do brokers have a secret stash of listings? and other questions...

ACH, SE has most of the listings. The brokers don't have any secrets. They might know of something that is coming to the market. When they get a listing, it will show up here and/or the NYT. It is in the benefit of the seller to have the property advertised in these 2 places.
Start searching by yourself, go to open houses and you'll have a feel of what is happening. Search for condos, prewar if this is what you want. Ask the brokers you meet. Harlem is a unique market and it pays to investigate it. Some places are totally out there in the prices they are asking. Others are selling for 50% cuts. I chose not to have a broker and I am happy with the decision.

If a broker can sell a unit through his "contacts" he'll do that prior to listing to avoid sharing commission, but in this market doubtful that happens often.

90 Percent of all deals are co-broke, so I agree with Riversider - what a broker does have, depending on his/her contacts is they know who is thinking about selling, what owner is thinking about turning co-op, etc. The notion that a broker simply shows apartments is wrong. Good brokers don't have secret staches but they know what is happening in a particular building, apartment, or block before you do and before it hits the Streeteasy or the New York Times.

They do know, but you can find out as well. The danger is that some dishonest brokers will steer you in the direction that suits them better. You can find out about every condo project in Harlem in forums. Unless you have someone you really, really trust, or you need to buy a coop, which is more complicated, you can do the search yourself and after decide if you want a broker.

this question sounds more about resales.

to Dorai: thanks, that makes sense...and I hope they would....now how do I find one of those??? ;-)

I have been to some of the Condo-showings at the Audubon Terrace buildings that Citi Habitats is showing, specifically Sandy Edry who seems to be a big-shot Upper Manhattan broker there. He has a lot of listings everywhere from 145th to 158th along Riverside Drive.
None of those are income-restricted...but then I did not like most of them that much either...

It just seemed that all their agents were so busy shuttling people thru that I found it very hard to talk to any of them, not to mention getting any kind of useful information out of them of the kind that Dorai is talking about....

most agents just do small-talk and seem very pushy/too friendly/chatty, that is just not me...which goes back to my question #3, I would prefer for the broker to get a feel for what I want...that would really only work if I had a buyer's broker, it seems...

1. Again, no secret stash, however, some brokerage company's that are not memebers of the real estate board of New York may not have their listings mirrored to this site or to the New York Times. Its importatnt to check if they have websites and see if what is listed on their website is listed on the NYtimes or Streeteasy. Secondly, you have to make sure it's their exclusvie. If it is not (especially in a sale) and they are advertising someone else's exclusive, it's a good reason to move on - this broker may be trouble.

I am asking bc for where I am looking to buy (Hamilton Heights/WashHeights South/ Central Harlem -
They ahve to file an Offering Plan with the attorney general's office. You can call the state attorney general's office and find out if a plan has been filed for a particular building. Another thing you can do is call the management office that handles the building and say you are interested, do they know if the building has any plans to turn condo, or ask someone in the building, although that sounds crazy, the super may know, nothing works like leg work.

3. when I was looking for a place to rent, I always got so frustrated bc I felt the brokers never "got", what I was looking for! - In a rental, the broker is paid by the rentee - except in a large building, where the developer may pay. You cant compare looking for a rental with looking for a sale.

I would see which broker is handling the negibhorhoods that you are interested in purchasing or renting and contact that person. Yes you can do it yourself as well.

to Mimi: I think Condo is the way to go in my case, and it seems also most Coop's up here are HDFC income-restricted (at least my price range)...

"You can find out about every condo project in Harlem in forums"...so you mean just ask by giving building address?

Thanks, still a newbie here.
modefrau

Of course we have a secret stash of listings. how do you think we keep ahead of all these new RE sites and the broker haters? They can hate all they want, but they never get to see the really good stuff which we keep to ourselves.

;-)

Gotcha.

When I actually used to show buyers apartments, i was always frustrated when I'm show a buyer 3 units which were EXACTLY what they wanted, but they insisted the wanted to see more because they "didn't want to miss anything" or :hadn't seen enough yet". I got the distinct impression a lot of them thought brokers showed them crap first and save the good stuff for later. Trust me, it never worked like that: you showed what you thought was the best stuff first, and when you were done with that you started grasping at straws trying to come up with anything to show these buyers and praying for new listing to hit the market.

"If a broker can sell a unit through his "contacts" he'll do that prior to listing to avoid sharing commission, but in this market doubtful that happens often."

If the broker is REBNY member, they better do that really fast, because you don't have much time between when you get your exclusive inked and when you HAVE to start co-broking.

human nature...

we all hear "those stories" and sometimes believe them.

30 yr, what's the current rule regarding co-brokering?

30yrs
I like how you knew that the 3 apts were exactly what they wanted, and how they were stupid enough to want to see more since they have to see more in order for satisfaction to reign!
really!

@30yrs_RE_20_in_REO:
...and then they'd take the one that was totally not what they had described to you they wanted?
hehe

People "might" describe what they want,,,but nobody is that sure...

