Importance of Ceiling Height

My post-war apartment has 99" - probably closer to standard (for post-war 80s) but not too far from yours.

The issue is not the exact measurement in my opinion - it is your feel for the place overall. Nobody will outright measure the ceilings - at this point it is how you feel about the apartment overall. dig deep.

7'11" is really low..It will definitely start to bother you after you're there a while.

I thnk ceiling height does matter. In terms of the true size of the ceiling (as actually measured with a tape measure by you and not based on what you've been told by a broker or seller) for me it breaks down like this (generally speaking):

1. Ceiling height under 8'6" - not acceptable, and will hurt resale potential.

2. Ceiling height from 8'6 - 11'0" - the majority of NYC units have this. The taller the ceiling, the more gracious and better the resale value. A 8'6" - 9'0" ceiling seems like the height most often encountered.

3. Ceiling height above 11'0" - rare and desirable. The only caveat is that if the ceiling height is TOO tall (above 14' or so) the place can feel like an airplane hanger and you have to think about how to balance the proportions of the room(s) much more carefully.

#3 - sounds like he is talking mostly about pre-war. I am pretty sure a good number of post-war (excluding lofts) start at 8'. For Pre-war it starts at 9'. This is one of the distinguishing features for pre-war. I think it clearly doesn't hurt resale if the building keeps selling well.

Still - the OP has lower ceilings than that.

OP here. Thanks for your thoughts. I think the low ceiling is just making the aparmtent seem small to me even though it is a good size for a 2 bedroom in terms of sq. ft. I also worry a little bit about resale value.

yeah I have to wonder about a place with 7'3" celings. Is it a basement apartment? That sounds really, really low. Granted it is rare, but people do get that tall.

OP here. Thanks for your thoughts. I think the low ceiling is just making the aparmtent seem small to me even though it is a good size for a 2 bedroom in terms of sq. ft. I also worry a little bit about resale value.

OP- Yes you're right to worry about resale. The ceilings are quite low, and that hard to pinpoint feeling that held you back you describe may well be felt by future buyers too.

I think no one actually goes out and measures an apartment's ceilings. Usually they just get a sense and if it is a place that is clearly claustraphobic, they will just feel it. If it isn't - then it will hurt resale.

#11 here - i meant if it doesnt give everyone that sense of smallness (this is without a tape measure), then it will not hurt resale. IF it is so obvious without a tape measure, then it will hurt.

My interior DOORS are 8 feet tall.

7'11" is too low. OK if you're renting, but to own? Pass on the apartment.

I learned about building codes in Michigan, so I can't be authoritative here, but under 8 feet sounds like a code violation to me. You could look it up, or call the local building department and ask. There are so many great apartments coming on the market on a daily basis right now, I definitely would not bid on this. Investment-wise, your re-sale is hurt for sure because of all the lighting fixture one cannot install in this place. My husband's over 6 ft also, we couldn't live there.

Ceiling hites matter. We had an opportunity to but a 5th floor loft with 9+ foot ceilings and decided to pay the same price for the third floor b/c of the 12+ foot ceilings. That extra hight can make all the difference.

Ceiling hights matter. We had an opportunity to but a 5th floor loft with 9+ foot ceilings and decided to pay the same price for the third floor b/c of the 12+ foot ceilings. That extra hight can make all the difference.

I think 8 feet is actually a code require by NY: http://www.tenant.net/Other_Laws/MDL/mdl.html (go edit and find for ceiling in the text)

Thoughts? All else being equal, what is the pricing adjustment/value added to a unit with very high ceilings vs. normal 9' ceiling height? Not in a loft, but in a building like those on West 67th, the "artist's studios"?

fwiw, i find that buyers value this somewhere between 7%-10% for a ceiling amenity of say 12' compared to standard 8' comparable unit

Under 8 feet ceilings are awful, going up to 9 feet adds value, but once you go past 9 feet in height for the average one, two or three bedroom unit it's not something you are likely to appreciate and might actually dislike as the higher ceilings cause lighting issues and result in increased heating and cooling costs.

not sure I agree with that riversider...i see it out in the field..u put 2 exactly same units on the market with only difference is one has 8' ceilings and one has 12' ceilings, i guarantee u the unit with high ceilings and likely larger windows, more sun, bigger feel, etc.. trades at a noticeable premium to the standard 8' ceiling unit.

