Value of a 2nd Bath

very curious about apartments over 1,000 sq ft with only one bath. other than a loft, i have never come across one. can you post a link, perhaps to one you've already chosen not to pursue?

Don't know how you'd find two to compare with everything else equal, but the averages are interesting. For Manhattan co-ops, the median asking price for a 2/2 is $1.1M. For a 2/1, it's $467M. So overall, it's a whole different market.

yes but...

I would assume that the square footage is considerably different.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/466004-coop-200-west-54th-street-times-square-new-york

here's an example. i didn't look to make sure the sf was roughly correct. there are a number of prewar buildings that have 2/1s of a relatively reasonable size.

notice the 30% drop in price here.

212, If there are two bedrooms in that price range, see if you can find similar units (two batth vs one bath) and subtract out the difference. That's really the best way.

in that square footage i thnk you are more likely to come across 1.5 bath however..

more lies.

"How much more would one/you pay for the 2nd bath in 2BR units (again, holding everything else constant)? Your input would be much appreciated. Thanks."

don't know about pricing, but the pool of buyers will be reduced without a 2nd bathroom. i wouldn't buy into one with only 1 bathroom as i rent one with 2 (and got used to having 2). when you have kids another bathroom is a big plus imho.

if the unit has a washing machine, then there is probably a drain. The area could be converted to a second bath. Of course you lose the washer/dryer...

NWT: Thanks for the quick reply. This is very useful, although my guess is that the price differentials may reflect differences in the types of bldgs... Surprisingly, though, there are many 2BR units that are fundamentally similar w/ the exception of the bath configurations.

CC: Really? I have seen SOOOOO many (in Manhattan below 96th). Since I don't wish to post the links to the units I am looking at, I ran a quick search here--w/ 1000+ SF 2BR, 1BA, and a whole bunch came up. Here are some, but, again, there are many, many others which I am too lazy to post:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/451697-condo-155-west-71st-street-lincoln-square-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/436529-condo-380-rector-place-battery-park-city-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/320545-coop-136-west-24th-street-chelsea-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/351716-coop-60-gramercy-park-north-gramercy-park-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/444246-coop-500-east-83rd-street-yorkville-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/326583-coop-250-west-24th-street-chelsea-new-york

interesting. a number of these don't have floorplans or don't have dimensions on the floorplan. would urge you to be very wary of the stated square footage.

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. This is helpful.

admin, that's a great point. Aside from the pricing alone, we are talking about an entirely different buyer pools! This is so true.

Riversider, sure, if I were to assume that the unit prices are "absolute and accurate," it would make sense to simply perform (price of 2BR/2BA)-(price of 2BR/1BA). However, many sellers are unrealistic, and I just wanted to find out what people here thought about the "value added" for the 2nd bath--without having to construct one (which may or may not be allowed)!

Finally, columbiacounty, actually, the SF has not been all that different between 2BR/2BA and 2BR/1BA units I have seen in this range, which prompted me to ask this question.

>>if the unit has a washing machine, then there is probably a drain. The area could be converted to a second bath. Of course you lose the washer/dryer...<<

A drain and a sewer line are two different animals...

Re: the two bathroom issue, I'd definitely go for the unit with 2 full bathrooms, especially if you're married, have kids, or are living with another person. Whoever said the key to a happy marriage is two bathrooms was right on the money.

I've seen 2/1s also, in buildings where the other two-bedrooms have two baths, but can't think which off-hand. Sort of the step-child twos, where the architect just couldn't finagle the space. Generally, though, you build for a specific market and avoid that kind of mix.

I'd check out that 380 Rector 15J story. 9J-24J are all 2/2, so I suspect the listing broker made an error. They're also 1014 square feet, measured from the inside, so they must've thrown in 200 to compare with newer condos, where measurements are usually taken from the outside.

You also have to account for where that bath is. An older classic six, for instance, may have only one bath for the two main bedrooms. There's a big dollar hit there, too, but I can't quantify it.

I would only focus on the units with 2 baths as they will certainly have more interest then those without. I don't know if you can put a solid dollar amount to it however a two bedroom 1bath is crtainly less desiable, will get less traffic and thus a lower price.

Check out this apartment at www.235east57th.com

Wes Stanton
www.thestantongroupnyc.com

when we were looking in that same size/price range a few years ago (so prob. similar pricing environment to now), a 1.5 bath was generically a $50k discount to the 2 bath, and a 1 bath was almost 200k cheaper. 2 bed/1 bath, at the end of the day is functionally a big 1 bed + guest bed/office/dining room, rather than a place for everyday living of parents + children.