If a broker had two units one very sellable and one that he just can't move, why not try mixing in the bad unit and hope. On a side note, I think we all have heard of the broker who baits and switches. I know I had that experience.

"I like how you knew that the 3 apts were exactly what they wanted, and how they were stupid enough to want to see more since they have to see more in order for satisfaction to reign!
really!"

When they said "yeah, this is exactly what we are looking for, but we feel we haven't seen enough". That's how. Really.

I'm not talking about every buyer who I ever showed units to.

"If a broker had two units one very sellable and one that he just can't move, why not try mixing in the bad unit and hope. On a side note, I think we all have heard of the broker who baits and switches. I know I had that experience."

This is 100% correct: when I used to do a lot of sales training, one of the hardest things to teach to new agents is not to substitute their tastes with the buyer's. I had one (unsuccessful) new agent who refused to show in 60's buildings be HE hated them. I can't tell you how many times i tried to point out to him that they were full of occupants, so SOMEONE bought them. And it's almost always that you have 4 units to show to someone, but you really want to sell them one, and you throw in one real dog to show how good the other one's are.... and the buyer likes the dog.

Ypu can ask here about specific buildings. We have long threads about Harlem here in SE. Check them out, there might be some info there that is valuable for u. I am also waiting to buy in Harlem. There are several posters here that live or want to buy there. You also have the occasional idiot (NYCMatt?) that says that Harlem is horrendous and not livable. Just ignore them.

"@30yrs_RE_20_in_REO:
...and then they'd take the one that was totally not what they had described to you they wanted?
hehe "

It depends which case you are talking about: in the case of the one's who saw the 3 which they loved but needed to "see more", in almost every case, while they were looking for more to get themselves comfortable, all three sold and they spend many months looking for those units again, but since the market had gone up in the meanwhile, found themselves further (?farther?) and further behind the market. As much as I hate the "buy now or be priced out forever" as much as most on this site, unfortunately like most similar tactics it works because in the short tem it is often accurate. You know the single hottest "hot button" I've pointed out to sales trainees? "We just lost out on our dream apartment. They either buy the next decent thing they see, (and often get involved in bidding wars to do so) or they look forever .

"People "might" describe what they want,,,but nobody is that sure..."

people can look right on this sight as to why I have said multiple times why buyers do often need brokers.

"30 yr, what's the current rule regarding co-brokering?"

I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think it used to be 72hrs and it got cut to 24hrs? Ali probably knows better than I do.

to Mimi:
I already live up here and like, so that's why I would like to buy here also.
And I am riding my bicycle to work everyday (weather permitting) so I would prefer to stay close to the Western side of Manhattan bc of the bikepath, and stay below the GW-bridge, bc that's where the hilly area starts...

One thing I will say is that while I'm not totally clued into that market, historically there have been brokers IN THAT AREA with listings who classically were not part of the "regular" Manhattan brokerage community who wouldn't/didn't share their listings with the lower Manhattan firms. Tactically I actually think this was a smart idea, because they had a lot more to lose than gain, in that the out of area broker's needed access to their listings much more than these brokers needed access to theirs. I honestly do not know how much of this is STILL going on. But it's probably fairly easy to figure out with a little work: call a few brokers in each of the two categories and see if there are holes in the "big market" firm's inventory which the small market firms are pitching you. If it turns out there are one or two, then there are probably a reasonable amount more.

Often when you're walking in a neighborhood, you'll see a RE office with pics & info in the window. Is that true in Harlem, too, I don't know, but I guess so. As someone said previously, there's nothing like doing the leg work. Start looking around & talking to people & you'll be closer & closer to what you're looking for. Congratulations!

great suggestions from all of you, thanks so much!
it's still a while, but now I have some good ideas how to start!

and @drdrd, that is how I found my rental I have now, tiny brokerage in an even tinier space, right up there!

modefrau

Secret not so secret......
Here's one on corcorans site that touted as "new this week" and shows up on streeteasy as no longer available after being not so new...
StreetEasy History
10/17/2008Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,395,000.
04/14/2009Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,195,000.
06/11/2009Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,950,000.
08/26/2009Listing is no longer available

corc
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1560423

streetez
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/421795-coop-228-west-21st-street-chelsea-new-york

Maybe corcoran with their "camera shy" floorplans and now this have a mini streeteasy boycott?

And another "new this week"

corc
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1534400

streetez
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/404501-condo-224-west-18th-street-chelsea-new-york

StreetEasy History
04/15/2009Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,980,000.
07/08/2009Price decreased by 4% to $1,895,000.
08/26/2009Listing is no longer available.

REBNY rules call for a 24-hour co-broke, (see, 30 Years, you got it right) but of course everyone has a secret stash. I predict that's only going to get more marked as technology supposedly makes things more "transparent."

Here's a story: We're renting out our old-but-renovated studio in the Parc Vendome. We were moving to list the unit with my firm (I'm an agent) but had two offers on it before we even got a chance to list: one someone who is already living in the building who got tipped off by our doorman (who knew that we had moved out and were renovating for a tenant)-- and one a relocating friend of our contractor's.

