selling in December

worry about price and condition. those are the items you can control. very rough time of year; maybe someone wants to buy themselves a christmas present. hope for mild weather.

Doesn't that just piss you off columbiacounty? Someone selling in December. All those holidays. Christmas music. Presents. Egg Nog. The anger must be eating you up.

nope.

Weive been looking to buy an apartment since the spring and I was hoping that there would be new places to see between now and New Years and that it wouldn't just be a dead time. People will definitely look during the first two weeknds in December.

managing expectations... hope for the best, expect the worst.
i had my place on the market last year and thought dec would be out..
we had two open houses and some lookers, the good news is the lookers are generally more serious then those on a sunny october day.
if you have a great broker that is creative in getting your place noticed you might get lucky!!!
if you are looking for a broker let me know, mine was great. very outside the box.
best of luck in your new place and in selling your existing!!

Abcdefg, I am worried about you. Financial experts everywhere will tell you that you do not, DO NOT buy before you have sold--unless, of course, you are wealthy enough that paying for two residences for 6 months is no big deal to you. In which case, how long it takes to sell is just interesting cocktail party talk, not a matter of your financial survival.

December is slow, and January is slower. When I'm shopping for an investment property I head out in January and February, when sellers are desperate and buyers are few. Great for buyers! Not so great for sellers.

Go into Street Easy and take a look at the Days on Market (DOM) of apartments like yours over the last couple of months. Assume that the average of DOM applies to your unit as well. Then add two-four weeks for the holidays. That's how long you're going to be sitting with it, most likely.

If you are hell-bent on buying before selling, and you aren't able to lose 6 months of carrying costs comfortably, then you can investigate bridge loans or other financing. See if any of your credit cards are giving 6 months of cash advance money for 0% interest (mine are). They charge 3-4% in fees, though. Line up contingency financing in case you need it and figure out how much it's going to cost you in interest to keep both places for up to 6 months.

Final thing: I believe in For Sale by Owner for many people. For many people it's great. Me, for instance. However, I predict you are going to need a hard-working broker at full 6% commission to sell this thing in 90 days or less for anything more than a fire sale price.

{Manhattan real estate agent. AKA wet blanket.}

We have been looking for a place for a while, there doesn't seem to be much on the market right now. If you have a nice place and it is priced good there is no reason to think it wouldn't sell quickly. I am sure we aren't the only people who are actively looking and trying to find a place right now.

I'm looking to buy, too, and at this rater will probably still be looking in December. Right now all I'm seeing is (still) delusional pricing for not-entirely-acceptable apartments. Price your place right and it will find a buyer. Good luck.

I hope your contract has a contingency about selling your place

It will be very difficult for you. If you do not sell with-in a 3 week period, you maybe stuck for months. As you can see there are some buyers there, but not many. They will look at your place first and may make low ball offers knowing that you'll be stuck for the next 3-6 months on the market.

interesting.

i actually think that its encouraging that three posters responded favorably. now, you just have to make sure that you are realistic about the price.

Thanks for all the imput. I'm glad to know at least a few people will be looking in December! If only a few...

We do have a contingency in our contract, so if we don't sell we won't be in financial panic -- but we might lose the new place which would be a shame. Fluter, are people really using credit cards to finance homes these days? Yowsa. That's waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything I'd consider or advise.

I'm interested in your comments about using a broker. I haven't before and have sold easily. But those were different times and we've been going back and forth about this. My instinct is to go without and keep the price as low as possible. I'm making up these numbers, but say I wanted 785. I might price at 850 and hope to settle at 785. If I need to build another 6% in there, I'm at 900k -- not too far off peak numbers. I dont think that's the best way to sell these days. When the market was strong, I liked to keep that 6% for myself. Now I think I need to pass it on to the buyer. Especially when I want to sell quickly.

Thanks again for all the comments.

whether or not you use a broker depends completely on your willingness and ability to market the apartment. and remember you not using a broker may only save 3%. here's a crazy idea....price it as low as you are prepared to go; if it doesn't sell, it sounds like you're going to walk away from the other deal anyway...so what's to lose?

Columbia, I've thought about that. But do you think anyone is willing to pay ask these days? I used to like to price substantially under market, and get a bidding war. High price and quick sale! What's not to love? But these days I don't think I can count on more than one offer. ANd I think everyone expects to initially offer 10-15% below ask.