I think the bigger issue is that it is already an issue for OP. If it bothers you already it will just bother you more later. Ceiling height is really important, so wait it out!

this is very important. from a health point of view, ceiling lower than 9 feet will cause distress to human beings, and will create a lot of mental symtoms

It's tough to find two otherwise-comparable apartments with much difference in ceiling height, and a lot depends on the overall scale of the building, when it was built, and the intended market.

E.g., 845 Fifth and 28 E 10th are both 1920s. 845 has over 12', but the main rooms are nearly 800 ft² each, so the height had to correspond. 28 E 10th is about 8.5', but the rooms/windows/doors are in scale so the ceilings don't feel low.

130 W 12th, built several years later, is only 9' floor-to-floor, so ceilings are maybe 8'3". That has the broad windows of its time, so also feels in scale.

One apples-to-apples comparison would be in newer buildings where the ceiling height rises by a foot or so for the floor below a change in setbacks or configuration, because plumbing risers have to shift horizontally in the hung ceiling of the interior rooms. Those apartments should sell or rent faster or for more than on the floor below.

UD, would it make that much of a difference from 9.5 to 12? I think that is what Riversider is saying.

obviously less, but there will still be a premium for the unit with 12' ceilings, if all else is the same. As someone noted, its very difficult/rare to be able to quantify this. so lets say something like this

between 8' and 12' --> somewhere between 7% and 10% for ceiling amenity
between 9.5' and 12' --> maybe its between 5%-7%

def a diminishing return as ceiling height goes higher and we do this comparison

with low ceilings it reminds me of those cartoons where someone's head gets continually bopped into a ceiling fan...tho i guess thats not funny if someone puts a kid on their shoulder..

Stand towards the back of your room as far away from the windows as you can- that would be the best place to test how you feel about the ceiling height. Part of the equation is the windows and how high they go - floor to ceiling windows (or at least the to ceiling part) will probably make you feel better about lower ceiling height, as will more windows. Rooms that aren't so deep also won't feel so low ceiling.

Higher ceiling has another benefit, LARGER closets. Out of season clothes can be shelved way up, and rotate them back when needed. just more storage space in general.

I think in a normal sized apt, anything above about 10 feet is useless space. If the rooms are very large, then 12' would be nice but a standard 15x15 room with 12' ceilings would seem to be a wasted premium.

9' ceilings are ideal for most "standard" sized rooms (up to 20 feet long or wide). Anything taller than that in rooms smaller than 20', it does, as anonymous pointed out, start to look like an airplane hangar -- or worse, you're at the bottom of a Tupperware container. Taller than 12', the rooms need to be proportionally bigger so they don't look out of scale.

i guess im talking more about your luxury apt, not your typical 'normal sized' cookie cutter apt with typical 20'x 15' living areas. yes, i agree with your hangar reference for smaller sized rooms.

higher end (larger) apts w/ 12'+ ceilings adds a dynamic that demands a premium compared to comparable apts that have your standard heights -- that was my main point. then u got the "effect" of utilizing that extra height with x-large windows, expansive views, etc.

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=2261083

just an example.

"Ceiling hites matter. We had an opportunity to but a 5th floor loft with 9+ foot ceilings and decided to pay the same price for the third floor b/c of the 12+ foot ceilings. That extra hight can make all the difference."

sounds like 21 e 22 st--ages ago i owned a 3rd fl which has 12+ feet vs 9 feet upstairs; and the 3rd fl has flr to ceiling windows facing south--nice apt

also see 181 e 90 st--floors above, i believe the 18th are 2 ft higher than those below--in this case i think the developer overpriced the higher ceilings in comp--i almost bought on the 17th fl, with the thought that, when i sold, my basis would be relatively low, and i wouldnt be competing with upstairs as the dev'per had to

Ceiling height of 15' with large casement windows as in the "artist studio" buildings, lots of northern light, versus 9' on the same footprint (so, no, not as large as in Urbandigs luxury apartment, but not cookie cutter) seem to be offered at significantly higher prices, but perhaps this is more a function of the building type?

