplified downstairs. flip-flops pad the 'boom' of the footfall. instead of your talk of legal counsel which will only escalate the situation, you should allow the coop have a third party asses the noise level. if the problem is structural, then the coop will have the problem remedied.

cover your floors 80% carpet and there is no recourse for the downstairs neighbor. I am assuming when you had floors put in, there was a layer of noise resistant material used.

Police may have no jurisdiction, but that doesn't mean the owner downstairs won't call them.

in poorly-constructed buildings, no amount of carpeting is going to help with noise.
another solution is to get an estimate on soundproofing either your floor or her ceiling. come to an agreement with your downstairs neighbor and the coop, and split the soundproofing cost between yourself, your downstairs neighbor and the coop.

Try this.

Roll up your existing carpet and buy a new pair of heels.
As soon as you get home, put on those new set of heels and try to break them in. Walk around as MUCH as possible...do it in the morning hours..the evening hours...if you can, walk around in them if you need to use the restroom at 3am.

Worked for my friend like a charm. The neighbor downstairs from her told her she won't complain anymore and would like to get back to pre-complaining stage.

The key is to let them know how good they got it in the past.

I would make complaints to your concierge/frontdesk/management/board about your downstairs neighbors being really loud. That they are:

1. Pounding on their ceiling/your floor. <--which is harassment.
2. Is playing TV/music with their speakers on their ceiling/your floor.
3. Is harassing you in the elevators.
4. Etc...

But, only if your downstairs neighbor is a wacko-nut-job and you're doing nothing but being a reasonable person. I had an old-hag-unemployed-mom-grandma who did nothing all day except listen for any - any noises from inside the building.

I'm thinking that I would want to know what my legal standing was because it sounds like you are doing plenty to cater to this woman downstairs who may be just a spoiled, rich wackadoodle. If you are so nice & allow the inspection & whatnot, do you then open a can of worms & find yourself on the hook for the cost of remedying the situation? Certainly you want to appear to be sympathetic & cooperative but not create a situation where you've just shot yourself in the foot. Good luck & let us know what happens.

call up your downstairs neighbor and tell her that she can kiss your ass.

Certainly don't shoot yourself in the foot or you won't be able to use ericho's terrific suggestion about the FMPs. It's true, maybe this B@$ downstairs just wants to eff with you; there are people out there like that, sadly.

Call a lawyer and see if there is anything you need to do. I like mine, if you want his name I can send it.

i was the downstairs neighbor once upon a time. my upstairs neighbor also claimed she was not making any noise.
i moved.
i later found out that the new people moved in, had the same problem as i, and the person upstairs was evicted.
that is why it is probably in everyone's best interest to get this problem solved as quickly and amicably as possible.

it's very hard for a co-op to "evict" someone.

the person upstairs was sent a notice to cure while i was still living there. then i moved. after the new people moved in and started complaining, the person upstairs was sent a notice to quit. the person then moved. it wasn't an eviction, per se.

I'm taking Quiet at his/her word that they are tiptoeing about up there. How long have you lived there? Might this be a class thing? HOW DARE YOU, somebody from a low-paying profession, live in this building? I'll show YOU.

This is why I live on the top floor.

I think the prudent thing to do is to respond to correspondence from the Board - they are the ones who have the power. I would ignore her. Even if you did everything she asked, she would find something new to complain about. That's just the way some people are. I would confirm that with the Super - he'll confirm her record, which I would guess includes multiple complaints about any and everything. There is a reason the board ignores her.

Keep in mind that some peopel's 'boom-boom' are other's 'pitter-pat'. The only acceptable solution for you neighbor down under is to install a unified antigravity generator. Prehaps you could arrange a situation where you could experience the noise first hand before you decide what lenghts you might go to satisfy the auditory needs of others. If it is loud and noticeable you should consider reasonable changes to abait the issue.
On a side note, I have family in Boston with 4 young kids who are always running in the apartment. They took extraordinary measures to reduce the this type of noise. It did little to quiet the downstairs neighbor. On a visit to Boston I was in their apartment at about 7pm when the neighbor knocked and insisted that the kids stop running and making noise. I fielded the complaint. I asked the neighbor if she was aware of the changes that were made to placate the situation. She, in a rude tone, asked me if I'd like to buy her apartment and suffer in her behalf. I had a better idea. I told her if she ever came up to complain again I would personaly come to Boston and help remove all the changes made to reduce the noise and run all night myself. I also informed her that any and all legal action would be handled by me. Some folks in apartments think they live in private houses. Lots of people i this town are only happy when they complain.

I would only let someone inspect my apartment if I had no other choice, that's me, I'm private.

Here are some examples of noise from my upstairs neighbor. It's horrific.
This goes on at all hours of the day and night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nyzi_SXu3c&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQBdI2RKbqk&feature=channel

So he makes popcorn. Big deal.

(PS, that actress is really good.)

lol alanhart - i am the girl in the videos, and no i'm definitely not acting! the person who lives above me is a woman (not a guy) who never leaves her apartment. she used to live in another apartment in my building and then moved above me, because the person who used to live under her called the police on her repeatedly. i've learned to deal with the noise as best i can. i often wonder what the heck it is she's doing up there, tho. :)

Here's another thumbs up for top floors. My a/c bill is no doubt higher but not having anyone overhead is very nice.

But, is your winter heater bill lower? ;)

No heating bills in coop. But nice thought.

Start making chicken cutlets for dinner and make sure you beat the meat really thin.

bela...that was funny...go to your downstairs neighbor and ask her to go to your apartment and walk the floors while you're in her apartment and see if she has a point...maybe when you had new floors put in they forgot something...other than than tell you neighbor to move to a house in the country.

I used to have 2 people living above me who made 'normal' noise, and it wasn't during the night. Ever since that woman above me moved in, it's been like a nightmare. Also, not only does she not work or never leave her apartment, she supposedly has piles of boxes and papers, and created a pathway through the boxes and papers so she can walk through her apartment through all her stuff. She also has her TV on 24 hours a day. Oh the joys of nyc living. @kylewest @NYCMatt I envy you!

if the board is ignoring her, you should be doing the same. i have people in my building who live to complain, she must be one of those. don't get upset, that's what you downstairs neighbor is hoping for and will be the "winner" when this occurs. enjoy your apartment and the renovation. it seems that you have been more then accomodating.

I don't want to hijack this thread but does anyone have advice for me? Or should I continue ignoring/dealing with it.

Well, arnold, if the woman upstairs is living in such conditions that there are boxes everywhere & paths to get through, you might have a valid safety complaint (with building & safety department?)

Ask mimi the crazy cat lady, she lives 5000 miles away but seems to have an opinion.

Quiet, do you have surround sound? Perhaps it's that (bombs bursting in air, I call it) & not your footfalls that are bothering miss thing downstairs.

Arnold Layne is the name of a Pink Floyd song. That's not my real name... I'm a girl. :) Thanks for your advice.

Many boards in this situation will send an acoustical engineer to install a sound meter in the affected neighbor's apartment, according to a coop/condo lawyer I spoke with for a story I did last summer about kid noise. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/realestate/06cov.html)

You could also try free mediation: A non-profit called Safe Horizon will contact your neighbor and arrange a sit-down with you two and a mediator to try to work things out. We blogged about this service on BrickUnderground a couple of months ago: http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2009/04/soothe_your_savage_neighbor_with_free_mediation.

If you want some more specific advice, feel free to post for help on BrickUnderground or submit a Q&A to our blog - we have some lawyers and managing agents on tap to answer stuff like this.

Best,

Teri