The Harmony - 61 West 62nd Street

I answered your other post. I owned there. Happy to give you a rundown if you give an email address.

checkers?

My grandparents lived their very happily for a long time.

oops, I'm tired. I meant lived "there" obviously.

I will say this in a public forum. Building had (about 5 years ago) a very large # of retired, older folk.

nyc10023--My email address is Morg23@gmail.com Looking forward to hearing from you.

Does anyone know why this bldg's maintenance is so high even if they have four floors commercial lease?

I think it's a coop with condo rules (condoop). So the maint includes taxes

That's not the answer as to why mtce is high, given the commercial leases. The co-op was/is paying down the mtge, so the mtce includes the principal payments. In a few years, the mtge should (?) be paid off. You should be able to get a clearer picture of the building's finances from a listing broker.

I just sold one bedroom coop apartment and started to look for two bedroom coop. How much mtc is tax deductible right now? Why is the coop trying to pay off the mtge? If the coop pays off the mtge then there will be no more tax deduction on mtge, right? Then, do you think the mtce will go down after paying off the mtge? ...don't understand why the coop wanna pay off the mtge... doesn't make sense to me...

We looked at this building years ago and passed on it for some financial reason which I can't recall now - I suspect there was an underlying issue impacting the monthly charges (and I don't think it was paying down the mortgage - why would the building do this with rates at historic lows?!?). It also had some weird house rules - food deliveries weren't allowed upstairs so the doorman had to bring your delivery up and then bring your money down to the guy ... which is fine except when you don't have exact change. It also often smelled like Rosa Mexicana.

To pay 50% of take home pay for rent= good
to pay 25* rent to buy = gooder
to pay 25* rent to buy and have a huge mortgage on the entire condo in perpetuity= godly!

May the god of cash flow smack you in the azz.

It is a good thing that a co-op is paying off its mortgage. It will lead to lower maintenance in the future, and the commercial income might end up subsidizing the maintenance in the long run, once the mtge is paid off. The portion of the mtce that is used to pay taxes will be tax-deductible.

Tax-deductible is not a good thing - you understand that you are paying X and getting only a fraction of it back at tax time if "X" is deductible against income? Far better not to be paying X at all. I hope you are not of the mindset that maximizing mtge payments per month is good because you get to deduct "more" of it.

Got it. I know you lived here. How do you see the building financial in general and the coop board? Do you think the Harmony will lower the maintenance when they paying off the mortgage or keep it for capital imporvement if any? Also, I will really appreciate your insight about the building. Thanks.

I haven't lived there in a few years and I'm not privy to current going-ons. I have no idea what they'll do when the mtge is paid off (but you can look yourself on ACRIS to see what the exact current loan terms are).

It's true (and annoying) about the food delivery. I used to go down there myself to make sure the delivery people didn't get stiffed on their tips. They made a mistake in using easily-scratchable wood veneers on the elevators when they renovated, and they should also have installed revolving doors. Right now, when the door opens in the winter, there's a blast of cold air into the lobby.

Please ask the broker about the specific financial situation, if you have to make a contingent offer upon full inspection of financials, it is definitely worth it to do so.

Contingent on financials is good idea. Thanks for your insight.

http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/ViewImage?Doc_ID=2003020301652003

This is the latest mortgage recorded - 17.26m left on the mtge - mtge principal is being paid, but mtge
won't be paid off for a looong time.

Why is the building carry such a large mortgage? Isn't commercial lease contributing on paying mtge at all? How was the maintenance assessment when you lived there? Was it reasonable?

There's always something to pay for, so to anticipate main going down would be naive. External building repairs are costly and can be expected every 5-10 years.

The original mtge was for over 22m, and the sponsor took out the mtge on the building to maximize profit when they converted. They negotiated a principal reduction due to sponsor default (which is how the co-op owns the commercial space), and they paid off approx. 3m in the 10ish years prior to the '03 mtge.

Aifam: take a look at the rent roll from the ACRIS doc. The sports club & Rosa pay a lot of $$, arguably sufficient to pay for bldg repairs. But the building has still a ways to go before paying off the mtge.

interesting thx. I was highly considering buying a sponsor unit here years ago, but I didn't because of transfer taxes or something I can't recall. Didn't get into the financials though.

If you look at page 57ish of the doc., it lists the mtce as of '03. The thing to ask the broker is why has the mtce gone from 1400ish for 7G (on the mkt now) to almost 2k, give what we know about the mtge. Reading quickly at the note, it looks like the co-op is paying 38kish towards principal monthly and 8.5% on the declining principal balance. Taxes, of course, have increased over 7 years, but given the abolition of the 80/20 rule and the decreasing mtge interest payment, should mtce have inc. by 25%?

That's the question to ask the broker and to have answered before proceeding any further.

By my calculations, the 10-year mtge will be up in less than 3 years, and another 4.5mish of mtge paid off -> should be less than 13m now. But then I thought the mtge would have been paid off by 2010...

So if you have to choose between the Harmony and the Toulaine, which has the better financials or value?

Some have said mtce should go down but it is still very high.

Anyone know how the financials are nowadays?