I actually agree with ccounty on this one. Did you actually see all this apts or are you simply going by SF by what is listed?

I was too lazy to check out every single one you posted, but the ones I did see (that actually had floorplans) look like 1BR's sneakily converted to 2BR's, hence the 1 bathroom. If they didn't have a floorplan, you can probably assume they converted it as well.

I would call the 2BR/1BA a junior four and the 2BR/2BA a small 2BR.

the one i listed earlier is a real 2/1, not a jr.4. there are some buildings that have these sorts of layouts.

the following sold, but is another example:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/230235-coop-170-second-avenue-east-village-new-york

See where they converted to two baths in the same line (http://www.corcoran.com/property/FloorPlan.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=856838) a few years ago, by changing the opening to the one bath's separate stall shower and adding a toilet and little sink. Can't tell what $ were added, though.

If that floorplan is accurate, how could you use the toilet?

Thanks, everyone, for the continued input. I am getting the general trend, and it's been really informative.

I am a bit surprised, though, to see some people finding 2BR/1BA to be unusual; I'd hate to differ, but the majority of units I have personally seen have been 2/1 or maybe 2/1.5, rather than 2/2. I however agree that 2BR/2BA would be the norm: (1) among new constructions and in the super-luxury market; and (2) in the Boroughs and NJ.

very interesting to see these places. thanks.

once again, be wary of stated sq footage. take a look at the floorplan that the broker posted. he is claiming 1,400 sq ft for a place that seems to be around 1,000 sq ft.

I'm personally not saying that legit 2BR/1BA units don't exist. I'm saying there are a LOT of large 1BR posing as 2BR/1BA... and you can easily tell by looking at a floorplan (or the lack of a floorplan).

If you're ok with that, cool, but you really really have to take each one on a case by case basis and go check it out in person.

As for 2 full baths, yeah it may not make sense for a small 2BR. 1BA or 1.5BA could be perfectly reasonable, but it really clues you in that the apt is on the small end.

would nitpick on one item. a lot of pre-war 2 brs have a second bath with a shower only but its not a maid's room kind of bath but a real one absent a tub. that seems fine to me assuming that its a full size stall shower and there is a full bath tub in the other bathroom.

NWT, thanks for that link. i DO care about the second bath, although i agree with cc, a decent 3/4 bath would be fine for our needs as long as the other bathroom had a tub.

something in me keeps saying these units are too small, yet they're almost the same size as the one where i currently am digging my heels in. i really love the location. interesting.

1000 square feet makes a fantastic one bedroom. AS a two bedroom it might feel a little cramped. Have you considered Washington or Morning side heights?

now you are into fantasy land? stick with youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

you are making yourself look ridiculous.

Sorry cc if you want to argue you'll have to pay me another $5.00. Otherwise please go home.

i am home, you sick dog.

rs, how's your extell glass box apartment? of course prices for new construction condos will be, adjusted for deflation, right back at your purchase price by 2011, so you have nothing to worry about. unless of course you listen to your own prognostications for the economy.

rs, how's your extell glass box apartment?
compared to a housing project?

lets stick to your problem.

1. lying
2. lying
3. lying
4. ridiculous posting of youtube
5. nonsense
6. blather
7. more lying

rs, good on you. lowering yourself to the battle.

btw, tons of good hard cash saved during those years living in a "housing project."

is your glass box getting a bit hot?

OK, here's a building with both 2/2 and 2/1 lines: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/175-willoughby-street-brooklyn

The 2/2 is the B line: http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/6/7184506.gif
The 2/1 is the A line: http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/49/7065749.gif

They seem to be pretty much the same size, and there're plenty of sales in the last several years to see how the money tended to differ.

nwt, that's so odd. the 2/1 is a much better layout.

the third link in nyc212's triple example is perhaps the best example i can think of : Chelsea Gardens.

Check out 5EW http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/36/3546336.gif which sold for $1,367,500 03/21/2006 ; 6EW sold $1,340,000 02/28/2007

1GW on the market for $999,000 http://www.dgneary.com/BrokerWebsite3/Code/show_fp.asp?fpphoto=157079_fp1.jpg&lid=163540
2GW sold $1,225,000 07/27/2007 ; 5GW sold $1,080,000 07/12/2007

(I can't explain the 2GW outlier; it did show exceptionally well, but I don't think enough to justify the price).

In any case, I think the 2br/1 bths are about as close as you are going to get to a 2br/2 bth in the same building (although, yes, there is a SF difference as well in that the BR's and dining are a bit bigger in the 2 bath unit.)