15' ceiling lets one put loft above kitchen etc, and gain lots of usable space--

A possible downside to extremely high ceilings (15+ feet) in condos (not sure about coops) is that the area of the extra height may be added in to the floor area to arrive at the % of common charges (typically not at the full area of the "extra" space but at some percentage of the floor area. I know this was done in some buildings in Tribeca which had several units with extremely high ceilings.

I knew someone who sold his apartment to buy in a north-facing artist's building with high ceilings and huge windows. He said the apartment was constantly cold. Two years later, he sold and re-bought in his original building. Most people can't afford that kind of mistake. That said, our first NYC apartment was a post-war with 8 foot ceilings. Beautiful apartment, beautiful views, but I was always aware of the low ceilings.

As someone who lives in an apartment with 10' ceilings, I can say it is definitely noticeable to me when I step into a place with even a foot lower ceiling height. I am completely spoiled now.

Of course, some of my aversion to lower ceilings may stem from my childhood, which was spent living in a pre-Revolutionary war house that had such low ceilings that once I grew to my full height of 5'9" I was forever banging my head on the door frames...

Semi-studio buildings like 44 W 77th, 50 E 77th, 1020 Fifth, etc., are a good compromise.

For each set of three floors at, say, 9', the upper and lower floors would have an extra 1.5-height room of 16' and 12'. That room would be step-down in the upper apartment. The middle of the three apartments would be missing that extra room.

Here's a cross-section of 1020 Fifth: http://www.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/dlo?obj=ldpd_YR_1373_MH_001_013&size=large

lol, bramstar.

Not sure how much of a premium higher ceilings command, but I bet anything below 9' could result not only in a discount but a deal killer. Many people, especially if someone is over 6', would reject it outright.

New2Me re-sarted this thread asking about "Not in a loft", but that's what I know. I blogged thsi week about an excellent example of paired sales at 99 Reade St. Short story: 3rd fl loft with ceiings higher than 5th floor loft by 3+ feet sold at 11% premium. The full story, with other "analysis", is found at thsi week's post and the two 2011 posts that are linked there:

http://www.realtown.com/sandymattingly/blog/loft-neighborhoods-tribeca/flip-city-99-reade-street-loft-sold-in-2011-sells-again-up-4/

I would say that in the loft market that is less of a premium for higher ceilings than it is a discount for ceilings under 10 ft. YMMV

New2me -- typically yes, but that bldg also has high floor large units that dont have the ceiling amenity. Thats why I thought it was a somewhat decent example

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/689959-condo-240-east-10th-street-east-village-new-york

outdoor space kinda screws up the comparison though.

Sandy -- thx for the example!!

You're welcome, Mr. Digs!

i think you've already concluded that ceiling height matters - and you're right. my husband is over 6'4" and feels every inch on the ceiling height/door height front.

if you're like him, you'll feel claustrophobic after a while in a short heighted room. i'm only 5'7" and i feel that way.

go to a pre war apartment and you'll see the difference. most of them have ceiling heights in the 9 foot + range. mine is about 9 and a half, and i wish it were higher!!!!!!

i guarantee u the unit with high ceilings and likely larger windows, more sun, bigger feel, etc.. trades at a noticeable premium to the standard 8' ceiling unit.

Urban, you're conflating attributes. If your adding bigger windows and more sunlight how can you be certain what's causing the price increase?

Many thanks to all for the comments and perspective. You all, the StreetEasy community, are a great resource.

60 Sutton Place South is an excellent "case in point".
Two lines, CS and CN have have the same foot print but the top few floors have higher ceilings and sell for a large premium ( greater than a floor differential)

We paid a premium for our apartment for 12' VS 8.5' ceilings in the same line apartments below us. We also have more light and better exposure (clear rooftop where apartments below do not), plus a few customizations that added value, and total premium was about 13% to direct comps below. To us, the ceilings alone were worth 10%, which seems consistent with prior re-sales as well...

i think that goes hand in hand with the premium discussion that higher ceilings offer.

Life is too short for ceilings too short.

If you're tiny , it's OK

Higher ceilings work better when their are moldings.