Maybe I'm wrong. I would like nothing more than to price as low as possible and sell it in a weekend. It's true that I don't have much to lose -- except my dream home! I really really want to sell this place in December.

But what do you mean about the 3%? You mean if I allow buyers brokers but market on my own? I kind of thing that's the worst of both worlds. But maybe I'm wrong about that too. (You know what I really hate about that tho is seeing your own apartment out there on sites at 3% higher than your asking. Grrr)

Price it low. We have seen multiple bids on properties that are priced "correctly". When you price near or above market, people just move on and don't even bother looking.

I once sold an apartment in a lousy market on christmas eve, buyer had sold their apartment and had to move and their deal to buy had fallen thru (I was the only broker who was reachable and had something where the sellers would let me in) you never know although not as busy during the holidays buyers who are looking are real good luck

We're selling and have seen a very sudden influx of interest even though nothing has changed on our end. We've shown the place 7 times in the last 2 days! I think there are more people looking and there are some out of towners who may actually look during the holiday season but price is key. If you are priced too high, you will not make it on time and lose your other deal and unfortunately you don't have the flexibility to try different price levels. You will however have to price in negotiability as I really don't think anyone will pay you ask in this market no matter how good your price is. I think for reasonably priced apartments, people are settling at somewhere around 6-7% below ask.

i think it depends on what price bracket you're in and whether or not you really priced it correctly and have solid recent comps to support it. also, as discussed both on this thread and many others, drawbacks (no light, ground floor, etc.) have to be discounted as well as overall condition. i think there has been significant documented evidence on various threads as reported by profplum above of well priced apartments going quickly at ask.

As a buyer, I'm going to give you some advice. Don't price it as low as you're prepared to go. I would never even dream of paying ask at this point & if it's priced TOO low, I'd wonder wtf is wrong with it!

Having sort of stopped looking thru the late summer and early fall (I have looked at 3 apartments), for sure I will be still looking come December. I think there are serious buyers out there who are looking for a home (not an investment) and a fair value (not a steal).

A lot of people start looking when they find out what their bonus is going to be, not when they actually get the check. So, if bonuses are as big as are being predicted, you may find a decent number of people looking in December. That said, what I've found happen several times in the past 10 years is that the people who do "get a jump on" the market by being early sellers also lose "the jump in the market" which often occurs in January and February from people buying again after a 6 months or so hiatus in the July to December period.

Equities will be up so much this year after so much down through March.

abcdefg, I was writing about the fact that if you need the money to sustain the monthly charges for two apartments, then you could tap into cash advances from your credit cards to do so. I didn't say you should do this to actually buy an apartment.

Investors have been using credit cards for short-term loans for years. It's a very smart move if you have the kind of credit scores and income that cause banks to issue these deals to you.

But I digress...you're in for quite an education if you go forward with the purchase.

{Manhattan real estate agent.}

No one has a crystal ball and anything is possible. And why am I such a Pollyanna? Because we sold our apartment last December -- the buyer saw it mid-month, came back the next day, made the offer on day three and the contract was signed on Christmas Eve. And this was December 2008, when the world was coming to an end.

Price your apartment fairly, as you would any other time of the year, and based on comps. Stage it to be as pretty as possible. And hire an experienced broker to shine a big light on you -- there are always serious buyers out there and one of them will find you.

And good luck!

I'll be honest Fluter, your attitude ("you've got a lot to learn") is the reason I am so hesitant about going with a broker. How is it that all broker advice is tinged with some weird insult? I laugh but I'm serious! We have a sales contingency in our contract so I really can't see how we can get into trouble. BTW, a broker told us such a contingency isn;t done anymore so we should forget it. Luckily, we didn't listen to him and we were able to go to this owner directly. We worked the whole thing out in 20 minutes - lawyers took a lot longer to write it up. About credit cards, I guess I'm lucky but I've never had to finance anything on a credit card ever. I've the "credit score and the income" to pay cash or get a mortgage (this will be my 4th mortgage in almost 20 years... gah).

But anyway! I appreciate all the comments. It makes me a little hopeful that people will be out in December.

abcdefg, i always try to find a place in nov-dec. but i'll confess it's because i find it's a great time for deals.

good luck.

>But do you think anyone is willing to pay ask these days?

I am, if the asking price is sane.