So yes, if you really want the best rentals, wear out some shoe leather.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

"but of course everyone has a secret stash"

I have read this before and it always reminds me why I don’t work with brokers. Any broker with a “secret stash” is seriously undermining the seller who is paying that broker a commission to promote the property as aggressively as possible.

Read the post again, scoots; ali was preparing to list the unit & meanwhile 2 potential tenants appeared, thus ali's suggestion to be out & about & on top of things that are happening NOW. Oooo, seriously undermining the seller. Maybe you want night classes for reading comprehension. If you're questioning my ali, you'll get a fight from me, %#@*&.

Ali, are you saying that brokers keep sell listings to themselves? In this market?

"of course everybody has a secret stash" This really worries me. Is this legal?

You guys forget that there are still, although rare, "open listings". You CAN'T put these on any 'quasi MLS' because you don't have an exclusive to co-broke. It often occurs when someone knows they are listing, haven't chosen an exclusive broker to rep them yet, but some broker has a buyer to show it to. In this instance, de facto you have these secret stashes: would you think that brokers would have a place for "listings we might be getting an exclusive on" for other brokers to see? In addition, some of this is caused by sellers who are trying to save money and only pay the buyer's broker: I have a direct listing from a seller who is only paying the buyers broker half so I can't advertise it or co-broke it.

"I have read this before and it always reminds me why I don’t work with brokers. Any broker with a “secret stash” is seriously undermining the seller who is paying that broker a commission to promote the property as aggressively as possible. "

Good for you. Make sure to stick to your principles and pay more for an apartment because there will have to be 2 brokers involved instead of one. You know, you severe broker haters sure seem willing to bite off you own noses to spite your own faces.

I think it's also great how you know exactly what services every single seller is expecting from every single broker and what their agreements are and even if they don't include things, you have determined that the broker is responsible to supply them anyway.

I hate the industry more than the individual brokers... but I'm coming around to seeing that the "industry" is made up of individual people. Can you smack the female broker sitting across from yourself... her God can go fuck himself...

30yrs, I think you are referring to the list of places the seller's brokers are "about" to have. Like, I might have something next week. I don't know if you call this "secret stash". The idea that your broker has something that is not in the market never materialized for me. I don't know about bigger deals or commercial work, though. Maybe these tend to be more inside.
How come you represent a seller who doesn't pay you?

"How come you represent a seller who doesn't pay you?"

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. But it's part of the changing landscape and the uncertainty everyone (including the DOS office) has about what relationships are what.

30yrs, I was trying to understand something: when you say "I have a direct listing from a seller who is only paying the buyers broker half so I can't advertise it or co-broke it" it means you are a seller's broker? She only pays the buyer's broker?

drdrd, thanks for having my back.

w67th, how do you know my god is male?

there's also another "grey listing" case, which is when you're working in a building openly representing a seller, and a neighbor comes to you, and says, "hey, come look at my place, I don't really want to sell, but I would if someone would payme $XX for it, so if someone comes to your listing in the building and wants something bigger, you can show them my place, and if you sell it, I'll pay you xx% -- but please don't advertise this, I don't want my neighbors to bug me."

ali r.
[downtown broker}

mimi - it's what I'm talking about in the "But it's part of the changing landscape and the uncertainty everyone (including the DOS office) has about what relationships are what." but the important point is that the seller is willing to pay the broker 3% (or 2,5% or whatever) and not letting them co-broke the listing. generally, it means the buyer is de facto "representing themselves" as broker (although not licensed, so not totally kosher, so it wouldn't get CALLED that). The point is that whatever you want to call it, it ends up being a listing which looks, smells, feels like a "secret stash" unit.

sorry, the SELLER is de facto representing themselves.

ACH, I am coming very late to this discussion, but I saw what you wrote about my agents that "were so busy shuttling people thru that I found it very hard to talk to any of them, not to mention getting any kind of useful information out of them."

First of all, my apologies about that. It's hard to gauge how many people we're going to have at each open house and sometimes we get a bit overwhelmed with visitors! But I'm always available for private showings during the week or you can call me at 646-319-6606 with any questions you have.

I don't know if you're still looking, but if you are, we have a bunch of new listings... so come on back!

Sandy
sedry@citi-habitats.com

Sedry, thanks for your comments.
I have been seeing a lot of open houses since I made those first, relatively newbie-comments and meanwhile feel much more comfortable with the whole process.
And, yes I have been seeing some new apts. in the buildings that you are selling, and also finally got to talk a bit more to some of your brokers ;-)
I am waiting for 852 Riverside Dr to come online, so to speak, and meanwhile will keep biding my time....

*oops, sorry meant 812 RSD.

ACH--

As you can tell, I don't check this very often :)

812 RSD came online a couple of years ago... we were out of available units for awhile. BUT I do have one listed there now (Unit 36 a standard 2-bed) and I will be adding another 2 bed + Living Room and Dining Room in the next couple of weeks.

If that's the size you're looking for, let me know and I will try to get you in there as soon as it is available.

Have a great day ...

Sandy

The Glengarry leads?