This may be why a "serious,realistic seller" pricing fairly would still have a hard time in this market as in Mack123's post above "As a buyer, I'm going to give you some advice. Don't price it as low as you're prepared to go. I would never even dream of paying ask at this point & if it's priced TOO low, I'd wonder wtf is wrong with it! "
Damned if you do, and damned if you don't

if you do go the broker route i worked with a great one (after a horrible one). let me know if you would like the name

abcdefg - I vote you list with fluter, because...

"I am worried about you"

"I believe in For Sale by Owner for many people. For many people it's great. Me, for instance. However, I predict you are going to need a hard-working broker at full 6% commission to sell this thing in 90 days or less for anything more than a fire sale price."

"You're in for quite an education."

Are you buying in manhattan? I didnt realize anyone in manhattan would sign a contract with a contingency to sell your place first?????????

We're buying and selling in Brooklyn.

I think the sellers are okay with the contingency bcs they figure the worst thing that happens is they lose Nov/Dec and nobody buys then anyway, right? (!!) Also, we're buying a building and they have month-to-month tenants they are getting rid of. So come mid-January, if we didn't get it done, they can start fresh and with a vacant place. The current residents aren't doing them any favors. That's how we presented it and they bit. We'll see.

Yeah Murray, the pricing thing is hard to figure out. I think I have to price low and expect to go a little lower. And if I don't get anything close to what I need than so be it.

"Are you buying in manhattan? I didnt realize anyone in manhattan would sign a contract with a contingency to sell your place first?????????"

something else you learned from brokers? grow up.

i had such a contingency in a contract. but it was quite a few years ago.

so be it. one of my favorite phrases.

abcdefg: I generally advise against going to market in November/December as activity is definitely down during those months. Just look at the data for contracts signed during those months.
To me the risk is greater than the reward as your property can sit for those months and then (yes that dreaded RE cliche) get stale. I don't agree that January is slow, I feel like that is when things start to get going again, new year etc...

I am a broker (with 20 years experience) that left the pack to try out some new ideas, after almost two years at it, they are working out quite well.

I am just starting to roll out something I call "FSBO with Benefits", which is a hybrid broker/owner managed sale. It gives you exposure to the entire brokerage community at 2.5% commission which maximizes your chances of selling along with substantial savings. We also will help with pricing, photography, negotiations with buyers/brokers, provide set up sheets, a web ad on our site, list in OLR and StreetEasy, one NY Times web ad and one eblast listing card to over 8000 brokers. We are also available for unlimited phone and email support. In short we do everything but show the apartment, but can also provide a shower at a fixed hourly rate for any scheduled open houses. These services are provided for a flat fee( approx. $1000).

I am excited to be offering this menu of services customized to each individual buyers needs and desires. I am always available to speak with anyone either over coffee, email or phone. I have spoken to quite a few SE folk and it has been a pleasure to meet so many intelligent, nice people.
keith at theburkhardtgroup dot com

I'm sorry I didn't mean to sound so condescending. Part of my trip is I am meeting regularly with desperate sellers and I get emotional about it.

What happens sometimes is that people made a couple of slightly bad decisions, they took a couple of minor extra risks, and now their life has changed, the market has changed, and they have their backs against the wall. And they want me to work some magic to save their asses (one guy actually said that to me the other day).

I didn't know you got that contingency in your contract, good for you. That's pretty damn rare methinks. Very very smart for you. For the sellers, not so much.

So, the worst that happens to you is you miss out on buying something you like. That's nothing compared to losing your shirt.

{Manhattan real estate agent.}

November/December/January are always tricky months to sell!! I sold my apartment last year during those months with an amazing broker. Brad Malow at Charles Rutenberg Realty. I had the same concerns, and he was able to help me price right and amazingly produce great turnouts. With my personal stress around the holidays, it helped to have someone doing the work for me.

and no doubt because of this great broker, you got a premium price that you could never have gotten any other way....he more than paid for himself?

Not a good time to sell but it looks like you know that and you have no choice, so why don't you start asap and if you use a broker make sure that he's one who return phone calls, really wants to co-broke and invests $$$ in your listing for a good 6%. Consider also small companies (I work for a very small company and I can assure you that independent brokers can do a very good job..)

abc - an update?

ajdoc,
OUCH!!!!!

Brad, take it easy!!!

...you almost broke my bullshit detector...my needle only goes to red...this is deep purple.

you could hurt someone.

Falcogold,

Hurt someone? I do the healing! ;) In terms of the post, Brad happens to now be a close friend of mine and was really helpful and flexible in working with me and my crazy schedule. I just wanted to repay the favor!